Finding an exhaust leak

[USSEnterprise]

My car has a relatively bad exhaust leak. Not enough to kill you, but the smell inside the car is pretty noticeable. I doubt it would pass inspection. Anyone know of a means of locating the leak? I was thinking of running compressed air through the system, with all the pipes covered in liquid soap, but I don't know how I would go about getting the compressed air into the system. Any ideas? Any other methods?

[FrizzleFried]

You can usually hear exhaust leaks when the engine is running.  Start her up,  go under the car and start looking/listening.

[USSEnterprise]

problem is, for as long as I have had the car, it has had the exhaust leak, and I have no other 850 to compare the sound to.

[TOK]

Instead of liquid soap and compressed air, just use some light spray oil and let the car run. It will bubble at the leak. If you're smelling it strongly inside while driving, my guess would be the exhaust manifold gasket right at the head. Leaks at the collector below are in the airflow and tend to just blow past without entering the cabin.

[USSEnterprise]

Instead of liquid soap and compressed air, just use some light spray oil and let the car run. It will bubble at the leak. If you're smelling it strongly inside while driving, my guess would be the exhaust manifold gasket right at the head. Leaks at the collector below are in the airflow and tend to just blow past without entering the cabin.

Spray oil, as in something like WD-40?
I really hope its not the exhaust manifold gasket. That would be so much friggin work. I couldn't do it myself. $

[TOK]

WD-40 might work (it does work for finding vacuum leaks), but you might need something just a bit more viscous for an exhaust leak. You'll see it bubble!

[boykster]

I second the notion that if you're smelling it in the car, its probably close to if not the manifold.  Anything under the car you would only smell at idle sitting at a stop sign, but if you smell it in motion, its definately forward of the passenger cabin.

 

[USSEnterprise]

makes sense. Looks like I am also going to need front struts and a knock sensor to pass inspection in May.
 

[Dustin Mustangs]

Sounds like it's a pretty major leak so you should be able to see signs of it.  Look for black stains on anything close to the exhaust.   I had a leaky exhaust manifold gasket on my Z28 (didn't smell up the cabin too bad, but the noise was driving me batty) and it left black soot all over the neihboring parts and the firewall right by where it was leaking.  And like the others said, if you smell it inside the car it is likely happening under the hood.  Start at the cylinder head and work your way downstream.

Oh, and certainly don't forget the most important step anytime your working on a car; have plenty of cold ones on hand!

 

[Thenasty]

have plenty of cold ones on hand!

 

oh yea, most important things. You be surprise also how much/many extra parts left over 


Anyway, if its a LEAK it will drive you nuts. Maybe the smell you're smelling (hope its not me), it might be a small tiny droplings of gas. My minivan has this tiny droplings right on the gas tank. I think there was a rubber piece on there that crack, and it stunk like hell.
Finding a exhaust leak on WINTER TIME (COLD DAYS) is easy.

[paigeoliver]

I'd just have the shop fix it. I have had tons of exhaust leaks repaired on vehicles. It has never been very expensive.

Oddly enough though, I have never bought a muffler.

[USSEnterprise]

that also makes sense, since the hot exhaust condenses in the cold air. Too bad we have springtime weather here.

This is nuts. Inspection is in May, and also needs front struts, and emissions work, in addition to the leak (nasty smell, hopefully just the knock sensor). Plus, I've got an error code telling me the turbo boost pressure is too high. Might need a new boost controller while I'm at it.  It looks like another delay for the MAME cab until I can get this all repaired. Too much to do, not enough money...

I'd just have the shop fix it. I have had tons of exhaust leaks repaired on vehicles. It has never been very expensive.

I'm guessing you've not had work done on a european car before. Everything is more expensive.

[paigeoliver]

Correct, all my cars have been american or Japanese.

[USSEnterprise]

I can probably find the leak myself. I need to remove a heat shield to get to the exhaust manifold to check it for leaks. Also need to check a vacuum connector on the turbocharger, which has nothing connected to it. I do need to do vacuum lines on it at some point anyway.

[DrewKaree]

I'd just have the shop fix it. I have had tons of exhaust leaks repaired on vehicles. It has never been very expensive.

I'm guessing you've not had work done on a european car before. Everything is more expensive.

I'm guessing you've not had work done at a dedicated muffler shop.  Not Car-X, a DEDICATED muffler shop.  Titled something like "Jim's Muffler Shop".  It may also be "Jim's Muffler & Radiator Shop" or something equally as classy.  Japanese cars can and often are JUST as expensive as European cars, and a "Jim's Muffler Shop" replaced the ENTIRE set of pipes from the manifold to the ass end on my CRX for $50 (minus the muffler - I had that, but couldn't remove any of the pipes, which is why I was at "Jim's Muffler Shop").

Try to listen to the advice being given to you before you dismiss it out of hand because you've got a "European" car.  You've got a mind-block on much good advice given to you here for no reason other than that it seems like you're stubborn.  Paige gave you good advice that you couldn't POSSIBLY have checked out in the 2 minutes before you responded.  Take it, and call around to some muffler shops, unless wasting half an hour on the phone is more a waste of your time than us responding to give you advice.

[Zakk]

My car has a relatively bad exhaust leak. Not enough to kill you, but the smell inside the car is pretty noticeable. I doubt it would pass inspection. Anyone know of a means of locating the leak? I was thinking of running compressed air through the system, with all the pipes covered in liquid soap, but I don't know how I would go about getting the compressed air into the system. Any ideas? Any other methods?

My suggestion is that you take the bottle of soap, and instead of using it on the pipes, use it on yourself, and see if that takes care of the smell in the car.  If so, you've just saved yourself a hefty fee!

[USSEnterprise]

I'm not dismissing your advice. When tomorrow comes, I'll give a call up to the Vovo Clinic and get their pricing. They service everything, relatively cheap, but relatively cheap is still expensive for me. Maybe I'll give Midas a call too. Here's the (probable) difference though, between your CRX and my 850: The catalytic converter. If you actually had everything replaced between the Exhaust Manifold and the Muffler for $50,  you don't have one. Such a thing tacks on at least another $100 in parts alone.

[DrewKaree]

"Jim's Muffler Shop". 

Not "Volvo Repair Clinic".

"Jim's Muffler Shop".

Car-X = Midas = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.  And THEN some.

Midas is a crap place to get a muffler done.

"Jim's Muffler Shop".  Maybe "Bob's". 

Here's what you need to do.  Grab your Yellow Pages.  Page through it until you find the "Mufflers" page.  Take a sharpie marker.  Black out EVERY dealer, Midas or Car-X in there.  You should now see a list of "Jim's Muffler Shop"s.  Maybe "Barney's Muffler & Radiator".

They have a machine that does nothing but bend tubing.  They will have enormous amounts of tubing in different diameters.  That same machine will enlarge the ends of said tubing to fit your fittings and/or convertor and/or muffler.  They simply need to take a calipers to your tubing to figure out which one to use, if they even need to do THAT.  The entire process for "Bill's Muffler & Radiator Shop" should take less than half an hour.  You're mistaken about my not having a catalytic convertor.  They will simply remove it and reuse it, as they did in my case.  Unless the problem is actually WITH your catalytic convertor, they can reuse that, and SHOULD reuse that.

Midas PURPOSEFULLY takes channel locks to people's pipes and shows them "see how it's weak and flimsy here?  That needs replacing.  We can do that for eleventy brazillion dollars.  We also need to charge you an outrageous amount for every fitting that we deem to need replacing, which means every fitting in your system".  Midas and places like them, such as Car-X, are TheRapists for your car.

If it's got Volvo IN THE NAME of the place, there's no reason to believe that they won't overcharge you, that's why "Jim's Muffler Shop" is the place to go.  This ISN'T a "European car" thing.  It's a "you need exhaust TUBING replaced" thing.  Tubing isn't ordered or formed to European standards, it's simply tubing.  THAT'S why "Sammy's Muffler and/or Radiator Shop" will do this for what you should find to be far cheaper than you thought possible.  They can do this because 1) that's ALL they do, so they're better at it than even a Volvo place, since you're just replacing the TUBING, and 2) since they have a machine that can make a pipe bend to whatever angle/dimension they want it to, they don't get PRE-FORMED tubes, which is why the Volvo dealer or any other place will be MORE expensive than them, since that machine is thousands of dollars, and simply isn't worth the time for the Volvo dealer to deal with, or to let you know they have it when they can charge you exorbitant amounts because they have "Volvo" in the name of their shop.

"Kenny's Muffler Shop" is all about speed and service, which means you'll tell others, meaning their cheap prices and speed of service will be told to others, with no advertising on their part.  Look at me, I don't even KNOW "Bocephus' Muffler Shop", but what I'm confident of is that they'll do it quicker and cheaper than anyone else, because that's ALL they do.

Done.

[USSEnterprise]

Fine, when I get home from my road test today, I'll call around.

[USSEnterprise]

The three "muffler shops" I called in the phone book all quoted me around $75 an hour, including diagnostic time, plus parts. Meineke will do free diagnostic work.

[DrewKaree]

"I'm not sure where it's leaking from and I don't want to spend a lot of money replacing the whole thing.  How much would you charge to find and fix the area that leaks?"

----------------------------------------

My version when I called?  (yeah, 5 minutes, and I figured I'd hear something like that)

"Billy Joe Jim Bob's Muffler Shop, wut kin ah do fer ya?"

"How much to replace the exhaust from the manifold back to the muffler, but reusing the converter & muffler on a '95 Volvo 850"

"Um....prolly about $175-200, depending on if we gotta torch off any connectors.  When can ya bring it in?"

------------------------------------------


If that's too much for you to spend to solve a crappy old exhaust that will fail more times within the year if you're trying to "save money" by only replacing and/or welding the area with the leak, then it's your fault for not taking the advice of several members who told you not to buy a "European car" right here on this very forum - the one you're COMING BACK TO ASK ADVICE FROM.

I've exhausted a virtue in this thread, I believe it's for good.

[CheffoJeffo]

You really don't have a clue, do you ?

This has to be the brazillionth time that you post asking for advice and then turn around like a barely pubescent teenager and completely disregard the advice that is given to you.

You're like Chad in reverse.

 

[USSEnterprise]

Please explain to me how I am disregarding your advice. I did call a few "Local Muffler Shops", as Drew suggested, and they all just told me somewhere in the neighborhood of $75 an hour for labor. Just labor. And if it turns out I need something like a exhaust manifold or a cat converter, the price goes up a hell of a lot more. I did end up spraying oil on a few parts of my exhaust system to check for leaks. Didn't find anything where I did check (muffler, resonator, and pipe between the two). The rest was out of reach.

As for people on here telling me not to buy it, including yourself, I'm still glad I didn't listen to you. Even though I am having to dump money into it (only $400 so far, maybe another $800 when struts, exhaust, and e-brake is done) Still comes in under the blue book value. Its more powerful than my father's 98 Maxima, it has better traction than my Mom's 4WD 4Runner, and its safer than either car. Why shouldn't I have bought it Drew?

[CheffoJeffo]

Why shouldn't I have bought it Drew?

Because it would have saved us the pain of one iteration of your continual asking "Should I buy/do this ?", which you invariably do anyway and invariably leads to your moaning about the cost of things.

I have no money for my MAME machine which doesn't fit in my basement and didn't come with free shipping!

Just get your sodding car fixed, will you ?

 

[nostrebor]

I have gleaned great satisfaction in your decision to purchase a Volvo, and the resulting discussions. It has only strengthened my opinion that years of experience working on, owning, and dealing in cars is > the determination of a youth who is always wiser than those with said experience.

As far as fixing your problem goes, please take it to a qualified Volvo Technician.

<Mr Howell> You own a Volvo. You deserve the very best in service for your fine luxury automobile. </Mr Howell>

 

[shardian]

Check for oil leaks around the turbo. Odds are you are getting oil dripping down onto the exhaust manifold, resulting in smoke getting into your ventilation system. Why do I know this? Well because I am getting smoke clouds coming out of my vents right now in mine due to the same problem. Did you check the pcv hose system like I suggested when you first got the car?

[DrewKaree]

Did you check the pcv hose system like I suggested when you first got the car?

I'ma hafta start wearing Depends around here.  I think I just wet myself from laughing too dang hard!

[USSEnterprise]

Check for oil leaks around the turbo. Odds are you are getting oil dripping down onto the exhaust manifold, resulting in smoke getting into your ventilation system. Why do I know this? Well because I am getting smoke clouds coming out of my vents right now in mine due to the same problem. Did you check the pcv hose system like I suggested when you first got the car?

Yes, and I replaced most of it with one of the FCP Groton Kits. I do have a leak  (no oil on driveway) on the turbocharger's oil line, but the car doesn't smell like burning oil.

[ChadTower]

After reading through this thread, this kid either has 48 hours a day of free time or he considers his free time absolutely freakin' worthless. 

Just to drive the tip of this point home further than these guys already have:  don't get belligerent with the people you are asking for help. 

[shardian]

Yes, and I replaced most of it with one of the FCP Groton Kits. I do have a leak  (no oil on driveway) on the turbocharger's oil line, but the car doesn't smell like burning oil.

The return line on the bottom, or the big intake hose on the side?

If it is the bottom return line, then there are $4 worth of seals you can get to fix that.

As to locating the leak, start the car on a cold morning and take a look under the car for exhaust leaks. You should be able to see them then.

[USSEnterprise]

Its the rubber hose that connects atop the turbo that's leaking.

Chad, how am I being belligerent? I'm just getting fed up with Drew and Jeffo making comments when they know not what they are talking about. Granted, I sometimes don't know what I'm talking about, but for almost every thread I post, Drew has to share his infinitesimal wisdom with me, which I really don't want to hear anymore. He's not helping.

[ChadTower]

Chad, how am I being belligerent?

See below.  I thought Drew's advice was pretty good and you clearly weren't hearing it.

I'm just getting fed up with Drew and Jeffo making comments when they know not what they are talking about.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm just getting fed up with Drew and Jeffo making comments when they know not what they are talking about.

My 22 years of car ownership and maintenance have probably resulted in me knowing a just a *smidgen* more than you in your, what is it now, 8 months ? Cocky little monkey, aren't you ? 

But that's not what I have been talking about, anyway. I've been talking about your consistently predictable, and increasingly obnoxious, behaviour.

Here is the pattern:

1. Ask question about possible course of action
2. Argue with those who provide advice
3. Do what you want anyway
4. Complain about the cost of #3
5. Put 25% of belongings up for sale on BST to raise funds to pay for #3
6. Wait 24 hours
7. Add discounts to items for sale on BST
8. Wait 24 hours
9. Add further discounts to items for sale on BST
10. Ask about free shipping

Repeat steps 1-10 each time USSE has to make a decision.

The pattern is clear and the posts are all there ... tell me where I am wrong.

Cheers.

[leapinlew]

I'm just getting fed up with Drew and Jeffo making comments when they know not what they are talking about.

My 22 years of car ownership and maintenance have probably resulted in me knowing a just a *smidgen* more than you in your, what is it now, 8 months ? Cocky little monkey, aren't you ? 

But that's not what I have been talking about, anyway. I've been talking about your consistently predictable, and increasingly obnoxious, behaviour.

Here is the pattern:

1. Ask question about possible course of action
2. Argue with those who provide advice
3. Do what you want anyway
4. Complain about the cost of #3
5. Put 25% of belongings up for sale on BST to raise funds to pay for #3
6. Wait 24 hours
7. Add discounts to items for sale on BST
8. Wait 24 hours
9. Add further discounts to items for sale on BST
10. Ask about free shipping

Repeat steps 1-10 each time USSE has to make a decision.

The pattern is clear and the posts are all there ... tell me where I am wrong.

Cheers.

waha! OMG thats funny.

[ChadTower]

Funny, when I pointed that out in Arcade Misc in a pinball thread, I was called an ---uvula--- that wouldn't cut the kid a break... after having helped him 3-4 times prior with the same results as here.

[CheffoJeffo]

Funny, when I pointed that out in Arcade Misc in a pinball thread, I was called an ---uvula--- that wouldn't cut the kid a break... after having helped him 3-4 times prior with the same results as here.

Yeah, but that was tommy (who?) ...

[ChadTower]

Good point.  Now that I think about it that was a large amount of tommy.

[nostrebor]

I sometimes don't know what I'm talking about.

 

You mostly don't know what you are talking about. But hey, hamering guys on a forum, some of which have been building and maintaining cars since you were pulling Sally's hair in 2nd grade, Makes you *extremely* intelligent. Oh and humble too.

I gave up trying to help you months ago. At least Drew is man enough to be more patient with your ignorance.

Thanks to Drew and others for reminding me that patience is a virtue.

* nostrebor shakes head and walks away from this thread frustrated

[shardian]

www.brickboard.com
www.volvospeed.com

'nuff said.

[USSEnterprise]

Already a member of volvospeed, same name as here, as well as swedespeed, but not very active there. VS has proven very helpful.

 Just sprung another relatively major leak, either oil or transmission fluid. Big spot on driveway. Also getting a burning coolant smell when I first start it up now. Well, this sucks. I'm hoping its not the head gasket.