Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!  (Read 29138 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2006, 11:06:41 am »
The ones I remember though, from way back when (late 70's) weren't digital at all and had rolling numbers like an odometer... eh well someday.
 

This is what you're looking for reptilehead...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Bowling-Shuffleboard-Game-RARE_W0QQitemZ6288421023QQihZ010QQcategoryZ20270QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2006, 04:38:09 pm »
Well...I had a busy and long weekend trying to get this thing done.  I almost pulled an "all nighter" on Saturday, I was up till 5am.

Anyway, I sanded and stained the entire frame.  It looks pretty good except every piece came up a slightly different shade.  They must have used different kinds of wood when building it, which might be why they had it stained dark red.  I was debating re-staining the whole thing darker, but it didn't look bad when it was all put together.

I decided against the chemical stripper because of my four young kids and pregnant wife...it just wasn't worth the risk.  I ended up renting an orbital floor sander from Home Depot.  After about an hour of going up and down with 20 grit paper, I stopped to take a look to see how much poly was left, and it looked like I barely made a dent in it.  So, I decided to go with plan "B"...flip the board and sand the bottom.  It was rather rough looking at the start but I figured with some heavy sanding it might just work.  After about a dozen passes with 20 grit, I gradually stepped it up 36, 60, 80, 120 and 150 grit paper.  After all the dust settled (pun intended) it actually looks really good! I can't see or feel any gouges and I went up and down with a level and it looks pretty close to perfect.  I'm quite happy with it so far.

As far as cutting it goes...I had to do it.  There didn't seem to be any feasible way to fit it as it was and be able to play with any bit of comfort.  The only other option that might have worked (which was given to me after the fact, of course) was to push the table flush to one side of the basement and always throw in one direction.  I might have actually gone in that way if I had of thought of it.  Oh well...the good news is that at least now it is regulation size.  It was 25' (which is longer than regulation) and I cut off 3' to make it exactly a 22' regulation table.  It actually looks and fits really nice.  There's about 2.5' on each side of the table.  I figured at least if I have anyone over that is used to playing at bars, it will feel the same and even more importantly, when I go out to bars I'll be able to kick some major shuffleboard butt (after a bit of practice).
The cut looks really good. I clamped my straight edge to the board to make sure I stayed perfectly straight.  The only down side was that even at my circular saw's deepest setting, it wasn't deep enough to go all the way through.  I had to flip the board to finish the cut.  When trying to flip it back (it's a 700lb board) I accidentally dropped it on my foot! :dizzy: :'( :banghead:  That really hurt and is still swollen and bruised.  I haven't gotten any x-rays yet but might go get checked out tonight if it doesn't improve.

Ok,so here's my question...I'm about to finish the table...does anyone know the pros and cons of lacquer vs. polyurethane?  I have found several posts where people used lacquer, including one from someone that used to work in a shuffleboard factory. Does lacquer self level the way poly will?  Does one last longer than the other?

Pics will be coming soon. My wife left the digital camera sitting on a park bench last week, so I'm without a camera right now.  >:(

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2006, 10:05:35 pm »

Ok,so here's my question...I'm about to finish the table...does anyone know the pros and cons of lacquer vs. polyurethane?  I have found several posts where people used lacquer, including one from someone that used to work in a shuffleboard factory. Does lacquer self level the way poly will?  Does one last longer than the other?


Anybody?  ???
« Last Edit: June 27, 2006, 10:07:36 pm by dpz147 »

dfc106

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Last login:October 17, 2007, 10:13:11 pm
    • Dave's Spot
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2006, 08:02:30 pm »
Lacquer Pros - Dries fast. Repairs and flaws in old coats can be fixed easily with more coats
Lacquer Cons - Really nasty fumes.

Poly Pros - Most durable and water resistant finish. Applies easily with a foam brush
Poly Cons - Needs to dry a couple hours between coats, which can lead to dust settling on the surface.

They both apply pretty easy, and brush strokes will work themselves out of both.  Poly is the most durable finish available.  There really isn't any reason not to use it.

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2006, 12:40:22 am »
Thanks for the information.  I picked up some poly and some foam brushes this evening.  Hopefully I can get a good 5 or 6 coates on over the next few days, allow a couple days to cure...and just in time to play on July 4th!  :)

Thanks again!

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2006, 09:04:56 am »
This is probably a dumb question but...when I sand with 220 grit paper in between coats of poly, can that be done with my orbital palm sander, or should it be done by hand?

dfc106

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Last login:October 17, 2007, 10:13:11 pm
    • Dave's Spot
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2006, 09:29:01 am »
This is probably a dumb question but...when I sand with 220 grit paper in between coats of poly, can that be done with my orbital palm sander, or should it be done by hand?

I did.  Just very lightly and on the slowest setting.  Just take a quick pass over the whole thing. 

Also when you poly, make sure you have really good light and you carefully check the whole board to be sure you didn't miss a spot.  Even if your brush goes over the whole board its still possible you have a streak where there is no poly.  It happened to me a couple times on the side of my board where the light wasn't as good.  And if it happens on one coat it will probably happen in the same place on the next coat, which makes it really tough to fix.

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2006, 09:43:55 am »
What did you do to fix it? I noticed that on my 2nd coat.  It almost seemed like there were spots where the poly wouldn't adhere to.  I would see the "dry" spot and throw some more poly there, but it almost looks like a greasy spot you're trying to put water on that just won't stay covered.  ???

dfc106

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Last login:October 17, 2007, 10:13:11 pm
    • Dave's Spot
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2006, 03:31:57 pm »
I had to give a whole board a good hard sanding with 150 then 220 grit.  Then after 3 more coats of poly it was mostly not noticable.  I never got it perfect, but I've never noticed it affect gameplay either. 

If you have a spot that poly won't adhere to, you might try wiping the area with mineral spirits and letting it dry thoroughly.  That should clean off any residue.  But be carefull.  The mineral spirits could take off some of the poly too, which might just make things worse.

DrewKaree

  • - AHOTW - Pompous revolving door windbag *YOINKER*
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9740
  • Last login:May 15, 2021, 05:31:18 pm
  • HAH! Nice one!
    • A lifelong project
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2006, 10:40:40 pm »
I dunno if I've found this too late or not, but my guess as to the reason the previous refinishing attempt was screwed up as you described it was uneven application of finish to BOTH sides.  My guess is that they built up the finish on one side (the playing side) and didn't treat both sides equally.  In order to avoid problems, you should apply equal layers to each side as you go.

As far as for why laquer, it dries harder than poly.  Most any other finish dries harder than poly.  It's a benefit of poly - it "flexes" somewhat, meaning with seasonal changes or movement, it still stays together.
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadn’t

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2006, 10:21:13 am »
I dunno if I've found this too late or not, but my guess as to the reason the previous refinishing attempt was screwed up as you described it was uneven application of finish to BOTH sides.  My guess is that they built up the finish on one side (the playing side) and didn't treat both sides equally.  In order to avoid problems, you should apply equal layers to each side as you go.

The previous owner did only build up the one side, the bottom was still unfinished from the factory.  Not that I'm doubting you Drew, because you know a lot more about this stuff than I do, but why do both sides need to be built up?  I can't imagine going through this process twice. :o  As it is now, I've only refinished one side, which used to be the bottom.

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - finished w/Pics
« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2006, 10:32:52 am »
Well, I'm finally done and it plays great!!  I went to minwax.com and searched through their forums for tips on applying poly.  One thing I found was to always brush it in one direction, not back and forth, which I did not know and didn't do on the first couple of coats.  And they also recommended that after it is all brushed on, to hold the brush vertical and run the brush tip down the length of the board.  This method did seem to help with the "dry" spots.

Here's some pics of the finished product.  It's fun (and quite satisfying) to compare the before and after shots!


dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2006, 10:34:48 am »
A couple more pics...


theCoder

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1035
  • Last login:September 20, 2010, 10:48:47 pm
  • I'll clean up my mess, Honey, when I'm done...
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2006, 08:16:00 pm »
Congratulations.  I've been following your progress since the beginning.  You've been at it for a little more than a month.  It must feel great!  I can't wait to write a similar entry in my thread.

Good job.

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2006, 11:22:16 pm »
Thanks Coder!  I've been following your project as well and I'm looking forward to the final pics.  The 4th of July was my motivation to get it done.  We were having some family over and I wanted to use that to kick things off, especially since they were the ones that helped me move this beast.

DrewKaree

  • - AHOTW - Pompous revolving door windbag *YOINKER*
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9740
  • Last login:May 15, 2021, 05:31:18 pm
  • HAH! Nice one!
    • A lifelong project
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2006, 11:49:35 pm »
I dunno if I've found this too late or not, but my guess as to the reason the previous refinishing attempt was screwed up as you described it was uneven application of finish to BOTH sides.  My guess is that they built up the finish on one side (the playing side) and didn't treat both sides equally.  In order to avoid problems, you should apply equal layers to each side as you go.

The previous owner did only build up the one side, the bottom was still unfinished from the factory.  Not that I'm doubting you Drew, because you know a lot more about this stuff than I do, but why do both sides need to be built up?  I can't imagine going through this process twice. :o  As it is now, I've only refinished one side, which used to be the bottom.

Finishes generally "stretch" a bit as they dry.  If you look at 'em, when you first put it down, the stuff is a nice liquid.  As it starts to dry, it'll take on an ever-so-slight texture, and when fully cured, it'll be fully dry, "stretched", and hardened to protect your piece.  What you're also doing in the process is introducing a liquid to one side of the wood, and not the other.  This will cause the two sides to dry at different rates.  Wood is a natural material.  It'll absorb and release moisture depending on different times of the year and the area you live in - ever have a wooden door stick, but it magically goes away after a bit?  The wood expands while absorbing moisture from the surrounding air, and contracts when drying out. 

By having an unfinished side, you're creating a situation where that side will absorb moisture at a different rate, and release it at a different rate as well.  The problem comes in when one side dries out faster than the other.  This can cause several different problems in wood.  A lot of times, it'll start with checking.  A check is just a seam that splits open due to this drying process.  This happens most often because the growth rings ALSO absorb moisture at different rates. 

Other problems besides checking are cupping (side-to-side curve of the wood), warping (end-to-end curve of the wood), and bowing or twisting (essentially a twist of the wood, kinda like the shape of a piece of licorice ).  If you want to test this for yourself, here's something you can do.  Take a piece of wood and lay it flat on a concrete floor for a week or so, then pick it up and let it dry for a bit.  It won't be as severe as you might see at the lumber yard, but you should see some slight warpage of the wood.  It's usually a good idea when you bring some wood home to let it rest somewhere for a week or so to let it acclimate to your house.  Keep it off the ground and sticker it (some small thin pieces of wood between the pieces) to let air flow around it.

There may be instances where there's no problem at all, but generally, wood moves as it goes through seasonal changes, and introducing another factor that can add to problems in the wood might not be the only reason the wood can warp, but it might be the catalyst.  Obviously there are going to be pieces of furniture that might never experience a problem, but there are also going to be those pieces that exhibit quite exaggerated results too.  The small amount of time needed to slap a coat of finish on the other side is pretty cheap insurance, I think.  I'd think you don't need to do 'em EXACTLY equal either.  I'd think 2 or 3 coats on the non-use side to seal it up should be enough, but I've just always treated both sides the same (albeit not sanding and finishing the unseen side the same).
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadn’t

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2006, 03:04:41 pm »
Hey Drew,

Thanks for taking the time to type out such a thorough explanation.

Since I ended up refinishing the bottom and using that as the new playing surface, what is now the bottom, still has the old thick layer of poly still on it.  Do you think that is sufficient?

DrewKaree

  • - AHOTW - Pompous revolving door windbag *YOINKER*
  • Wiki Master
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9740
  • Last login:May 15, 2021, 05:31:18 pm
  • HAH! Nice one!
    • A lifelong project
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2006, 12:10:03 am »
Hey Drew,

Thanks for taking the time to type out such a thorough explanation.

Since I ended up refinishing the bottom and using that as the new playing surface, what is now the bottom, still has the old thick layer of poly still on it.  Do you think that is sufficient?

Possibly (and more likely, probably).  The thing to remember is that you sanded off the finish, exposing the wood.  At that point, the wood would start to absorb moisture from the air (or if you're in a dry climate, it'd start to dry out).  It doesn't sound as if you let it go that long between sanding it down and refinishing it.  Honestly, there's only one way to find out, and the bad part is that if it's NOT sufficient, it'll show up later when it's a PITA to deal with. 

How thick are the pieces?  The wider and thinner the piece of wood, the more prone it is to warping.  If it's like some of the tables I've seen and it's essentially a few dozen 2x4's on edge, I'd think you should be good.  If it's just three-quarter thick stuff, I'd think seriously about stripping and refinishing that side too in order to match the side you refinished.
You’re always in control of your behavior. Sometimes you just control yourself
in ways that you later wish you hadn’t

NightGod

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1052
  • Last login:July 26, 2017, 06:59:58 pm
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #58 on: July 08, 2006, 12:25:06 am »
From his pics, I'd say it's a bunch of 2x4s.

I seriously doubt he has anything to worry about.
$6.75 the hard way-one quarter at a time.

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2006, 02:48:33 am »
It's actually a little bit thicker than 2x4's on end.  I wasn't able to get all the poly off the old playing surface, which is why I ended up flipping it.  It was poured on so thick by the previous owner, I eventually gave up and flipped it.

Just as a side note...the previous owner didn't know for sure but this table is probably 30-40 years old.  It's pretty solid.

dfc106

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
  • Last login:October 17, 2007, 10:13:11 pm
    • Dave's Spot
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #60 on: July 08, 2006, 12:51:15 pm »
Great work.  The table looks fantastic.  I bet it's a blast to play on a table that size.  What did you wax it with?  What speed powder wax are you using?

Does it have climatic adjusters?  I'm guesing no based on the age, but if it does they should counter any warping, cupping, etc.  You could always add them if you wanted, but its probably more trouble and expense than its worth.

dpz147

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 129
  • Last login:March 18, 2020, 11:49:34 am
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #61 on: July 08, 2006, 09:05:30 pm »
Thanks dfc!  It does not have climatic adjusters but I run a dehumidifier in my basement 24x7 so hopefully that helps.

I waxed it with Premium Turtle Wax paste wax and then sprayed a light coat of Silicone.  I'm not exactly sure the speed of the powder wax.  It's Sun-glo and says XX-Fast Wax on the label.  The previous owner gave me 14 cans of it.

It is pretty sweet to play!

Wade

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1639
  • Last login:June 02, 2025, 11:48:57 pm
  • 80's Child
    • Wade's Gameroom
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2006, 10:33:26 pm »
Neat find!  You should look into the casters more.  800 lbs isn't that heavy, I have a 750 lb game on casters, and I roll it around just fine by myself.  Also, a 950 lb piano.  Maybe you could mark the spots on the floor, and make sure it is level just in that spot.  Then roll it off to the side when you aren't playing.

Wade

reptilehead

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Last login:January 16, 2007, 08:41:46 pm
  • eh... I've got 9 fingers left to do it right....
Re: Refurbishing a 23' suffleboard table - Finished w/Pics!!!
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2006, 03:09:58 am »
Ive been away far too long, Freaking Pc blew up on me!  :badmood: :hissy: but Im back and i have to say "GREAT JOB"  flipping the table over and re-finishing the bottom, creative way to get around all that mess on top! May it bring you years of happiness, and if you're like me, a 5spot a game!
 Side note, yeah the wife FINALLY cracked and put the kabash on the whole shuffle-bowl, almost cracked my scull in the process too. She told me I've gotta fix the xbox (or replace it) and I gotta get the ps3 before I can build the game station, so at least shes letting me have that. I don't know HOW THE HECK you convinced yours to let you have that thing, but share to the world, cause my shuffle-bowl depends on it!!!
 
  seriously though, great job!
Build it and they will come, destroy it and they will come to watch. That's a win/win situation!