Katrina Thread / New Orleans

[Dexter]

Yep, theres only one reason for the whitehouse to refuse actual aid but accept money. They can distribute the money as they see fit to their 'haves and have mores' base contributors who own companies that could provide aid relief. Haliburton anybody?

It pays to be cynical.

It does indeed pay to be cynical. Check the last paragraph of this story...

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/343339p-293108c.html

"The Navy announced yesterday that Vice President Cheney's former company, Halliburton, which has handled much of the repair work as well as support services for the U.S. military in Iraq, was hired to restore power and rebuild three naval facilities in Mississippi that were wrecked by Katrina."

Refuse actual aid, request 'cash' aid, then Bush signs off on the $10.5bn in aid, president cheneys boys get the contracts. Who didn't see that coming.

also: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685

[shmokes]

...These businesses were SUED and [the plaintiffs] WON their cases because they contracted mild cases of food poisoning.  Didn't pay for anything, the business was "doing the kind-hearted thing", and they got HAMMERED for it.  That FREE charity given COST them.  Maybe you'd like to remember that, if you shop at WalMart.

What a load of B.S.   That didn't happen.  At the very least there is some substantial information missing here, but I suspect that the whole story was fabricated.

[markrvp]

Yep, theres only one reason for the whitehouse to refuse actual aid but accept money. They can distribute the money as they see fit to their 'haves and have mores' base contributors who own companies that could provide aid relief. Haliburton anybody?

It pays to be cynical.

It does indeed pay to be cynical. Check the last paragraph of this story...

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/343339p-293108c.html

"The Navy announced yesterday that Vice President Cheney's former company, Halliburton, which has handled much of the repair work as well as support services for the U.S. military in Iraq, was hired to restore power and rebuild three naval facilities in Mississippi that were wrecked by Katrina."

Refuse actual aid, request 'cash' aid, then Bush signs off on the $10.5bn in aid, president cheneys boys get the contracts. Who didn't see that coming.

also: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/business/3335685

Dex, I'm guessing you are about 12 years old because that is the maturity of your thought process.  The 10.5 billion is from US tax dollars.  When you hear any official ask that you give cash money, the are requesting cash donations for the AMERICAN RED CROSS.  The American Red Cross is buying supplies for these people on the ground.

There is more at play here than providing a few helicopter rides and happy meals and you can't seem to grasp the scope of that.  How much money have you donated to the rescue effort?  Are you currently posting from the US gulf coast where you are helping people?  See my previous post and questions asked there which you refused to answer because YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.  It appears all you do all day over there in Ireland is try and find biased articles on the internet to support your hatred for the current US government leaders. 

Dex, you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.  I'm sure you are very proud of yourself. 

[DrewKaree]

I'm retracting my last statement on that post... which is now edited to do so....

I edited mine as well to reflect it.

[Dexter]

Dex, I'm guessing you are about 12 years old because that is the maturity of your thought process.

[markrvp]

What comment was that?

I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions.

[Dexter]

What comment was that?

I'm still waiting for you to answer my questions.

The comment was about haliburton getting the contract, which turned out to be correct.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=42375.msg390978#msg390978

I then provided links to back this up. You would know this information if you took the time to read my post instead of telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. Its obvious from your post that this is true in your case.

Also, how is linking to factual stories in the new york daily news linking to biased articles? Was the information in the article incorrect? reply at your leisure......

To answer your questions:

How much money have you donated to the rescue effort?

[markrvp]

And in your post about Halliburton you stated that was why the government was asking to give cash.  You were implying that the government was trying to raise money for Halliburton, which in fact is completely false.  Cash donations to the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army are not under government control, and therefore could not be directed to Halliburton.

Even the most biased person could not possibly claim that the American Red Cross and the Salvation Army are funding Halliburton, yet you implied it none the less. 

If you really want to help the people of America, then you can start by stopping to spread misinformation.  Save your bitterness for George Bush for a time when Americans aren't dying due to a natural disaster.

[missioncontrol]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050904/ap_on_re_us/katrina_surviving_in_the_quarter_hk1

[Dexter]

And in your post about Halliburton you stated that was why the government was asking to give cash.

[markrvp]

It is you who has nothing useful to add.  Every post I have ever seen from you has been negative towards some aspect of things occurring in the United States.

If you check my posts you will see that I have been very helpful with arcade-related information as that is what this site is intended for.  You will also see that my posts are not aimed at tearing down people or governments like you.  I have, however, taken exception to your constant US government bashing.

So, if I understand correctly, you now seem to think that George Bush created a hurricane with a secret weapon to try and destroy only the homes of black people and then withhold aid to them so as to get other countries to provide funding for Halliburton?  That's a great theory.

[DrewKaree]

I think Sean Penn's personal photographer shot this pic

[Dexter]

So, if I understand correctly, you now seem to think that George Bush created a hurricane with a secret weapon to try and destroy only the homes of black people and then withhold aid to them so as to get other countries to provide funding for Halliburton?

[markrvp]

Great!  I'm glad you now see how unreasonable your conspiracy theories are.

[Dexter]

Great!

[Crazy Cooter]

I've been wondering what annual budget FEMA works with.  Shouldn't they have a piggy bank that we raid for stuff like this?  Seems pretty stupid to give them a dime when they don't do anything, know anything, or have anything to contribute to something they are supposed to be designed to handle.

---
I'm sure that the contracts went out for "proper" bidding anyhow.  Unless it was fairly based on their stellar performance they've had for us so far.  They save us a ton in petro costs in Iraq.
---

[markrvp]

Here is one of my frustrations with some of the thoughts being posted in this thread.

On one hand we hear outrage that things aren't happening faster . . .

On the other hand we hear outrage that we didn't go through a bidding process to hire people to rebuild.  Bids have to be advertised and examined.

Out of curiosity, how many companies can provide the rebuilding services that Halliburton can?  Is there an unlimited supply of corporations who can rebuild infrastructure at a moments notice without having to round up subcontractors over a period of a few weeks?  If Halliburton were denied any government contracts simply because the current VP used to work there, then isn't it likely that we would be handicapping our options?  Could it be possible that Halliburton gets government contracts because they are actually capable of doing the job needed?  And possibly get it going faster than finding another vendor?

No it's much easier to believe it's part of some vast government conspiracy to defraud the taxpayers.

[shmokes]

Out of curiousity, does anybody know if Haliburton gets significantly more contracts from our current administration than they did with prior administrations?  Did Clinton make use of Haliburton much?  I'm basically wondering if Cheney being V.P. has meant a windfall for Halliburton, or just provided a lot of cannon fodder.

[JB]

Out of curiousity, does anybody know if Haliburton gets significantly more contracts from our current administration than they did with prior administrations?  Did Clinton make use of Haliburton much?  I'm basically wondering if Cheney being V.P. has meant a windfall for Halliburton, or just provided a lot of cannon fodder.

That's actually a good question. I never heard of Haliburton before the election, but after that it was a steady stream of "OMG TEH HALIBURTON AM GETZ TEH CONTRACT CUZ OF CHENEY!!1111 "

[DrewKaree]

Good points from www.czabe.com:

Here

[saint]

This thread teeters on the brink of post hell . . .

[TheVengeance]

This thread teeters on the brink of post hell . . .

YES , I AM WAITING !

SEND IT

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Speaking of which....Where's Dick Cheney?

[shmokes]

Speaking of Haliburton or Speaking of the devil?   

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Speaking of Haliburton or Speaking of the devil?   

 

Now, if we're talking about speaking like the devil, I think Babs Bush takes the cake:

"What I'm hearing - which is sort of scary - is that they all want to stay in Texas. Everybody is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway so this (chuckle)--this is working very well for them." (Link) - Barbara Bush

Yes...She actually said this today, live on NPR, when she was asked to comment on the refugees housed at the Astrodome.

Momma' "Beautiful Mind" Bush, nurturer, true "compassionate conservative."

mrC

[markrvp]

I agree that the comments you posted are not sensitive, but they are true.  The truth hurts sometimes.  My wife is from New Orleans and she tells me that a lot of the underprivileged there were living in houses that had been passed down 3 or more generations.  Although they had a house, they did not have electricity because they couldn't pay the utilities.  They also didn't have 3 meals a day or access to showers.  So, in reality, Barbara Bush is correct that many of these people will find themselves in a better situation than what they had.  However, having to live with 15,000 other people in a stadium is far from ideal by any stretch of the imagination and I'm sure not the first, second, or third choice for anybody who is there.

What is reality is that most of the underpriveleged evacuees won't have the means to leave wherever they have been evacuated too.  That is scary to the governments of Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio who now find that their population has grown by thousands of people who will not be paying taxes to help support the infrastructure that will be supporting them.  There is money right now, but it is a real concern for the future.

This disaster will affect many aspects of our nation's economy on many levels.  Refusing to discuss these issues because someone might get their feelings hurt won't help create long term solutions.

[Arcadiac]

This thread teeters on the brink of post hell . . .

The sooner the better. 

ARCADIAC!

[knuttz]

I am usually quite liberal and critical of President Bush but DrewKaree's last post made quite a bit of sense, especially the part about the school buses that could have been used to evacuate the city.

[Dexter]

Worth a quick read..

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310554.ece

[Stingray]

This thread teeters on the brink of post hell . . .

What took you so long to take this action, Saint?

-S

[ChadTower]

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I am usually quite liberal and critical of President Bush but DrewKaree's last post made quite a bit of sense, especially the part about the school buses that could have been used to evacuate the city.

Maybe Nagin could have used the buses to move more people, maybe not. Hopefully the congressional investigation will figure that out. In reality, however, it does not absolve the Federal Government of their responsibility to it's citizens, nor does it explain why they completely dropped the ball and fumbled about for 4-5 days.

Nagin does NOT have the resources, nor the manpower that the Federal Government has, and his failure to utilize additional buses did not cause a lack of funding for the leeves, nor did it lead to the lawlessness in the aftermath, the National Guard needed to be mobilized to do that.

He'll get his comeupance, if he is shown to have failed...just as Bush should.


mrC

[fredster]

The only models even close to this disaster are the earthquake in Kobe, Japan and the Tsunami.

NewOrleans was going to do this sometime.  It was a matter of WHEN not IF.  MrC didn't read the piece above from Drew. 

It took almost 9 years to place the people of Kobe.

[ChadTower]

So, given that many of the people who are still there are shooting at rescuers, police, repair workers, and anyone that comes near them... do you really think those people would have voluntarily gotten on a bus to evacuate?

And do you think any politician would have ever gone within 100 miles of ordering poor black people onto busses?  Too many bad prior events linked to bussing for that to be anything but a PR nightmare.

[TheVengeance]

You know , a sick and twisted part of me was hoping to see someone walking around the streets of NOLA with one of those signs that read :

REPENT , for the end of the World is NEAR!

[ChadTower]

There probably was, but then he was beaten and raped randomly by a pocket of resistance induhviduals.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Well, all my worries and concerns about accountibility can now be put to rest...Bush just announced today that *he* "will oversee an investigation into what went wrong and why."

"What I intend to do is lead an investigation to find out what went right and what went wrong," Bush said. "We still live in an unsettled world. We want to make sure we can respond properly if there is a WMD (weapons of mass destruction) attack or another major storm."

But Bush said now is not the time to point fingers and he did not respond to calls for a commission to investigate the response.

"One of the things people want us to do here is play the blame game," he said. "We got to solve problems. There will be ample time to figure out what went right and what went wrong."


AWESOME!! In other news, O.J. is still hunting for the killer!


mrC

[Goz]

AWESOME!! In other news, O.J. is still hunting for the killer!


mrC

Think he'll find the killer on the golf course?

[ChadTower]

I believe he found him while shaving.  Unfortunately, the man in the mirror was pointing a razor at OJ's throat, so OJ fled.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

MrC didn't read the piece above from Drew. 

I did read the post, but I didn't care to respond to it since you only have to get to the second bullet point before the lies start.

2. One of the primary reasons why the National Guard did not arrive sooner, was the fact that the Governor (Katherine