Argh! What to do now?

[TurboC--]

I can't believe I haven't seen this issue addressed yet (maybe I just missed it, or maybe everyone else is using ArcadeVGA cards?)  I have been planning to use an old burned-in 19" arcade monitor (Wells Gardner 19K4616) with my PC.  The vid card I am planning to use (ATI Rage LT Pro) is listed for compatibility in DOS for AdvanceMAME.  All good, right?  Not quite, because:

YOU CAN'T GIVE THE MONITOR A SIGNAL UNTIL YOU ARE SAFELY AT 15KHZ!

I knew arcade monitors needed 15khz.  But until now, I didn't know that does NOT include DOS or the BIOS screens, and needs a large workaround because of it.  Fantastic.  So now I need some kind of additional scan converter or scan limiter (?), or powering-up system where the computer powers up the monitor at the right time.  And even in that case, there is a risk it will slip out of 15 kHz, crash etc, and start feeding the monitor a deadly 31kHz.  Great.

JPAC does the scan limiting for you.  But JPAC is only for JAMMA cabinets.  My cab is not.  Additionally, my vid card (while listed as compatible) was reviewed and has intermittent sync problems when driving arcade monitors.  Combine that with the fact that my monitor is 25 years old and has significant burn in -- maybe just get a better monitor instead?  BTW, I have no AGP slot for ArcadeVGA. 

So what should I do?  Say "screw it" to my mobo, find another machine with AGP and just use ArcadeVGA?  Use JPAC and convert my stuff to JAMMA?  Get a scan limiter?  Get a special monitor power-up system and risk frying my monitor when it slips to 31 kHz?  Get a new arcade monitor that can also handle VGA frequencies? (are there even 19" ones that do it?)

So much for this project going underbudget.

[Thenasty]

I been running my pc with an arcade monitor in pure DOS mode w/Advmenu and Advmame. I did not see any problem at all just turning on the machine and see the split image during boot up. If your runing windows, that does take longer then plain DOS. maybe you should move to plain old dos which boots within seconds (10-15) to the Advmenu which then triggers the 15khz.

[TurboC--]

What vid card are you using?  I assume you use a vid amp as well?  I'm so ticked right now cause I don't like any of my options...

[SirPeale]

Get the video amp from Ultimarc.  Problem solved.

[TurboC--]

Yeah then when I'm in DOS my problems are amplified as well.  You can only feed 15 kHz to these monitors.

[GMZombie]

ok here is your answer....
your running a normal video card...and by normal i mean non ArcadeVGA card. the Best thing you can do is download the program monarc and use a DOS system. Windows is great but only for the peeps that have a AVGA card...otherwise it will not look good at all. Use Advancemame and ArcadeOS....there problem solved...if you nee dhelp with advancemame hit me back up..also the arcadeos will give you 3 beeps when setup correctly to tell you that it is ok to turn on the monitor...or you can create a relay so that the monitor will not turn on until say 30 seconds after everything else is up so that it is just showing arcadeOS....by the way a little 31khz isnt gonna immediatly burn your monitor out...ive done it a few times on accident...dont get into the habit of doin it but sometimes it just needs to be on for some reason...otherwise setup pc first with pc monitor then use arcade monitor got it now....good

[TurboC--]

"Create a relay"??  Yeah I'll just whip one up like MacGuyver.......

Even if I fix the 31kHz problem, my card is still flawed, because even though the ATI Rage Pro cards are highly recommended, one tester says it goes out of sync for no apparent reason.  This isn't acceptable.  So I have to get a new box anyway, hopefully one with AGP.  Then I will get ArcadeVGA, cause it's just the best solution. 

The other question was, my existing WG 19K4616 monitor has lots of burn-in.  How bad does burn-in affect the image when the monitor is on?  Opinions seem to differ.  I can't know personally until I try it, but I am wondering if I need to replace the monitor anyway.  Is there no 19" arcade monitor like the D9200 that handles VGA signals (in this case for short periods)?  If not I guess I will order a ~$190 one from Happ or something, if I decide mine is too far gone.

[rchadd]

http://www.mameworld.net/pc2jamma/phard.html

[TurboC--]

Thanks, I have a link to some a vidamp+freq limiter circuit as well.  But I just generally screw up something when I build a circuit, so I'd rather leave it to others.  I don't think it will matter either way unless I can't get a hold of an AGP-slotted system.  Sure would make things easier...

[SirPeale]

Yeah then when I'm in DOS my problems are amplified as well.  You can only feed 15 kHz to these monitors.

The Ultimarc video amp cuts the signal.

[TurboC--]

The Ultimarc video amp cuts the signal.

Hmmmm are you certain of this?  It's just that I don't see that feature listed on the product.  Ultimarc has some great products but they really need to improve the descriptions a bit.

[Raven..]

I've never had a problem with ATI cards going out of sync.

[TurboC--]

http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/ragepro.htm

"Comments: While this chipset is the top pick by the PC2JAMMA project, and comes highly recommended by many, I simply can't give it a great review. Given its high status, I spent a lot of time getting to know each and every one of the cards above and while their performance did differ a little, they all fell pray to the exact same problems. Occasionally a mode, for no recognizable reason, will go out of sync. It's like looking at an image through a very thin waterfall. Sometimes a slight adjustment in the modeline will bring the mode back into sync, however, this doesn't always work."

Then he says the Rage 128 chipset cards don't have the problem. 

In any case, IF the ultimarc video amp DOES have the frequency limiter on it (I need to know this) - then I may as well order it with the IPAC, and try what I currently have.  Because I am going to have to have the video amp anyway.  So I can just see what happens with my current setup, I can test out my burned-in monitor to see how bad it looks, and make a decision to replace any hardware or not.

[TurboC--]

Peale, I just talked to Andy from Ultimarc.  Their video amp DOES NOT limit the signal to 15 kHz.

[TheVengeance]

Peale, I just talked to Andy from Ultimarc.

[rchadd]

get an arcade VGA

[TurboC--]

BUGGAH!

[TheVengeance]

That's funny, bro!

[TurboC--]

It's just my personal failing of refusing to let fools like you constantly believe they are superior, interject snide comments all the time and use everything anyone says as ammunition in their little flame war for all eternity.  I apologize.

[RayB]

Why would you want to run a computer on an arcade monitor? Wouldn't that make the games FAKE ?

 

[TurboC--]

Why would you want to run a computer on an arcade monitor? Wouldn't that make the games FAKE ?
 

It's a perfect hardware emulation, running the original ROM, on the original monitor.

[SirPeale]

Peale, I just talked to Andy from Ultimarc.  Their video amp DOES NOT limit the signal to 15 kHz.

I don't get it.  The one I have appears to split the signal, just like the J-PAC.  I guess it has nothing to do with appearance.