She's just mad because she caught her husband doing it

[JoyMonkey]

Yep, though note, that kid will grow up to be trash and it will be his parents' fault.

For the record, I would not allow my children to speak to anyone like that.  The game would be left there unpurchased as a result and the boy would go home emptyhanded to sit in his room with the electricity off.

Mental note to self: When designing dream home, make sure each kids bedroom is wired on a seperate circuit.

[ChadTower]

Heh.  My house is sort of coincedentally that way.  It's a small cape and the upstairs has two rooms.  Both are kids' bedrooms.  The entire upstairs is on its own circuit.  I haven't had to do it yet because they don't have tons of electrical stuff up there.  Right now the main issue is keeping a kid under punishment from using battery operated toys since that's 95% of what they have.  Luckily they're not old enough to notice that we also flip on the baby monitor when they are sent to their rooms and can hear what they are doing.

[shmokes]

And hopefully, for your sake, when they are a bit older you will start affording them some privacy.  It won't take long at all for the kids to realize that they can't trust you.  At that point circumventing your espionage tactics will become child's play -- but they'll still resent you for trying. 

Never forget how absolutely simple it was to fool your parents when you were a teenager.  It is just as easy for your teenagers to fool you, as will it be for me.

By the way, participating in the ratings system is voluntary, but the rating itself is not self-imposed except to the extent that the publisher chooses what content to include in the game.  The rating is issued by an indepentant group.  And they ARE useful.  We all know that you don't watch and play everything before your kids.  You trust that a Disney E-rated game is going to be okay without you playing it from beginning to end first.  You don't TIVO Sesame street so that you can scan it first for inappropriate content.  As long as the ratings work they keep parents from having to personally play every crappy children's game before they buy it.

[ChadTower]

And hopefully, for your sake, when they are a bit older you will start affording them some privacy.

[DrewKaree]

The game is rated M, that means you need to be 17 to buy it. 

Riiiiiiiiiight

How's that working at the movie theater and rated R movies?

There's gonna be someone somewhere who's just as apathetic as the ticket-seller at the theater about ensuring that an age-limit is adhered to.  Scratch that, make that MULTIPLE "someone somewhere's".

[shmokes]

because they won't be criminals.

...You hope, lol

[JB]

I don't see what the uproar is about.

The game is rated M, that means you need to be 17 to buy it.  If your kids are playing it:  a) its your fault for buying the game for them;  b) the store selling the game to them just wants money and doesn't check the kids age; c) your kids are software pirates and breaking the law, so seeing them some boobies is the least of your problems.

Actually, the M rating just means it's RECOMMENDED for ages 17 and up.

Any policies regarding actual sales are at the retailer level, not the ESRB  level.

The "content" in question is not accessable without a special user developed hack/patch.  You can download nude/sex patches for quite a few games including the Sims but no one seems to care about that.

More importantly, you can download REAL porn.

But the people that care only care about this one because it's in Grand Theft Auto, which is the Ultimate Destroyer Of Civilization

[ChadTower]

because they won't be criminals.

...You hope, lol

Hey, what else can a parent do?  At some point they have to become what they will become.

[Dartful Dodger]

'Grand Theft Auto' Gets 'Adults Only' Rating

[shmokes]

I just need to find out if the "inaccessible" scenes are on the Xbox version.  I want to see what all the hoopla is about.  Again, I'd like to reiterate how lame people are.  If the game did not already deserve an A or AO or whatever rating it shouldn't get one for a sex scene.  I'm talking about a societal thing here.  The rating system is just a reflection of what consumers care about.  I just think it's lame that people think it's so important to sheild us from this, or Janet Jackson's boob, but will give LotR: Return of the King a PG-13 rating even though hundreds of severed human heads are catapulted over the city wall and people hundreds of people are brutally killed in the big battle scenes.

...and so on.

[ChadTower]

Ratings are meaningless, bought and paid for according to the amount of profit to be had or lost depending on the rating itself. 

It's no different than anything else in this world.

[tommy]

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/
GTA now rated Adult. Go to technology section.

[ChadTower]

See how stupid the rating system is?  They changed it based on content that's not even in the game.

[tommy]

See how stupid the rating system is?  They changed it based on content that's not even in the game.

They were forced to, they had to do something to make it look like they care.

[DrewKaree]

See how stupid the rating system is?  They changed it based on content that's not even in the game.

They were forced to, they had to do something to make it look like they care.

That's even SILLIER that you'd say that.  They in NO WAY were "forced" to change it.  This has nothing to do with "caring", it has to do with NEGATIVE PUBLICITY!  If they "cared", they'd come out and say "if you're a parent and don't want your kids to be further exposed to anything else, take the game to your local retailer and we'll give you a credit of "X" dollars towards another of our titles".  If this were publicity the company WANTED, they'd milk all this free pub by coming out and saying "this isn't in the game itself, this is illegal code written to exploit our game - it is up to you as parents to ensure this isn't a problem.  We as a company stand behind our product and our company's reputation" or some other such nonsense.

They were "forced" to do this as much as Ricky Williams was "forced" out of football last year

[tommy]

That's even SILLIER that you'd say that.  They in NO WAY were "forced" to change it.  This has nothing to do with "caring", it has to do with NEGATIVE PUBLICITY! 

I'm talking about ESRB, not rockstar.

[shmokes]

Yeah, Tommy's right.  ESRB had to make the change in order to not lose credibility.  As far as Rockstar is concerned, they've decreased their profit forcast by $50 million dollars due to the fact that they expect a lot of returns based on the bad press (many of them probably just people who have beat the game and realize that they can now take it back for a full refund), as well as the fact that a lot of stores will pull it off the shelves now that it's got the adult rating.  This definitely hurts Rockstar.  It's kind of a shame.  It really does seem like they meant for the material to be cut permanently.  It's not like there's a code that can be put in or like it can be accessed with an Action Replay or something.

Great game, though.  I downloaded the "hot coffee" patch for the Xbox, but haven't installed it yet.  I'll report back.  At this point I have basically no idea what it does.  I've never seen screenshots or anything.  All I know is that it unlocks sex minigames or something to that effect.  I'll post back when I get around to installing it and give you an idea of just how explicit it is.

[ChadTower]

Erm, Rockstar feeds of negative press.  Their target audience doesn't see it as negative, they see Rockstar as persecuted.  There will be no returns.  This game is far out of viable retail anyway, so this is really just press for the company.  Most people with common sense suspect this was all a charade, that Rockstar intentionally left the content and Rockstar leaked the 'hack' to the internet to unlock it.  It's calculated and it sure as hell worked.

[Dartful Dodger]

It's lazy programming.  Now that apps are on CDs and DVDs, and the internet is geared toward DSL as the standard minimum, the new generation of programmers don't worry about trimming down their files.  I work with these knuckle heads all the time.

I was planning on buying a pre-rated game, but Rockstar caved to quickly on this one.  I'm sure the executives who decided not to put up a fight or stretch this out for more press, will have no problem trimming down their programming department.

[ChadTower]

They won't have to... it is not a programmer's job to decide on the contents of the bill of materials.

[tommy]

It really dosen't matter, with a game with that rating i would expect to see blood killing and even sex.

What does mature mean to you?

[ChadTower]

What it means to us is irrelevant as the rating has a specific definition.

[tommy]

This comes right off the GTA box right in front of me.

Rated Mature, Blood and gore, Intence Violence, Strong language, Strong sexual content, use of drugs.

What did they expect was going to be in it?

[ChadTower]

Right, if you go to the ESRB's website, those are specific criteria for that rating.  The rating process isn't nearly as subjective as most people seem to think.

If the system meant anything, that game should have STARTED as Adults Only.

[DrewKaree]

This comes right off the GTA box right in front of me.

Rated Mature, Blood and gore, Intence Violence, Strong language, Strong sexual content, use of drugs.

What did they expect was going to be in it?

Pit bulls running rampant, automatic weapons, and a horse farm somewhere in there that is used for bestiality.

 

[shmokes]

Erm, Rockstar feeds of negative press.  Their target audience doesn't see it as negative, they see Rockstar as persecuted.  There will be no returns.  This game is far out of viable retail anyway, so this is really just press for the company.  Most people with common sense suspect this was all a charade, that Rockstar intentionally left the content and Rockstar leaked the 'hack' to the internet to unlock it.  It's calculated and it sure as hell worked.

Bestbuy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, Target and Gamestop have all pulled San Andreas from the shelves because they don't sell Adults Only games.  Unless I'm mistaken Gamestop is the largest videogames retailer on the planet and now owns Electronics Boutique. 

You still sure this is going to be good for Rockstar/Take-Two's bottom line???

A company doesn't reduce it's projected earnings by $50 million dollars as a PR stunt.  They do it so they don't get their asses sued off by investors.  An announcement like that causes stock prices to plummet.

Edit: Amazon.com is no longer stocking it and confirmed that EB doesn't stock it anymore. 

[tommy]

Obviouly murder is more accepted then sex if now it's not a proper game to stock.

[ChadTower]

Bestbuy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart, Target and Gamestop have all pulled San Andreas from the shelves because they don't sell Adults Only games.  Unless I'm mistaken Gamestop is the largest videogames retailer on the planet and now owns Electronics Boutique. 

You still sure this is going to be good for Rockstar/Take-Two's bottom line???

It doesn't matter.  How old is this game now?  Games nowadays are only viable at retail for a couple of months.  Everyone who was going to buy the game has bought it.  Most games fall off the shelves entirely after a few weeks, and this game is months old.  If this had been a NEW game, those stores would not have stopped carrying it because it would still be selling like hotcakes.  Anyone who works at one of those places can tell us just how fast a game drops off the retail market once it's no longer a new release.  The amount of lost sales is probably just about equal to the amount of people who said "oh, I don't have the PS2 version, now I have to buy it to see these scenes".

[DYNAGOD]

For those who are throwing forth opinion witout having yet actually seen the evidence..
keep in mind, this material is NOT in the game and is out of the reach of those abiding by their end user TOS.
<<ADULT MATERIAL WARNING>> though to be honest, its no worse than any B flick.

http://www.games.net/article_frame/article_frame.cfm?global_id=110261&id=6810&src=gametrailers

[ChadTower]

IMO, the game should have been AO anyway.  Any game in which you can graphically murder people, especially Police, should be AO.

[tommy]

There is no reason to rerate the game or pull it, mature says it all,  there is a description of all the content on the box. Nothing more should be said, read the box people.  If you didn't want to see "Mature" things then don't buy it.

People have been looking to stick it to Rockstar for a long time and now it's example time.. All in the name of saving the children, pfft. Kids have no business with this game anyway.

[shmokes]

It doesn't matter.  How old is this game now?  Games nowadays are only viable at retail for a couple of months.  Everyone who was going to buy the game has bought it.  Most games fall off the shelves entirely after a few weeks, and this game is months old.  If this had been a NEW game, those stores would not have stopped carrying it because it would still be selling like hotcakes.  Anyone who works at one of those places can tell us just how fast a game drops off the retail market once it's no longer a new release.  The amount of lost sales is probably just about equal to the amount of people who said "oh, I don't have the PS2 version, now I have to buy it to see these scenes".

Gimme a break.  San Andreas for Xbox was the number-one selling game in June.  Period.  All games for all systems included.  That was three weeks ago.  It hasn't even made it to the bargain bin yet.  How can you be serious when you suggest it is done in the market?

I'll say again, if Rockstar/Take Two could begin to believably tell the public that this would have no significant impact on the bottom line they would.  Take Two's stockprice plummeted when they lowered revenue projection by $50 million.  A company does not make a public announcement like that for shits and giggles. 

It's also significant to point out that they are pulling that code out of the game to put an M-rated version back on the shelves.  Why exactly would they be doing this, do you suppose, for a game that is no longer "viable at retail"? 

[shmokes]

I agree with Tommy.  The Mature says it all.  It is the game industry's R-rating.  There's nothing in Grand Theft Auto that puts it out of the scope of an R-rated movie, with or without Hot Coffee.

I also agree with Chad that the violence in GTA far outweighs any other concern when assigning it a rating.  All this hoopla about Hot Coffee is like making an uproar about dirty bathrooms in a sweatshop.

[tommy]

All this hoopla about Hot Coffee is like making an uproar about dirty bathrooms in a sweatshop.

Absolutly. The differnce between the M and AO is one year(17-18).

 Can you possible tell me that the parent are saying "now johnny, your going to have to wait till next year to see all that great sex in games, just enjoy killing cops and crackheads for now, i don't want you to get the wrong idea about woman this year" 

[ChadTower]

If there is any real outcry, it should have been when this game hit the market rated M in the first place.

[shmokes]

I can relate to a degree.   But not if you use the movie rating system as a template.  Kill Bill is far more violent, and has far more emotional impact than GTA.  The sex in any number of R-rated movies, Monster's Ball for example, is a hundred times more graphic (and sexy for that matter) than anything found in GTA.

But I don't so much think of the ratings system as broken so much as our society.  The ratings system is just a reflection of our society and it's mixed up priorities.  We really just don't care so much about violence.  The amount of graphic violence you can see just by flipping on an episode of Law and Order: SVU on primetime network TV is astounding.  I've always found it mind-boggling that using the "f-word" twice in a movie will get you an automatic R-rating, but in lord of the rings you can depict hundreds of severed human heads being catapulted over the walls and watch an orc walk up to a dying human and savagely finish him off with a spear in the gut and so on, yet still squeak by with a PG-13.  I think I might have already mentioned the LotR example, but it's indicative of our tolerance for a great deal of violence.

Think of just about any  R-rated violent movie you can, in fact, and I'd bet money that there is some other element in the movie, be it language or sexual content, that by itself would have garnered the R-rating.

I think it's kind of interesting that you throw prostitutes in a game like GTA and it makes enormous headlines, like that's some kind of serious problem we are facing as a society.  We're one of the most, if not THE most, violent industrialized nation in the world, yet what we seem most worried about is that a videogame would encourage our kids to have sex. 

The Hot Coffee scenes are the most graphic sex scenes in a mainstream videogame to date, but they don't even begin to go beyond, or even approach the sex scenes allowable in R-rated fare like Boogie Nights or the softcore porn you can get at the video store or watch on late-night Cinemax.

If GTA-Vice City gets an AO rating -- the most severe ESRB rating out there -- what are you going to give an actual hardore pornographic game?  M seems to me like the appropriate rating for the game.

[ChadTower]

So you're saying because the game rating system can be based upon a broken movie rating system, that the game system should also suck...

I'm not buying that.

Neither ratings system means much anyway, ratings are a commodity, plain and simple.

[shmokes]

I don't think that the ratings system is broken in the way you think it is.  Its just a symptom of a broken society.  The R-rating serves it's function pretty well -- giving people a pretty accurate idea of whether or not the content of the movie will be appropriate for them.  Violent content has little affect on the rating because violent content has little affect on our sensibilities.  The movie ratings board doesn't pay much attention to the violence because the movie consumers don't pay much attention to it.  Consumers don't want to be shielded from LotR or Spiderman or The Ring. 

I think it's Americans in general that are screwy on the issue.  Putting a ratings system in place that does't cater to consumers isn't going to fix the problem.  All that is going to do is legitimize the AO rating as something that is okay to sell in regular stores.  Giving a game a new rating isn't going to make people more sensitive to violent content.  If you start giving games an AO rating based on violent content stores will just start carrying AO games because the demand for them is so high.  Then you're left in a situation where there is no rating for hardcore pornographic games, or a situation where they are lumped in with other games but there are no longer policies in place keeping them out of traditional game retailers.

[ChadTower]

I don't think that the ratings system is broken in the way you think it is.  Its just a symptom of a broken society.  The R-rating serves it's function pretty well -- giving people a pretty accurate idea of whether or not the content of the movie will be appropriate for them.  Violent content has little affect on the rating because violent content has little affect on our sensibilities.

Maybe yours.  I consider violence worse than consensual sexual content.  Far worse.

[shmokes]

I'm talking about Americans in general.  I think I've made that pretty clear -- and I think you agree.