She's just mad because she caught her husband doing it

[ChadTower]

Yep, I agree that most people are morons, and this is part of the reason.

[Dartful Dodger]

I consider violence worse than consensual sexual content.

[ChadTower]

This from a man whose children aren't old enough to play a game rated T.

When you come home from work early and little miss ChadTower is playing a video game with a boy, you'll change your mind about simulated consensual sexual content and simulated violence.

That doesn't make any sense.

[shmokes]

I think he's saying that you are going to do whatever you see in a videogame, so your failure to shield yourself from exposure to sexual content is going to make you molest small boys.  Whereas, if it weren't for the Hot Coffee patch we would only come home early to find you slitting his throat or stabbing him with a chainsaw or, perhaps, sniping him from a rooftop.

Or, maybe he's just saying that you will be playing a videogame with a boy which, for the life of me, I can't figure out what the problem would be with that.

 

[Dartful Dodger]

That doesn't make any sense.

It will.

[ChadTower]

I'm still trying to figure out who little miss chadtower is... I don't have any daughters.

[tommy]

I'm still trying to figure out who little miss chadtower is...

That would be you!!

[ChadTower]

And tommy finally scores a point!   

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm still trying to figure out who little miss chadtower is... I don't have any daughters.

I didn't say you had a daughter. 

My comment will make sense when you come home from work early and little miss ChadTower is playing a video game with a boy, you'll change your mind about simulated consensual sexual content and simulated violence.

[shmokes]

Hmm....that doesn't help.  What in the name of god are you talking about?

[SirPoonga]

All this hoopla about Hot Coffee is like making an uproar about dirty bathrooms in a sweatshop.

Absolutly. The differnce between the M and AO is one year(17-18).

 Can you possible tell me that the parent are saying "now johnny, your going to have to wait till next year to see all that great sex in games, just enjoy killing cops and crackheads for now, i don't want you to get the wrong idea about woman this year" 

You haven't been reading.  That's not the importance.  Most stores will NOT sell a game rated AO.

[ChadTower]

So?  Go to a store that does.  We don't live in an "if store X doesn't carry it I can't get it" world anymore.

[SirPoonga]

I'm still trying to figure out who little miss chadtower is... I don't have any daughters.

I didn't say you had a daughter. 

My comment will make sense when you come home from work early and little miss ChadTower is playing a video game with a boy, you'll change your mind about simulated consensual sexual content and simulated violence.

And you are allowing your children to play an M rated game?  That's where the problem lies...
At least with many retailers like Target they asked for a drivers license when an M rated game goes through the checkout.  So some adult is allowing the minors to play it...

[SirPoonga]

So?  Go to a store that does.  We don't live in an "if store X doesn't carry it I can't get it" world anymore.

Well, where would I get it?  internet only?  many internet sites are pulling it.  Wasn;t it someone here said ebay was pulling the games.  Every store that I know that carries computer games around here has pulled it from the shelves.

[ChadTower]

Well, where would I get it?

[SirPoonga]

My point being is i could get it form the internet I suppose.  But if I wanted to get it locally I can't.  Walmart pulled it, Target Pulled it, GameStop pulled it, this store attached to Hollywood Video pulled it.  There isn't a place near me that I can physically goto and buy it.

That's the importance of the AO rating.  It will be harder to get locally and you have to completely rely on the internet to get it. 

Which I find funny as even for an M rated game, at least I now at Target they card you.

[tommy]

This thread is really getting me mad now, AO ,M , what does it matter.

Whatever makes you sleep better....it's still going to sell.

Whats the big problem here? It still comes down to if your child can play the game with all that was in it before.... sex wouldn't make anymore difference.


I agree poonga...we all can go buy a porn video but GTA is somehow worse.

[ChadTower]

They pulled it for PR reasons, not because of some respect for ratings.

[Dartful Dodger]

Ebay is not pulling it.

My friend put a GTA on eBay, two days ago they pulled it.  This was the PS2 version.  He posted other games and they have not been pulled.

They may have changed their policy today, but as of yesterday it was not sellable.

[SirPoonga]

They didn't pull GTA because of PR, they pulled it because the stores policy is to not carry AO games.  And that's my point on why a M or AO rating is important.  Like I said, It is now very hard to get the game locally because there really isn't a store, unless it is hidden in a used bin, that sells it.

[shmokes]

Chad, you oughta stop talking out your ass.  First you claim that it doesn't matter because San Andreas isn't even selling any more anyway, to which I point out that it was the #1 selling game in America last month.

Now you're saying that online retailers are not pulling it, to which I give you the following list of online retailers who have stopped stocking San Andreas: Walmart.com, Target.com, Amazon.com (though sellers in their marketplace seem to be able to still sell it), Gamestop.com, Ebgames.com, CircuitCity.com, BestBuy.com.  About the only realatively major online games retailer still stocking it is gogamer.com.  Those companies, along with their B&M counterparts, probably represent 95% of all new videogame sales in America (Walmart sells more than anyone).

If you think that this is an exaggerated report you can feel free to visit the websites.  The only exaggerated, or perhaps unsubstantiated, information in this thread seems to be coming from you.

And whether it's PR or morals, the policy to not carry AO games, at least at Walmart, Best Buy, Gamestop and Electronic Boutique have been around for a long time.

The fact that there are millions of copies out there already is irrelevant.  Retailers don't just hold onto unsold stock and sell it in the alley behind the building .  They send it back. 

This is just dumb.  The games content, both sexual or violent, is R-rated material. 

[Dartful Dodger]

The GTA's that are on eBay are one day listings. 

It took a couple of hours for them to pull my buddy's game.  Since the ones that are on eBay have bids for over 60 bucks I'll have my friend relist his and have a buy it now option for 60 bucks. Hopefully someone will buy it before they pull it.

[ChadTower]

Now you're saying that online retailers are not pulling it, to which I give you the following list of online retailers who have stopped stocking San Andreas: Walmart.com, Target.com, Amazon.com (though sellers in their marketplace seem to be able to still sell it), Gamestop.com, Ebgames.com, CircuitCity.com, BestBuy.com.

[SirPoonga]

What I am also saying is that this is ONE EXAMPLE.  Wait until the next one that isn't a major media circus and see how it plays out.  The sky is not falling, a few politicians jumped on an easy bandwagon.  The legislation will sit until the media has moved on and then it will die.  The stores will move on, companies will be more careful not to get AO ratings and eventually someone will start making AO games.

But see, this is the funny thing.  Rockstar was trying to NOT get an AO rating so they could sell it in stores.  They were going to originally have the "hot coffee" mini-games in there.  I believe it was lazy deleted so the game could pass as an M rating.  So they were trying to be careful, they just deleted the references to the scenes instead of completely removing the content to save time and money.  Very popular programming technique as programmers time costs money.

But yeah, it just happen to occur on the #1 selling game at the moment.  If it was in a budget game I don't think it would make as much media.

[ChadTower]

Having been in the Release Engineering business for a decade, I intimately understand the software release process.  I can tell you with 100% certainty, unless they are complete incompetents, that content was left there on purpose.  No content of any size makes it out the door as part of the disc bill of materials without a reason.  The larger the disc image is the more it costs to manufacture, which would cut into the profits, especially when you're expecting to make millions of copies.

This was a blundered management decision.  Let the game go out, sell a couple million copies, and then when the sales drop off leak a 'hack' that consists of one toggled flag in an easily decompiled binary.  The plan was probably that it would trigger another buying frenzy but instead it triggered Senatorial attention, the same way Canseco's book did.

[shmokes]

If that's the case the least they could have done is finish the code.  The game freezes your character after the Hot Coffee scene finishes so you can stand there and look around, or even fire your weapon, but you can't move.  It's kinda cool, though, cos your health meter freezes too so you can start shooting people until the cops come and then start shooting them and they can't do anything about it.  The cops will swarm in with helicopters and everything, but their bullets have no effect on you.  Fun for a few minutes, but in the end you have to reset.

[Dartful Dodger]

Having been in the Release Engineering business for a decade, I intimately understand the software release process.

Currently being employed in the software programming business, I intimately understand the software programming process.

[tommy]

Here's another sites story about this topic.

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=5271

They act like they found sex in a sesame street game. It's a game based on horrible things in life. Here is part of the topic.




"Plain and simple, parents cannot trust the ESRB to rate games appropriately or the industry to look out for our children's best interests.*IT'S NOT FOR CHILDREN* The ESRB and the video game industry cannot police themselves and this is yet another example of why we need legislation to limit these types of games to children."

[Dartful Dodger]

Since the ones that are on eBay have bids for over 60 bucks I'll have my friend relist his and have a buy it now option for 60 bucks. Hopefully someone will buy it before they pull it.

My friend didn't want to relist it because he was afraid of being banned from eBay, so I put it up under my name.

It was removed within 40 minutes.

[ChadTower]

Currently being employed in the software programming business, I intimately understand the software programming process.

[shmokes]

Are you telling me that when the programmers are done with it the suits at take-two pour through the code to look for anything that might not legitimately contribute to the game?  Are you telling me that they can even read those lines of code if they wanted to?

BS.  If the programmers don't clean up their own code it doesn't get cleaned up.  I'm not a programmer, but what you're talking about sounds pretty far-fetched.

[ChadTower]

Are you telling me that when the programmers are done with it the suits at take-two pour through the code to look for anything that might not legitimately contribute to the game?

[tommy]

I'm sure they didn't even bother to look though the game all that much. Rockstar has made many best selling games and i'm sure they are free to make there games without interference or having to ask anybody about what stays in.

[shmokes]

They have playtesters who play the hell out of the game looking for bugs and stuff.  I don't believe that non-programmers look through to see if there is content on the disc that can't be uncovered through normal play.  I'm not saying it's impossible and I'm going on nothing but gut feeling, but it sounds unlikely.

[Dartful Dodger]

You don't seem to be taking into account the difference between program code and media content.

You don't seem to be taking into account that 3d media IS programming code.  The "adult" animation that's being played isn't a 100meg QuickTime movie.  It's being drawn on the fly, so you can't skim the resources to see it.  The only thing you might be able to see is the nude skin, but with all the bikini skins, and other skanky skins in the game, a 50k file would be easy to over look.

These programmers aren't geniuses, they are lazy, and I wouldn't be surprised if they are currently unemployed.

[shmokes]

Why would they be unemployed?  They're selling more copies than ever. 

Chad.....back me up.

[ChadTower]

The managers responsible for the boneheaded "manipulate the media" marketing strategy very likely are unemployed. 

I understand that those scenes aren't raw MPEG and I even said it myself a few posts back.  That doesn't change the nature of the medium, which is that that content could have been taken off the disc easily.  It was taken out of the GAME easily, so why would you think it couldn't be removed from the disc?

Playtesters are 19 year old minimum wage monkeys, if they are paid at all.  They know very little about the medium and run test cases designed for them by the QA leads.  They would not uncover anything that is not covered by a prewritten test script of purposely limited scope.

You're underestimating software managers.  Most of them are NOT nonprogrammers, they're older guys who have 10+ years of experience as coders and moved up the chain to management.  How could a person reasonably be expected to make technological decisions about a medium they don't understand?  Sure, you get the occasional bonehead manager but they usually don't last long, or they get moved to marketing or business.  The majority of first level managers are guys my age, with my experience and skill level.  I actually WAS a manager and left to go back to being an engineer because I was sick of being responsible for the work of other people.

What this really comes down to is the fact that Rockstar made a conscious, arrogant decision to try and manipulate the media at a specific time in the game's sales cycle and it backfired.  It's the same thing that happened to Jose Canseco and his book.

[shmokes]

By a specific time in the game's sales cycle you mean, of course, when it was the number-one selling game in the nation.  Watch out for black helicopters.

[ChadTower]

By a specific time in the game's sales cycle you mean, of course, when it was the number-one selling game in the nation.

[fredster]

Chad, you oughta stop talking out your ass.

Now that's funny. 

Why is this thread still alive?  I mean, who cares?