She's just mad because she caught her husband doing it

[ChadTower]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/15/senate.videogame.reut/index.html

[SirPoonga]

'"We should all be deeply disturbed that a game which now permits the simulation of lewd sexual acts in an interactive format with highly realistic graphics has fallen into the hands of young people across the country," Clinton wrote in a letter to the head of the Federal Trade Commission.'

She hasn't seen it, has she.  They have their clothes on!  So it gives the same idea as two stick figures doing it.  Graphics quality has nothing to do with it!


"The Entertainment Software Rating Board last week launched a probe into whether the sexual minigame content was deliberately hidden in the game code and unlocked by the "hot coffee" modification, or if it was solely the result of the modification."

This has been answered already.  Rockstar was going to include it but took it out by just deleting the code that referenced it.  So technically it was "deliberately" hidden but the only way it oculd have been found was someone who can debug the code in hex format and find and area of the code that isn't getting executed.  So it really is a combination of the two.  Rockstar lazy deleted it (very common in the programming world, just delete the reference but not the content) and someone else found the unexecuted code.

[ChadTower]

The fact that Hillary has picked it up, though, means that it's going to become a large issue.  She's gearing up for her Presidential run and her handlers are VERY careful about what issues she runs with.  This can only mean it's going to be part of her campaign in some way.

[patrickl]

You could pick up a hooker in GTA3 on a PS2 and have sex with her too. That was quite a while ago. Well there was no actual sex displayed, but your car would be "rocking" in a special manner and afterwards your health was "up". I always found that rather amusing.

[Dartful Dodger]

So does this mean we need to run out and buy the current PC version of GTA before it get's pulled and becomes a collector's item?

[ChadTower]

Why?  The game sucks anyway.

[clanggedin]

In the version of the sex scene I saw the girl was totally naked and the guy was fully clothed. It was pretty explicit too.

[ChadTower]

Stop looking in my window, pervert.  You left streaks all over it and what appears to be a buttprint.

[JB]

No, the buttprint was mine.

[tommy]

Thats really dumb, if you let your child see killing , robbing and bloody deaths there is no reason to not let them see it all.

It's rated Mature for a reason, thats why the rateing system is in place.

Once again, blame the ones who should be blamed, the parents, not the game makers.

[ChadTower]

Holy crap, Tommy is right.  Blame the parents.  After all the handwringing, photo ops, speeches and press conferences, it really is up to the parents to manage what their kids are exposed to and what they are not...

...which makes it such a shame that most parents are lousy at parenting.

[monkeybomb]

It is amazing what parents aren't responsible for.

The other point is valid too.  How is a little sex the harmful part of a game where the objective is to rule the thug world.  You can sit on top of a roof and just pick people off for no reason and she's worried about what?  I don't know the specifics of San Andres but I beat the other ones.  Violence good, sex bad.  That's just how some folks see it.

[ChadTower]

Really, the game has an M rating, my kids aren't allowed near it with a 10 foot pole.  Same with T.  I'm not out looking for legislation to protect my kids, I protect them.  It is my responsibility to protect them, teach them, raise them, make them a pair of productive and responsible men.  If they do not turn out that way I will consider myself a complete failure as a father because it is not only my responsibility to make them good men but the most important one I will ever have.

I volunteer at various youth activities in my town and it always deeply saddens me, the amount of parents who just don't do very much.  I've worked with some great, tremendous kids with real potential that only need a tiny bit of love or attention and couldn't get much more at home than half a sandwich and some socks.

[tommy]

I'm just very tired of having to suffer due to ignorance, same with the pitbull VS owners thread i commented on, same difference.

[ChadTower]

Dude, you're a Giants fan, you revel in your ignorance.   

[shmokes]

Guys the issue isn't the regular "rocking the car" sex-with-hookers found in every GTA since GTA 3.  It's a downloadable patch that either adds or unlocks an explicit sex scene.  If it's a usermade patch, it's a non-issue.  If, however, the code was included with the shipping product and hte hack merely unlocks it, Rockstar would be liable for not identifying the code to the ESRB, who would have, in turn, given the game an A - Adults Only rating instead of the more common and acceptable M - Mature rating.  This is to the videogame world the same difference between an M or NC-17 rating and an R rating in the film world and would be akin to Lion's Gate releasing the DVD for Monster's Ball with an R rating, but having an easter egg hidden where during the Halle Berry sex scenes one could press the angle button on the DVD remote to get explicit scenes including penetration (which would, admittedly, be awesome).  It's not that it's illegal to make videos that explicity depict sex, but it IS illegal to fail to disclose content in the movie in order to get a rating that you would not qualify for had you been forthcoming about what the viewer could be exposed to.

What scares me most is this investigation getting twisted into the witchhunt that many of you clearly think it already is.  I think that GTA: San Andreas is one of the best games ever made.  It contains a great deal of violence and some strong, though comical sexual innuendo that could easily scrape by with a PG-13 rating.  Watching a partially obscured car bounce up and down while the shocks squeek does not an explicit sex scene make.  But if Rockstar DID include explicit scenes that could be unlocked and failed to reveal those to the rating board in order to get a better rating they should be investigated and held accountable.

...and so on.

[ChadTower]

When did the ESRB ratings become anything other than voluntary?

[Dartful Dodger]

When did the ESRB ratings become anything other than voluntary?

After the smoke clears from this.

You said you don't let your kids play T games, but for all you know that Elmo game you let your kids play could have an XXX unlock code.

You can't blame parents for something they couldn't control.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

...but for all you know that Elmo game you let your kids play could have an XXX unlock code.

Now that'd be hilarious.

[ChadTower]

After the smoke clears from this.

You said you don't let your kids play T games, but for all you know that Elmo game you let your kids play could have an XXX unlock code.

You can't blame parents for something they couldn't control.

You sure can blame them.  I try out any game I let my kids play, before I let them play it.  The ESRB ratings are only a voluntary, self imposed guideline for parents.  It's all about how motivated a parent is to keep their kids' exposure at a rate the parent feels is appropriate.  I can't tell you how may parents I know say things like "well I only let my kids play G games" but will allow the kids to watch them play GTA San Andreas for hours. 

Most parents aren't motivated to do what is necessary because they're too lazy and want someone else accountable. 

[monkeybomb]

Hardcore penatration closeups cannot be as bad to a child as the violence in the GTA series.  There is a twisted sense of right and wrong on this one.

If an Elmo game has something explict, then there is a problem.  But when I can start the game, put in a weapons code, then proceed to beat prostitutes with a bat until they bleed to death and then take their  money right before I pick off cops with a sniper riffle and watch the blood spurt from their heads, then don't cry about sex no matter how explict. 

[ChadTower]

I agree, actually.  The violence is as bad as the sex. 

Didn't they spend a YEAR crying about the violence?  It's time for the sex.

[monkeybomb]

I agree, actually.  The violence is as bad as the sex. 

Didn't they spend a YEAR crying about the violence?  It's time for the sex.

LOL  - yeah I guess they did.

[Dartful Dodger]

You sure can blame them.

[ChadTower]

No, what I'm saying is that my kids would not be playing GTA SA to begin with, so no matter what their friends told them about it, it would be irrelevant.

Now, if there were sex scenes in a Pooh game, that would be an entirely different matter, wouldn't it?

[SteveJ34]

You could pick up a hooker in GTA3 on a PS2 and have sex with her too. That was quite a while ago. Well there was no actual sex displayed, but your car would be "rocking" in a special manner and afterwards your health was "up". I always found that rather amusing.

Hmmmm.....depending on the hooker, one might expect health to be worsened rather than improved. 

[Dartful Dodger]

No, what I'm saying is that my kids would not be playing GTA SA to begin with, so no matter what their friends told them about it, it would be irrelevant.

Now, if there were sex scenes in a Pooh game, that would be an entirely different matter, wouldn't it?

GTA was an M game, some of the parents that bought that game tested it.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

People who are active in the community playing with other people's kids, don't have time to watch their own kids 24/7 so they'll miss the event that turns their kids gay.

Yeah! Like playing Winnie the Poo games...Oh, wait..no.   

Anyhow, I agree with shmokes on this. The solution is for game developers to held accountable for "hidden" explicit material, that gets in under the applied ESRB rating. Otherwise, parents are not being allowed to make an informed decision as to whether it's OK to bash a hookers head in and steal her money, as opposed to having sex with her.

Now, the next logical question is: Are they wearing protecting while doing it in GTA: SA? 

[shmokes]

Chad you seem to be missing the point.

There is content, possibly added by the manufacturer, in this game that is not suitable for the rating it was given.  It's the same concept as hiding inappropriate material in a Whinnie the Pooh game (though admittedly that would be worse considering the game's audience).  But to suggest that it's okay to hide the material in GTA simply because you wouldn't let your kids near it anyway because of the M rating is naive (especially considering Disney's history of easter eggs from such films as The Little Mermaid, Lion King, Aladdin and Who Framed Roger Rabit). 

The fact that participation in the ratings system is voluntary is irrelevant.  You of all people, a parent who actually makes use of the ratings in order to make informed decisions about what content your kids are being exposed to, should care about this.  I know it's me, and I'm a liberal who immensely enjoys watching you fume over being called a geek, but there's no good reason why you shouldn't be on the same page as me on this.  If publishers sneak content into their games and get a lower rating than they would have got had the ESRB been aware of the content, then the rating system -- the one you have explicitly told us that you rely on -- is broken.  That should matter to you.  The fact that you "try out" the game is meaningless.  Thousands, probably millions of people played GTA: San Andreas from beginning to end without coming across this material. 

FWIW, I also think that it's retarded that making the sex scene more graphic would change the rating.  Short of something like rape or child molestation there's not much you could depict sex-wise that would remotely outweigh the graphic violence.  What kind of screwy person is okay with their kid stabbing a pedestrian to death with a chainsaw as long as he doesn't pick another pedestrian and have sex with her.

With all that said, does anyone know if I can download the patch for the Xbox version?

[JB]

The disabling of abandoned features is a long-standing tradition in the game industry.

IMO, rating a game based on content that was disabled but left on the disk is much like rating a movie based on the scenes left in the editing room. 

[mr.Curmudgeon]

IMO, rating a game based on content that was disabled but left on the disk is much like rating a movie based on the scenes left in the editing room.

But those pesky kids could never get their hands on that edited footage (unless it's released on a special edition DVD)...

With the "hidden" stuff in GTA, it's already there...just begging to be unlocked. Teasing you, tempting you with "coffee"...working you over, possibly trying to make your kids gay...or something.


mrC

[tommy]

Dude, you're a Giants fan, you revel in your ignorance.

[JB]

IMO, rating a game based on content that was disabled but left on the disk is much like rating a movie based on the scenes left in the editing room.

But those pesky kids could never get their hands on that edited footage (unless it's released on a special edition DVD)...

With the "hidden" stuff in GTA, it's already there...just begging to be unlocked. Teasing you, tempting you with "coffee"...working you over, possibly trying to make your kids gay...or something.


mrC

So THAT'S why I keep waking up with a copy of GTA in my pants!

Kinda creepy, realy, since I don't even own it...

[shmokes]

It owns you.

[ScoopKW]

I agree, actually.  The violence is as bad as the sex. 

Didn't they spend a YEAR crying about the violence?  It's time for the sex.

Remember the George Carlin routine?

I'd like to substitute the word [censored] in movies for the word "kill."

Can you imagine?

"Sherriff, we caught ya' and now we're going to [censored] you. But we're going to [censored] you slow...."

ScoopKW

PS - But then again, look at this forum. Kill. Kill. Maim. Murder. Torture. Rape.  None of those were auto-censored. Let's try another word:

---fudgesicle---!

See my point? We have less of a hang up about violence than we do about sex here, too.

[ChadTower]

You of all people, a parent who actually makes use of the ratings in order to make informed decisions about what content your kids are being exposed to, should care about this.

[bionicbadger]

I don't see what the uproar is about.

The game is rated M, that means you need to be 17 to buy it.  If your kids are playing it:  a) its your fault for buying the game for them;  b) the store selling the game to them just wants money and doesn't check the kids age; c) your kids are software pirates and breaking the law, so seeing them some boobies is the least of your problems.

The "content" in question is not accessable without a special user developed hack/patch.  You can download nude/sex patches for quite a few games including the Sims but no one seems to care about that.

[tommy]

Seems to me it's a whole lot easier to just look for some real porn online and nevermind GTA, if they want it and you're not looking they will find it.

[JoyMonkey]

Just last week I was buying a game in Toys R Us (which I don't think should really be selling M rated games anyway) and the guy infront of me was buying XBox San Andreas for his kid. The kid was the most obnoxious little bastard I've ever seen, kept telling the girl behind the counter how much her job sucked and how he'd never be caught dead working there- and the kid was about 8 years old! And the father just stood there and let him act like that while he paid for the game. I would have gotten a boot to the head if I acted that way as a child. Next week the kid will be all 'Dad you <CENSORED BY SAINT>, get me the new PSP GTA'. Sad.
Then the lady behind me asked the girl behind the counter if they had San Andreas for XBox. The girls says 'Yes, what age is the person you're buying it for?' The woman says 'He's six'. The girl recommended that she not buy the game because of it's explicit content, but the woman said something to the effect of 'You can't tell me what I can and can't give to my own <DITTO> son, give me the <DITTO AGAIN> game, where is your <AND A 4TH TIME> manager?'.

I can't understand why these parents act like this, humanity is doomed!


saint's note - please don't use mis-spellings to get around the auto-censor. If the auto-censor won't let you say it, don't try to trick it. Thanks!

[ChadTower]

Yep, though note, that kid will grow up to be trash and it will be his parents' fault.

For the record, I would not allow my children to speak to anyone like that.  The game would be left there unpurchased as a result and the boy would go home emptyhanded to sit in his room with the electricity off.