Newsweek Allegations

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Strike one for tolerance. I'm waiting for the Christian Coalition to repudiate this.


[link]

[fredster]

Why?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Why?

I was joking, pointing out that the sign is ironic. But, if you can't see the irony...I don't think I'm capable of explaining it to you. Maybe someone else can.


mrC

[ChadTower]

I had to read that three times before I figured out why the Korean needs to be flushed.

I need my glasses.

[fredster]

MrC,

Oh, I just kinda thought it was 'cause of this....

If you didn't understand that, I guess I'm not capable of explaining that to you either.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

WHAT THE <censored> IS YOUR POINT??? It's OK for Baptist ministers to call for the Koran to be flushed because we were attacked on 9-11?

Btw, If you threw that picture in my face in person...you'd regret it. You're too weak to make a point so you resort to exploiting 9-11, just like your pathetic leader.

Don't think for a minute that I need a reminder of what happened...



mrC

[fredster]

Like I said, if you don't understand that, then I hold little hope I can explain it to you.

It makes all the points I think.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Like I said, if you don't understand that, then I hold little hope I can explain it to you.

It makes all the points I think.

<censored> moron....

[fredster]

I guess you ran out of arguements huh?

What do you care what some backwoods preacher says or posts on a sign in the middle of nowhere?

It's inconsistent with your religious views to care what they say.

I'm waiting for the Christian Coalition to repudiate this.

We are still waiting on the Muslim Coalition to repudate my pic....

[Dartful Dodger]

<censored>

FREDSTER WON!!!

[ChadTower]

That got odd pretty quickly.  Is Mr C drunk or something?

[fredster]

That got odd pretty quickly.  Is Mr C drunk or something?

Nah, just a sore loooosssseerrrrr..

[ChadTower]

Nah, just a sore loooosssseerrrrr..

Eh, the whole "it's all because of 9-11" argument is pretty easy to counter with the general Liberal "cause and effect" argument.  I've even seen him use it.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

I guess you ran out of arguements huh?

What do you care what some backwoods preacher says or posts on a sign in the middle of nowhere?

It's inconsistent with your religious views to care what they say.

I'm waiting for the Christian Coalition to repudiate this.

We are still waiting on the Muslim Coalition to repudate my pic....

Yeah fredster...*I* ran out of arguments, so *I* went ahead and posted a picture of one of the most horrific attacks on innocent civilians in our nations history. It's tramatic and uneccesary...and for you to act as if *anyone* needs a reminder is pathetic and insulting.

Btw, Muslims around the world *did* repudiate the attacks. There is no "muslim coalition" but some of the highest muslim scholars stood by America's side after the attacks. But with your limited "us" against "them" mentality I'm not suprised you're ignorant of that fact.

Thanks for derailing what was a reasonable argument with your irresponsible emotional appeal.
I guess when you don't have anything to say, a big picture of the flaming towers certainly covers that up fairly well.

mrC

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Nah, just a sore loooosssseerrrrr..

Eh, the whole "it's all because of 9-11" argument is pretty easy to counter with the general Liberal "cause and effect" argument.  I've even seen him use it.

So in your world....9-11 exists in a hypothetical "vaccum"? Just a completely random attack? Absolutely no "cause and effect". Interesting.

So, in essense, the "cause and effect" argument is effectively countered with the "they're just crazy terrorists who hate little Ole' innocent America argument."

mrC

[fredster]

Btw, Muslims around the world *did* repudiate the attacks. There is no "muslim coalition" but some of the highest muslim scholars stood by America's side after the attacks. But with your limited "us" against "them" mentality I'm not suprised you're ignorant of that fact.

Yeah, name one.

I guess when you don't have anything to say, a big picture of the flaming towers certainly covers that up fairly well.

Or, I could have just said :

F*ck you moron....

That was good huh?

Come on Dude.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Btw, Muslims around the world *did* repudiate the attacks. There is no "muslim coalition" but some of the highest muslim scholars stood by America's side after the attacks. But with your limited "us" against "them" mentality I'm not suprised you're ignorant of that fact.

Yeah, name one.

2 secs. on Google. As I've said before, your limited "world view" disallows for this reality, so you never even thought of looking. I guess it's easier for you to hate them if you continue to ignore these facts.

http://islam.about.com/cs/currentevents/a/9_11statements.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/03/11/madrid.anniversary/
http://www.cair-florida.org/ViewArticle.asp?Code=AA&ArticleID=135
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

[ChadTower]

So in your world....9-11 exists in a hypothetical "vaccum"? Just a completely random attack? Absolutely no "cause and effect". Interesting.

So, in essense, the "cause and effect" argument is effectively countered with the "they're just crazy terrorists who hate little Ole' innocent America argument."

Once again, and you do this every time I say something it seems, you are putting statements into my post that are not there.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

That got odd pretty quickly.  Is Mr C drunk or something?

Not odd...I just can't stand people who think it's perfectly reasonable to throw pictures of 9-11 around to make a point, as if somehow, the rest of us complete forgot about one of the most tramatic attacks visited upon our nation. Nothing pisses me off more, and makes me want to pummel somebody more than when they stand on the towers like they're some sort of soapbox for their twisted, bigoted ideologies. The news networks have practiced a self-imposed moratorium on broadcasting the smoking towers out of respect for the dead and their families and because it has proven to be highly tramatic to viewers, as it helps perpetuate a sort of continued national PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).

It's a highly emotionally charged bit of imagery that detracts from civil debate by clouding the arena with extreme responses. Most likely that is fredsters intent.

To think that just because someone is on the other side of an argument, that they were/are somehow not as effected by 9-11, is extremely insulting and deluded.

mrC

[ChadTower]

And let me tell you, it was a glorious bit of intelligence to react that way and provide a 2 second way to set you off into ban me land.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Once again, and you do this every time I say something it seems, you are putting statements into my post that are not there.  I put no opinion into that post whatsoever.

The text of my statement was a simple observation of the way these discussions usually go.  I'm getting tired of telling you not to put words in my posts.

Most of my response was in the form of a question. Maybe you missed that. Or maybe you're just generally playing Devil's Advocate, without really wanting a reply.

Either way, maybe it'd be better if you actually *said* something rather than insinuiating broad generalities, then leaving it up for so much interpretation.

You play this game a *lot*...The I'm mister "independent", not really saying what I'm saying guy. I'm just as tired of working to figure out what you are trying to get at as you are of me "putting words in your posts."

Eh, the whole "it's all because of 9-11" argument is pretty easy to counter with the general Liberal "cause and effect" argument.  I've even seen him use it.

So with this statement, you weren't implying anything? Just serving the public trust here at the Ole' BYAOC by analyzing my techniques? 

It seems to me like good ol' boy, holier-than-thou condescension. You even assign the argument a political label as if it's some sort of liability (ie: the Liberal argument)...like the only people who find a causal relationship between events that led up to the 9-11 attacks are liberals.

Ok, in other words, here's the deal...if you make an effort to actually say what you mean, I won't have to guess so much.

mrC

[fredster]

Yeah.

[mr.Curmudgeon]

And let me tell you, it was a glorious bit of intelligence to react that way and provide a 2 second way to set you off into ban me land.

Whatever. There are particular things that bother me, and getting banned wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. The worst thing that could happen would be if fredster were in striking distance when he flashed that 9-11 picture in my face.

It's the principle of the thing.


mrC

[fredster]

That's a #2.
Moral high ground thing.  "principles"

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Yeah.  You had to look.  Couldn't think of one off the top.

You actually wrote that?? I've had better arguments with an empty bucket. I'm sure you had to look for that picture of 9-11 too....does that somehow mean it didn't happen?

[mr.Curmudgeon]

That's a #2.
Moral high ground thing.  "principles"

Hey, some of us have them...some of us don't.

[fredster]

Do you know anybody that has them?

[ChadTower]

It seems to me like good ol' boy, holier-than-thou condescension. You even assign the argument a political label as if it's some sort of liability (ie: the Liberal argument)...like the only people who find a causal relationship between events that led up to the 9-11 attacks are liberals.

It's more like talking about someone in front of them.  Not quite the same but you're getting the idea.

Ok, in other words, here's the deal...if you make an effort to actually say what you mean, I won't have to guess so much.

What are you, a chick?  Man up, Alice.

[shmokes]

Like I said, if you don't understand that, then I hold little hope I can explain it to you.

It makes all the points I think.

<censored> moron....

Give the guy a break, he still eats glue.  Nevertheless, Mr. C is on the money.

[shmokes]

Want me to find 5:1 that said the opposite?

Why yes, you mean back up your claims with evidence?  That's a fantastic idea. 

Preferably off the top of your head, of course, but if you have to look it up we'll let it slide.

[Dartful Dodger]

I have to work late tonight so I need a good laugh.

Fredster, make Mr C cry again.

[saint]

This thread makes me want to just ban the everything else forum altogether. Somewhere people have drifted from debating ideals to personal attacks and mean spiritedness - on both sides of the political spectrum.

Feh.

[shmokes]

sorry saint

[fredster]

Thank you for your input Shmokes.  It was much appreciated and thoughtful.

Dodger, I don't have the heart to make c cry again.  It would perpetuate a Post Thread Tramatic Stress Disorder (PTTSD).

(I can make up disorders also). 

[Dexter]

FYI gentlemen.....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0526/guantanamo.html

And straight up, the personal stuff does tarnish the board and serve only to highlight your lack of civility/valid agruements.

It's nice to be nice 

[fredster]

It sure is nice to be nice.

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/605

back at ya Dexter.

[ChadTower]

I riot whenever I see on TV that someone in Iraq is burning our flag or hanging our leaders in effigy.

[Dexter]

It sure is nice to be nice.

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/605

back at ya Dexter.

You'll forgive me if I stick to ACTUAL news channel sites.

From their 'about' page...

"Militant Islam Monitor will aim to provide the informational arsenal necessary to take part in the struggle against militant Islam and terrorism."[quote

[mr.Curmudgeon]

Saint,

This thread makes me want to just ban the everything else forum altogether. Somewhere people have drifted from debating ideals to personal attacks and mean spiritedness - on both sides of the political spectrum.

There are times when people cross the boundaries of decency and pander to the worst elements of human nature in an attempt to further their own crass ideologies, and there are times when they deserve to be called out for it. I believe this is one of those times.

When you took down pictures that I've posted of wounded soldiers in Iraq, I understood, and if, in an attempt to show a causal relationship between the events leading to the 9-11 attacks, I chose to post pictures of slaughter Afghanis, killed in the civil unrest after they no longer served U.S. interests, or of Iraqi children starved to death because of sanctions and Iraqi babies mutated by Depleted Uranium left over from the first Gulf War, I understand that they'd surely be taken down as well. Yet, pictures of passenger jets full of innocent people crashing into buildings full of innocent people is "okey dokey", I'm at a loss. Is "blood" the standard of the day? Or is it ok to show because this disaster happened to "us"?

We've all seen images/video of the 9-11 attacks hundreds of times. I will not stand by as fredster callously claims this event as his own personal tragedy.

Thank you for your input Shmokes.  It was much appreciated and thoughtful.

You know the harsh reality, most likely, is that your flippant use of images of 9-11 to bolster an already irrelevant argument shows a complete lack of understanding for the severity and absolute tragedy of the event itself. You could care less that it actually happened, only that it helps justify your horribly xenophobic and jingoistic nature.

It probably hurt your "pride" more than your heart and soul. I, on the other hand, have enough compassion for people (even those I completely disagree with) to understand that they probably felt some of the collective trauma we all experienced on that day. I couldn't muster enough gall to so casually use imagery of the attacks in my own personal debating arsenal. People's friends and family members were on those planes and in those buildings. Torn apart, terrified, bloodied, broken and burning. I would also, never assume that just because someone disagrees with me, they somehow didn't "understand" the significance of the attack, nor am I arrogant enough to suggest that they somehow "forgot" the attacks happened.

Your continued disregard for the reverence that image deserves, and your complete enmity, and scorn towards those who feel emotionally effected by it successfully illustrates the disconnect  between your motives and the reality of that day. While you are free to exploit it for some sort of morbid personal gain, it remains beneath contempt and I'd had hoped you were a better man than that.

Scoff all you want, it will only further demonstrates your total disregard for the effects those attacks had on our entire nation, and your complete and total lack of respect for those who died.

I've written you off, you are free to do the same to me...it seems that is what you do best. Now that you've seen fit to accuse me of "forgetting 9-11" I can only communicate through text on a screen how wrong you truly are. But trust me, you go ahead and try that in person to someone like myself and you'll see how vivid our memories really are.

mrC

[ChadTower]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/26/crosses.burned.ap/index.html

I will riot at 10:30, right after my coffee.