Mark's Multipanel Project

[markrvp]

Okay, I understand. If he is willing to accept payment or anything I'd be willing to pay, I really like that graphic. Thanks.

JohnnyBoy brings up a good subject for a quick Photoshop tip.  If you like a graphic, but want to alter it's hue (color tint), here is how to do it in Photoshop.

Go to the IMAGE menu, and select HUE & SATURATION.  You can drag the hue slider left or right to globally change the hue.

I took the image from this control panel and used this method to make it red.  The shadows seemed a little dark, so I made a small curves adjustment. 

[markrvp]

I have the control panel completely wired up and fully operational.

[markrvp]

This panel is completetly hot-swappable and could be used with any computer with 2 open USB ports.  Here are the controls:

- HAPP 49-WAY JOYSTICK
- WICO 8-way Leafswitch Joystick
- 7 Player 1 pushbuttons (Happ Concave with Horizontal Microswitch)
- 6 Admin buttons:  Tab, F2 advance, F3 Reset, Enter, P pause, ESC  (these will allow you to navigate through almost any FE and change any control configuration within MAME)  All 7 buttons are Happ Concave with Horizontal Microswitch

All of these are wired to a GROOVY GAME GEAR GP-WIZ 49.  This allows you to use a 49-way joystick in 49-way, 8-way, 4-way, 2-way, Q-bert diagonals, and a couple of other modes I'll never use.  It also has 23 additional inputs for joysticks or buttons.  I assigned the button codes in MAME, but I think I will use a utility like JOY TO KEY to make the buttons appear to the computer as keyboard presses.  This will simplify the MAME config files I think.


I also have 3" Betson Imperial trackball that I got on the B/S/T forums for under 20 bucks.  I don't like
this trackball as well as the HAPP on my 4p panel, but this trackball is still very nice.  I have the Trackball and two mouse buttons attached to a USB mouse hack that I got from OSCAR CONTROLS.

[markrvp]

This wiring job is much nicer than on my first panel here:

[markrvp]

Here are my observations so far:

1.)  The GP-Wiz 49 works differently than a keyboard encoder (Duh!)  I don't like having to map joystick buttons to MAME functions.  I definitely want to use JOYTOKEY or another program suggested by RandyT at GroovyGameGear to make the buttons appear to the computer as keyboard keystrokes.   I am also getting some weird stuff in games that use a trackball.  I am pretty sure this is because with joystick enabled, the games are mapped to use either the trackball or the joystick.  On one game I was able to correct this by mapping the analog axis controls to MOUSE only.  But, another game wouldn't register the trackball movement when I tried this, so I may have to manually configure the .ini files (or config) for those games.  WHAT A PITA.  Somebody please pipe in on how to make this easier as this frustrates me and I consider it 1 strike against using keypad interfaces or gamepad hacks for games that don't need analog controls.  Also, you need to configure your FrontEnd with a hotkey to bring up the joystick mode selector (or wire up the hotkey to do it manually on the fly - I think I will add the hotkey button).

2.)  The 49-way joystick with the GP-Wiz 49 is a neat joystick for all-in-one joystick use.  I have played Pacman in 4-way mode and this works great.  Donkey Kong has been frustrating, because the joystick doesn't seem to return to center well.  The result is that when you try and stop Mario from moving forward with the hammer, he keeps going and the barrel rolls under the hammer and you die.  This problem may resolve itself over time when the grommet is broken in better.  The throw of this joystick is longer than what I am used to, but you don't have to move the joystick to the edge to move.  Very little pressure in the direction you want to go makes it go.  If you are used to hitting a restrictor (like I am) then this takes some getting used to.

3.)  WICO 8-WAY LEAFSWITCH JOYSTICKS ROCK!!!!  I had Happ competition joys on my 4p panel and they are just okay.  The Wico just kicks ass.  Shooting in Robotron is incredibly easy.

4.)  The Betson 3" trackball is pretty nice.  I put GroovyGameGear encoder wheels on it which makes it work much better.  Golden Tee worked well although I like the way the Happ ball keeps spinning after you hit it.

5.)  I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE having the left and right mouse buttons where they are.  This is very functional for games like Golden Tee Golf & World Championship Bowling where you need to turn left and right.

6.)  I like having ADMIN buttons on this panel as I am having to do a lot of controls configuring in the MAME menus to work.

[markrvp]

If you have never seen the inside of your trackball, or are curious about the Groovy Game Gear encoder wheel upgrade for Betson Imperial Trackballs, here are a couple of pics.  The first pic is a comparison between the standard encoder wheel and the GGG upgrade.  The second pic is of both upgrade wheels installed.

[markrvp]

Before moving the CP box to my arcade cabinet, I tested the controls on my laptop.  This made troubleshooting easier.  I found that the X & Y axes on my trackball moved in reverse, so I had to make a quick 4 wire switch and everything worked perfectly.

[markrvp]

Okay, the proof is in the pudding.

[markrvp]

Final shot of the new box on the cab.

[Flinkly]

is that an instrution card on your wall?  now that's a new place for those...

as for the panel, it looks alot better than your franken.  except the buttons spacing, but if you like it, then who cares what i think.  good luck on the next ten boards.

[JonnyBoy]

Both the CP and the cabinet look rad. And damn does that overlay look nice in red *hints to whoever made it* 

[Dire Radiant]

Looks great Mark. I have an aversion to huge panels and that one is a very neat and elegant solution. I especially like the blue/black buttons. Very distinctive touch. Now that you've decided you love the Wico leaf sticks are you going to replace the other one with a Wico? It would really bring the asthetics of the whole thing together.

[markrvp]

Now that you've decided you love the Wico leaf sticks are you going to replace the other one with a Wico? It would really bring the asthetics of the whole thing together.

I want to replace the 49-way handle with a matching balltop.  I'm just waiting for Randy at GGG to get them ready.  I still like having the 49-way in this panel so that I can play 4-way games & Q-bert without having to add another stick. 

On my Robotron panel it will definitely be two Wico 8-ways with shiny red balltops!

[cholin]

Yeah Ive seen it before too, loved it!  I think it really looks nice and it really makes any blue theme complete.  If the source comes out....

[Knievel]

That CP looks great on there Mark, fits in really nice.
If you're changing the rest of your art to match I've got a sideart I just did that might intrest you.
Had it printed on adhesive vinyl and it came out beautifully. Of course you'd probably wanna change the text

[markrvp]

That CP looks great on there Mark, fits in really nice.
If you're changing the rest of your art to match I've got a sideart I just did that might intrest you.
Had it printed on adhesive vinyl and it came out beautifully. Of course you'd probably wanna change the text

I love it!  Is this one 12" with a Neon Tube?

How's this:

[Knievel]

No Mark I just did this one. The one with the neon is a slightly altered version of Pixel's Atomic logo.
That looks pretty good, I would suggest a nice blue glow behind the S to give it some *punch*

[markrvp]

No Mark I just did this one. The one with the neon is a slightly altered version of Pixel's Atomic logo.
That looks pretty good, I would suggest a nice blue glow behind the S to give it some *punch*

I meant was the diameter 12" (30.5 cm) for use with a neon speaker tube?

Your colors seem to glow more than mine.  Did you increase the saturation?

I'll add the glow behind the logo.  Like a dummy I flattened the image before I saved it, so I'll recreate it.

[Knievel]

This one's a little bigger, 13" overall. That was just a small low-res file I posted. I'll send you the photoshop file minus the text and you can play with it.

Yes I always up the saturation, looks better when printed.

[markrvp]

I'm pretty sure I've decided to take the Ipac4 out of my 4 player Frankenpanel and mount it permanently in the cabinet itself.  This serves a couple of purposes.

1.  I won't have to have a separate keyboard or gamepad encoder for each panel, I'll just use quick disconnect connectors.

2.  I can permanently mount & wire the coin & start buttons to the cabinet.

I am going to mount the coin & start buttons between the monitor and control panel.  There will be  big red lighted button in the middle that is wired to ESCAPE to exit games.  There will also be lighted blue buttons for SELECT GAME (actually wired to P1 start for FE selection) and PAUSE (only to balance the layout - 2 buttons on either side of big red button).

Here is the artwork.  Any suggestions on how or if I should do this differently?

[Joystick Jerk]

Are you going to have any admin buttons on the main CP, or just those few on the seperate player panel? If you're going to put them all in the player panel, another idea would be to take out the three middle buttons, and replace them with a selection of volcano buttons(I like your design, this is just an alternate idea that sprang to mind... also assuming you can get your hands on some volcanos). If you could get volcanos with blue buttons, that would really look great with your theme!:


From this:



To this:

[markrvp]

Joystick Jerk:

THAT LOOKS REALLY COOL. 

I've already got the big red button.  On the main cab that my kids and their friends play, I'm going to keep other admin buttons off.

BUT . . . I'm going to build another cab and I think I will definitely set it up like that.  I just bought 3 Volcano buttons (not cheap, like $23 each with cones).  I may set those aside and buy 3 more and use them like that.

THANKS A LOT FOR THE SUGGESTION!  I read on another post that you are a graphic artist?  Would you consider doing some CP art later on?

[markrvp]

Here is the latest addition to the controls I need to put in a panel.

Initial thoughts are to put this on a panel with the Star Wars Yoke and a throttle.  Yoke on the left, Analog Stick on the right, throttle in the middle.

Now, what do I use for a throttle?

[Tiger-Heli]

Got to this thread late, but . . .

Mark - Looking great so far - a couple of comments -

The ikari panel - I would think the player 2 buttons would be awkward for Ikari, but swapping the joysticks would be awkward for Assault.  Frosty did it the way you did - AFAIK, none of these games used more than 3 buttons, perhaps you could add buttons on the outsides, but that might kill the symmetry.

Also - as much as possible, I would try to combine controls into as few panels as possible.  I know I kind of pioneered (somewhat) the modular panels thing, but I also knew there will end up being times when I would play a game that the current panel supported just to avoid having to swap them over.  The more you can avoid this, the better.  (Then again the more sensitive you are to PROPER controls - leafs for Robotron, for example - the harder this is to achieve.)

1.)  The GP-Wiz 49 works differently than a keyboard encoder (Duh!)  I don't like having to map joystick buttons to MAME functions.  I definitely want to use JOYTOKEY or another program suggested by RandyT at GroovyGameGear to make the buttons appear to the computer as keyboard keystrokes.

Interesting - I'm not sure that I would recommend a middle-ware program if it wasn't required.  RBJoy would be the other program.

I am also getting some weird stuff in games that use a trackball.  I am pretty sure this is because with joystick enabled, the games are mapped to use either the trackball or the joystick.  On one game I was able to correct this by mapping the analog axis controls to MOUSE only.  But, another game wouldn't register the trackball movement when I tried this, so I may have to manually configure the .ini files (or config) for those games.

I think I had a similar problem that I got around by turning off Analog joystick support, but then you probably can't use your buttons.  I would E-mail RandyT and see if he has run into this or has any suggestions.

Also, you need to configure your FrontEnd with a hotkey to bring up the joystick mode selector (or wire up the hotkey to do it manually on the fly - I think I will add the hotkey button).

What you NEED to do is find a way for your frontend to parse controls.dat and launch the GP-Wiz software in the correct mode before starting the game.  That will eventually happen, but I'm not the one to ask about doing it.

Donkey Kong has been frustrating, because the joystick doesn't seem to return to center well.  The result is that when you try and stop Mario from moving forward with the hammer, he keeps going and the barrel rolls under the hammer and you die.  This problem may resolve itself over time when the grommet is broken in better.

The general consensus seems to be that that will go away when it gets broken in.

6.)  I like having ADMIN buttons on this panel as I am having to do a lot of controls configuring in the MAME menus to work.

Agreed although for me with a desktop panel I have pretty easy access to a keyboard.  For a cab, I would think a wireless keyboard would be a good option.

[markrvp]

I would like to publicly thank Tiger-Heli for weighing in on this project.  It was Tiger-Heli's article on multipanels ( http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli ) over on Mameworld.net that originally inspired me to try this.

TH (is it okay if I call you TH?): 

Having the analog joystick active is what is causing the problems with the Trackball as you suspected.  Since all of the games I am playing with the GP-WIZ 49way joystick use digital inputs for joystick directions, do you know if JOYtoKEY also translates the joystick directions into keyboard strokes (like left arrow, right arrow)?  I have tried this program and it works pretty well on the buttons, but I didn't try to map the joystick movements yet.  Also, I loaded up RBJoy, but it was at 3 in the morning and it wasn't apparent how to map the modifier keys like CTL, ALT, SPACE. 

I'll also e-mail Randy and see what he says on the Analog control being active.

[Tiger-Heli]

>TH (is it okay if I call you TH?): 

Call me anything but "late for dinner".  Just kidding (or not), but TH is fine.  Don't know the answer to the rest of your post, though.

[markrvp]

Tiger-Heli voiced a concern that I have had over the controls placement for the Ikari Warriors panel (mechanical rotary).  I have modified my design to combine that panel with the Tron panel.  I think both can be played easily on this panel design.

There are two Tron trigger grip handles.  The one on the right will also have a thumbswitch.  The joystick bases will be the 49-ways hooked to GP-Wiz 49s.  All other controls will be wired to the GP-Wiz 49s.  I have also added my Push/Pull spinner in-line with these.  The right-side Tron handle will always be the primary handle for single joystick games like Tron.  The thumbswitch makes it possible to authentically play Discs of Tron.

The LS-30 joystick & button layout for Player 1 & Player 2 is now identical.

Well, what are your opinions?

[Tiger-Heli]

Following are some images of the wiring and control placement.  One thing to note is how close the player one 1-6 buttons are.  When I made the layout, I accounted for the width of the button lip, but the lock nut underneath is wider than the lip.  OH S#/T!  Not to worry, let's just alternate the nut orientation.  I put the lock nut on normally for buttons 1, 3, 5 and then put the lock nut on UPSIDE DOWN for buttons 2, 4, 6.  This is actually a pretty neat way to get the buttons as close as possible.

Oh man!

I completely missed this the first time I skimmed through the thread.  Awesome solution to a fairly common problem.  Please post this in the main forum under a new topic ("How to get minimum button spacing!" or sth), so others that don't frequent Project Announcements don't miss out.

[Tiger-Heli]

Well, what are your opinions?

First off, I like it a LOT better!!!

I have basically three main concerns.  I'll start with the negative ideas first.

Everything is a tradeoff, but Frosty's and your previous layout could be used for Smash TV/Robotron. (kinda).  You had a msg earlier in the thread with a layout that would probably work better for Robotron.  mvp_Robotron_Fighter.gif in Reply#10, but I'm not sure if you decided to build this or not.  If this is still in the works, I think it is better for Robotron, meaning it won't matter if the Ikari/Tron panel doesn't work for it.

Second - The new layout looks great for Ikari, Tron, tank games, and spinner games.  One suggestion is to add at least one thumb button on the left Tron Stick.  (I think Vindicators and maybe some of the other tank games could use this).  No-One = NBA had a suggestion in 1Up's Tron stick thread for some Radio Shack buttons which could save you some money over the Happs buttons, if you aren't buying new components from 1Up.  I don't think you need to add a second thumb button (it's not in your plans, but maybe it should be).  I think Xenophobe used this, but IMHO, it could be played better with the Ikari buttons.  One thing that you COULD use dual thumb buttons for would be the rotation switches in Xybots.  Give it some thought and do what you want.

The last thing is just for general info - The 49-way sticks work fine for Tron.  They are designed so that in 4-way mode they will register the diagonals if you hit them exactly.  I was considering a simpler and cheaper option for playing Tron when I was looking at my assault panel.  I.e. you could use either Omni-Stiks, Prodigies, or some other 4 and 8-way sticks with a similar throw in each mode or easy mode switching.  Use them for Tank games, and for Tron: Map MAME so either stick can be used - Set the left stick up as 4-way and the right as 8-way.  Then the left stick becomes the light-cycle and tanks stick and the right stick becomes the light tower and bugs stick.  Just a way for others to possibly save money.

[markrvp]

Just a way for others to possibly save money.

Yea, this one control panel is 2 or 3 times more expensive than my entire 4 player Frankenpanel.  Happ Supers are starting to look real nice.

Thank you for the comments.  I ordered the Tron sticks complete from 1up with 1 Happ thumbswitch (which was very expensive).  When they get here, I'll add another Radioshack switch.

Just for clarification, are you saying to add one thumbswitch to the left Tron stick AND a second thumbswitch button to the right Tron stick?

[Tiger-Heli]

Thank you for the comments.  I ordered the Tron sticks complete from 1up with 1 Happ thumbswitch (which was very expensive).  When they get here, I'll add another Radioshack switch.

Drats-wish I'd commented on this sooner - Reply #53 from 1Up in the Tron handle thread above:

"OK, if anyone wants to order with the Radio Shack buttons, just add $2.50 per button."

I think the Happ buttons were like $11.25 each for no apparent reason.

Just for clarification, are you saying to add one thumbswitch to the left Tron stick AND a second thumbswitch button to the right Tron stick?

First off, it's your panel.  If you just play Tron and Battlzone on it than it doesn't matter.  But I think there were some tank type games (like Vindicators) that needed dual triggers and dual thumb buttons.

So I was definitely recommending a thumb button on the left Tron stick.

And I was actually saying to consider a second thumb button on BOTH the left and right Tron sticks.  (But I was also having a brain fade and forgot that XYBOTS used 1/4-turn rotary switches, but did NOT use Trigger Sticks, so you can probably play it better with the SNK's than the Tron sticks.)

BTW, this thread got long, but were you actually using SNK's?  If not, I thought you were a big fan of Fl0yd's adapter which meant you could play IKARI on one of your main panels and not worry about it on this one.

I might be confused (again), though.

[markrvp]

BTW, this thread got long, but were you actually using SNK's?

[Tiger-Heli]

I do have two SNK LS-30s that will go in this panel.  I bought them new for $59 each from VideoConnect.  On the first single player panel I completed I'm adding the Fl0yd's adapter to that 49-way (ordered it last night).  That panel will be the one I play for myself at home as a desktop controller, and the other panels go on my cabinet.  This Hobby has gotten expensive (as most do).

Okay, that makes sense.

BTW, if you see an auction on Ebay for a cheap computer that can run MAME, please let me know, as I can add that to Ryan's Minipacman cabinet later on.

There's this one, but no telling how high it will go.  I'm not a big fan of E-bay for this.  I would suggest:

Post a WTB in the buy/sell/trade forum.  Someone else's "too slow" machine is probably your just right.

Listen and ask around the office or relatives - chances are someone is upgrading and doesn't need the old one.

Get PaigeOliver to find you one (j/k).

Mom-and-Pop computers stores will sometimes have good deals.

Flea Markets or Garage sales.

If you stay in the hobby long enough, you'll be able to build one out of parts you upgraded or replaced thinking they were bad when they weren't.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51121&item=5197514424&rd=1

[markrvp]

Quick update. I added the rotary adapter from Fl0yd to my 49-way joystick.

It took about 2 hours to get this wired up (I'm not very fast).

[rchadd]

The trackball can be used for Centipede, World Class Bowling, Shuuz, and Golden Tee Golf.

dont forget Shuffleshot (its my favorite!)

[timjpriebe]

I just have to chime in and say awesome CP, Mark. I'm definitely now making my next cab so that I can swap out the CP and make new ones.

[markrvp]

I just have to chime in and say awesome CP, Mark. I'm definitely now making my next cab so that I can swap out the CP and make new ones.

Thank you very much!

dont forget Shuffleshot (its my favorite!)

Awesomely fun game . . . . Awwww Heyyyyy!

[Flinkly]

so how does the rotary addition affect the regular joystick play of the 49-way? 

[markrvp]

so how does the rotary addition affect the regular joystick play of the 49-way?

[Tiger-Heli]

so how does the rotary addition affect the regular joystick play of the 49-way? 

It doesn't seem to affect it at all, EXCEPT when you push the joystick down ALL THE WAY diagonally towards the stabilizer screw.  It binds a tiny bit.  This doesn't seem to be an issue, though, because I find with the 49-way joystick I rarely push the joystick all the way to the edges.

Still got those P360s?

That MIGHT cause problems in Tron then - Tron was set to use 4-way mode with the extreme diagonals still registering, which sounds like where the problem is occuring.