Author Topic: Mark's Multipanel Project (Read 21642 times)

markrvp · « **on:** April 26, 2005, 11:14:27 pm »

I found BYOAC in January and got hooked.

markrvp · « **Reply #1 on:** April 26, 2005, 11:16:26 pm »

Unfortunately, I didn't stop buying parts once the cabinet was complete. Here is what I have left over THAT DIDN'T FIT ON THE FRANKENPANEL.

markrvp · « **Reply #2 on:** April 26, 2005, 11:30:44 pm »

At first, I came up with a couple of add-on options that allowed me to set the Star Wars Yoke on top of the panel and also attach an Analog flighstick to the front of the panel, but both required more effort than it was worth and made the rest of the panel unplayable until they were removed.

markrvp · « **Reply #3 on:** April 26, 2005, 11:36:13 pm »

So now what to do? My solution is to use multiple interchangeable control panels, prompting the creation of this thread. From here on out I would like to share my thoughts on what panels to build, how they are layed out, and how best to wire and connect them. I will also share my thoughts on artwork and for people who are new to woodworking, try to give detailed instructions for setting-up and using tools (as I get lots of e-mails on how I do these things).

I want to encourage everyone who is nice enough to follow along on this project to give me your feedback, and point out where I can do things better.

markrvp · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2005, 11:46:24 pm »

Here are my thoughts as of today on what panels I need to build.

markrvp · « **Reply #5 on:** April 26, 2005, 11:55:03 pm »

I looked at several arcade cabinets for inspiration for the new CP design. The panel would need to support changing CP tops easily and also mesh with the existing cabinet. I quickly decided that the Mortal Kombat II CP box would be just right.

The measurements for the CP tops will be 27-3/8" wide by 14" tall. That should be plenty of room for controls to support 2 players.

markrvp · « **Reply #6 on:** April 27, 2005, 12:17:08 am »

Here is the diagram of the CP box.

markrvp · « **Reply #7 on:** April 27, 2005, 12:46:48 am »

The first CP panel I will build is dubbed the "LAZY" panel as I will probably be too lazy to take this panel off very often.

The LAZY panel is an Alternating Player multipanel which will be great for single & dual player games like Pacman, Donkeykong, and many of the other classics. I have layed the controls out generically enough to play games like Missile Command, Robotron, and anything else that doesn't require a rotational joystick or something extra special.

The primary joystick is a Happ's 49-way using a Groovy Game Gear GP-Wiz 49 encoder. The other joystick will be a WICO 8-way leafswitch joy. My thinking on this is that the 49-way can be used 4 way, 8 way and for Qbert style diagonals. The Wico is there because that joystick works very well for shooting in Robotron and Smash TV. I am also a big fan of Crazy Climber which is well suited to this panel.

The trackball can be used for Centipede, World Class Bowling, Shuuz, and Golden Tee Golf.

I have 7 buttons which should cover most any game, plus I really like having the mouse left and right buttons for this reason: WC Bowling and Golden Tee Golf both had one button on either side of the trackball for turning left & right (or adding hook to the bowling ball).

I realize most enthusiasts here are diametrically opposed to having admin buttons on the control panel and I agree for all the other panels I will build. HOWEVER, I plan to use this panel to play test all new games and a lot of times I like to TAB into the config menus and custom set game controls. So, to make it easy on myself, I added ADMIN buttons for TAB, ENTER, ESC, F2 (advance), F3 (reset), and PAUSE. This panel will also eventually end up on my computer at home as a desktop controller.

This panel will be easy to swap between computers as the GP-Wiz 49 encoder is USB Hot-Swappable and the trackball uses a USB MOUSE HACK.

markrvp · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2005, 01:44:06 am »

One of my favorite cabinets is Frostillicus (Thomas Van Horn) rotating panel cabinet. One of his panels has two LS-30 mechanical rotational joysticks and two topfire joysticks. I want to build a similar panel, but instead of the Happ topfire joysticks I am going to use two TRON style joysticks for playing tank games like ASSAULT & BATTLEZONE.

Here is Frostillicus' cabinet & the panel I am talking about.

markrvp · « **Reply #9 on:** April 27, 2005, 01:50:33 am »

I love this panel and think the artwork is topnotch.

markrvp · « **Reply #10 on:** April 27, 2005, 02:47:48 am »

The fighter panel is pretty straight forward. I like Frostillicus' artwork here again, and I found where he had graciously donated the character art to the arcade art library at http://www.localarcade.com/4images/.

There will be two 8 way joysticks with 7 buttons each. I have some major decisions to make on this panel. One of which can't be decided until I figure out if I want to add 2 more joysticks to this panel so it can also be used for Robotron & Smash TV. Please help me figure this one out.

Concern 1: What joysticks to use? I don't think there is any need to put 49-ways the GP-Wiz 49 way adapters here as the joys only need to be 8-way. I have HAPP Competitions on my current 4 player panel, but I don't really like those. I hate the 8 way on the X-arcade controller I have, so I think I probably wouldn't be too crazy about HAPP Supers either. I absolutely do not like T-Sticks. That narrows it down to: Perfect 360s (expensive), Wico 8-ways, or Sanwa 8 ways. The Sanwas may be a good fit here as their square restrictor may make hitting diagonals easier. But what about FIREBALL moves which require a half circle. The Wicos might really be better for that, and they are certainly the first choice for the second joystick in Robotron. Would Robotron feel really weird if you had different joysticks in each hand? Do they both need to be identical?

Perfect 360s are about $45 each. Right now I can get 49-ways for $24.95 each and two GP-Wiz 49way Eco encoders for $20 each. That makes the price of working 49ways the same as a working Perfect 360. And the GP-Wiz 49 would also serve as the encoder for the buttons. Hmmmm. I guess I really need to play test the 49way in Fighter games to see how well they work compared to the Sanwa and Wico. Does anybody have any experience with both the Perfect 360 and the 49-way to compare?

Concern 2: How should I layout the buttons? I have already ordered the Sanwa style buttons that should fire faster than Happ Horizontals. Pixelhugger has a unique layout for buttons on his control panel that looks like your forearms come into the panel at 45 degrees and makes the buttons be right next to the joystick. That would probably be good if I add the 2nd joysticks for Robotron. Or, do I stay with a more traditional layout?

Here are the layout considerations below:

markrvp · « **Reply #11 on:** April 27, 2005, 02:49:16 am »

And the Fighter Panel Mockup with artwork copied heavily from Frostillicus.

ferrarimanf355 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 27, 2005, 11:14:34 am »

I actually like the 4-player panel. I probably would remove a few buttons and move a few more, and get rid of the 4-way stick and probably the Tron stick, but I think it's good. Can I have the plans?

Flinkly · « **Reply #13 on:** April 27, 2005, 12:10:04 pm »

awesome...i hope to create a thread like this some day.

Dire Radiant · « **Reply #14 on:** April 27, 2005, 01:49:41 pm »

Sweet! I'll be interested to see how you pull off the positional gun panel.

mhermann · « **Reply #15 on:** April 27, 2005, 05:13:35 pm »

Wow, information overload in this thread. I like your idea of swapping out CP's. I am also trying to think of ways to have my cake and eat it too.

How do you like the 49 ways? I am thinking of building a 4 player with these. My thinking is that I will get 4, 8 and 49 all in one. Everything I have read says that it personal preference so I will most likely just have to try it myself.

Keep up the good work. I am interested in seeing what you decide.

Buddabing · « **Reply #16 on:** April 27, 2005, 07:02:45 pm »

Think about a simple panel for classics. I've put a lot of thought into my three panels:

Panel 1: One joystick, three buttons and a trackball, arranged thus:

JS B B B TB

This will let you play a huge number of games, plus it is simple so that your guests will understand it and you have correct button placement for Missile Command. (important to me)

Panel 2: 2 player 7-button fighter, a la HotRod SE.

JS B B B JS B B B
B B B B B B
B B

Don't put the joysticks too far apart as this will be the panel you'll play Robotron on.

Panel 3: This is interesting. 6 buttons in a cross between Defender and Star Trek. This is important since I love those two classics. One 2-way Defender joystick, a spinner, a flight stick (Tron=important).

JS SP B B FS
B B
B B

This will save you some wiring. These three panels use a lot fewer controls than Frosty's and can play more games with correct control spacing.

But I would keep the frankenpanel, it looks fine.

markrvp · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2005, 01:13:05 am »

Buddabing - I like your thinking alot. Well thought out.

Everyone who has commented so far - thanks for the feedback. If nobody chimed in, I would feel like I was talking to myself (I'm so tired of the voices, THE VOICES!!!)

I spent tonight building my single player config panel. I have decided to start another thread that is STEP BY STEP CONSTRUCTION AND INSTRUCTION. The old-timers can skip that thread, but for anyone who wants to know how to build this stuff, it will be all the information you could ever ask for (I hope).

I want to keep this thread ideas and theory; the other thread will be how I did it.

jfunk · « **Reply #18 on:** April 29, 2005, 12:40:28 am »

OK, so now for the main question in my mind.. How are you going to 'easily' swap the panels? This is where I'm stuck..

I'd thought about having bolts through the hinges on the cp box, but that takes a while..? I've thought about dowel (sp?) rods and velcro.. But nothing seems 'right'...

Looking forward to what you come up with

markrvp · « **Reply #19 on:** April 29, 2005, 01:08:04 am »

That's the $64,000 question. I am starting out with a dowel rod system. We'll see how it works. I could really use some input here.

I've got 120 images documenting construction so far. I hope by Monday to have the other thread up with the first box and panel complete.

markrvp · « **Reply #20 on:** April 29, 2005, 01:26:04 am »

This is really a test of remote image hosting. I'll delete this post when the new thread goes up.

A few examples of my construction pics:

PoDunkMoFo · « **Reply #21 on:** April 29, 2005, 01:40:03 am »

Hello,

This is my plan for easy swap.

I was thinking of using the swapable IDE hard drive bays (2) like this;

http://www.amamax.com/amamax/hdspecialimoblerack.html

One would be mounted so that the wiring on the controls were on one
side and the encoder would be on the other (inside the cabinet)

The other would house an actual hard drive so that the computer would boot
to a FE shell with MAME and only the games that the control panel was designed
for.

I plan on making the control panels with some kind of alignment built in so that the
plugs would line up every time.

I plan to build two cabs - Horizontal (Joust Style) & Vertical (Midway - Pacman Style)

Sounds pretty pie in the sky but that's my plan.

markrvp · « **Reply #22 on:** April 29, 2005, 02:10:15 am »

Quote

The other would house an actual hard drive so that the computer would boot
to a FE shell with MAME and only the games that the control panel was designed
for.

Sounds neat. Would each control panel, then, have it's own hard drive with the OS, FE Shell, and Specific Romset?

PoDunkMoFo · « **Reply #23 on:** April 29, 2005, 11:07:01 am »

Yes,

That is the exact plan. I figure i've got a bunch of smaller 20 gig or so (LMAO
hearing me say 20 gigs is small). Each panel would get it's own hard drive
mounted on the panel

The only thing Im' not sure of is if I use the control panel in two different cabs
how to show different games for that particular cab. Maybe the cab has a hard drive with the OS and on boot is directed to autorun the FE from the panel hard drive. That way the Horizontal cab can point do a different directory or partition on the panel hard drive than the Vertical cab does.

Should be interesting trying to work it all out.

Flinkly · « **Reply #24 on:** April 29, 2005, 12:58:21 pm »

too complicated. i'm just using the same things regular cabs did, panel clamps. i figure i'll need two or four per panel to hold it down tight. bad thing is that most people sell them for 10 bucks.

markrvp · « **Reply #25 on:** April 29, 2005, 02:26:59 pm »

I am using panel clamps to hold the CP BOX to the cab. Are you using a second set of clamps to hold the panel top to the box? Is your CP box open on the bottom on just the part hidden by the cabinet base? The reason I ask is because my original design called for a completetly enclosed box except for the hole that the cables come out to go to the computer. I have diagrammed what I understand you are saying below.

Here the CP box is open on the bottom where the white X's are. There is one set of clamps to hold the box to the cabinet and another set holding the interchangeable panel top to the box.

Is this right?

namedos · « **Reply #26 on:** April 29, 2005, 04:06:23 pm »

Mark,

I am going with a similar setup. On the control panel I used a piano hinge on the front side and friction hinges on the sides to hold it open. This gives me accessability if I need it and it doesn't move around at all. The bottom of my control panel is solid. I have two clamps purchased but not installed as I haven't quite figured out how to install the clamps.

My IPAC is mounted inside of my control panel. The IPAC connection, spinner connection and trackball connection are all USB. I have perfect 360's which need power. So, when it comes time to swap out a panel I will unplug all four items and put the new control panel on. It could be done easier but I don't think I will be switching panels that often.

Your thread is very good and I also like the work you've done. For myself I've been working on setting up my own website. I plan to heavily document it to hopefully help some folks out. I have a lot of it written but I haven't been able to upload it to my ISP's weblink yet.

Good luck and keep going with the thread as it is nice to hear the thought process behind some of the design decisions.

You've done some very nice work so far

Flinkly · « **Reply #27 on:** April 29, 2005, 10:08:35 pm »

yeah, i just have panel's that i switch out and put back in. on the back of the cab, i've got a door towards the bottom that flips open from the bottom, and little wooden guides where i slide the panels in for safe keeping. i store them two deep. so yeah, i use clamps on the panel itself, since i don't have a box on my cab like everyone else. i just reach in from the coin door and flip the clamps, and off the panel comes. under it i've got a vertical panel towards the back where i've drilled out holes and stuck female ends of molex connectors for all the appropriate interfaces. i'm trying to think of a way to keep them seperate, and i think colors might just be the only way. maybe fingernail polish.

back when i was a kid, my mom would stick fingernail polish on the bottoms of all my micromachines, and another color under my brothers. then we wouldn't fight as much about it. mom's are so smart. till you grow up i guess...but they still have their moments.

Dire Radiant · « **Reply #28 on:** April 30, 2005, 12:08:50 am »

heat shrink would look better

markrvp · « **Reply #29 on:** May 03, 2005, 04:02:36 am »

Okay, this isn't wired up yet, but I've been working on documenting this build for the construction thread for 3 days (over 200 how-to pics) and I couldn't wait to share it.

I'll have better pics tomorrow (it's 3am right now).

monkeyButt · « **Reply #30 on:** May 03, 2005, 07:52:44 am »

swappable control panels - here's what i did. i used anchors and socket head screws. by countersinking the screws, they be level with the control panel surface (and visible), but i like the look and feel of it. i think that with dark artwork, it'd look pretty good.

pic of a screw in the anchor - no control panel

the finished product - 3 across the top, 3 across the bottom, and some smudges to boot.

Pixelhugger · « **Reply #31 on:** May 04, 2005, 12:18:03 am »

That looks fantastic Mark. Nice clean design, and I love the blue and black buttons. Very cool.

markrvp · « **Reply #32 on:** May 04, 2005, 01:41:38 am »

Looks good, MonkeyButt.

Quote from: Pixelhugger on May 04, 2005, 12:18:03 am

That looks fantastic Mark. Nice clean design, and I love the blue and black buttons. Very cool.

Thanks PH. The Black & Blue buttons was inspired completely by your project. I liked the look of your black buttons on the blue graphics. My background is so busy, I thought the black might get lost, so I did the black outline to set off the blue buttons.

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #33 on:** May 04, 2005, 03:43:42 am »

Quote from: markrvp on April 26, 2005, 11:14:27 pm

What's that mame front-end your cab is using in the pic?

markrvp · « **Reply #34 on:** May 04, 2005, 04:53:48 am »

It's called Ultrastyle:

http://www.mameworld.net/ultrastyle/

Knievel · « **Reply #35 on:** May 04, 2005, 07:29:57 pm »

First one looks good Mark, how many more to go?

mhermann · « **Reply #36 on:** May 04, 2005, 08:41:13 pm »

Hey Mark, what is the size of your 4-playe CP? length and width?

Thanks

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #37 on:** May 04, 2005, 09:06:43 pm »

Quote from: markrvp on May 03, 2005, 04:02:36 am

Okay, this isn't wired up yet, but I've been working on documenting this build for the construction thread for 3 days (over 200 how-to pics) and I couldn't wait to share it.

I'll have better pics tomorrow (it's 3am right now). The box works well and I think this looks just terrific

Hey man, that is a sweet control panel overlay? Do you know where I could get that? Preferably in red? Thanks a bunch. I've seen that one before but I never could find where people got it.

I'd like to get it sans directional arrows and stuff, just straight-up background.

markrvp · « **Reply #38 on:** May 04, 2005, 10:35:34 pm »

Quote from: Knievel on May 04, 2005, 07:29:57 pm

First one looks good Mark, how many more to go?

Six to Eight depending on my stamina. I think I've eliminated one by combining controls. I need to play test the 49-way some more to see if I want to commit to those on everything, or if I want to stay conventional.

Quote from: mhermann on May 04, 2005, 08:41:13 pm

Hey Mark, what is the size of your 4-playe CP? length and width?

38.5" Wide by 16" Tall

Quote from: JonnyBoy on May 04, 2005, 09:06:43 pm

Quote from: markrvp on May 03, 2005, 04:02:36 am
Okay, this isn't wired up yet, but I've been working on documenting this build for the construction thread for 3 days (over 200 how-to pics) and I couldn't wait to share it.

I'll have better pics tomorrow (it's 3am right now). The box works well and I think this looks just terrific

Hey man, that is a sweet control panel overlay? Do you know where I could get that? Preferably in red? Thanks a bunch. I've seen that one before but I never could find where people got it.

I'd like to get it sans directional arrows and stuff, just straight-up background.

Another BYOAC'er (a really talented one) shared the source with me. Since it wasn't my idea and he was nice enough to share, I'll not post that info here. He is watching this thread and he may put that info up if he wants.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #39 on:** May 05, 2005, 07:11:23 am »

Okay, I understand. If he is willing to accept payment or anything I'd be willing to pay, I really like that graphic. Thanks.

markrvp · « **Reply #40 on:** May 05, 2005, 11:17:30 am »

Quote from: JonnyBoy on May 05, 2005, 07:11:23 am

Okay, I understand. If he is willing to accept payment or anything I'd be willing to pay, I really like that graphic. Thanks.

JohnnyBoy brings up a good subject for a quick Photoshop tip. If you like a graphic, but want to alter it's hue (color tint), here is how to do it in Photoshop.

Go to the IMAGE menu, and select HUE & SATURATION. You can drag the hue slider left or right to globally change the hue.

I took the image from this control panel and used this method to make it red. The shadows seemed a little dark, so I made a small curves adjustment.

markrvp · « **Reply #41 on:** May 05, 2005, 11:31:44 am »

I have the control panel completely wired up and fully operational.

markrvp · « **Reply #42 on:** May 05, 2005, 12:17:52 pm »

This panel is completetly hot-swappable and could be used with any computer with 2 open USB ports. Here are the controls:

- HAPP 49-WAY JOYSTICK
- WICO 8-way Leafswitch Joystick
- 7 Player 1 pushbuttons (Happ Concave with Horizontal Microswitch)
- 6 Admin buttons: Tab, F2 advance, F3 Reset, Enter, P pause, ESC (these will allow you to navigate through almost any FE and change any control configuration within MAME) All 7 buttons are Happ Concave with Horizontal Microswitch

All of these are wired to a GROOVY GAME GEAR GP-WIZ 49. This allows you to use a 49-way joystick in 49-way, 8-way, 4-way, 2-way, Q-bert diagonals, and a couple of other modes I'll never use. It also has 23 additional inputs for joysticks or buttons. I assigned the button codes in MAME, but I think I will use a utility like JOY TO KEY to make the buttons appear to the computer as keyboard presses. This will simplify the MAME config files I think.

I also have 3" Betson Imperial trackball that I got on the B/S/T forums for under 20 bucks. I don't like
this trackball as well as the HAPP on my 4p panel, but this trackball is still very nice. I have the Trackball and two mouse buttons attached to a USB mouse hack that I got from OSCAR CONTROLS.

markrvp · « **Reply #43 on:** May 05, 2005, 12:19:33 pm »

This wiring job is much nicer than on my first panel here:

markrvp · « **Reply #44 on:** May 05, 2005, 12:44:29 pm »

Here are my observations so far:

1.) The GP-Wiz 49 works differently than a keyboard encoder (Duh!) I don't like having to map joystick buttons to MAME functions. I definitely want to use JOYTOKEY or another program suggested by RandyT at GroovyGameGear to make the buttons appear to the computer as keyboard keystrokes. I am also getting some weird stuff in games that use a trackball. I am pretty sure this is because with joystick enabled, the games are mapped to use either the trackball or the joystick. On one game I was able to correct this by mapping the analog axis controls to MOUSE only. But, another game wouldn't register the trackball movement when I tried this, so I may have to manually configure the .ini files (or config) for those games. WHAT A PITA. Somebody please pipe in on how to make this easier as this frustrates me and I consider it 1 strike against using keypad interfaces or gamepad hacks for games that don't need analog controls. Also, you need to configure your FrontEnd with a hotkey to bring up the joystick mode selector (or wire up the hotkey to do it manually on the fly - I think I will add the hotkey button).

2.) The 49-way joystick with the GP-Wiz 49 is a neat joystick for all-in-one joystick use. I have played Pacman in 4-way mode and this works great. Donkey Kong has been frustrating, because the joystick doesn't seem to return to center well. The result is that when you try and stop Mario from moving forward with the hammer, he keeps going and the barrel rolls under the hammer and you die. This problem may resolve itself over time when the grommet is broken in better. The throw of this joystick is longer than what I am used to, but you don't have to move the joystick to the edge to move. Very little pressure in the direction you want to go makes it go. If you are used to hitting a restrictor (like I am) then this takes some getting used to.

3.) WICO 8-WAY LEAFSWITCH JOYSTICKS ROCK!!!! I had Happ competition joys on my 4p panel and they are just okay. The Wico just kicks ass. Shooting in Robotron is incredibly easy.

4.) The Betson 3" trackball is pretty nice. I put GroovyGameGear encoder wheels on it which makes it work much better. Golden Tee worked well although I like the way the Happ ball keeps spinning after you hit it.

5.) I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE having the left and right mouse buttons where they are. This is very functional for games like Golden Tee Golf & World Championship Bowling where you need to turn left and right.

6.) I like having ADMIN buttons on this panel as I am having to do a lot of controls configuring in the MAME menus to work.

markrvp · « **Reply #45 on:** May 05, 2005, 12:52:37 pm »

If you have never seen the inside of your trackball, or are curious about the Groovy Game Gear encoder wheel upgrade for Betson Imperial Trackballs, here are a couple of pics. The first pic is a comparison between the standard encoder wheel and the GGG upgrade. The second pic is of both upgrade wheels installed.

markrvp · « **Reply #46 on:** May 05, 2005, 12:54:51 pm »

Before moving the CP box to my arcade cabinet, I tested the controls on my laptop. This made troubleshooting easier. I found that the X & Y axes on my trackball moved in reverse, so I had to make a quick 4 wire switch and everything worked perfectly.

markrvp · « **Reply #47 on:** May 05, 2005, 02:13:59 pm »

Okay, the proof is in the pudding.

markrvp · « **Reply #48 on:** May 05, 2005, 02:14:33 pm »

Final shot of the new box on the cab.

Flinkly · « **Reply #49 on:** May 05, 2005, 06:09:02 pm »

is that an instrution card on your wall? now that's a new place for those...

as for the panel, it looks alot better than your franken. except the buttons spacing, but if you like it, then who cares what i think. good luck on the next ten boards.

JonnyBoy · « **Reply #50 on:** May 05, 2005, 09:26:18 pm »

Both the CP and the cabinet look rad. And damn does that overlay look nice in red *hints to whoever made it*

Dire Radiant · « **Reply #51 on:** May 06, 2005, 10:13:29 am »

Looks great Mark. I have an aversion to huge panels and that one is a very neat and elegant solution. I especially like the blue/black buttons. Very distinctive touch. Now that you've decided you love the Wico leaf sticks are you going to replace the other one with a Wico? It would really bring the asthetics of the whole thing together.

markrvp · « **Reply #52 on:** May 06, 2005, 11:06:29 am »

Quote from: Dire Radiant on May 06, 2005, 10:13:29 am

Now that you've decided you love the Wico leaf sticks are you going to replace the other one with a Wico? It would really bring the asthetics of the whole thing together.

I want to replace the 49-way handle with a matching balltop. I'm just waiting for Randy at GGG to get them ready. I still like having the 49-way in this panel so that I can play 4-way games & Q-bert without having to add another stick.

On my Robotron panel it will definitely be two Wico 8-ways with shiny red balltops!

cholin · « **Reply #53 on:** May 06, 2005, 12:02:50 pm »

Yeah Ive seen it before too, loved it! I think it really looks nice and it really makes any blue theme complete. If the source comes out....

Knievel · « **Reply #54 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:48:52 pm »

That CP looks great on there Mark, fits in really nice.
If you're changing the rest of your art to match I've got a sideart I just did that might intrest you.
Had it printed on adhesive vinyl and it came out beautifully. Of course you'd probably wanna change the text

markrvp · « **Reply #55 on:** May 06, 2005, 03:23:27 pm »

Quote from: Knievel on May 06, 2005, 02:48:52 pm

That CP looks great on there Mark, fits in really nice.
If you're changing the rest of your art to match I've got a sideart I just did that might intrest you.
Had it printed on adhesive vinyl and it came out beautifully. Of course you'd probably wanna change the text

I love it! Is this one 12" with a Neon Tube?

How's this:

Knievel · « **Reply #56 on:** May 06, 2005, 04:32:14 pm »

No Mark I just did this one. The one with the neon is a slightly altered version of Pixel's Atomic logo.
That looks pretty good, I would suggest a nice blue glow behind the S to give it some *punch*

markrvp · « **Reply #57 on:** May 06, 2005, 07:11:04 pm »

Quote from: Knievel on May 06, 2005, 04:32:14 pm

No Mark I just did this one. The one with the neon is a slightly altered version of Pixel's Atomic logo.
That looks pretty good, I would suggest a nice blue glow behind the S to give it some *punch*

I meant was the diameter 12" (30.5 cm) for use with a neon speaker tube?

Your colors seem to glow more than mine. Did you increase the saturation?

I'll add the glow behind the logo. Like a dummy I flattened the image before I saved it, so I'll recreate it.

Knievel · « **Reply #58 on:** May 06, 2005, 09:01:18 pm »

This one's a little bigger, 13" overall. That was just a small low-res file I posted. I'll send you the photoshop file minus the text and you can play with it.

Yes I always up the saturation, looks better when printed.

markrvp · « **Reply #59 on:** May 09, 2005, 01:32:21 am »

I'm pretty sure I've decided to take the Ipac4 out of my 4 player Frankenpanel and mount it permanently in the cabinet itself. This serves a couple of purposes.

1. I won't have to have a separate keyboard or gamepad encoder for each panel, I'll just use quick disconnect connectors.

2. I can permanently mount & wire the coin & start buttons to the cabinet.

I am going to mount the coin & start buttons between the monitor and control panel. There will be big red lighted button in the middle that is wired to ESCAPE to exit games. There will also be lighted blue buttons for SELECT GAME (actually wired to P1 start for FE selection) and PAUSE (only to balance the layout - 2 buttons on either side of big red button).

Here is the artwork. Any suggestions on how or if I should do this differently?

Joystick Jerk · « **Reply #60 on:** May 09, 2005, 07:17:51 am »

Are you going to have any admin buttons on the main CP, or just those few on the seperate player panel? If you're going to put them all in the player panel, another idea would be to take out the three middle buttons, and replace them with a selection of volcano buttons(I like your design, this is just an alternate idea that sprang to mind... also assuming you can get your hands on some volcanos). If you could get volcanos with blue buttons, that would really look great with your theme!:

From this:

To this:

markrvp · « **Reply #61 on:** May 09, 2005, 12:21:53 pm »

Joystick Jerk:

THAT LOOKS REALLY COOL.

I've already got the big red button. On the main cab that my kids and their friends play, I'm going to keep other admin buttons off.

BUT . . . I'm going to build another cab and I think I will definitely set it up like that. I just bought 3 Volcano buttons (not cheap, like $23 each with cones). I may set those aside and buy 3 more and use them like that.

THANKS A LOT FOR THE SUGGESTION! I read on another post that you are a graphic artist? Would you consider doing some CP art later on?

markrvp · « **Reply #62 on:** May 09, 2005, 02:27:02 pm »

Here is the latest addition to the controls I need to put in a panel.

Initial thoughts are to put this on a panel with the Star Wars Yoke and a throttle. Yoke on the left, Analog Stick on the right, throttle in the middle.

Now, what do I use for a throttle?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #63 on:** May 12, 2005, 04:06:06 pm »

Got to this thread late, but . . .

Mark - Looking great so far - a couple of comments -

The ikari panel - I would think the player 2 buttons would be awkward for Ikari, but swapping the joysticks would be awkward for Assault. Frosty did it the way you did - AFAIK, none of these games used more than 3 buttons, perhaps you could add buttons on the outsides, but that might kill the symmetry.

Also - as much as possible, I would try to combine controls into as few panels as possible. I know I kind of pioneered (somewhat) the modular panels thing, but I also knew there will end up being times when I would play a game that the current panel supported just to avoid having to swap them over. The more you can avoid this, the better. (Then again the more sensitive you are to PROPER controls - leafs for Robotron, for example - the harder this is to achieve.)

Quote from: markrvp on May 05, 2005, 12:44:29 pm

1.) The GP-Wiz 49 works differently than a keyboard encoder (Duh!) I don't like having to map joystick buttons to MAME functions. I definitely want to use JOYTOKEY or another program suggested by RandyT at GroovyGameGear to make the buttons appear to the computer as keyboard keystrokes.

Interesting - I'm not sure that I would recommend a middle-ware program if it wasn't required. RBJoy would be the other program.

Quote

I am also getting some weird stuff in games that use a trackball. I am pretty sure this is because with joystick enabled, the games are mapped to use either the trackball or the joystick. On one game I was able to correct this by mapping the analog axis controls to MOUSE only. But, another game wouldn't register the trackball movement when I tried this, so I may have to manually configure the .ini files (or config) for those games.

I think I had a similar problem that I got around by turning off Analog joystick support, but then you probably can't use your buttons. I would E-mail RandyT and see if he has run into this or has any suggestions.

Quote

Also, you need to configure your FrontEnd with a hotkey to bring up the joystick mode selector (or wire up the hotkey to do it manually on the fly - I think I will add the hotkey button).

What you NEED to do is find a way for your frontend to parse controls.dat and launch the GP-Wiz software in the correct mode before starting the game. That will eventually happen, but I'm not the one to ask about doing it.

Quote

Donkey Kong has been frustrating, because the joystick doesn't seem to return to center well. The result is that when you try and stop Mario from moving forward with the hammer, he keeps going and the barrel rolls under the hammer and you die. This problem may resolve itself over time when the grommet is broken in better.

The general consensus seems to be that that will go away when it gets broken in.

Quote

6.) I like having ADMIN buttons on this panel as I am having to do a lot of controls configuring in the MAME menus to work.

Agreed although for me with a desktop panel I have pretty easy access to a keyboard. For a cab, I would think a wireless keyboard would be a good option.

markrvp · « **Reply #64 on:** May 12, 2005, 04:30:46 pm »

I would like to publicly thank Tiger-Heli for weighing in on this project. It was Tiger-Heli's article on multipanels ( http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli ) over on Mameworld.net that originally inspired me to try this.

TH (is it okay if I call you TH?):

Having the analog joystick active is what is causing the problems with the Trackball as you suspected. Since all of the games I am playing with the GP-WIZ 49way joystick use digital inputs for joystick directions, do you know if JOYtoKEY also translates the joystick directions into keyboard strokes (like left arrow, right arrow)? I have tried this program and it works pretty well on the buttons, but I didn't try to map the joystick movements yet. Also, I loaded up RBJoy, but it was at 3 in the morning and it wasn't apparent how to map the modifier keys like CTL, ALT, SPACE.

I'll also e-mail Randy and see what he says on the Analog control being active.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #65 on:** May 12, 2005, 04:34:23 pm »

>TH (is it okay if I call you TH?):

Call me anything but "late for dinner". Just kidding (or not), but TH is fine. Don't know the answer to the rest of your post, though.

markrvp · « **Reply #66 on:** May 14, 2005, 01:54:06 am »

Tiger-Heli voiced a concern that I have had over the controls placement for the Ikari Warriors panel (mechanical rotary). I have modified my design to combine that panel with the Tron panel. I think both can be played easily on this panel design.

There are two Tron trigger grip handles. The one on the right will also have a thumbswitch. The joystick bases will be the 49-ways hooked to GP-Wiz 49s. All other controls will be wired to the GP-Wiz 49s. I have also added my Push/Pull spinner in-line with these. The right-side Tron handle will always be the primary handle for single joystick games like Tron. The thumbswitch makes it possible to authentically play Discs of Tron.

The LS-30 joystick & button layout for Player 1 & Player 2 is now identical.

Well, what are your opinions?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #67 on:** May 14, 2005, 09:05:20 am »

Quote from: markrvp on May 05, 2005, 11:31:44 am

Following are some images of the wiring and control placement. One thing to note is how close the player one 1-6 buttons are. When I made the layout, I accounted for the width of the button lip, but the lock nut underneath is wider than the lip. OH S#/T! Not to worry, let's just alternate the nut orientation. I put the lock nut on normally for buttons 1, 3, 5 and then put the lock nut on UPSIDE DOWN for buttons 2, 4, 6. This is actually a pretty neat way to get the buttons as close as possible.

Oh man!

I completely missed this the first time I skimmed through the thread. Awesome solution to a fairly common problem. Please post this in the main forum under a new topic ("How to get minimum button spacing!" or sth), so others that don't frequent Project Announcements don't miss out.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #68 on:** May 14, 2005, 09:37:20 am »

Quote from: markrvp on May 14, 2005, 01:54:06 am

Well, what are your opinions?

First off, I like it a LOT better!!!

I have basically three main concerns. I'll start with the negative ideas first.

Everything is a tradeoff, but Frosty's and your previous layout could be used for Smash TV/Robotron. (kinda). You had a msg earlier in the thread with a layout that would probably work better for Robotron. mvp_Robotron_Fighter.gif in Reply#10, but I'm not sure if you decided to build this or not. If this is still in the works, I think it is better for Robotron, meaning it won't matter if the Ikari/Tron panel doesn't work for it.

Second - The new layout looks great for Ikari, Tron, tank games, and spinner games. One suggestion is to add at least one thumb button on the left Tron Stick. (I think Vindicators and maybe some of the other tank games could use this). No-One = NBA had a suggestion in 1Up's Tron stick thread for some Radio Shack buttons which could save you some money over the Happs buttons, if you aren't buying new components from 1Up. I don't think you need to add a second thumb button (it's not in your plans, but maybe it should be). I think Xenophobe used this, but IMHO, it could be played better with the Ikari buttons. One thing that you COULD use dual thumb buttons for would be the rotation switches in Xybots. Give it some thought and do what you want.

The last thing is just for general info - The 49-way sticks work fine for Tron. They are designed so that in 4-way mode they will register the diagonals if you hit them exactly. I was considering a simpler and cheaper option for playing Tron when I was looking at my assault panel. I.e. you could use either Omni-Stiks, Prodigies, or some other 4 and 8-way sticks with a similar throw in each mode or easy mode switching. Use them for Tank games, and for Tron: Map MAME so either stick can be used - Set the left stick up as 4-way and the right as 8-way. Then the left stick becomes the light-cycle and tanks stick and the right stick becomes the light tower and bugs stick. Just a way for others to possibly save money.

markrvp · « **Reply #69 on:** May 14, 2005, 11:08:55 am »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on May 14, 2005, 09:37:20 am

Just a way for others to possibly save money.

Yea, this one control panel is 2 or 3 times more expensive than my entire 4 player Frankenpanel. Happ Supers are starting to look real nice.

Thank you for the comments. I ordered the Tron sticks complete from 1up with 1 Happ thumbswitch (which was very expensive). When they get here, I'll add another Radioshack switch.

Just for clarification, are you saying to add one thumbswitch to the left Tron stick AND a second thumbswitch button to the right Tron stick?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #70 on:** May 14, 2005, 12:31:07 pm »

Quote from: markrvp on May 14, 2005, 11:08:55 am

Thank you for the comments. I ordered the Tron sticks complete from 1up with 1 Happ thumbswitch (which was very expensive). When they get here, I'll add another Radioshack switch.

Drats-wish I'd commented on this sooner - Reply #53 from 1Up in the Tron handle thread above:

"OK, if anyone wants to order with the Radio Shack buttons, just add $2.50 per button."

I think the Happ buttons were like $11.25 each for no apparent reason.

Quote

Just for clarification, are you saying to add one thumbswitch to the left Tron stick AND a second thumbswitch button to the right Tron stick?

First off, it's your panel. If you just play Tron and Battlzone on it than it doesn't matter. But I think there were some tank type games (like Vindicators) that needed dual triggers and dual thumb buttons.

So I was definitely recommending a thumb button on the left Tron stick.

And I was actually saying to consider a second thumb button on BOTH the left and right Tron sticks. (But I was also having a brain fade and forgot that XYBOTS used 1/4-turn rotary switches, but did NOT use Trigger Sticks, so you can probably play it better with the SNK's than the Tron sticks.)

BTW, this thread got long, but were you actually using SNK's? If not, I thought you were a big fan of Fl0yd's adapter which meant you could play IKARI on one of your main panels and not worry about it on this one.

I might be confused (again), though.

markrvp · « **Reply #71 on:** May 14, 2005, 01:06:03 pm »

Quote from: Tiger-Heli on May 14, 2005, 12:31:07 pm

BTW, this thread got long, but were you actually using SNK's?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #72 on:** May 14, 2005, 03:42:23 pm »

Quote from: markrvp on May 14, 2005, 01:06:03 pm

I do have two SNK LS-30s that will go in this panel. I bought them new for $59 each from VideoConnect. On the first single player panel I completed I'm adding the Fl0yd's adapter to that 49-way (ordered it last night). That panel will be the one I play for myself at home as a desktop controller, and the other panels go on my cabinet. This Hobby has gotten expensive (as most do).

Okay, that makes sense.

Quote

BTW, if you see an auction on Ebay for a cheap computer that can run MAME, please let me know, as I can add that to Ryan's Minipacman cabinet later on.

There's this one, but no telling how high it will go. I'm not a big fan of E-bay for this. I would suggest:

Post a WTB in the buy/sell/trade forum. Someone else's "too slow" machine is probably your just right.

Listen and ask around the office or relatives - chances are someone is upgrading and doesn't need the old one.

Get PaigeOliver to find you one (j/k).

Mom-and-Pop computers stores will sometimes have good deals.

Flea Markets or Garage sales.

If you stay in the hobby long enough, you'll be able to build one out of parts you upgraded or replaced thinking they were bad when they weren't.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=51121&item=5197514424&rd=1

markrvp · « **Reply #73 on:** May 17, 2005, 04:16:39 am »

Quick update. I added the rotary adapter from Fl0yd to my 49-way joystick.

It took about 2 hours to get this wired up (I'm not very fast).

rchadd · « **Reply #74 on:** May 17, 2005, 07:08:04 am »

Quote from: markrvp on April 27, 2005, 12:46:48 am

The trackball can be used for Centipede, World Class Bowling, Shuuz, and Golden Tee Golf.

dont forget Shuffleshot (its my favorite!)

timjpriebe · « **Reply #75 on:** May 17, 2005, 07:59:40 am »

I just have to chime in and say awesome CP, Mark. I'm definitely now making my next cab so that I can swap out the CP and make new ones.

markrvp · « **Reply #76 on:** May 17, 2005, 12:39:32 pm »

Quote from: timjpriebe on May 17, 2005, 07:59:40 am

I just have to chime in and say awesome CP, Mark. I'm definitely now making my next cab so that I can swap out the CP and make new ones.

Thank you very much!

Quote from: rchadd on May 17, 2005, 07:08:04 am

dont forget Shuffleshot (its my favorite!)

Awesomely fun game . . . . Awwww Heyyyyy!

Flinkly · « **Reply #77 on:** May 18, 2005, 04:10:08 pm »

so how does the rotary addition affect the regular joystick play of the 49-way?

markrvp · « **Reply #78 on:** May 18, 2005, 05:51:47 pm »

Quote from: Flinkly on May 18, 2005, 04:10:08 pm

so how does the rotary addition affect the regular joystick play of the 49-way?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #79 on:** May 19, 2005, 06:29:29 am »

Quote from: markrvp on May 18, 2005, 05:51:47 pm

Quote from: Flinkly on May 18, 2005, 04:10:08 pm
so how does the rotary addition affect the regular joystick play of the 49-way?

It doesn't seem to affect it at all, EXCEPT when you push the joystick down ALL THE WAY diagonally towards the stabilizer screw. It binds a tiny bit. This doesn't seem to be an issue, though, because I find with the 49-way joystick I rarely push the joystick all the way to the edges.

Still got those P360s?

That MIGHT cause problems in Tron then - Tron was set to use 4-way mode with the extreme diagonals still registering, which sounds like where the problem is occuring.

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #80 on:** May 21, 2005, 09:27:48 am »

Quote from: markrvp on May 12, 2005, 04:30:46 pm

Having the analog joystick active is what is causing the problems with the Trackball as you suspected. Since all of the games I am playing with the GP-WIZ 49way joystick use digital inputs for joystick directions, do you know if JOYtoKEY also translates the joystick directions into keyboard strokes (like left arrow, right arrow)? I have tried this program and it works pretty well on the buttons, but I didn't try to map the joystick movements yet. Also, I loaded up RBJoy, but it was at 3 in the morning and it wasn't apparent how to map the modifier keys like CTL, ALT, SPACE.

Mark,
Specifically, what games are not responding with the trackball when you disable the analog axis inputs? (I would like to do some testing.)

I had a similar problem with trackball games and an analog joystick using the gameport. I blamed it on the archaic gameport interface. The solution for me was to either disable joystick input or unplug the joystick, but I think that would disable all the buttons on the GPWiz49. I don't have a GPWiz49, but I think I could model what's happening with a USB PC joystick and a mouse.

Also - to disable the axis - are you setting it to NONE? Try setting it to R or E or some other seldom used keyboard key. I think it is possible that MAME assigns the mouse to that input and if it is set to NONE, the mouse is disabled. I don't know if it's still true, but you didn't used to be able to change mouse assignments. For example, in Ikari, I can go into the inputs menu and assign P1B1 to A/D X-Axis + and moving the joystick left would fire a shot, but I couldn't spin the mouse and have a left mouse spin fire a shot. Even with MAME Analog Plus - I could change which mouse or axis made the player spin, but I couldn't make the mouse control a different function.

As far as an easy setup fix, MAME has changed controller schemes about 3 times in the last two dozen revisions and I haven't kept up. There used to be a trackball.ini or mouse.ini or something setting that you could use for all games using the mouse. There probably is still something similar. Try visiting EasyEmu.

markrvp · « **Reply #81 on:** May 23, 2005, 12:33:53 pm »

Tiger:

I think the analog/trackball problem was a setup problem. Although in Mame32 I did a global settings change for all roms to enable analog joystick support and mouse support, evidently games that had a previous configuration did not pick those settings up. Alas, my games that weren't seeing the trackball did not have mouse support enabled.

That brings me to my next question. Now that I'm using the GP-Wiz 49, all my games need to be reset. What global change do I need to make (to the main .ini or .cfg file) to make all games have mouse support and analog joystick support? What .ini or .cfg files do I need to delete for games that have already been set individually?

Tiger-Heli · « **Reply #82 on:** May 23, 2005, 01:29:04 pm »

Quote from: markrvp on May 23, 2005, 12:33:53 pm

I think the analog/trackball problem was a setup problem. Although in Mame32 I did a global settings change for all roms to enable analog joystick support and mouse support, evidently games that had a previous configuration did not pick those settings up. Alas, my games that weren't seeing the trackball did not have mouse support enabled.

Well that's actually good new, as far as I'm concerned. I was thinking there was a problem with the GP-Wiz49 and trackball games, but it sounds like just a configuration error.

Quote

That brings me to my next question. Now that I'm using the GP-Wiz 49, all my games need to be reset. What global change do I need to make (to the main .ini or .cfg file) to make all games have mouse support and analog joystick support? What .ini or .cfg files do I need to delete for games that have already been set individually?

Okay, I rarely use MAME32 and MAME has changed input file formats about three times over the last 15 releases or so.

What to do depends on how much customization you have done already. I looked at my test build's C:\mame32\ini\centiped.ini file and it says:

### centiped ###
window 1
mouse 1

I think you can either delete all the gamename.ini files (which will make them refer to mame32.ini settings), but you will lose any custom resolutions, artwork on/off etc. settings you might have made.

OR,

You can manually edit each file to say

mouse 1
joystick 1

And after that you still might need to delete your MAME32/cfg/gamename.cfg files to get rid of custom keyassignments, which will also delete your custom dipswitch settings.

At least as I see it.

markrvp · « **Reply #83 on:** June 02, 2005, 03:30:33 pm »

This project isn't dead; I got sidetracked building Ryan's Minipacman.

Controls update:

I have decided on P360s for my fighter panel. I have bought a pair from Flinkly who graciously sold them to me for less than he would have liked.

For the LS-30/Assault/Tron panel I have ordered complete 49-way trigger grips from 1up. It will probably be another couple of weeks before he has these built and is ready to ship. Money is starting to run out so I went with the GP-Wiz 49 Ecos with the IDE header. I will document the wiring on this once I get started on the panel.

As soon as I get the P360s I will go ahead and build the fighter panel as I have everything else I need to finish it.

I really like the laminated adhesive vinyl for the control panel overlays that I used on Ryan's Minipacman. I think I will be scrapping Lexan for all future control panels. I now view it as an unnecessary hassle and expense. But please don't take that as a slam on Lexan - if I didn't have the ability to laminate the art, I would still use it. I just prefer the look, feel, and ease of application of the laminated vinyl.

After the summer, I will add another 49-way to the Single Player Panel I already built. It will replace the Wico 8-way which I will put with 3 other Wicos in a 2-player Smash TV panel.

jcoleman · « **Reply #84 on:** November 17, 2005, 09:21:38 pm »

Bumping b/c I'm wondering how/if this project is coming along, plus I'm using a similar layout (to the 4-player panel) for my next project, and also to recommend roller latches to hold the panel in place...see

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=19561.0

for an example.

Interestingly, it seems I thought of markrvp's second layout/plan first, while he thought of MY second layout/plan first. Perhaps it's true that great minds think alike...

markrvp · « **Reply #85 on:** November 18, 2005, 12:27:45 am »

Great minds do think alike.

I've gotten sidetracked on this project for a few reasons.

1. It was hot as hell this summer (I'm in Texas) and I couldn't stand to go out to the garage.

2. I put together another cabinet at home that I mounted the CP base to. I just got it complete this past weekend (because it's not hot as hell anymore).

3. I got the opportunity to put together an authentic Pacman cocktail table with arcade PCB and I've been working on that for the last two weeks.

4. I'm still waiting for the Tron 49-way bases to get made. 1up's having trouble finding someone reliable to make them. I'm hoping to get them by the end of the year.

Once I get the 49-way Tron bases then the next panel I'll build is the one with the two Tron sticks and the two LS-30s.

I've kind of decided I don't like the 49-way in my single player panel. I play a lot of Pacman & Donkey Kong and in DK Mario won't stop because the damn joystick won't return to center. I've used lithium grease on the slides, I've beat the hell out of the grommet, but nothing seems to work. I get the impression that the Williams 49-way sticks (if you can find one) work much better than the Happ. Soooooo . . . I'll probably replace it with another Wico 8-way and add a 4-way reunion stick. I don't think the 49-ways will be a problem with the Tron handles because they are supposed to have a heavier duty grommet installed. We'll see.

Stay tuned!

jcoleman · « **Reply #86 on:** November 18, 2005, 08:53:54 am »

How is that 49-way working for games that require analog controls? Stuff like Paperboy, Road Runner, Return of the Jedi, Road Blasters, etc.?

Hm...I just realized those are all Atari games. Based on pretty much the same hardware, no less. Fascinating.

markrvp · « **Reply #87 on:** November 18, 2005, 11:59:26 am »

I don't know, I haven't played those. I really just play a hand full of the classics and Golden Tee Golf. I guess that's reason 5 why I haven't built the rest of my panels. I also always eat the same thing at a restaurant. I just realized I'm very boring. I'll try playing something new this weekend.

BTW, I just got in an order of Leafswitch buttons like Knievel used in his Neon Mame panel that I'll be putting in something. I kind of have it in my mind to build a DEFENDER layout panel with additional left right buttons that I could use for Asteroids and Space Invaders. (More Classics)

KenToad · « **Reply #88 on:** November 18, 2005, 12:20:42 pm »

Hey Mark,

Your grommets haven't broken in yet? Have you let any friends play? I have some friends that are guaranteed to get the job done right.

I really don't have any trouble with the centering problem anymore, at least not that I'm noticing.

Your project is looking fab as always. Remove the averagecade sig already.

Cheers,
KenToad

subcriminal · « **Reply #89 on:** November 18, 2005, 12:30:28 pm »

That's gotta be the best sig on here. Love the dissapointed smilie!
Dude, are you sponsored by de'walt or just loaded!

Stobe · « **Reply #90 on:** November 18, 2005, 03:04:57 pm »

I personally think Mark's sig is a little misleading. I keep looking at his projects and fail to find anything "Average" about them.

Perhaps I'm just hopeful. Or else I might need to come up with a logo for my "BelowAverageCade". (Or maybe better named "CantStickToOneProjectBecauseIGetTooManyNewIdeasFromBYOAC-cade"

-Stobe

markrvp · « **Reply #91 on:** November 18, 2005, 03:11:06 pm »

Quote from: KenToad on November 18, 2005, 12:20:42 pm

Your grommets haven't broken in yet?

Timoe · « **Reply #92 on:** November 18, 2005, 04:41:07 pm »

Do you have anymore pics of your multipanel base construction?

Santoro · « **Reply #93 on:** November 21, 2005, 10:37:59 pm »

Wow, I need to get out more, I just found this thread. Man Mark, you've been busy! Looks great!


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