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Author Topic: Bankruptcy now... or never???  (Read 4867 times)

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mr.Curmudgeon

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Bankruptcy now... or never???
« on: March 09, 2005, 02:30:30 pm »
I'm deeply in debt, but not so much that I didn't plan on working out of it. I took some chances during the dot-com boom when I moved to Boston, didn't pan out, and not being a trust-fund baby, I've been working to pay it back. However, recent events beyond my control (health, second household income gone due to job loss) have made this a difficult proposition.

I'm wondering if anyone here has ever claimed bankruptcy or was thinking about the need to do so in the future. The Republicans in congress have proposed a bill, which is up for vote in the Senate. Once passed into law, it will make it that much more difficult to claim bankruptcy, should these events, and/or any further events, continue to hinder my progress.

I didn't *plan* on ever claiming bankruptcy, but should any more unfortunate events befall me and my girl, I would like to have the option of seeking help. Even though it may *not* be necessary at this time, would it be wise to do it now, while there is still a chance??

I'm still looking into it, as I don't know enough about all the provisions, but this new bill seems like it will make it almost impossible to claim bankruptcy, even if you have severe health issues which hinder you from working. Can I really count on remaining healthy until I've worked off my debt?



mrC

EDIT: Wanted to add some background, just in case this turns into a political debate.  :angel:

I am *not* a spendthrift. Nor am I financially irresponsible. I put myself through college, paid my own way, only receiving grants and scholarships for the last year of my schooling. I have never been on welfare, nor unemployment. I believe in personal responsibility, and I fully intend to relieve my debts through continued hard-work. I do feel, however, that should unfortunate circumstances arise for an individual, there should be some sort of social safety net to help them back on their feet. I am fearful that this coming legislation (Bankruptcy Bill) will not allow for the very real chance that, if something should happen to my health, I may *not* be able to work everything off to the satisfaction of the creditors.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 03:30:33 pm by mr.Curmudgeon »

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2005, 02:39:56 pm »
Ok.. what assets do you have?

If you have car, house and other things.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 02:41:57 pm by GGKoul »

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2005, 02:42:03 pm »
Just remember it takes 14 years to rebuild your credit after filing bankruptcy....


There are also differkinds of bankruptcy:

Chap: 11
Chap: 13

Your best bet is to talk with a lawyer about your options.....

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2005, 02:50:10 pm »
In Canada it's 7. 

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2005, 03:02:22 pm »
Ok.. what assets do you have?

If you have car, house and other things.  You really shouldn't claim bankruptcy because you'll lose everything and you'll have a hard time rebuilding those things once you get on firm ground in the future.


No assets worth anything. Car is worthless. No home, just a renter. Very blue collar working-class background, working paycheck to paycheck.

Quote
1st)  Have you spoke to a bankruptcy lawyer?  If not, you should.  As there are other options.  As they can speak to the creditors and see if they can reduce the amount owing.  Because a creditor would rather take less money then lose everything.

I will be looking to contact one shortly. Just to get the downlow on the approaching law. As for reducing the amount owed, I'm looking into that as well.

Quote
2nd) If you have any investments, cash them out or change the name.  As anything in your name will be claimed and deducted from your money owed.

No problem there. I have not been able to invest in anything. I really would *love* too, but the cash-flow just hasn't been there.

Just remember it takes 14 years to rebuild your credit after filing bankruptcy....


GAAAAAACK!! This is the sort of thing that has, up until now, kept it off the table.

Thanks for the feedback so far, these seem like really good suggestions. I'm sure Bankruptcy lawyers will be working overtime in the next couple days, with this horrible bill coming down the pipe. I better get hold of one soon..  :)



mrC

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2005, 03:21:31 pm »
I'm sorry to hear that Mr.C.

It's a tough decision. Both my brother and sister went Bankrupt, and recently two of my good friends.

They might have pulled out of it with better advice.
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2005, 03:35:16 pm »

Have you looked into Credit Counseling?  It helped my wife and I climb out of nearly crushing debt after college and didn't destroy our credit in the process.  Plus it's free.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2005, 03:47:42 pm »
Hey C....wait, I mean HiC!

First, if it's something you fear you may have to consider in the future, you're best to do it NOW, because from what I understand, the bill will make it so that  NOT NECESSARILY will all your debts (including credit card-type stuff!) be wiped off your slate. 

This bill is being heavily lobbied by the credit card companies, and there's a few more provisions I'm not positive on.

Here's a website to check out - I believe he addresses bankruptcy - ramifications/processes/when/why you'd want to, etc. 

IIRC, bankruptcy only stays with you for 10 years, although it used to be for 7....still, no matter how you look at it, it'll stay with you for a while. 

The GOOD thing about you not moving to Canada ;) is that there are ways around obtaining credit even IF you've filed for bankruptcy.

The website:  www.clarkhoward.com 

You'll get some pretty sound advice there, as well.
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2005, 03:56:12 pm »
how about a dollar donation for each  BYOAC members, then my turn next  ;) who goes third ?
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2005, 03:56:33 pm »
Just remember it takes 14 years to rebuild your credit after filing bankruptcy....


There are also differkinds of bankruptcy:

Chap: 11
Chap: 13

Your best bet is to talk with a lawyer about your options.....





I always thought it took 7 years, not 14....

Also, with one of the types of bankruptcy, I'm pretty sure you can leave certain assets out, like a car for example.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 03:58:16 pm by CCM »

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2005, 04:11:09 pm »
Just remember it takes 14 years to rebuild your credit after filing bankruptcy....
GAAAAAACK!! This is the sort of thing that has, up until now, kept it off the table.

I worked in the high-risk lending industry for 5 years, so I have a lot of experience with this.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 04:21:23 pm by FractalWalk »
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2005, 04:30:19 pm »
I know some that claim bankruptcy in 2000.  They got squeezed on a margin account in 2000... 4 years later, he was able to get a mortgage at 1.5% higher then the posted rates and he even lease a car. 

So while it's tough in the beginning, as long as you learn better credit management in the future.. you shouldn't have too much to worry about in 4 to 5 years from now.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2005, 04:35:59 pm »
Once you clear your debt, why go back and borrow?  That's what gets you to the point in the first place. Sure you need a house and a Car, but past that stay debt free.  Otherwise you risk of making the same mistake twice.

I paid off my bills (except for house and car) and I don't do credit. If I don't have the cash to pay for it, that means I can't afford it. Simple as that.

Credit / Debt caused me fear and made me a slave to the man.  If you have no debt, then nobody can take away what you have because it's yours, not the bank's.

The bank owns my house and my truck.  But I'm working on that.  Since I don't pay interest to credit card companies anymore, it means I have more money to put down on the house and car.  I'm almost done with the car, the house is will be next.

I have more money and my pocket and I save the postage to all those sob's.
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2005, 05:11:40 pm »
I've heard about this "man" before...fredster, do you have an address for "the man", because I wanna buy a house, and I heard that guy is gonna keep me down!  ;)

Do the old trick - have one credit card for emergencies.  Fill up a bowl half full with water.  Freeze it.  Pull it out, put that emergency credit card in there.  Fill it all the way up with water.  Freeze it. 

Leave it.  If you need it for something, now you've gotta do some work to be able to use it, and maybe in that time, you'll realize you don't REALLY need what you were considering to be such an "emergency".
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2005, 05:31:31 pm »
I've heard about this "man" before...fredster, do you have an address for "the man", because I wanna buy a house, and I heard that guy is gonna keep me down!  ;)

Do the old trick - have one credit card for emergencies.  Fill up a bowl half full with water.  Freeze it.  Pull it out, put that emergency credit card in there.  Fill it all the way up with water.  Freeze it. 

Leave it.  If you need it for something, now you've gotta do some work to be able to use it, and maybe in that time, you'll realize you don't REALLY need what you were considering to be such an "emergency".
Might wanna put the CC is a baggie...dont wanna "break the ice" to find that the ink has ran!

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2005, 05:35:23 pm »
Nowadays, depending on what you claim in your bankruptcy your credit may not take a huge hit. If your Auto credit was 780+ it may only drop to 630. You'll be able to get a loan on a car if you put a little bit down and have a letter stating that the bankruptcy has been discharged.

Remember, you can't file for bankruptcy again for 7 more years. You'll have a really hard time buying a house and you will probably have to pay $400+ as a deposit just to get a cell phone.

If you are under $20,000 in debt, then I would suggest paying it off. It may take a few years, but you'll be better off in the long run.

If you are more than 20K in debt, and there is absolutely no way yan can pay off some of your debtors, then bankruptcy may be your only option.

Unfortunately I see a lot of bankruptcies, since Utah is the #1 bankruptcy state. Just be careful in your decision.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2005, 05:37:59 pm »
Once you clear your debt, why go back and borrow?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 05:39:56 pm by FractalWalk »
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2005, 09:41:31 pm »
Quote
Credit is a good thing as long as you can manage it wisely.
Exactly. As long as everything goes right, and you follow the cycle the way you are supposed to.  Most people can't handle it that well. They miss it once or twice.  They let balances build up, or they don't know how to handle the credit anyways. Miss one payment and the interest goes way way up.

Get sick, loose your job, get laid off, etc, and see just how fast they come for you. Believe me, I know. I had cancer for about 9 months and couldn't work right. I had everything paid off. When the local bank found out I had cancer, they wanted to collect my car after I was late. (if you read the fine print on your loans, they can do that if they have reason to believe you won't pay).  Medical bills hurt just as much.

If you stay clear of credit, just like drugs, then you don't have to worry.

If you put the money in the bank, pay for it with cash, you earn your interest, it's the same as having 0% interest loans. I've done that too, but it always hangs over your head, because someday you have to pay. 

Invest the money and wait. What is the difference of waiting the year and buying it and buying and owing the money now? You eventually have to pay off any bill. 

Save the money until you have it all and be debt free.  Once you pay off the debt, make the payments to a bank account like it was a necessary thing and collect your interest yourself.

If you don't owe anything to anybody for anything, you are truely free.

In your example Saint, you could have paid the $6000 and went on.  You wouldn't have to look back at the loan in 2 years. That freedom is well worth the money.  10% is a nice return, but I'd rather be free and clear. 


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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2005, 10:07:11 pm »
I've heard about this "man" before...fredster, do you have an address for "the man", because I wanna buy a house, and I heard that guy is gonna keep me down! ;)

Do the old trick - have one credit card for emergencies. Fill up a bowl half full with water. Freeze it. Pull it out, put that emergency credit card in there. Fill it all the way up with water. Freeze it.

Leave it. If you need it for something, now you've gotta do some work to be able to use it, and maybe in that time, you'll realize you don't REALLY need what you were considering to be such an "emergency".

Wow, that's imaginative.

I put mine in the safe deposit box.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2005, 10:16:50 pm »
In your example Saint

I'm not Saint
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2005, 11:00:05 pm »
My $.02

It's funny just how many people come into my office and want to buy a house after claiming bankruptcy.
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2005, 12:21:09 am »
Speak to a lawyer first, before entering any type of repayment plan.  Once you have entered into a repayment agreement , if you decide to file bankruptcy anyway, you may still have to honor the repayment plan. 
Disclaimer:
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2005, 12:27:11 am »
I have zero debt, zero, it is the best lifestyle. My car is paid for (just bought one actually, it is 5 years old, I paid cash), the college I attended is paid for, everything I own is paid for. I even pay my car insurance policy off all at once rather than making the monthly payments.

My rule is never borrow money, period. The only possible exception is a mortgage, and ONLY because of the numbers behind it. But even that mortgage should be as small as possible. Buy an inexpensive house and pay it off in 5 years, or buy a big fancy house and slave to pay it off for the next 30 and by the time it is paid for the neighborhood is gone to crap, the kids are all grown up and you don't even need a house that big anymore.
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2005, 12:49:10 am »
If you're very bad in debt and can't see it paid off, I'm leaning toward the bankruptcy.  Even if you think that you can have it all paid off in 10 years, that's the point at which your credit will begin repairing.  The debt disappears as you pay it off (though, when in over your head, it's often difficult to pay more than the interest off, which gets you nowhere), but the clock doesn't start ticking to get that thing off your credit report until the debt is completely cleared. 

A bad debt starts over every time there is action on it.  For example, lets say you owe Discover $1000, but haven't paid them a cent for 5 years.  Most debts, including credit card debt, expires in a sense -- a statute of limitations, I guess.  The time until it expires differs from state to state, but is usually 5-7 years.  If there has been no action on a debt after that 5-7 years the credit card companies cannot legally collect from you.  But if, the day before the debt expires the credit card company or collection agency calls you up and talks you into sending them a $10 payment, it starts over and the credit card company has that 5-7 years to collect again and cannot get a judgement on you.  Technically, even after it expires, you still owe the debt, but it cannot be collected and does not appear on your credit report so, for all intents and purposes (aside from moral fiber, I suppose) the debt no longer exists.  And, of course, if the CC/collection agency is on the ball they will get a judgement on you before that time period expires which is HORRIBLE it is not erased even by bankruptcy, IIRC.

So anyway, a bad debt on your credit report remains bad until it's completely paid off, but even after it's paid off it sits there on your credit report for 7 more years from the date you pay it off.  So if it's going to take you 10 years to clean up this mess it will take 17 years for the mess to disappear from your credit report.  That's a helluva lot longer than the Bankruptcy will tarnish your credit report.  If you pay off all your debt you are, in many ways, in the same position that you would be in after a bankruptcy.  You are out of debt, but have a godawful credit report and will continue to have a godawful credit report for nearly a decade.  Bankruptcy will put you in virtually the same
position, but maybe 10 or 20 years sooner.

If it's really serious, go ahead and start rebuilding your life financially now.  There's my 2 cents.
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2005, 01:35:15 am »
I filed.

My wife and I had some credit card debt, and I had a car loan.  Nothing we couldn't handle, but then I got hit with a lawsuit (which I won't be going into), and the legal fees murdered me.  I had to keep making cash advances on credit cards to pay the lawyer, and when it was all over, I was way too far into the red to pull myself out.  We kept paying all our minimums, and try to put a little extra on a card whenever we could, and everytime we started to make any headway at all, one of life's little emergencies (car repair, dental work, etc.) would knock us back down again.  After enough months went by, we took a good hard look and saw that we had actually lost ground, even though we were really trying.  We decided we could keep fighting, and:

 a) eventually gotten better jobs and started to gain some ground, and finally gotten it all paid off in 20 years or so;

 b) never have gotten any better, just stayed broke forever;

 c) slowly and steadily lost ground until we couldn't even make the payments anymore, and got forced into bankruptcy anyway.

Or we could quit fighting and file bankruptcy.
We wanted to have children someday before we were 50, and not raise them in the grungy welfare trailer park, so we filed, Chapter 7.

I'm not proud of it, but I have to admit, it really has worked out well.  My bankruptcy was filed in April of 1999, and in 2002, I bought home (or at least, I bought a mortgage).  For a little over a year now, I've owned my own business.  Our daughter is two, and doesn't know what a trailer is.  We have almost no debts outside of our mortgage, the cars are paid for- there's a little on a credit card from a plumbing disaster we just had, but we'll pay that off over the next two months.  If we had never filed, I believe we'd still be renting, still be in debt, and I don't know if we'd have ever felt financially comfortable enough to have had our daughter.

Secrets to surviving bankruptcy:  It's a black mark on your credit, no way around that.  But, it hasn't destroyed our finances like some people say it will.  (Disclaimer: BK laws differ from state to state; everything I say may not apply where you are.  Also, I'm not an attorney, and could be flat-out wrong, but this is the way I understand it to be.)

First, have a good reason!  The law will allow you to file for any reason, or none at all- but after it's done, and you're trying to re-establish credit, potential lenders will ask you why you filed.  Medical bills, Divorce, Lawsuit, etc. all sound a lot better than "I spent more than I had." 

Second- I did NOT discharge my auto loan in the bankruptcy.  When you file, you can "re-affirm" any debts you do not wish to charge off in the bankruptcy.  This may seem silly; if you're going to cancel your debts, why not cancel ALL your debts, right?  Nope!  Continuing to pay on some stuff looks really good to potential lenders in the post-BK world. 

Third, we both kept a credit card.  If you have a zero balance on a card, or if you choose to "re-affirm" the debt on a card, you may be allowed to keep one or more cards.  I think we were both allowed to keep one zero balance card.  Then, after the BK, use it and pay it off each month, or leave it with a small ($1.00?) balance.  Just use it to buy gas, or something else that you usually pay cash for.  (Somebody told me that charges made on cards kept through a BK filing would no longer affect my credit score, but SOMETHING made it go back up.)  Plus, even if it doesn't directly affect the score, it still shows on your credit report that you have the card, and are using it responsibly.  (assuming you are using it responsibly!!)  This looks good to potential lenders. 

At some point, credit card offers will start to come again.  Lots sooner than you think.  The credit card companies really want to deal with you, as you're actually a really good risk for them now- you're known to have no debts, and after you file, you can't file again for a number of years (7?  10?), so they know you won't bail on them.  The terms will be lousy, but take one anyway, and use it just like the one you kept through the BK, which you can cancel now.  PAY IT OFF EVERY MONTH!  You don't want to pay any interest, and you don't want to dig yourself a new hole, either.  Pay everything off every month, or carry a $1.00 balance, just so your credit report shows you sometimes carry a balance.  Creditors like a customer who carries a balance, as that's where the make their money.  If you NEVER carry a balance, you're no good to them.

Fourth, after a year or two, when you're earning some $$ again, buy a cheap-o used car from a used car lot.  Really, really cheap, like so cheap you could just as easily save up and pay cash.  Make sure it's mechanically sound, and negotiate a fair price.  Tell them you'll be using their (outrageously expensive) financing.  This makes them a little more flexible on the price, as they know they'll be making some $$ on the financing as well.  Especially when they run your credit, and see that you only qualify for the "High-Risk" financing option, the one where they charge you more interest than the loanshark Rocky Balboa used to work for back in Philly.  Then, you avoid the interest by paying it off over a few months, maybe you have to sell that nice car you kept through the bankruptcy to make tht happen, but an auto loan paid off early looks good on your credit report, and gives it some depth, beyond that credit card you've been using at the gas station.

If you keep your nose clean, and actively work to establish credit, you'll be mortgage-able in a few years.  You'll pay a little higher rate than non BK people, but if you've built a good enough credit score, it won't be so bad, especially if you can get an FHA loan (I did). 

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2005, 02:08:20 am »
I don't want anybody to think I'm advocating bankruptcy in my earlier post; but I wanted Mr. C to know that it's not as bad as folks will try to tell him it is.  It's better to avoid the BK if you can. 

The new laws may not force your hand as much as you think.  My understanding is that the bill would not prevent you from filing, but that it will force more people into chapter 13 instead of chapter 7.  Chapter 13 filings put you into a re-payment plan, and do not erase your debt the way chapter 7 does.  Whether you're one of the people that would be moved from ch7 to ch13, I dunno.

Somebody already posted this, but I'll second it:

http://www.daveramsey.com/

If you can get by without filing, he's got about the best strategy I've heard for getting debt-free.  I've been listening to his radio show for a while now, and the thing makes sense.  If you don't get the show on your radio, it's on XM and Sirius, and he just announced today that the show will start being both streamed and downloadable via his website over the next few days.

----------------------------

Also, somebody posted that folks should stay debt free aside from theirr house and car.  I'll take that a step further, and say that you should not owe on a car, either.  There's no reason to saddle yourself with a car payment every month when you could be spending that money on arcade parts!  If you're rich, you can afford to buy your new car for cash.  Otherwise, let some other doofus pay the depreciaton $$ on a new car, he'll sell it off in 3-5 years, and if you're making a nice living, buy it from him for cash.  If you're making a little less, spend more time shopping to find one that's 7-10 years old but still in good shape, and buy it for cash.  If you're dirt poor, buy a $500 junker for cash, and drive it til it dies.  Whichever level you're at, if you don't have the cash, here's what you do:  instead of taking out a loan, buy that $500 junker and drive it for a time, while you make a car payment TO YOURSELF in the bank.  If the junker dies before you get enough to buy the car you want, just get another junker out of your car fund, and keep paying yourself.  You'll be amazed, you can really drive a 1980 Chevy LUV instead of a 2005 Lexus, and you'll still get wherever it is you're going, plus it will haul games.  When you do buy that Lexus, It'll be sooner rather than later, due to the fact that instead of PAYING interest, you'll have been EARNING interest on your savings.

Personally, I'm done with cars newer than 1969 or so.  Old cars actually APPRECIATE in value, instead of depreciating like new ones do.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2005, 04:21:59 am »
I drove my $1000 truck for a year and 20,000 miles. I sold it for $500 (it got hail damage and needed a new windshield) and I bought a 99 model compact car for cash (which was also cheap). Main reason I switched was that I didn't need a truck anymore and the car with the better gas mileage (32 instead of 16) would pay for itself in 2 years in gas savings alone.

My $1000 truck only depreciated $500 with the addition of massive hail damage, 20,000 more miles and a spidered windshield. I would have lost $5000 on a newer car.
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2005, 07:58:23 am »
I still say he should look into credit counseling.  They can reduce your interest rates down to almost nothing for you without lending you any more money. It worked awesomely for us without having to run from our accountability.

http://www.genus.org

Great site, helped us get out of $60k in debt within 4 years.  Non profit, gov't approved and the lenders like them too since it's better for them than a bankrupt client.

I have also noticed that most of the people talking about "I have no debt, I drive a $750 car, I don't need this and that" don't have kids.  You cannot stick your wife and kids with a $750 car.  It's too dangerous for them to break down on the side of a highway when it's 5 degrees outside.  I'm not saying they need a $30k SUV but they need safe, reliable transportation.  I got my wife a '97 Subaru Legacy Outback about 18 months ago for $12k.  It has a great safety rating, is nearly impervious to snow and ice on the road (AWD), and starts every morning.  Some things, even though they cost some money, are more important than the money they cost.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2005, 08:38:25 am »
credit cards are ok only if you pay them off at the end of the month. the interest rates are extortionate. even the CEO of BarclayCard told his kids to not use credit cards!

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2005, 08:41:31 am »
This isn't a lecture, just a bit of advice.  I swear that when I see people buying beer with a credit card I just want to kick the living crap out of them.

They may be using an easy checking card.  I've got one (I'm sure most do) and it just takes it out of my checking account.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2005, 08:48:39 am »
I still say he should look into credit counseling.  They can reduce your interest rates down to almost nothing for you without lending you any more money. It worked awesomely for us without having to run from our accountability.

http://www.genus.org

Great site, helped us get out of $60k in debt within 4 years.  Non profit, gov't approved and the lenders like them too since it's better for them than a bankrupt client.

I'll second Genus.  Has helped us lower our debt massively.  The thing that was killing us was the interest.  24.99%?  Bologna!

Quote
I have also noticed that most of the people talking about "I have no debt, I drive a $750 car, I don't need this and that" don't have kids.  You cannot stick your wife and kids with a $750 car.  It's too dangerous for them to break down on the side of a highway when it's 5 degrees outside.  I'm not saying they need a $30k SUV but they need safe, reliable transportation.  I got my wife a '97 Subaru Legacy Outback about 18 months ago for $12k.  It has a great safety rating, is nearly impervious to snow and ice on the road (AWD), and starts every morning.  Some things, even though they cost some money, are more important than the money they cost.

Say, Chad...whatever happened to that safe car, anyway?

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2005, 09:13:51 am »
This is disturbing -
Quote
Main reason I switched was that I didn't need a truck anymore
How can you not need a truck anymore  ???

I understand that the main reason people go into Bankruptcy is medical bills. About 1/2 ?

I know that one can carry a debt and manage it, sure. But the minute something goes wrong, that's when the problem happens.  If you stay as debt free as you can, you don't have to worry about losing your car if you hold title.

A lot of these companies will settle for less.  They kick you when you are down.  A card that was at 5% goes to 21%.  Late fees and extra interest gets you in deeper.

It's a personal decision and complicated.  I pulled myself out by doing the Dave Ramsey method, and I paid those SOB's off one by one.  I will never ever get wrapped up like that again.  Between the people I owed on bills I made and Medical bills I couldn't avoid was a life changing experience.


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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2005, 09:30:05 am »
Say, Chad...whatever happened to that safe car, anyway?

It's still safe.  :)  We have had some repairs on it, the timing belt and water pump went recently.  Alas, that's one of the drawbacks to buying a car that has 80k+ miles on it.  The basic maintenance starts to kick in, mileage related failures.  The big thing on this one is the AWD.  I know people drive SUVs and say "hey, this thing is 4WD, snow doesn't matter", and they're stupid.  AWD, though, actually does make a huge difference.  I still say, even with some maintenane and some older car type headaches, it's better than sticking the wife and kids in a $700 car that is in poor condition and is far more likely to break down.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2005, 11:14:49 am »
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2005, 11:17:07 am »
Most of the folks I know who have done bankruptcy did it because they spent $75k filling out the giant house they just bought... and now that they have their house, the credit is less of an issue and the card debt goes POOF when they file. 

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2005, 11:18:29 am »
A bad debt starts over every time there is action on it.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2005, 11:25:45 am by FractalWalk »
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2005, 11:19:10 am »
I have also noticed that most of the people talking about "I have no debt, I drive a $750 car, I don't need this and that" don't have kids.  You cannot stick your wife and kids with a $750 car.  It's too dangerous for them to break down on the side of a highway when it's 5 degrees outside.  ........  Some things, even though they cost some money, are more important than the money they cost.

Have to agree with your last statement.  It's never 5 degrees outside here in CA, so if it does break down, nobody's going to die of exposure, but I still don't want them to get stuck anywhere.  That's why my wife and kid ride in a 92 Camry- not a Lexus, but still cheap, and dependable.  I, on the other hand, drive a 1949 Willys pickup these days.  Some day when we can afford it, I want to move the wife into a classic, but hers will have to be in really perfect running condition.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2005, 11:24:16 am »
I understand that the main reason people go into Bankruptcy is medical bills. About 1/2 ?

I guarantee that number is not accurate. Medical bankruptcies are the rarity. Most people file because they lose control of their spending (champagne tastes, beer budget). Character is extremely important when assessing risk.

Hardships like job loss and divorce etc. are also pretty common. But that is really a lack of financial planning as opposed to a character issue.
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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2005, 11:24:29 am »
It's not really death that's the main concern there... it's easy enough to just sit in the car and use whatever residual heat is there for the time being.  it's frostbite.  A 4 year old can frostbite his hands in minutes and that damage is painful and permanent.

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Re: Bankruptcy now... or never???
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2005, 11:46:37 am »
Most of the folks I know who have done bankruptcy did it because they spent $75k filling out the giant house they just bought... and now that they have their house, the credit is less of an issue and the card debt goes POOF when they file.
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