Author Topic: Need tips on 25" arcade monitor, new/used/convert 25" TV? (Read 7435 times)

fixumdude · « **on:** March 08, 2005, 06:51:19 pm »

I have an old pit fighter cab that was converted to a Marvel Super Heroes at some point and was totally empty when I got it. I have a 21" PC monitor in the cab now, but as many of you know, it just doesn't fill the space.

Most brand new 25" televisions I've looked at are just a hair too wide to fit in the cab with the case on and I'd hate to tear apart a brand new $150-$200 TV. I recently received a decent used 25" television, but it only has a coaxial (cable) input on the back (which you also know is horrible for a PC picture).

I've seen the 8-liners web site about turning a 25" TV into an arcade monitor for around $100...are these any good or would most of you recommend getting a new or good used arcade monitor? I've found a few threads about them here, but none of the reports seem to be "glowing".

Also, if I go the arcade monitor route, is the Arcade VGA the only way to to hook up an arcade monitor to a PC? I've tried several searches, but haven't come up with anything except the AVGA. (some of you seem to be search wizards so any tips on how to get exactly what you are looking for would help too).

Sorry this is so long, and thanks in advance for any advice you may have,

Mike

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2005, 07:24:39 pm »

Search this forum for tons of info.

8liners chassis:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,5448.0.html(8liners chassis/TV tube to arcade monitor(Previously: Whooooo mama!) <--- *THE* FAQ for 8liners installation !!)
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,19429.0.html (8Liners 25" Chassis.. My thoughts. )
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,12010.0.html(8liners chassis write-up on RGVAC )

Plus another 75+ threads in this fourm alone mentioning 8liners.

An alternative to 8liners chassis which are built buy Jenn-Shinn, is an ebay seller by the name of "Video1963" who sells basically similar replacement chassis made by Weiya, however his REQUIRE an isolation transformer where the Jenn-Shinn ususally don't. Reports are the Video1963 chassis are better. I am about to try one of theirs but they havn't put them up in the last few days so I could order. Threads discussing his Weiya chassis include the 8liners big thread above, plus:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,32944.0.html(What size replacement chassis for 23" tube? (20" or 25")? (Ken???) )

You don't need ArcadeVGA to drive an arcade monitor... You can use *almost* any VGA card plus AdvanceMame running in DOS or Linux. If you need to run windows, then you probably need an ArcadeVGA unless you can configure powerstrip type utilities to enable the 15KHz modes.

Read the threads above..especially the long 8liners FAQ (Whoo Mama) and then stop back with questions....

PS: In that long thread, there is a link to OscarControl's site where there is a review of a 5 tube swap-a-thon into the 8liners chassis complete with 4 pictures of each tube for comparisons. Link: http://www.oscarcontrols.com/chassis

AceTKK · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2005, 08:51:08 pm »

I'm in the same position myself, except I have a 27" tube. One additional thing to consider if you go with the 8-liner chassis is how you're going to mount the new monitor. Once de-cased, your tube will have 4 mounting "ears" but no metal frame to support the tube or chassis. I've been unsuccessful in sourcing one of these frames, but maybe somebody can offer a lead. Most ppl have mounted the tube to a wooden support but I'm not entirely sure this will be secure enough for my 27" tube. Short of having a frame custom-built I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

-Ace-

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2005, 09:54:37 pm »

Consider this: All TV tubes, up to 36", are mounted via those 4 dog ears into a cheap plastic frame that transfers the weight to the base... also plastic.

Honestly, if you use steel braces in the corners and attach them into the plywood/mdf/particle board, that will aid greatly in the support.

For anything larger than 20", i'd recommend 2, 1/2" pieces of wood glued together or 2, 3/4" pieces and sufficient edge holding.

Alternatively, if you don't have much trim around the tube, just use some hardwood (oak, maple) and cut them at 45 degree angles and screw them into the sides of the cabinet/shelf, then screw the tabs into that. Then just make a decorative black frame around it out of a thin piece of wood or cardboard. The hardwood will hold well... they use them to brace the 4 corners of a cheap dining chair that can hold 250# easily.

Yeah, I'd recommend putting it in something stronger myself, but if you consider how TV's are made, there really isn't much holding. An alternative is to go to the home improvement store and buy some angle iron or square pipes and use those as cross braces to hold it. If you have access to a welder you can make a complete frame really easily/cheaply.

wakerlet · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2005, 10:49:29 pm »

I also just ordered a wei-ya chassis (for a 19" monitor though).

fixumdude · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2005, 11:19:14 pm »

MonitorGuru,

Sorry, I know you guys get sick of going over things every time a new person shows up here, so I really did do some searching before I posted and I really appreciate your time. I found most of the stuff about the 8-liners before...but thanks for posting the links again..it helps to have them all together for those of us doing research. All of the reviews I found sounded "pretty good"...with slight pin cushion problems, etc. and the pictures looked good.

I guess my main question was if you had the choice to convert a TV tube, purchase a used monitor at an auction, etc. or buy a brand new one, which would most people around here do? I know, of course, that buying a brand new one would be the best and easiest thing to do, but my resources are limited (like most). I'm basically looking for the popular opinion on which of the three options (or another option I haven't discovered yet) is the best balance of money vs. performance for a newbie making his first attempt at an arcade monitor.

And thanks for the Video card info...I've heard of Advanemame, but hadn't see anything about using it for arcade monitors...now I can do a search.

Thanks again,

Mike

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2005, 09:50:49 am »

Quote from: wakerlet on March 08, 2005, 10:49:29 pm

I also just ordered a wei-ya chassis (for a 19" monitor though).

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2005, 10:02:20 am »

Fixumdude --

Sorry I didn't answer that question specifically. Personally, with my knowledge, I would find a free TV set or a cheap one at a rummage sale/thrift store that turns on and has all the colors with no burn in. Max cost should be < $15 for a 25" tube.

Then buy the replacement chassis and isolation transformer and hook it up. Picture quality will be identical to arcades (or usually a bit better as no burn in and no problems that an old monitor could have). Total cost: About $115 plus time to research and assemble it. Only caveat is to ensure the yoke attached to the tube will work with the chassis and not produce strange pincushion or bending. Most work, but you could be unlucky and need to find another tube/yoke to work with it. Also you need to figure out the best way to mount it.

But for many people, the easier thing is to find an existing used arcade monitor that works and slap it in. Problem is, it will cost about the same price..~$100 for a used 25" one. But zero work on your part. Caveat is that it probably is starting to have problems and will need a capacitor replacement kit and other stuff that while simple, is beyond most peoples abilities if they have never wored on electronics, and just as "dangerous" as putting together a monitor from a donor tube and chassis..even more so if you don't know how to solder and disassemble/reassemble correctly.

In any case, going with an arcade monitor, weather you build it, buy used or buy new, will give you the best and most authentic picture

However, you are then required to either use AdvanceMame to control it and that prevents you from using Windows and requires DOS or Linux knowledge, or you buy another $100 ArcadeVGA card and use Windows.

No matter what, don't settle for a TV with only Coax or RCA inputs. You will be very disappointed.

SVideo is better but still poor IMHO. Component may be equal or only slightly better than SVideo on most sets. All of these though are only limited as to the output quality of the converter built into your video card and restricted to ONE frequency due to the TV limitations. (Where an arcade monitor does have a small range of frequencies that help avoid large black areas on the sides if the picture is smaller than the ideal res of the monitor--it can adjust to stretch accordingly) The picture may still have "TV" issues associated with it like imperfect color, lack of details, interference, etc..

Ken Layton · « **Reply #8 on:** March 09, 2005, 10:18:05 am »

The Kortek, Nintendo Sanyo, W-G 4900 series are all high impedance vertical yokes so you could look around for some nonworking ones of those types for use with the Electrohome version of the Wei-ya chassis.

Yes I took a look at both of those sites mentioned. Could be a typo on his part about the transformer. To be certain on what a particular chassis uses I would go by the specs at the Wei-ya factory website.

wakerlet · « **Reply #9 on:** March 09, 2005, 11:22:44 am »

Quote from: MonitorGuru on March 09, 2005, 09:50:49 am

Quote from: wakerlet on March 08, 2005, 10:49:29 pm
I also just ordered a wei-ya chassis (for a 19" monitor though).

wakerlet · « **Reply #10 on:** March 09, 2005, 11:30:14 am »

Quote from: MonitorGuru on March 09, 2005, 09:50:49 am

If Ken's reading this thread... Did you check out the Alva site... I find it interesting that they sell 2 complete monitor kits.. a 14" and a 20" that state "does not need isolation transformer". And they used the model number of the chassis (820/814) as part of the model number of their kit.

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #11 on:** March 09, 2005, 11:51:14 am »

Wakerlet --

Did you just order one item or did you order multiples of one or one of each of a few things? That is a VERY nice price you got! At $50 I'd pick up one just to hold until I found a high impedence one. (All I find is low impedence it seems)

Anyway, When you called them were they easy to communicate with? Or was it a hassle to ensure you were ordering the right thing/etc?? (I like emailing orders since it's written and concise so nothing is messed up), but if it saves me a lot of money, I can spend a few minutes on the phone I guess

I need two 25" chassis for a friend to drive his 23" TV's he got, plus I need a low impedence one for the Galaxian cabinet I'm building, and could pick up a high impedence one as well as a backup for the G07 that is starting to go in my Ms.Pac cocktail...(already had a cap kit)

Please report on the WeiYa chassis when you get it. See the link above to the report on the 8liners with pictures over at OscarControls as a comparison. (Too bad DHansson's pictures are gone from the 8liners tread now)

I'll probably end up ordering from Alva before you get yours though as my friend is getting ansy to get his built... but we'll see..

Finally: I'm really curious why I can't find the 826 model at weiya's site.. only the 828. What's the difference? I believe I read the 828 has pincushion control (and would be wanted when using a 23"/ ~8ohm tube on a 25" chassis probably).

wakerlet · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2005, 12:07:16 pm »

Quote from: MonitorGuru on March 09, 2005, 11:51:14 am

Wakerlet --

Did you just order one item or did you order multiples of one or one of each of a few things?

Ken Layton · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2005, 12:15:09 pm »

Here's the site with the 828 series:

www.weiya.com.tw/monitor/p10.htm

Look under the 828 series and you'll see the "825H1" which is the one I mentioned to you earlier about using with the 23" tube.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2005, 12:24:19 pm »

I used the Weiya "Electrohome" replacement chassis on a Nanao monitor (high impedance vertical yoke) that had given me much grief. Worked perfectly! It's been on location now for about year with ZERO problems and it still looks great. Over the years I have used several complete Weiya (under the EYGO name in the USA) monitors and replacement boards. They worked well and after a while the only problems were just needing capkits. We had several early Megatouch countertop games that Merit had used these monitors. There wasn't much ventilation in there which caused several caps to dry up. Those Megatouches are now over ten years old and like I mentioned just the usual capkit job fixed em right up.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #15 on:** March 15, 2005, 11:32:20 am »

Wakerlet:

Any updates??? I'm curious to know how it came out.

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #16 on:** March 15, 2005, 12:19:37 pm »

I was wondering the same thing. I havn't had a chance to call during the day to place an order. I might try emailing them to see if they could do the same quote that way (pretend they dont have prices on their web site)

wakerlet · « **Reply #17 on:** March 15, 2005, 02:34:20 pm »

Okay, okay...

So the chassis arrived on Friday. It was very well packaged in it's original box, wrapped in bubble wrap and placed inside of a larger box. Not bad for $7.50 via UPS and it only took three days to get to me. I'm impressed already.

In addition, the shipping label had no errors (exactly as I gave it to the lady on the phone). This is also a plus since my address is pretty hard to get right...Spring Lake, two words, Waterleaf, one word, etc., etc.

I just got around to installing it last night so I don't have pictures yet. First impression is that the colors are good, focus is good, but there is some noticable pincushioning on only one side. Since this monitor was not previously working, I'm not sure if it is a tube issue or not. I'm in Detroit for the next two days so I won't have pictures for you until Thursday (I know, sorry). I'm currently trying to find someone with a working G07 or K4900 that I can use to test to see if it's the chassis or the tube that is the problem.

More to follow!

-Todd

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #18 on:** March 15, 2005, 03:41:38 pm »

Technically, it shouldn't be the tube but the yoke on the tube causing the pincushion. If it's too far out of range on DC resistance, or simply has an odd impedence it might not be a perfect match. I ran into the same problem on some tubes with the 8liners chassis as seen here http://www.oscarcontrols.chassis(Note: Kelsey's site got hacked yesterday so this page is currently not working)

DaemonCollector · « **Reply #19 on:** March 15, 2005, 10:11:52 pm »

I was wondering what happened to my cab, glad to see it went to good use.

fixumdude · « **Reply #20 on:** March 15, 2005, 11:14:24 pm »

Yes, it is really an awesome cab for mameing. The control panel just bolts on so I was able to set it aside and make a brand new 4 player panel without harming the original cab or CP at all. Now I'm just looking for a good 25" arcade monitor so I can use that cool bezel art work that came with it.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2005, 01:18:51 am »

That link to video1963's site does not work anymore. Says page not found Earthlink.

MonitorGuru · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2005, 10:34:14 am »

Quote from: Ken Layton on March 24, 2005, 01:18:51 am

That link to video1963's site does not work anymore. Says page not found Earthlink.

Works for me, but he must have changed pages around. Here is his new home page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~arcadeparts/index.html

He added more pictures of swaps, and his G07 doesn't show any pincushion.

Also his pictures and inventory (and location) sorta give it away... he's getting the parts cheap from Alva and reselling them on eBay (making quite the profit on the 25" chassis as well.. $45 / 90% markup from Alva's price quoted me direct, plus higher shipping.

I should know by next week how good the 1220 and the 826 is for my tubes and will post.

Ken Layton · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2005, 11:01:14 am »

it's funny, but he has mismarked his Wells-Gardner 4900 series as the "9000" series?!

wakerlet · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2005, 11:31:30 am »

Quote from: MonitorGuru on March 24, 2005, 10:34:14 am

Quote from: Ken Layton on March 24, 2005, 01:18:51 am
That link to video1963's site does not work anymore. Says page not found Earthlink.

Works for me, but he must have changed pages around. Here is his new home page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~arcadeparts/index.html

He added more pictures of swaps, and his G07 doesn't show any pincushion.

Also his pictures and inventory (and location) sorta give it away... he's getting the parts cheap from Alva and reselling them on eBay (making quite the profit on the 25" chassis as well.. $45 / 90% markup from Alva's price quoted me direct, plus higher shipping.

I should know by next week how good the 1220 and the 826 is for my tubes and will post.

Funny thing is that I connected my Yoke plug exactly as he indicates and I had an upside down image. Had to do White, Red, Gray, Brown instead to get an upright image

Ken Layton · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2005, 11:40:27 am »

I think he's still working on the site. I noticed some pages have no descriptions next to the pictures.


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