Finally (asteroids and vector games improvement)

[telengard]

For anyone interested...

Someone has created standalone emulators for games like asteroids and tempest and they seem to do a much better job at emulating a vector monitor on a raster one.  The author said he will be rolling his changes into MAME itself.  The coolest thing is the simulated "bright dot" in Asteroids.  I have no clue if there is a technical term for that.   
All of his emulators except for the tempest one seem to need vsync to be manually set.  I didn't have much luck getting it to run normal speed.

http://webpages.charter.net/astgl/astgl.htm

Very cool!

~telengard

EDIT: The key to getting it to run normal speed is changing your OpenGL settings to always wait for vsync.   The keyboard input seems to be intermittent though.

[Witchboard]

Very, very cool.

[ChadTower]

The coolest thing is the simulated "bright dot" in Asteroids.  I have no clue if there is a technical term for that.   

It's a pulse of at or near max voltage to the Z signal.  A raster monitor doesn't HAVE a Z signal, so it has to be emulated in software.

[SirPoonga]

Something like this has been around for awhile.  however the bright dot is just a halo around the beam.  It still isn't bright.  Nothing can be as bright as an actual vector monitor

[bowza]

Sorry, but i disagree, the game runs much closer to realistic under Mame

The rocks in this version dont look so jagged and whats been done with the bullets just ruins the feel for the game.

Would love an origonal upright of Asteroids

First game i ever played.

Dave

[telengard]

Sorry, but i disagree, the game runs much closer to realistic under Mame

The rocks in this version dont look so jagged and whats been done with the bullets just ruins the feel for the game.

Would love an origonal upright of Asteroids

First game i ever played.

Dave

After fiddling with the options I got it to look OK.  I didn't notice anything different as far as the jagged lines.  My eyesight must not be good enough to notice the subtle differences. SP is right.  The halo effect is a nice try, but the bright beam cannot be duplicated on a raster monitor.   I am *all for* someone trying to improve the code for the older games though.

I downloaded an emulator called Vector Dream last night and it has simulated power supply noise and other noises too.   I just wish someone would build new vector monitors.  Then I could buy one of those Zektor cards and build a vector only cabinet.  Not sure how I would handle overlays and stuff but it would be a good start.

[SirPoonga]

Who here has an uncle with an Asteroid machine to compare mame to?

* SirPoonga raises hand

Sorry, a computer monitor will not burn an image into your retinas like an actual asteroids machine.  It's like a normal LED emulating a super bright.  It just isn't the same.

In terms of emulation, sound, game play mame is awesome.

[DarkKobold]

I have an original asteroids machine!!!!!

Can't use this emulator though, my graphics card is kaput.

[ChadTower]

I have an Asteroids Deluxe, not that it works.  My Space Duel works perfectly, though.

[tetsujin]

I just wish someone would build new vector monitors.  Then I could buy one of those Zektor cards and build a vector only cabinet.

Hell yeah!

Who here has an uncle with an Asteroid machine to compare mame to?

* SirPoonga raises hand

You punk!

Asteroids Deluxe ranks really high on my list of favorites...  anything they do to improve the looks of it is fine by me...  Hopefully if this is as good as some of you are saying then some of the stuff will appear in MAME...  As it stands, being Windows-only I can't play it.

[SirPoonga]

You should look into lasermame 

[Thenasty]

I think the Vector Mame (Peter Hirschberg something like that) was better than this release IMO.
*edit* did I confuse this with somethign else ?

No matter what emu out there to try and emulate this games, you can't compare it to a REAL VECTOR monitor/games.
This would only be the games I like to collect but seems like those monitor are a biatch to fix and prone to failures.

[telengard]

I think the Vector Mame (Peter Hirschberg something like that) was better than this release IMO.
*edit* did I confuse this with somethign else ?

No matter what emu out there to try and emulate this games, you can't compare it to a REAL VECTOR monitor/games.
This would only be the games I like to collect but seems like those monitor are a biatch to fix and prone to failures.

Was it Vector Dream?

[telengard]

The author of the emulator emailed me because he said for some reason he couldn't get confirmed for posting on the forums.  He asked me to post this here:

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Begin quote
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Everyone:

 

Evidently not everyone here has played asteroids in a while. Mame has several horrible problems emulating asteroids and deluxe.

 

Sitting looking at my real asteroids machine:

 

1. Asteroids should not change shape moving across the screen. (Unless the board is broken). They SHOULD look like they have been draw with an etch-a-sketch, PERFECT lines with no jaggies, and certainly no stupid dots at the intersections.

 

2. The only jaggies should be on the ship, and thats where I am not perfect in my emulation. This is caused by the rotational computations by the DVG.

 

3. Ship shots should NOT be little dots like in mame. They should be more like superbright LED's drawn on the back of the screen, and brighten a large portion of the screen, depending on how bright you have your monitor set. Each time an asteroid is hit, there should be blooming at that spot. I cannot emulate that, but I can get close by doing the textured shots. If someone can make a more representative texture, please send it to me.

Mame is a documentation project, it is not out to simulate the true arcade experience. That is what I am trying to do.

Check out my new version THIS WEEKEND, with vector dream noise emulation, new DVG code, and a RECOMMENDED MINIMUM resolution of 1600x1200 (1024x768 is acceptable)

With this release I don't think you can get closer to a true asteroids experience ANYWHERE.
(Except on a real machine!)

Telengard, also force 2x application antialiasing on your card, it will make things look even better. I have working timing code in all my latest emulators, but I don't recommend using it because of the very slight, (but noticeable) stuttering caused by running the monitor at the wrong refresh rate. I am going for perfect emulation/simulation.

All of my programs are tested on 3 varied PC's with real arcade controls. There are LOTS of configuration options in the INI file. Tuning is REQUIRED! to get the best results on your system.


Please Email me if you have a suggestion that makes my emulator look better for you.

Thanks,
Tim (astgl)

[tetsujin]

You should look into lasermame 

Maybe the video clips don't do it justice, but it seemed to me like the scanning rate of those laser projectors was just way too slow...

[u_rebelscum]

You should look into lasermame 

Yah!  Those laser display "guns" are the last of vector monitors.    I've seen laser mame in action:  25' projections anyone?  A little expensive, though.   

[Todd H]

This may be a stupid question, but what roms do you use with this?  I tried my mame roms and couldn't get them to work.  And yes I unzipped them in the correct directory.   

[Lilwolf]

Tempest uses the mame ones.  But you have to modify the ini file to get it to run the proper version.

I haven't been able to get FSAA working in tempest.  I'm hoping to get better results on a 640x480 monitor by getting FSAA at 4x or 16x. 

When I had my ATI 9700 in my arcade cabinet... I could play some fps that looked down right AMAZING with 4x or higher.

[telengard]

This may be a stupid question, but what roms do you use with this?  I tried my mame roms and couldn't get them to work.  And yes I unzipped them in the correct directory.   

You have to change the ini file to play tempest rev 3.  It's default is to play the multi tempest game menu or something like that.

~telengard

[Witchboard]

I'm running Tempest rev3 @ 1600x1200 and I'm not getting the shots displayed.  Anybody else having a similar problem and a possible fix?

[telengard]

I'm running Tempest rev3 @ 1600x1200 and I'm not getting the shots displayed.  Anybody else having a similar problem and a possible fix?

I think there is also a setting for the 'dot size' in the ini file.  Try increasing that.  How does it look at that resolution.  I'm not sure my video card can go that high.

~telengard

[Witchboard]

It looks pretty good.

[XtraSmiley]

Wow, that looks sharp!  I have mine at max res and it looks sweet.  I'm working on a VectorMAME machine, but in the meantime, this is awesome.  Thanks!