ArcadeVGA = what card?

[payment_due]

What Video cards are usually used for ArcadeVGA cards?

The cards from ultimarc (while reasonably priced) are a little high for me to buy, and people on eBay always have "Buy it now for 4 million dollars".

My question stems from this, I have access to lots of older video cards, some over a couple of years old, and if i can find the certain kind I need, maybe I can 'make' my own ArcadeVGA card?


Also, how hard is installing an Ultimarc J-Pac?

[OSCAR]

There really is no easy substitute for the ArcadeVGA, it is in a class by itself.

There are methods of connecting older video cards directly to an arcade monitor, namely AdvanceMAME  or by using TSR's such as the Mon-Arc drivers.  ArcadeOS also has native support for some video cards (older ATI's) so you display MAME directly to an arcade monitor without additional hardware.  The ArcadeVGA is still the best "out-of-box" solution available, however.

You may want to check out the PC2JAMMA project, as well as the Mon-Arc website for more info.

[pointdablame]

I think you're misunderstanding that "ArcadeVGA" is a specific video card... and not an idea.  As Peale said, there really is no substitute.  You can use any old card (pretty much) to get MAME up and running, but as far as connecting to an arcade monitor with the least amount of grief... the AVGA is what you want.

My advice is to save your pennies and get the ArcadeVGA.

[SirPoonga]

As Peale said

Looks like Oscar to me

To add on to what Oscar said about older cards.  You will be stuck running DOS and DOS mame if you go that route.  Possibly linux and advmame.

[Kook]

I use the Trident Blade T64 in my cab, with a 25" arcade monitor. It works very well with ADVMAME running under Windows 98se (I use the blade15 program from the mon-arc site to make the card work with my arcade monitor). I chose the Trident because it was cheaper than the arcadeVGA, and the review over at EasyMAMECab said it had vibrant colors, great 2D performance, etc. Of course the drawback is that it always wants to run at the wrong frequency, so I have to tolerate a scrambled screen when booting up, and if any software crash makes the blade15 program stop working... well, scrambled screen again. The JPAC seems to protect my monitor when this happens.

I wouldn't rule out the ArcadeVGA. It is probably more compatible. I am curious as to how its performance, color, and tweakability compare with the Trident Blade. Anybody out there tried both cards?

Oh, to answer your other question, the JPAC is very easy to set up. Get one. It's almost a no-brainer if you have JAMMA cab.

Kook

[OSCAR]

Anybody out there tried both cards?

I have, hence, that is why I wrote that the ArcadeVGA is in a class by itself. 
Seriously, no comparison.


SirP is 100% correct, if you go with an older card, you pretty much have to stick with DOS or AdvanceMAME.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, depending on what you want to do with it.  I recently started experimenting with an older system to just run a few games like Pac, Galaga, D Kong...  If your setup is with a vertical monitor like the one I was toying with, then I found there is no need for hardware stretching, the old ATI Rage II was able to fill the screen completely with DOS MAME with every vert game I tried.  In my particular case, an ArcadeVGA would have been overkill.  I could get the Rage II to do everything I wanted, and the card like was $8.  But if you are looking to put together a system that will do it all, play vertical games on a horizontal monitor, the latest games supported in MAME, and so on, then the ArcadeVGA is money well spent.

[payment_due]

Well, basically my thing is I'm going to build something about 1.7 gHz or so, probably a celeron, with about 256mb of RAM.

I'd like to actually run DOS and the DOS version of MAME, as I would rather not worry about booting into Windows at all as it would have a faster bootup time, as well as not hog resources.  So in this case, I would probably end up using something like ArcadeOS or something similar.

My cab is an Astro City cab, with a 29inch arcade monitor.

Well, thanks for the help you guys. I'll just need to hold off and buy one of the ArcadeVGA cards.

[wpcmame]

I'm not saying that it is easy but with powerstrip (www.entechtaiwan.com) you can use any modern ATI (and probably NVidia) card to run regular mame.

I use Radeon9200 and WinXP in my cabinet and it works fine.

[Tritoch84]

He speaks truth. The AVGA is a 9200 with some setting changes in bios. With a little work, you can make the 9200(even the se) do whatever the AVGA can, and more.

[wpcmame]

you can make the 9200(even the se) do whatever the AVGA can

No, you can't get the bios startup or windows welcome screen to display in 15KHz. If you don't have a JPAC or similar you will feed the monitor with 31KHz until all drivers and powerstrip is loaded.

[AndyWarne]

He speaks truth. The AVGA is a 9200 with some setting changes in bios. With a little work, you can make the 9200(even the se) do whatever the AVGA can, and more.

That is not the case. The ArcadeVGA is more than just a card which will send a 15Khz signal. The BIOS contains 30 resolutions for MAME, all at 15Khz and other features such as ability to display text modes at 15 Khz. Also you will have a problem with a low dot-clock limit if trying to configure equivalent modes in Powerstrip on a standard card. Try it...
Andy W

[elvis]

OK I've been following this thread for some time, and have one question in particular:

I've got a cab with a 15kHz monitor that I've fixed up, which cost me next to nothing.  I'd love an ArcadeVGA, but to be perfectly honest it's a little expensive for my taste.

I've managed to configure a linux install to boot into a 15kHz frambuffer mode using an old card (the easymamecab site documents this quite well).  So everything from when the kernel gets loaded onwards runs at modes the monitor can handle fine.  I'm using AdvanceMenu and AdvanceMAME, so no problems there.

My question is, what is the potential damage that those few seconds (and I mean definitely less than 10) of the BIOS and POST screens can do to my monitor?  Obviously it's being fed a >15kHz signal, even if it is only for a few seconds.  Am I seriously reducing the life of the tube?

If so, then I'll save my pennies and go the AVGA.  But if not, it's not an expense I care for, as I can do without for 99% of the things I've configured.  This is definitely not a criticism of the card, nor Andy.  It's just in my current situation money is a little tight, and if I can save a few bucks, it would make a big difference.

I guess if all else fails, I will probably just have the monitor on a separate switch, and wait a few seconds after I hear the post beep before turning it on manually.

[Silver]

To cut a long story short, it depends on the monitor. Different monitors have different protection circuits to stop them from frying when fed an incorrect signal.

Most modern PC monitors will blank out when you feed a signal beyond there specs (easily tested in display properties, and un-check "hide modes this display can not support). However, I've seens monitors that blank but emit nasty high pitched whining noises.

I do not know how an arcade monitor would react. I know some are fine, but I would also hazard a guess that they are less likely to have protective circuitry....

Anyway, seeing as you have a happy gaming setup up, I was going to suggest it would be simpler to simply have your monitor powerd up after your kernel has booted. You could do this several ways - all cheap:

1) manually - add a switch and flick when ready (annoying)

2) Add a timer relay circuit that inly powers up your monitor after 30seconds or however long it takes to boot. loads of info on the web for simple circuits like this.

3) control via software through a com port. I think Advancemenu may even have features to do this, or at least run an app once its started. You could make a relay to switch on the monitor when you send a signal from your parallel/serial port, and just wire it a cable.

[Thenasty]

With my old setup using Ge-Force ti46???, I just turn the cabinet on and I have it done it for years with no problem frying the monitor. Since I boot directly to DOS, it only took 15sec for my menu to come up in 15khz mode.
I have now move up and got AVGA cause of some inconvience involve in my old setup, which was booting to windows so i can transfer some files but I need to turn monitor off in doing so. Also I was thinking of trying out some PC DOS games but that it will not happen cause I decided that it will be strickly for Arcade games in my cab.

[M3talhead]

...Also I was thinking of trying out some PC DOS games but that it will not happen cause I decided that it will be strickly for Arcade games in my cab.

Dont get into that fight with yourself. In the end, you'll make the wrong chioce......and lose.

[subcriminal]

I'm pretty sure my ArcadeVGA isn't a Radeon 9XXX. I think it's a 7000 series which really sucks if it is because if I'd have waited it seems as if 9200's are being supplied now. I've removed the second VGA connector and sticky heatsink to find out what the hell it is but I'm still none the wiser!

ID ME!

[dabone]

I can't read the print on the chipset.
Could you type it out please?


Later,
dabone

[SirPoonga]

well, considering it isn't the same card in their current online picture I would guess an older one, not 9200.

[Silver]

Yes the older ArcadeVGA's were based on the Radeon 7500, new ones on the Radeon 9200.

For 2D use, there is no measurable performance difference between the cards. For 3D, the jump is massive.

Note if you are using a modern OS there is no reason you could not stick a modern PCI card in and use that for 3D, and the ArcadeVGA for Mame I believe...

[rockmes]

I use the Trident Blade T64 in my cab, with a 25" arcade monitor. It works very well with ADVMAME running under Windows 98se (I use the blade15 program from the mon-arc site to make the card work with my arcade monitor). I chose the Trident because it was cheaper than the arcadeVGA, and the review over at EasyMAMECab said it had vibrant colors, great 2D performance, etc. Of course the drawback is that it always wants to run at the wrong frequency, so I have to tolerate a scrambled screen when booting up, and if any software crash makes the blade15 program stop working... well, scrambled screen again. The JPAC seems to protect my monitor when this happens.

I wouldn't rule out the ArcadeVGA. It is probably more compatible. I am curious as to how its performance, color, and tweakability compare with the Trident Blade. Anybody out there tried both cards?

Oh, to answer your other question, the JPAC is very easy to set up. Get one. It's almost a no-brainer if you have JAMMA cab.

Kook

l had the same setup and l didnt have issues with my boot up screen, everything was readable and clear. l altered my autoexe and config files to load the tsr drivers from first boot in win98

l loved the trident blade t64 but l wanted to use windows xp and a light gun and xp is generally way better  in driver support .there are no tsr driver available for xp, so l bought the arcadevga card.

easy setup, better performance card for pc games in windows, but same quality.
But you know whats better- a 15-38 khz arcade monitor that l just bought for $800.00 and you can use any of the lastest video card you like

[subcriminal]

Thanks for the reply's.  I had suspicions it might be a Radeon 7000 dual display as it has Radeon VE on the chip then 215R6LAFA12E
                F4475.3   
                0143SS.
The board also has RV100B on it. Not that it really matters what board it is for MAME. I just know it plugs in,  and is the ultimate card for old MAME stuff. Just sucks for 3D!

 

[divemaster127]

The early models of the Arcade VGA were based on a 7000 series, all of the newer cards including mine are based on a 9200, but i agree with everyone here for what it does, nothing is going to beat it, your going to waste a lot of time & never get what you could with a arcade vga, & they are not very expensive, i would just wait & save my pennies
divemaster

[thebrownshow]

I've got to agree here.  Just suck it up and buy an ArcadeVGA.

At some point you have to ask yourself what your time is worth.  I spent literally months digging through manuals and message boards, tweaking my monitor, messing with settings, fighting with DOS sound cards and Windows 98, with only moderate results.

I buckled, bought an ArcadeVGA, reformatted and installed Windows XP, and was playing MAME on my JAMMA cabinet in about an hour.  My cabinet actually even boots up quicker than it did under Win98 in DOS mode.

Seriously, in my opinion, there's absolutely NO reason not to.