BYOAC 2004 Custom Token Design Thread.

[dag2000]

Personally, I don't have an issue with needing to explain a latin phrase to anyone.  As if I don't need to explain my arcade obsession already?

My favorites, in order:

Let the games begin (it has such a nice gladitorial/ancient rome flair)

Ludo Ergo Sum

Building you memories

In fact I would vote to scrap the "No Cash Value" since no one is using these in a commercial setting and go with "Let The Games Begin" on the top and "Ludo Ergo Sum" on the bottom.  They both have that roman/gladiator flavor and latin on a (faux) coin is not out of place.

Don't you guys want people to look at these and ask you questions?  Not like any of us like to talk about the hobby.

just my .02

-Dave

[Chris]

Personally, I don't have an issue with needing to explain a latin phrase to anyone.  As if I don't need to explain my arcade obsession already?

My favorites, in order:

Let the games begin (it has such a nice gladitorial/ancient rome flair)

Ludo Ergo Sum

Building you memories

In fact I would vote to scrap the "No Cash Value" since no one is using these in a commercial setting and go with "Let The Games Begin" on the top and "Ludo Ergo Sum" on the bottom.  They both have that roman/gladiator flavor and latin on a (faux) coin is not out of place.

Well, I may be misunderstanding the whole point of this project.  My thought was that this was to be similar to Surgeville's excellent token, which is personal to him but looks like it could have come out of a real game room.  None of my arcade experience ever included Roman gladiators, Lord of the Rings, or kewl slogans everywhere.

[patrickl]

What's so different about a "kewl slogan" like "Good for extended play"?

Besides, what's wrong with a little bit of humor. Surgeville's tokens have humor in them and I think that makes them unique. I understand that my fossil pacman coin face is taking things a bit too far, but on the other hand  I don't see why the whole coin needs to be full with only names and standard phrases.

p.s. I like "LUDO ERGO SUM" instead of "NO CASH VALUE" too

[maraxle]

Well, I may be misunderstanding the whole point of this project.  My thought was that this was to be similar to Surgeville's excellent token, which is personal to him but looks like it could have come out of a real game room.  None of my arcade experience ever included Roman gladiators, Lord of the Rings, or kewl slogans everywhere.

Guys, he's right.  There's no room for fun on this token.  The only acceptable option is INSERT TOKEN IN MACHINE TO PLAY GAME.  It's descriptive, reasonably authentic sounding, and completely devoid of fun.

[Santoro]

Well, I may be misunderstanding the whole point of this project.  My thought was that this was to be similar to Surgeville's excellent token, which is personal to him but looks like it could have come out of a real game room.  None of my arcade experience ever included Roman gladiators, Lord of the Rings, or kewl slogans everywhere.

Guys, he's right.  There's no room for fun on this token.  The only acceptable option is INSERT TOKEN IN MACHINE TO PLAY GAME.  It's descriptive, reasonably authentic sounding, and completely devoid of fun.

C'mon.  There is middle ground.  I really think that the slogan needs to be arcade related.  No one should look at the token and say "WTF?"  Only certain people saw LOTR, and to the rest of us, we say WTF?

It should be fun in an arcade context .  If people say "WTF?" I will lose my shirt.

[DPsx7]

I don't like the latin phrases or LOTR stuff. "The game is never over" is kinda what I had in mind, unless someone wants to go for a line more like "The games will never die", tying into the preservation/MAME scheme. After all, the games do "end" after you run outta chances/lives, ya know? Ha.

If the "No cash value" is going to be used, then a couple of those other lines are too similar. I don't mind that line, but it isn't anything special either.

[Chris]

Well, I may be misunderstanding the whole point of this project.  My thought was that this was to be similar to Surgeville's excellent token, which is personal to him but looks like it could have come out of a real game room.  None of my arcade experience ever included Roman gladiators, Lord of the Rings, or kewl slogans everywhere.

Guys, he's right.  There's no room for fun on this token.  The only acceptable option is INSERT TOKEN IN MACHINE TO PLAY GAME.  It's descriptive, reasonably authentic sounding, and completely devoid of fun.

C'mon.  There is middle ground.  I really think that the slogan needs to be arcade related.  No one should look at the token and say "WTF?"  Only certain people saw LOTR, and to the rest of us, we say WTF?

It should be fun in an arcade context .  If people say "WTF?" I will lose my shirt.

Well, this is your show, so it's up to you.  If you don't want it to go in this direction, you may want to say so now so you don't alienate people who weren't expecting this turn of events.

As for me, if this is the direction people want, this would not be a token I'll be interested in, so I'll get out of your way.

[patrickl]

What's the use of voting if you start to dismiss specific lines upfront? If most people like that line, it has to do with the project. If not then not. So far maybe 3 people have voted for it.

[Chris]

What's the use of voting if you start to dismiss specific lines upfront? If most people like that line, it has to do with the project. If not then not. So far maybe 3 people have voted for it.

You're right.  I was simply trying to move the project forward rather than send it back to sqaure one, and that was wrong.  For that I apologize.

[Pixelhugger]

My votes:

One credit
Free Game (or free play)
or if we really need a "slogan" then  "The game is never over."

I don't feel the need for an actual slogan unless it's pretty universally popular/appealing. The 'one credit' or 'free game' feel authentic to me. There's a reason for them to be on the token. The problem with a slogan IMHO is that it brands the token too much. It will also limit its appeal. After so much work and interest, it would suck for someone who wants to order BYOAC or MAME tokens to not love the end result. Something authentic and simple avoids turning people off. I just don't think that having a specific tagline adds more value to the token for the people who like the phrase than it takes away from its value for people who don't like it. Just my opinion. I really doubt were going to find a single specific phrase that pleases a majority without turning off a decent number of the minority.     I'll buy regardless of the final text, tho for the record I'm no fan of the LOTR reference.

I guess i'd sum it up like this:

We should put the most popular to the final vote, but maybe avoid running any that are specifically disliked by significant numbers of interested members regardless of how popular they otherwise are. I like (obviously) my "Better Living Through Gaming" line but since some specifically dislike it, I don't want it going on the token, or even up for a vote, period.

Edit: In the length of time it took me to write this it looks like the posts have covered most of this ground already.  

[Santoro]

Here's the deal.  I am on my way out for the weekend.  Let's let people propose whatever they want in their top 3.  Let not get involved with critiquing them.  This Sunday evening when I get back we can look at the most frequently suggested ones and create a poll.

If the group really wants something crazy, the pre-orders will determine if I think we should proceed.  

I will be up front though, if the group comes up with a clever arcade related slogan I will be much more comfortable going forward even though there is un-pre-sold-stock.  ( IE I will take more risk if the slogan is arcade related or functional.)  

Fun is good, but I am not willing to foot the bill for it with lost sales due to the "WTF? factor"

Choose Wisely.

Dave

[Kremmit]

Regarding edge text:

Game Not Over (Game Is Not Over?)
One Credit
Good For One Credit (Good For One Play?)

Regarding stipling:

If it's an extra cost for a die with stipling, that helps push towards front stipling only or no stipling at all.  I still prefer front stipling only.

[DPsx7]

It's already $45-$50 a set I think, so any reduction in cost is good. I mean after all it's only something neat to add to the cab, it's not like it's necessary... Stipling and nickel plating might look cool, but is it worth the extra $10+ per set? (I'm sure some will say yes, but I'd rather spend my money on actual games. I might even back out should a poor design/slogan be chosen or the price get too high.)

Anyways, my votes for design/slogan are more or less in, but I'll stop by to see if there's anything new before the vote.

[eb]

One Credit
Good For One Credit
The Game is Never Over

[GadgetGeek]

Let me throw out a thought...what about no motto whatsover?  Just  remove the lettering and make the image fill the whole side of the coin?  We still would have BYOAC on the one side and a pretty cool looking design on the other?

[Pixelhugger]

Because a few people have expressed a preference for the Atomic design, I thought I'd blingify it in case its included in the voting. So it's apples to apples with the two now.

In thinking about it, Santoro if you want me to mock up anyone elses logos used in the voting (so they all can be compared in a matching format) let me know. I'd just need the designer to provide me with a 600x600 pixel black and white jpeg.

I'll check back Sunday night since I'll be offline most of the weekend.

[MinerAl]

Well, we need to winnow down the list.  I think we have more than enough choices, so unless Santoro disagrees (it's his show) please vote for three of the ones on the list (including his addition, since it's his show).

I put a new one up because I thought it was kind of funny, and because i'm not particularly moved by any of the ones "on the list."  Why settle for what people thought of early, when we don't have to decide til later?  Something brilliant might occur to someone.

That said...

Game not Over
The game is never over
In games we trust

[DPsx7]

Pixel - That's the design I've had my eye on. I hope it "wins", but at least now I know it'll be in the vote and looking good.

More ideas...
Memories saved by MAME
Great games revisited
The games will live on...
Keep the games, keep the fun

[froggerman]

Because a few people have expressed a preference for the Atomic design, I thought I'd blingify it in case its included in the voting. So it's apples to apples with the two now.

In thinking about it, Santoro if you want me to mock up anyone elses logos used in the voting (so they all can be compared in a matching format) let me know. I'd just need the designer to provide me with a 600x600 pixel black and white jpeg.

I'll check back Sunday night since I'll be offline most of the weekend.

It is probably too late for this but I would like to see this atomic logo with MAME instead of BYOAC and the slogan Better Living through Gaming. Just for comparison. I think this might also have the potential to sell to more people.

For the other side I like the One Credit for the top instead of No Cash Value and The Game is Never Over for the bottom.

[dag2000]

---warning - long winded blathering ahead---

I didn't mean to start a flame war (or at least our very well-mannered version of one).  I was trying to respond to some of the blanket objections that were being thrown out, like not wanting to have to explain the token.

As for Roman/Gladiator flavor, I just meant that these (video) games are about competition.  With each other, with the AI and with the challenges of design that we all seek out and so share something with those ancient "games".  Don't we all want to see ourselves a some kind of kick as warrior?  Even when you play Tetris?  Just a little bit?  I think those slogans captured a little bit of that.  

I'm not suggesting that we make some thing that is so geeked out only a couple of people will want it.  I can't see that happening as this project is another fine example of how the people in this community build off one anothers efforts to produce excellence.

You know, looking at how there rest of the token design has come together from what folks have put together so far, there's no way I'd pass on buying at least one set no matter what the edge text winds up saying.

A few folks have really taken the lead with this and deserve a lot of credit, but I also think part of what is making this so fun and cool is the way it seems to be bringing everyone together on a project in  a way that would usually be impossible.  It would be great if we could all hang out together in Saint's garage and build cabs together and this project is the closest I've gotten to that feeling.  I love it and hope there's more to come.

I don't think anone has really meant to bully, but sometimes it sounds like - "that sucks, if you do it that way then I am out" and kind of like a threat.  I think folks can express their dissatisfaction without going to those kind of extremes.

I think the LOTR line was suggested mostly in jest and folks quickly jumped all over it.  That kind of response may tend to discourage people from contributing their ideas.  I wouldn't like to see less contribution.  

And, I'm not sure anyone HAS to indicate their dissatisfaction with a given suggestion.  The project has come this far mostly by people contributing to a consensus of what is good or appealing.  I think if people continue to indicate what they DO like, we'll wind up with great tokens to buy without making anyone feel bad about their suggestions.  If somebody comes up with a bad idea, others won't sign on and it'll sink as good ideas float.

When you brainstorm, no idea is a bad idea because even the most ridiculous thought may spark someone else' inspiration.

Again, just my two cents and thanks to everyone

-dave

P.S. I still like Let the Games Begin and Ludo Ergo Sum

[mahuti]

"Game not over" drives me nuts. It reminds me of "got milk" or "you've got mail" .... really badly worded statements.

There've been plenty of other acceptable suggestions.

"Not redeemable for cash"

maybe I'll add some later. I'm watching 12 monkeys.

[dag2000]

or "Not Redeemable for Beer" either!

[Calawala]

Pixel,

I have attached a zipped file (change extension...) of the two designs I posted: Player 1 bathroom, AmericanDemon's PacMan.   Black and White 600x600 jpg's as requested.   I removed the slogans so that you can put in whatever suits you.

/shrug -  I like the current designs, but it will be interesting to see these blingified

- Calawala

[patrickl]

In thinking about it, Santoro if you want me to mock up anyone elses logos used in the voting (so they all can be compared in a matching format) let me know. I'd just need the designer to provide me with a 600x600 pixel black and white jpeg.

If it's not too much trouble, could you do mine too? I wonder how the rounded electrons will look when shiney.

PatTokens.zip

[patrickl]

How's this for a design:

 

[maraxle]

I think the LOTR line was suggested mostly in jest and folks quickly jumped all over it.  That kind of response may tend to discourage people from contributing their ideas.  I wouldn't like to see less contribution.  

I most certainly submitted it in jest.  Had I known it would cause such a fuss, I would have left well enough alone and kept quiet.  Rather than cause any further disruptions or hissy fits, I'm going to crawl back into my hole now.  (A hobbit hole?   )

[KevSteele]

For the other side I like the One Credit for the top instead of No Cash Value and The Game is Never Over for the bottom.

I like this - I don't think the "No Cash Value" is needed, and this gets both a credit message and a slogan on the coin. Good idea!

Speaking of slogans, it's not like tokens don't have them -- all the Chuck E. Cheese ones have "Where a Kid Can Be a Kid" on them. I realize the slogan may be a contentious point here, but I hope we can include one.

Kevin

[patrickl]

I don't think anone has really meant to bully, but sometimes it sounds like - "that sucks, if you do it that way then I am out" and kind of like a threat.  I think folks can express their dissatisfaction without going to those kind of extremes.

How precisely is it a threat to say "I'm not interested in buying tokens with LOTR references on them"?

 And I presume, since you appear to have no interest in having something that feels like it came from a real arcade, that you'll be including Latin and gladiator pictures on your Galaga bezel?

Chris,

Will you knock it off already? Latin phrases are used for loads of things to sound cool and the phrase "ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL" has nothing to do with LOTR (well only third hand anyway). If you don't like it then don't vote for it, but stop trying to muscle everything you don't like out with a huge load of (nonsensical) arguments and vague threats (and yes openly stating you wont buy them is a threat).

BTW I don't see what dag2000's Galaga bezel has anything to do with this. Didn't even know he had one actually.

[Chris]

---warning - long winded blathering ahead---
I'm not suggesting that we make some thing that is so geeked out only a couple of people will want it.

Which is exactly where this is heading.

I don't think anone has really meant to bully, but sometimes it sounds like - "that sucks, if you do it that way then I am out" and kind of like a threat.  I think folks can express their dissatisfaction without going to those kind of extremes.

How is it bullying to mention that I'm not interested in buying a token with a LOTR reference?  I wouldn't dream of forcing you to buy a token with an actual arcade reference, and I'm sure Santoro wants to know if a particular choice will turn off potential buyers.  

Since people don't want negativity or criticism, though, perhaps people who just don't care should say "I'll buy it no matter what it says", which is just as useful information.

[Chris]

BTW I don't see what dag2000's Galaga bezel has anything to do with this. Didn't even know he had one actually.

He doesn't.  I misread it as your post.  I've edited that out.

[Calawala]

Chris,

I guess it is just the way it came out.  It sounded like an ultimatum.  Especially so since you are one of the co-designers of the coin, which sorta makes you hold a special place in this project, so naturally a lot of people would like to see you happy with it.   Also, I think that part of the resentment may be because since you already hold a big piece of the design pie, you would try to "muscle" your opinion (as important as it is to us) in such a manner.

Personally I think ONE COIN TO PLAY THEM ALL has enough meaning to stand on its own.  It's just too bad that it was derived from the LOTR slogan.   I'm not so attached to it though and would be just as happy with a pair of functional slogans such as NO CASH VALUE, GOOD FOR ONE CREDIT, etc.  I too think that this coin should be authentic-arcade first, cool personable slogan second.

- Calawala

[Chris]

I guess it is just the way it came out.  It sounded like an ultimatum.  Especially so since you are one of the co-designers of the coin, which sorta makes you hold a special place in this project, so naturally a lot of people would like to see you happy with it.   Also, I think that part of the resentment may be because since you already hold a big piece of the design pie, you would try to "muscle" your opinion (as important as it is to us) in such a manner.

Well, I have forwarded my original art file to Pixelhugger, so I no longer hold any piece of the design pie.  Thank you for your kind comments.

[patrickl]

In all the mayhem I missed Pixelhuggers new rendition of the Atomic BYOAC logo (see reply #335). Looks very good ...

[Calawala]

Well, I have forwarded my original art file to Pixelhugger, so I no longer hold any piece of the design pie.  Thank you for your kind comments.

Nonsense.  Pixel is just touching it up so that it is consistent with the front side.  You deserve recognition for the kick-ass design.

[dmsuchy]

How about if we scrap all the phrase, slogan stuff all together and have the BYOAC with the pacmans on one side and Pixel's MAME atomic image on the other side? I know people run other emulators beside MAME, hell I have Atari, Sega, Nintendo, Virtual pinball just to name a few, but MAME is what I'll be slugging tokens into for the authentic arcade games I rember. I'll leave it at that, I have to go practice on Joust so I can beat my buddy the next time he comes over!

[Rom]

_{edit: blinged it and it looked like crap. removed.}

[patrickl]

Nice one too!

Maybe we should have sets of several different coins. Or an annual coin design event  

[Magnet_Eye]

Because a few people have expressed a preference for the Atomic design, I thought I'd blingify it in case its included in the voting.

This ones kicks ass. I think this on the front, and the atari guy on the back, with a new slogan.

Game Not Over is NOT a good slogan IMO.  

[Pixelhugger]

How about if we scrap all the phrase, slogan stuff all together

I think it's becoming somewhat clear that putting a slogan on the token is almost the same as coming up with an official slogan for BYOAC itself. I think that's why the discussion has gotten so charged. This same issue stalled the t-shirt thread absolutely dead in its tracks for MONTHS. And it never did end up going anywhere. Ultimately Frosty did his own thing since nobody could decide. I "vote" again for something broad enough to feel authentic without limiting appeal or isolating absolutely anyone. The old "less is more" thing.

and have the BYOAC with the pacmans on one side and Pixel's MAME atomic image on the other side?

I think Chris' Atari guy is best suited. I really like it's personality and design. Putting Mame on the other side feels like a distraction... trying to make the coin too many things at once. That said, I appreciate that you like it dms! Maybe I'll win the lottery and run some custom Mame tokens in the future.

I absolutely LOVE the idea of an annual design contest. I'd probably buy set or two EVERY time. The collectability factor alone is reason enough for me. The collaboration with other people on artwork and all the thread following (and drama) is too. Something about waiting to see the next design pop up in the forum gives me the same sort of feeling I had as a kid when I got to a previously unseen intermission in a game.

I've never watched a thread in the artwork forum with as much activity as this. My email notifications have been going off like so much Jiffy Pop. I go to post and by the time I finish typing several other posts have appeared. I second the call for making this an annual thing. Great idea.

[Chris]

edit: blinged it and it looked like crap. removed.

Perthaps the lines were too thin.  Mine looked awful in the first few iterations until I realized that thin lines just won't work in this application.  Remember that it's getting sized down to less than an inch across in the final product.

Thicken up the lines that define the cabinet, and reverse the rim so it's a series of bums rather than a series of depressions.  It should "bling" quite nicely at that point.  It's a good overall design.

--Chris