BYOAC 2004 Custom Token Design Thread.

[DrewKaree]

I also like the idea of the Atomic logo on one side, with the Pac-Man logo on the other.....both sides with BYOAC on 'em.  

Also, the Player 1 guy in the "O"....is there a way to make that look concave, like the button?  To me, as it is right now, it looks like a convex button, which looks a bit unnatural to me.  I dunno if it's possible to do it, but seeing what I have thus far, I've got to believe it is.

I'm all for scrapping any and all "slogans" and making the image larger, EXCEPT for "www.arcadecontrols.com" and "build your own arcade controls".  What about putting those two things on BOTH sides instead of a slogan?  Pixel or Chris, can either of you work that up so others can see what it'd look like?  I think if folks could see the simpler design lines of that, more might want to scrap the slogan altogether.

Personally, I don't understand why it's not obvious that MAME should be used for someone's token design on a MAME site.  Since we are all posting about this on a BYOAC site, keep it specific to this site.  

Sure, the majority of folks ARE using MAME, but the reason they're here is that they wanted to Build Your Own Arcade Controls to use with their cabinet.

[SuperRabbit0]

I am not interested in these tokens (I don't have a coin mechanism) but I have enjoyed this thread immensely...

Anyways, I took the kids to Chuck E. Cheese tonight and paid special attention to their tokens.

The one thing that I thought was interesting that corresponds to the last few points about an annual run is that all the Chuck E. Cheese tokens had the year on them.  My group of tokens all looked the same but had years from 1999 to 2003.

This might be an appropriate thing to add in lieu of the controversial slogans as well...

[Chris]

I am not interested in these tokens (I don't have a coin mechanism) but I have enjoyed this thread immensely...

Anyways, I took the kids to Chuck E. Cheese tonight and paid special attention to their tokens.

The one thing that I thought was interesting that corresponds to the last few points about an annual run is that all the Chuck E. Cheese tokens had the year on them.  My group of tokens all looked the same but had years from 1999 to 2003.

This might be an appropriate thing to add in lieu of the controversial slogans as well...

Years have definately come up for the reverse.  The original thought was that we didn't want the dies to be useless after a year, but you're right; if we're going to do an annual coin, I think a year becomes a must.

[Chris]

For more on Chuck E Cheese tokens, see http://users.pullman.com/fjstevens/tokens/cec/CECdesigns.html .

[Chris]

Alright, here's a coin reference and a useful motto on a BYOAC token:

"IN SAINT WE TRUST"

[DPsx7]

You guys still want to toss out "MAME" and keep a more game-specific Pac-Man design instead? Or is it that you just want an instantly recognizable icon for whatever reason?

I still gotta go with the atomic logo. And in Santoro's interest, he's gotta be able to sell what he buys. Having BYOAC as a theme will limit sales to users here. Going with something a little more generic but still customized enough to be interesting would enable him to sell it to people here and still have a good chance of selling the excess to other MAME'ers who don't visit these forums.

Who says we need a logo on the token? Lots of places have text in the center, so maybe that's another design idea you guys can play with. If not MAME, try one of the backgrounds that were created and have a saying in the middle like "emulating games always" or "Bringing the past to the present" (they suck, but you get the idea).

[Chris]

Who says we need a logo on the token? Lots of places have text in the center, so maybe that's another design idea you guys can play with. If not MAME, try one of the backgrounds that were created and have a saying in the middle like "emulating games always" or "Bringing the past to the present" (they suck, but you get the idea).

The earlier argument against this was that some people have real, non-emulated machines in their game rooms.

My machine is heavily MAME-themed, so I would like a MAME token, but I'm happy with a BYOAC token with either the Pac-Man or Atomic fronts.  The Atomic front could be good because I think it would look better unstippled, which is cheaper. The Pac-Man version really benefits from the stippling, which is more expensive, but is easily recognizable (the atom suffers a tad under the logo).  Both are fabulous works of art.

[SuperRabbit0]

Man, who'da thunk some people collect Chuck E. Cheese tokens?  Very neat site...

Anyways, I gotta ask one dumb question because everyone keeps talking about selling other "Mame'ers" who aren't on this forum.

It seems to me that those people for the most part aren't on this forum because they haven't built their own arcade cabinet, and thus are just playing MAME on their PC.  

So where would they put the tokens?

[Chris]

I've been debating this all day, but I'm going to take a deep breath and plunge back into treacherous water here and propose a solution.

Some people here want a "realistic" game token to complement all the work they've done on recreating a genuine arcade experience in their cabinets and controls.  (Isn't this why we have coin doors in the first place?) I obviously fall into this group.

Some people here want a "fun" experience on their tokens and don't want to waste space on practical things that are pointless in a home game room environment.  Dag2000 falls in this group.

Some people here will be happy with either direction.  Pixelhugger falls into this group.

Some people here don't want to lose their shorts if they offend one of the other groups.  Santoro is this group.  

TIME FOR COMPROMISE.

As shown in previous designs, there is room for two phrases on the back of this token: a smaller one on top and a larger one on the bottom.

Approximately forty phrases have been floated.  About a quarter of them are realisic, tokeny, coinage-related phrases and the rest are various slogans.

I suggest we split the phrases into these two groups for voting, and put a realistic, tokeny phrase on the top and a fun, slogany phrase on the bottom.

For the remainder of this thread until Santoro returns, we all suggest one to three phrases from each group, either existing phrases or new ones.

In order to fit, the top phrase should probably be no longer than 18 characters (This takes "GOOD FOR EXTENDED PLAY" out of the running, which should make many people happy), and should be related to the value (or lack thereof) of a token or some other expression that would be found on a real coin.   The bottom phrase should be no longer than 28 characters; it really should at least tangentially related to arcades, or Santoro may find it to be unsaleable. (Note that if the top and bottom that are finally selected are maximum length, one will have to give, as these sizes assume both slogans won't be maximum size.)

Nobody criticizes anyone's ideas.  This is purely a brainstorm and popularity gauge.  Our sole option of expressing dissatisfaction with a choice is to not mention it as one of your favorites.

If you will buy a set no matter what a token says, please say so.  This is probably important information for Santoro.

Since we are now talking about an annual series of tokens, it is possible that a date will be added to the central design, so it is not necessary to "waste" one of your text votes for a date, unless you feel strongly that the date should be on the rim instead of in the central design.

Can we make this compromise and continue to move forward, or do we need to wait for an "executive decision" from Santoro?

Presuming we can move forward, here are my choices under the new guidelines:

TOP:
NO CASH VALUE
ONE CREDIT

BOTTOM:
WHERE THE GAME IS NEVER OVER
WHERE THE GAME NEVER ENDS
THE GAME IS NEVER OVER

--Chris

(Edit: Changed choices for bottom)

[TheGatesofBill]

That seems to be a good compromise. Myself, I'll buy it no matter what it says after I manage to make it to the bank.

[Chris]

Here is the the Atari back, modified to include the date and to include a different slogan.  Since we're now talking about a potential series, I've also added my initials in tiny print to the back; I think PixelHugger should do the same on the front.  It can easily be removed if people dislike it.

(Yeah, I don't have the bling.)

[TheGatesofBill]

I think that the date should be added to one side. Even if this isn't done annually I think it would make the coins a bit nicer.

[Calawala]

TOP:
NO CASH VALUE
ONE CREDIT

BOTTOM:
errm...I'm to tired to think... at this point I just want an authentic type coin... so anything authentic sounding... whatever that means... I dont think I'm being much help here.. good night

[maraxle]

I would never buy a token that says "IN SAINT WE TRUST" on it.  At least some people would get the LOTR reference, but nobody would have a clue as to what that's supposed to mean.

[Kremmit]

I suggest we split the phrases into these two groups for voting, and put a realistic, tokeny phrase on the top and a fun, slogany phrase on the bottom.

Chris-  I'm a bit concerned with this arrangement; it pre-supposes that everybody wants a "tokeny" phrase on top and a "slogany" phrase on the bottom.   I think it's a great idea for everybody to vote for 3 phrases from each group, as that will narrow it down to everybody's favorites from each group. From that round of voting, I propose that we take the top 3 from each group, giving us a "final 6".  Then vote again on our favorites from the final 6, without separating groups.  This accopmlishes two things:

a) if it turns out that the majority really does want two "tokeny" phrases or two "slogany" phrases, that will show up in the voting.

b) people who voted for phrases that got cut in the first round still have a voice in the final selection.

I also think "no edge text" and "just stars/pac-men/whatever" are viable options for the space we're arguing over, and should be included in the voting options.

----

On a separate note, I love the addition of the initials at the bottom of the cab- just like the "FS" under Jefferson on the nickel! (below quoted from http://www.kcshop.com/CoinInfo/Jefferson_Nickels_Coin_Pictures.htm )

Both the obverse and reverse were designed by Felix Schlag.  In 1966, his initials FS were added below the bust.  

I expect to vote for this design, whichever edge text option we choose!

[Kremmit]

Oops!  Forgot to vote!

No Cash Value
One Credit
Good For One Credit

Game Is Not Over
Ludo Ergo Sum
Blank / Stars / Pac Men

[Chris]

I suggest we split the phrases into these two groups for voting, and put a realistic, tokeny phrase on the top and a fun, slogany phrase on the bottom.

Chris-  I'm a bit concerned with this arrangement; it pre-supposes that everybody wants a "tokeny" phrase on top and a "slogany" phrase on the bottom.  

We already know that everybody does not want that.  This was meant to be a compromise between those that only want tokeny phrases and those that only want slogany phrases.  Since not everyone can get what they want, this is a way to give everyone some of what they want.

a) if it turns out that the majority really does want two "tokeny" phrases or two "slogany" phrases, that will show up in the voting.

Not necessarily.  Since there are far fewer "tokeny" prases than "slogany" phrases, "slogany" phrases will appear to dominate.

I also think "no edge text" and "just stars/pac-men/whatever" are viable options for the space we're arguing over, and should be included in the voting options.

Suggesting a blank phrase for either the top or bottom is a perfectly valid answer.

[Chris]

Oops!  Forgot to vote!

2004

Note: Since the latest suggested plan assumes that the date will be part of the design, I interpret this as a vote for the date to instead appear along the top rim.  Is that what you intended?

--Chris

[Kremmit]

Note: Since the latest suggested plan assumes that the date will be part of the design, I interpret this as a vote for the date to instead appear along the top rim.  Is that what you intended?

Oops, no.  2004 vote was the result of a bad cut & paste.  Post has been edited to reflect correct vote.

This was meant to be a compromise between those that only want tokeny phrases and those that only want slogany phrases.  Since not everyone can get what they want, this is a way to give everyone some of what they want.

Ah, I see what you're getting at.  My way left a possibillity for an "all tokeny" or "all slogany" coin. Your way, neither side wins, but neither side loses, either.  So nobody should complain, or back out of the deal.  Ok, I can live with that.

And to everyone, my apologies for slowing things down.  How is it we got so much great artwork without much controversy, but we're bogged down on the words around the back edge?

[patrickl]

Several alternate suggestions for the top text line were already given by a few people (from message #320 onwards, but I have seen mention of it before as well):
- Let The Games Begin
- Ludo Ergo Sum
- One Credit

people have been suggesting their 3 phrases for the bottom line for a while already.

BTW good to see a series of authentic tokens which all sport a silly slogan (sometimes even more than 1). Apparently it doesn't have to be a geek collection of standard phrases to be authentic after all.

[KevSteele]

I suggest we split the phrases into these two groups for voting, and put a realistic, tokeny phrase on the top and a fun, slogany phrase on the bottom.

The same thing's been suggested earlier in this thread, and I like it. (I changed my vote Friday for a top and bottom slogan - post 276)

Between that and adding the date, I think we've got a winner of an idea. Just the final voting to pick a top and bottom text.

Kevin

[Chris]

How is it we got so much great artwork without much controversy, but we're bogged down on the words around the back edge?

Because it's the easiest thing to change, and the thing with the highest range of possibilities.  We started in the same plae on the front, but once we realize we needed the URL and had to spell out BYOAC, that pretty much got set in stone.  And then the hungry phrases started  fighting it out for the two remaining spaces on the back.

The more I think about it, the more "Where The Game Is Never Over" starts to really leap out at me as the perfect choice.  It fits the whole "game not over" theme; it matches perfectly the spirit of your game room, where you can play to your hearts content; it's a perfect fit for the BYOAC front; and it sounds like it would really belong on a token, much like Chuck E. Cheese's "Where A Kid Can Be A Kid".  And if the slogan ends up being too long, it can be shortened to either "Where The Game Never Ends" or "The Game Is Never Over".  I wish I could find who suggested it.  It may have mutated naturally from kevsteele's "The Game Is Never Over".

I'm going to go back and edit my top three for the bottom to reflect these choices.

I'll  do a mockup with this to see if a phrase that long looks good....

--Chris

[patrickl]

How is it we got so much great artwork without much controversy, but we're bogged down on the words around the back edge?

Because it's the easiest thing to change, and the thing with the highest range of possibilities.

I though there was a call for slogans and that after the weekend there would be a vote on the most suggested candidates (at least I guess it's prudent to wait for the final design to be elected before choosing the slogan). So I guess it's not so much "bogged down", but more going along as planned. Allthough some people seem to be getting ahead of themselves  

[Chris]

Still can't do the bling.... <sigh>

(EDIT: Replaced lousy image)

[KevSteele]

Chris,

I like the new version, quite a bit (especially the designer's initials on the cab  )

The date really does make a nice addition, as well.

Kevin

[MinerAl]

Chris, nice!  Try it with the date under the Y-guy's left armpit.

Also, I know it'll bug some people, but I have (what I think is) a good idea for a slogan:

NO CASH VALUE - HIGH NOSTALGIA VALUE

It could go all the way around one side or half on each side.

I like "In saint we trust" but... talk about having to explain an inside joke!

[Chris]

Chris, nice!  Try it with the date under the Y-guy's left armpit.

Also, I know it'll bug some people, but I have (what I think is) a good idea for a slogan:

NO CASH VALUE - HIGH NOSTALGIA VALUE

Hmmm.....  That has possibilities, too...  I think that's going to turn into one of those "you either love it or hate it" ones...  Nice!

[dag2000]

Chris, I think the most recent version looks great.  I'm all for it.

Although I like the look of the double outer border, what do you think of making it a single border and enlarging the letters?  or I gues the graphic could get bigger alternately.

I think the designer initials should be a little bit bigger or maybe thicker?

I like the date.

Could you do a version with the slogans flipped?  I mean with the one credit as the bottom text and the slogan as the top text.  It'd be good to see both ways, I think.

Just for the record, while I expressed a preference for the "fun" style, I did make clear that I was in no matter what slogans were chosen.

The "compromise" is actually pretty much what you originally proposed.  (see below)

[Santoro]

How's this for a design:

 

Nice.  

[Santoro]

_{edit: blinged it and it looked like crap. removed.}

I'd love to see it.  I am a huge fan of yor arcade explosion work.

[Santoro]

Chris, I think your your approach was helpful, thanks.

I am going to try to put together the polls tonight.  1) for a the 'tokeny" text, 2) for the "slogan" and 3) for Atomic Vs Pac face.

Moderators, please forgive the forum clutter, I am just not sure how else to get a good pulse on the opinions. I would love to have this all nailed by Tuesday AM for ordering.

I can't wait to see these things.

[saint]

I like the clutter

[Santoro]

OK, the polls are up.

[Santoro]

Also, I kinda like the date.  I think we should use it, especially if we want to do this again next year.  That started out as tongue in cheek, but you never know.  This has been fun....

[GadgetGeek]

Question for the infinitely patient Mr Santoro...
If you order both the brass and nickel tokens, will you be selling any lots of half/half? (100 brass/100 nickel)
I'm guessing that depends on what is left after the initial claiming of tokens.

[Santoro]

Question for the infinitely patient Mr Santoro...
If you order both the brass and nickel tokens, will you be selling any lots of half/half? (100 brass/100 nickel)
I'm guessing that depends on what is left after the initial claiming of tokens.

At the moment I can't think of any reason why not.  It would probably be popular.

[AmericanDemon]

I agree Santoro, I think this should be a yearly happening.  It would be a tangible memory piece for everyone involved on these boards.  I'd do such every year.

[froggerman]

Still can't do the bling.... <sigh>

I really like this image. But how about this for a nit? I think your initials looked better on the previous image where they were closer to the front edge of the cabinet. I have no problem with your initials appearing on the image.

[Santoro]

Still can't do the bling.... <sigh>

I really like this image. But how about this for a nit? I think your initials looked better on the previous image where they were closer to the front edge of the cabinet. I have no problem with your initials appearing on the image.

Neither do I, except that I am afraid the mint will say it is too small/detailed to reproduce....  We will cross our fingers.

[Chris]

Still can't do the bling.... <sigh>

I really like this image. But how about this for a nit? I think your initials looked better on the previous image where they were closer to the front edge of the cabinet. I have no problem with your initials appearing on the image.

Neither do I, except that I am afraid the mint will say it is too small/detailed to reproduce....  We will cross our fingers.

I don't expect them to be clearly visible.  However, the initials will be no smaller than a trademark symbol on a "real" token, so they'll be there if you look carefully.

--Chris