First Build: Vigolix Control panel question

[j1345]

The basic Vigolix cabinet is done!  I altered the design just a tad.  The actual height I wanted taller...so it's 60" high...and I wanted it to be a 2 player control panel so it's 27" wide. 

The button holes and joystick holes are drilled already.  Just needing some advice on a first time wiring of the control panel. 

I saw that Xcade has a pretty easy set of 20 buttons plus controller that's no soldering and very easy to put together.  BUT i like the the buttons that have an LED in them like the people over at tinyarcade built theres.  Is it much of a leap to go from the ease of the xcade parts ready to go...to the buying the LED button parts individually and piecing them together? 

Thanks again for this site...helped a lot in my build. 

[Generic Eric]

You'll need to identify the encoder you are using before expecting anything but general advise.  MAME? CONSOLE? OR JAMMA?

Check out this page in the wiki! http://newwiki.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?title=Controls

I'd recommend using the cade if you haven't purchased anything.  Just look at the options!



Not to mention, you could buy an AVR and load the firmware yourself.  You've increased the DIY by a factor of awesome!

[PL1]

Actually, there are more options.

Update your Loader software, GE.




Scott

[j1345]

Thanks!  I'll check out the link...

Looking to build a MAME machine...

[DeLuSioNal29]

Wow!  Great craftsmanship!  I'm in the process of building one myself (almost done) with a 17" vertical monitor and a Jamma 60 in 1 board.  I also have a 20" 4:3 LCD I wanted to build in the future (with MAME) and your project shows how great it looks with bigger dimensions!  Great!

As for the encoder, +1 for the Kade.   (or the AVR minimus).  I bought 4 of them for $5 each and I don't regret it!

DeLuSioNaL29

[Vigo]

Looks really good!  Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[j1345]

Thanks!  I'll post photos when the painting is done... 

The Kade is about $30 each...so it would be $60 for both sets of joysticks.  Is the functionality that much better for MAME games to justify the cost? 

[Generic Eric]

Thanks!  I'll post photos when the painting is done... 

The Kade is about $30 each...so it would be $60 for both sets of joysticks.  Is the functionality that much better for MAME games to justify the cost?

You can load it with a variety of different firmware so that it functions as controller on different consoles, allowing you the capability to reuse it in other projects.

In particular you can use it to connect to a first gen xbox.  There are plenty of options for other encoders.  I've also had a good experience with the keywiz.

[Slippyblade]

The Kade is about $30 each...so it would be $60 for both sets of joysticks.  Is the functionality that much better for MAME games to justify the cost? 

All depends.  You can use a $5 AVR, use the KADE loader, solder your wires straight to the AVR.  Spending the cash through the KADE store supports the work these guys are doing, which is awesome, but it's not the most inexpensive method.  I bought the DIY kit for my first one and loved it.  Totally worth the money.

[PL1]

Thanks!  I'll post photos when the painting is done... 

The Kade is about $30 each...so it would be $60 for both sets of joysticks.  Is the functionality that much better for MAME games to justify the cost?

If you're handy with a soldering iron, you can use two plain Minimus atmega32u2 AVRs and solder on pin headers or long wires with quick disconnects or short wires to euro-style terminals to long wires with quick disconnects.

See this thread for the site with the best prices for AVRs.


Scott

[DeLuSioNal29]

Make it simple:  Just order 2 Minimus AVR's here for $9.99 for both (They come up as $9.99 each but when you get to the end of the checkout process it's 50% off!).  You'll need 1 for each player.

You can then download the loader here.  Plug in the AVR into any USB port.  Run the loader and program the chip.

P.S. - As of this posting the 50% off sale is still in effect!

DeLuSioNaL29

[j1345]

Thanks,  I looked up the minmus AVR and it looks rather complicated for a newbie.  Seems like you need to solder the Screw terminals on the the AVR.  That's a little bit outside my technical abilites at this time. 

If I did purchase the Kade would hooking up LED Buttons hook right into that device?  Or would I need to do something else to power the LED?  Looking for the easies solution. 

I did some searching and can't find simple explanations of how to hook up the LEDs.  I'm playing MAME games via an old laptop. 

[Generic Eric]

Thanks,  I looked up the minmus AVR and it looks rather complicated for a newbie.  Seems like you need to solder the Screw terminals on the the AVR.  That's a little bit outside my technical abilites at this time. 

If I did purchase the Kade would hooking up LED Buttons hook right into that device?  Or would I need to do something else to power the LED?  Looking for the easies solution. 

I did some searching and can't find simple explanations of how to hook up the LEDs.  I'm playing MAME games via an old laptop.

Commonly, you'll need something like the following LED Controllers;
LED-Wiz and LED-Wiz+GP (Groovy Game Gear)
iPAC Ultimate I/O, Pac-LED64, Pac-Drive and U-HID USB (Ultimarc)
Howler (Wolfware Technologies)

If the KADE supports this, that changes everything.  I'm sure Scott can answer that better than I.

[j1345]

Thanks!  I'll look into those..

 

[yotsuya]

I think it'd be awesome if the KADE could emulate the keyboard LEDs to work with LEDUTIL.

[Slippyblade]

KADE doesn't do LED's.  Granted, you can make an AVR run LED's but that would be a project all on its own.  I used one of my AVR's as a test bed to play with an RGB button.  PWM is awesome.

Currently there are only two (that I know of) control encoders that also do LED interface.  Those would be the Ultimarc Ultimate and the Howler.

[PL1]

If I did purchase the Kade would hooking up LED Buttons hook right into that device?  Or would I need to do something else to power the LED?  Looking for the easies solution. 

I did some searching and can't find simple explanations of how to hook up the LEDs.  I'm playing MAME games via an old laptop.

There are two LED options:
1. Single color always on -- KADE has a 5v output that can do this if you don't draw too much current. (Use 12v LEDs for lower current draw -- related thread here.  )
2. RGB/animated LEDs -- Other than a few firmwares that have an external indicator LED, KADE currently only has a "LED sequence (demonstration)" firmware. You'll probably want to get an LED-Blinky compatible LED controller instead.

I think it'd be awesome if the KADE could emulate the keyboard LEDs to work with LEDUTIL.

I believe it is on the team's "to do" list.

Related thread here.

KADE doesn't do LED's.  Granted, you can make an AVR run LED's but that would be a project all on its own.  I used one of my AVR's as a test bed to play with an RGB button.  PWM is awesome.

This thread has the info on how to use an atmega32u2 (same processor as KADE) or atmega32u4 AVR to make an open-source LED-Blinky compatible controller board.


Scott

[yotsuya]

I think it'd be awesome if the KADE could emulate the keyboard LEDs to work with LEDUTIL.

I believe it is on the team's "to do" list.

Related thread here.

Have your homies move it over to "to done". 

[nitrogen_widget]

Make it simple:  Just order 2 Minimus AVR's here for $9.99 for both (They come up as $9.99 each but when you get to the end of the checkout process it's 50% off!).  You'll need 1 for each player.

You can then download the loader here.  Plug in the AVR into any USB port.  Run the loader and program the chip.

P.S. - As of this posting the 50% off sale is still in effect!

DeLuSioNaL29

Sweet. ordered 2 at %50 off to play with.
Do they send out a newsletter or something to notify or do you just guess? LOL!

[j1345]

LED button contstant on question:

Sorry to be so dense here...LOL

I read the replies and also the links to hooking up the LED lights to the Kade.  Seems like I have the know how to do this.

Just to make sure:

My plan is to get 16 of these LED white buttons that would be constant on.

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=338

and hook them up to the Kade as the discussion says to do at this link below. (however the LED button above is 12v is that a problem if I use a self powered USB)

http://kadevice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3864#p6140

If all this works...on more question:

The post says:  "LEDs are daisy-chained in parallel between the 5v terminal on the KADE and ground."  Is there a diagram that shows how where the 5v terminal is?  I think I can find the ground.  LOL

[PL1]

My plan is to get 16 of these LED white buttons that would be constant on.

http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=338

and hook them up to the Kade as the discussion says to do at this link below. (however the LED button above is 12v is that a problem if I use a self powered USB)

From the GGG product page:

Each button comes with a color-matched "superbright" 12v LED
. . .
Power Requirement: Any regulated DC voltage between 5 and 12v. 5vDC may be sufficient for normal installations, with 12vDC being recommended where brighter lighting is desired.

The problem with using the Minimus AVR for this is how much current superbright LEDs draw.

The 12v superbright LEDs from Paradise Arcade Shop draw ~11mA when powered by 5v.  (I don't have any from GGG to test, but they are probably similar)

11mA * 16 LEDs = 171mA.

Haven't found much information on current limitations of the Minimus, but this page mentions that the AT90USB162 (16k version) data sheet claims that at least 50mA is available for peripherals. 

There are two ways to light these buttons:
1. Use a USB power tap cable and these daisy-chains modded to add connections for two more buttons.

WARNING: Do not plug this into an unpowered USB hub since they are only rated for 100mA per port according to USB specs.  It will work fine with a powered hub or a port on the motherboard.

Pic below is the power tap cable since Randy still doesn't have a pic on his site.


2. Use regular (non-superbright) LEDs and an additional current limiting resistor like the right half of the diagram below.

I designed my portable modular CP to run off one USB connection that feeds an unpowered hub--maximum 100 mA current draw per connection.

It uses 3 Button Blaster LEDs with resistors from GGG (BB and R1), 14 LED 12V buttons from Paradise(LB), and an 11 ohm current limiting resistor (R2).

------------5V------------------------>
|     |    |           |     |     |    | 
BB  BB  BB       LB   LB  LB  LB (Total of 14)
|     |    |           |     |     |    | 
R1  R1  R1        -------------------->
|     |    |                    |
|     |    |                   R2
|     |    |                    |
-----------Ground--------

The left side is the trackball circuit, the right side is the buttons.
. . .
This whole 17 LED + resistor configuration draws about 81 mA.

In this configuration (LED Buttons in parallel + R2) the Paradise Arcade regular LEDs draw 3.7 mA each.

3.7mA * 16 buttons = 59.2mA

Use a slightly higher resistor value for R2, and it should bring the current draw down to about 50mA.

You can test the current draw for different R2 values using 8 LEDs -- once you get the 8 LEDs lighting at or below 25mA, you can safely add the rest of the LEDs.

http://kadevice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=3864#p6140

If all this works...on more question:

The post says:  "LEDs are daisy-chained in parallel between the 5v terminal on the KADE and ground."  Is there a diagram that shows how where the 5v terminal is?  I think I can find the ground.  LOL

5v = VCC (upper right corner)



Scott

[j1345]

OUCH!  That's wayyyy over this Newbie's head. 

I thought it would be easier then that.  LOL Was willing to pay a little more to get the constant on LED feature on the buttons.

Looks like i"m going to go with the Xcade complete DIY kit that comes with all the parts (20 buttons, 2 joysticks, controller, wires).  Was trying to do the slick LED buttons but looks like that road requires more skill then what I currently have. 

http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/two-player-build-your-own-arcade-bundle-pcb/

Thanks for the details...showed me there's a lot to learn.  Maybe on my next build I can tackle something like that?

[j1345]

One last try at this:

After reading more on the LED buttons...

Would this work:

Buy the:

I-PAC ULTIMATE I/O

http://www.ultimarc.com/ipacuio.html

18 LED buttons
http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=338

2 Joysticks
2 player buttons

And use a 5v Wall wart to power to plug into the IPAC ULTIMATE I/O? 

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12889?gclid=CjwKEAjwkrmhBRD49Mbm_MvruWsSJAAEDt13b6tWfdX-ompIdt633bqXIdAlxMAOSpI5ue5yfSL1axoC6Gzw_wcB

[dkersten]

Technically you could use a wall wart, but most of the USB ones are only 500-1000 ma.  But going with 20 regular LED's you would only be pulling 400 ma max, so it would work. 

I advise strongly against using the GGG LED's with the ipac UIO.  Use the LED's from Ultimarc, the ultralux are excellent buttons and nearly identical as far as I can tell (slightly more expensive), I have used them in 2 builds now. 

The UIO uses constant current outputs that run 20ma to each LED.  This can cause problems if the LED is not rated to handle 20ma, and GGG won't guarantee that their LED can handle it.  Plus the GGG is a 12v LED, so at 5v it probably won't be very bright.

If you have the money to spend, I would take it a step further and use RGB led's (in the ultralux they are $2 more each), which allows you to light the buttons whatever color you want, and allows LEDblinky to change the colors of the buttons depending on what game you are playing.  You can also set up animations that are pretty cool, and it is all VERY easy to do, particularly if you use Ultimarc's LED's because they are all pre-terminated with the right kind of connector for the ipac UIO.  If you went RGB, you would need about 1.2 amps at the 5v source, so find a wall wart adapter that is about 1.5a or more. 

It might seem overwhelming at first, but it really is very simple, and you have a great resource here to help.

[j1345]

dkersten:  Ok...I'll do it!  What joystick do you rec for a first build from ultimarc? 

If I went with the single color LED from Ultimarc would the 5v Wall wart into the IPAC ULTIMATE I/O be good?   

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/12889?gclid=CjwKEAjwkrmhBRD49Mbm_MvruWsSJAAEDt13b6tWfdX-ompIdt633bqXIdAlxMAOSpI5ue5yfSL1axoC6Gzw_wcB

[dkersten]

Yeah that should work just fine. 

joystick is a tricky subject.  For a good all around stick I would try the j-stick.  If you want to make it fancy (and more convenient), get the servo stik, it is a j-stik with a servo to switch it between 4 and 8 way mode per the game you are playing.  A bit more expensive though, about $30 more per stick once you get the controller (which works for two sticks).  It is controlled by LED-Blinky just like the LED's will be. 

[DeLuSioNal29]

I used a Sanwa on mine, to stick with the Japanese "Viewlix" theme.


DeLuSioNaL29

[j1345]

: DeLuSioNal29:  great colors...can you post a few shots of the finished build?

[DeLuSioNal29]

: DeLuSioNal29:  great colors...can you post a few shots of the finished build?

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,141778.0.html