Self Propelled Automatic "Bartop Arcade" Extrusion Machine (or, my CNC build)

[Typefighter01]

I am done my hissy fit now, so here is how the legs work. I have a 6" M10 Hex cap head bolt that comes up through the bottom of the table, there are two washers on the head, then the table and another two washers, then a nylon lock nut facing down and a nylon lock nut facing up. At the moment, I only need to loosen the top lock nut and spin the bolt from under the table to level the machine, it works better than I planned. I didn't want the table to effect the CNC machines level and square, so only one hole is drilled so the bolt is tight and the other three legs I drilled the holes 1/32" oversize in case the table expands and shrinks with the weather. I have attached another pic of the leg with the lock nut tightened.

In other news, I was one click away from ordering the KentCNC dust shoe until it calculated shipping...$47 ... no way I am paying $50 to ship an 8" x 6" piece of plexiglass and some broom bristles. I will take my wife out to dinner for $50, then just glue a broom to a tupperware container. I will have to figure something out later.

I will start to level the machine tomorrow and add the z-axis...I also picked up some 45 degree grease nipples, so I will install these and grease the ball nuts before anymore assembly.

[ebarlow99]

Very cool! Just ordered my cnc last week! Pretty geeked!!

[macattack]

I have a kent unit on my cnc. Works well

[Typefighter01]

I have a kent unit on my cnc. Works well

Hey Mac,

I have no doubts what so ever on the quality or how well it works, but to get it shipped to my door in Barrie ON Canada, it would cost me at minimum $185, throw in the Hitachi exhaust flange, now were at $200 and this is assuming I don't get dingned with some kind of duty at customs. Who know what price it will end at. Considering it is about $9 in materials, $200+ dollars is hard to swallow. Might make my own...this is BYOAC (or BYOCNC).

Very cool! Just ordered my cnc last week! Pretty geeked!!

What CNC kit did you order?

[Typefighter01]

Items completed today


• installed new grease nipples
• greased all ball nuts
• level up table
• level up CNC machine
• mounted z-axis
• installed spindle mounts
• mounted router
• installed misc set screws and bolts

Here are a few pics of the z-axis and router installed...

[Typefighter01]

I have a small problem  CNCrouterparts.com sells a nice NEMA 23 stepper kit that comes in two flavours. I can either order their 380oz kit, or for the same price, I can order their 320oz low inductance steppers. Even though the 320oz kit would seem "less powerful" then the 380oz steppers, I have been reading up on them and it looks like the low inductance motors will offer a broader torque curve. They are on back-order and I am in no rush, so I think I will wait and order the 320oz kit, the problem is, the 320oz stepper have a 3/8" shaft diameter and George installed 1/4" couplers. The particular couplers he sent are called (I think) "spider couplers", they are two metal halves with a piece of plastic sandwiched between them. They just split apart, so I removed all three sides and took a few pics of them. I know there is no way I can accurately drill the one half out to 3/8", but my neighbour owns a lathe (big sucker too, had it installed into his garage with a forklift) and I am thinking this is something he could quickly throw in his chuck and drill and ream for me. Any thoughts? I know I could order the proper ones, but I am sure he would do it for free and I know it will get done right...

[Yvan256]

I would never attempt to do such a modification without a lathe.

Oh, wait. 

Ask him if he thinks it can be done. He should know his machine.

[macattack]

I wound up stopping using that exhaust flange on mine after I went through 2 mv12c's. run without it now and seems fine. This routers been going 10 times longer. I'm also using those std nema 23's from Ahren. Work great.  Will buy a spindle at some point.

[Typefighter01]

I wound up stopping using that exhaust flange on mine after I went through 2 mv12c's. run without it now and seems fine. This routers been going 10 times longer.

Looks like the exhaust flange might be impeding air flow causing some cooling issues (just a guess). Thanks for the heads up.

Once again, great customer service from George. I had sent him a link to this build thread after e-mailing him about the missing bolts and it looks like he has been following. He has made a suggestion for a stepper kit and I think I will take his advice, here is a link that shows the specs of the 270oz kit he is offering http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-Ship-Free-Ship-to-USA-3Axis-Nema23-Wantai-stepper-motor-270oz-3A-4Lead-CNC-/130835454122?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e766698aa

Only difference between the kit in the link and the one he offers is his comes with a 48v power supply. Considering his price is half of the CNCrouterparts.com kit, I will give it a try (it's actually less than half).

If you are still following...Thanks George

[Typefighter01]

  Stepper Kit showed up today. Again, I went on the advice of George, and ordered the 270oz Wantai stepper kit. Considering the cheap price, I figured at the very least it was a good introduction to CNC electronics. I would provide some exact specs, BTTH, I really have no idea what I am looking at. I know the 270oz steppers are well matched to the size of machine I am building, I know the 48V power supply is a nice upgrade, and from what I have read Wantai seems to have a pretty good reputation (looks like I also scored 2 DB25 cables for free instead of 1  ). What I really need to nail down is all the switch settings on each driver board, were they connect to the breakout board and find a home for every other wire thats hanging off the steppers. No instructions of any kind are included, but I noticed while surfing Youtube that a lot of the DIY videos for CNC electronics are based around this exact or similar kit from Wantai. Here are the spec for those that know and a couple of pics for those who don't...
 
3 PCS Nema 23 Stepper Motor single shaft with 270 oz-in,3A holding torque,4 Leads
3 PCS Stepper Driver with 4.2A DQ542MA replacing M542 ,
1 PCS Power Supply for ???W,48VDC,
1 PC DB25 Breakout Board
2 DB25 Cables

[Yvan256]

CNC machine: check
Interface board: check
Stepper drivers: check
Stepper motors: check
Power supply: check

… why haven't you cut anything yet? 

Kidding aside, here's a real question for you, maybe you wrote about it but I missed it: do you have any routing bits for the M12VC? If you do, which ones? What are the cutting diameters and cutting lengths?

[Typefighter01]

Hey Yvan,

I was just thinking about routing bits the other night while I was starting my spoil board. I guess I will order a precision collet set but as for the cutting bit itself, I was going to come here and ask (maybe selfie will chime in as I have read posts from him before and he seemed to know the difference between upcut bits, downcut bits and compression etc.).

In fact...I will ask him right now...

@selfie-I am going to cut bartop cabs out of 3/4" melamine coated particle board, can you suggest some specs on the type of bit I might need?

@Yvan-Do you have any suggestions on a bit?

I am thinking downcut bit 1/4" or 3/8" diameter and around 2 or 3" long.

[Yvan256]

@Yvan-Do you have any suggestions on a bit?

I am thinking downcut bit 1/4" or 3/8" diameter and around 2 or 3" long.

I would go for a 1/4" bit, for three reasons:
- less dust and particles from the cuts
- less noisy
- you'll be able to cut smaller holes and finer internal radiuses

You will probably want a 1/4" diameter, two flutes (selfie, can you confirm that?), downcut (to protect the top laminate), 1" cutting depth (no need to pay for a longer bit).

Myself, I use a 1/8" diameter, one straight flute (neither upward nor downward), 3/8" cutting depth on my MDX-3.

I also already have a Dremel #650, 1/8" straight router bit for CNC64 and the Black and Decker RTX.

Of course, since you're new to all this, the real first advice I can give is to not buy expensive bits at first. Breaking a 10$ bit is annoying but breaking a 50$ one is worst.

I only buy 10$ bits for both my MDX-3 and CNC64, although I don't think either machine would be able to break 1/8" bits. Both the spindles and the stepper motors aren't powerful enough.

[jbenesh]

@selfie-I am going to cut bartop cabs out of 3/4" melamine coated particle board, can you suggest some specs on the type of bit I might need?

I am putting together a bartop using 3/4 inch melamine right now.  Do not get more than 1 sheet to test.  I am running into a lot of issues with chipping even using a new carbide tipped bit.

[Typefighter01]

@selfie-I am going to cut bartop cabs out of 3/4" melamine coated particle board, can you suggest some specs on the type of bit I might need?

I am putting together a bartop using 3/4 inch melamine right now.  Do not get more than 1 sheet to test.  I am running into a lot of issues with chipping even using a new carbide tipped bit.

No worries jbenesh...this is not my first foray into building cabs out of melamine coated particleboard. Although generally disliked on the forum, I love the stuff. I have built 2 full size MAME cabs, a bartop cab and a visual pinball machine. I actually use white melamine shelving from Home Depot, I usually buy the 30" x 60", but it also comes in 30" x 72"...not only is the particleboard better quality than the regular uncoated stuff, but I can tell you for sure, the melamine coating they use on the shelving is thicker than the regular 4' x 8' sheets. You pay a premium of course, but not painting and having a perfect surface for artwork is heaven to me. Only suggestions I can give you for chip free cutting is...if you are using a circular saw, move your blade up as far as you can so it just cuts both surfaces, and plan your cut so the exposed edge is on the bottom (plan your cuts so exposed edge is on top for table saw). As for the router, make your long cuts with a circular saw, but cut around a 1/4" away from your line, then take your router and a straight edge and slowly route upto your final line. I will post some pics tonight of my MAME cab sides to show you how nice it looks.

[macattack]

To cut melamine without splintering either surface you need to buy a compression bit. I use these on my cnc to cut melamine parts. I agree also the covering on 4x8 sheets is way too thin.

[Typefighter01]

jbenesh-a close-up of one of the corners on my MAME cabs CP. Not a terribly interesting picture, but with patience, every single edge on my cab has a finished edge like this.

[CoryBee]

jbenesh-a close-up of one of the corners on my MAME cabs CP. Not a terribly interesting picture, but with patience, every single edge on my cab has a finished edge like this.

I have no idea what I am looking at.....

[jbenesh]

jbenesh-a close-up of one of the corners on my MAME cabs CP. Not a terribly interesting picture, but with patience, every single edge on my cab has a finished edge like this.

I am guessing it is a difference in the sheathing thickness.  The 4'x8' panel I cut up had a seriously thin layer of coating on it.  The particle board underneath is just fine but edge routing or even using a sacrificial board for drilling holes has left me with some major chipping on the edges.   If I knew earlier that there were options with a thicker coating I would have looked into them.  As it sits now, I think my next cab will be laminated.

[Typefighter01]

jbenesh-a close-up of one of the corners on my MAME cabs CP. Not a terribly interesting picture, but with patience, every single edge on my cab has a finished edge like this.

I have no idea what I am looking at.....

jbenesh is having troubles with melamine coated particleboard chipping on him while cutting. The picture I provided is one of the corners on my MAME cabs control panel. I am trying to demonstarte to him that with patience, it is possible to get chip free results using this product. The way you have been building cabs Cory, you will fly right by Melamine coated particle board and jump straight into laminate 

To cut melamine without splintering either surface you need to buy a compression bit. I use these on my cnc to cut melamine parts. I agree also the covering on 4x8 sheets is way too thin.

Thanks mac, compression bit it is...

[CoryBee]

Thanks for the explanation and something to read as I woke up way too early.

I prefer to do paint but that is because I can justify a few gallons of paint that can do a bunch of cabs but not a little bit of laminate that does 1 or 2 cabs at the same price.

[Yvan256]

Any progress?

[Buick455]

Any progress?

I was wondering the same thing.. Just assume he got it up and running and cant stop playing with it 

[Typefighter01]

Any progress?

I was wondering the same thing.. Just assume he got it up and running and cant stop playing with it 

I wish...I have only had 2 days off in the last month, so I thought I would relax tonight and finish my spoil board tomorrow, but with Yvan and yourself needing a CNC fix, it motivated me to go out and complete it. So I present my finished (still need to trim nylon screws and surface the table) spoil board. Before I get into pics and what I did, I noticed a slight discrepancy on my actual cutting area. I ordered the 30" x 36" Viperxz as it has a quoted cutting area of 24" x 30". Maybe I am naive in the world of CNC, but I didn't think cutting past the end plates should really be considered the "cutting area". To get the full 30", I need to cut around 2" over the end plate (even then it is really only 29" and change and that is with a 1/4 cutting bit. So I am not overly impressed, but again, I am new to this and any CNC purchase in the future will take this into account (see first pic showing overhang to achieve the full 30"). Also, the only way I could reach the full 24" cutting width, would be with a table surfacing bit as I think they are around 1 1/2" wide, but with a 1/4" bit, the actual width is more like 23 1/2", not the end of the world and doesn't change my goal, but I am glad I noticed this now so I can account for the shortfall.

On to the spoil board...I liked both Buick and Mountains ideas on only surfacing the table top once, and then replacing the top "strips" as they get routed and destroyed. My ears also perked up when Mountain mentioned nylon screws as I knew these could be safely surfaced with the rest of the table. I made the spoil board in 2 pieces...the bottom piece I cut to the exact table top dimensions 24" x 36" and it's held down with 16 x M6 bolts and T-nuts. The top piece is cut to the actual cutting area of 24" x 30" and offset 2" over the front end plate to ensure it is centred under the router. The top board is held to the bottom board with sixteen 1/4 x 20-2" nylon screws. MDF does not take well to a tap, but it does not mind having a bolt screwed through a tight hole leaving an "impression" of the threads. I drilled my holes, threaded a metal bolt through the holes and then screwed the nylon screws in. See the next 2 posts of pics as I go through installing one of the nylon fasteners.

[Typefighter01]

Step by step installing nylon screws...

[Typefighter01]

Heres the spoil board installed, just need to trim screws and surface.

I am in the process of building a dust shoe and I should have pics by next weekend. It is more like a pressure foot and does not follow the Z axis up and down, but is adjustable to the table top and rides relative to the Y, google "Vortex pressure foot" for an example. Looks like it will cost me $3.98 to build (I am not kidding, I have everything I need sitting around from other builds, I am just not sure if the lexan I am using is thick enough, we will see).

[Yvan256]

Nice to see some more progress. I hope I can get CNC64 up and running soon because the whole spindle assembly of the MDX-3 feels like it's going to rip apart sometimes. Whoever designed this part was a  .

As for your cutting area, it's usually measured by the center of your cutting bit. I can't wait to see you cutting parts.

[Buick455]

Any progress?

I was wondering the same thing.. Just assume he got it up and running and cant stop playing with it 

I wish...I have only had 2 days off in the last month, so I thought I would relax tonight and finish my spoil board tomorrow, but with Yvan and yourself needing a CNC fix, it motivated me to go out and complete it.

No rest for you!! I do need the fix.. So if we stay on your ass you'll be done by monday? 

I am building vicariously through your build, the wife and I decided we should 're-fi" our house (before rates start creeping back up) so CNC parts are on the back burner for the time being. I did get my steel for the frame/table though, so I guess I'll be tripping over it on the garage floor for a little while.

I also like Mtn's nylon bolts idea, might borrow it myself. The thought of clipping a bolt head with a surfacing cutter makes my teeth hurt.

Keep it up TF!!! you will be makin dust before you know it 

[Typefighter01]

Another CNC "fix" comin' at ya  Took some of that overtime money I have been making and spent it on some computer goodies. I was originally going to use one of two old Pentium 4's I had lying around, both of which had parallel ports, working copies of Win XP and were free. I was then just going to build a CNC control box to house the drivers, breakout board and PS and call it done, but the more I thought about it, the less enthused I was about using 10year old PC's with my new CNC build (or, I am looking for any excuse to build another computer, tinker and spend money needlessly on things I already own ). Anyway, I stumbled on a couple of blogs on the intranet were guys had used PC cases to house there CNC electronics and a few had actually housed all there CNC electronics and PC's in one case...I like the idea of an all in one solution so this is the direction I went. First, a list of what I have and what is on order...

HAVE

• Corsair Vengeance Series C70 Arctic White Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
• ASUS M5A78L-M LX PLUS AM3+ AMD 760G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
• Corsair TX-650M Modular Power Supply

ON ORDER OR NEED

• Corsair XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model CMX8GX3M2A1333C9
• AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX
• Win 7 64bit Home Premium

I choose the case based on its reasonable price, its massive size and the ability to remove the hard drive cages as I knew I would need this space for my drivers and break out board (also, it fit under the table I built and I am a sucker for white). The motherboard I chose I saw used in at least 2 other CNC builds as it has native Legacy port support (parallel and serial), it is a microATX board, so it would also gain me valuable space inside the case and it supports AM3+ procs. The only thing I can see that it doesn't offer that might have been cool to have (for future upgrades) is USB 3 support, but I can't really see how this will ever be a problem for what I have planned. The power supply is modular, 650watts and was on wicked sale. Here are some pictures of the case and a few with it opened up and hard drive cages removed. You can see there is loads of room and I should have no problems with space or ventilation (yes, I know it will be a dusty environment, I have dust control ideas already planned).

[Typefighter01]

Here is a couple of step by steps of me removing HD cages, installing PC power supply, temporarily installing motherboard and test fitting CNC power supply. I can swim inside this case, I will have a home for everything. I am thinking I will mount the drivers and breakout board on a nice piece of plexi and orientate them so the twin fans on front of case will blow right over them, should work a treat. I probably won't have any update until next week as I am still working everyday, but then I get a week off so I will have lots to post...

[Buick455]

Looks like a damn good excuse to buy computer stuff. I talked the wife into letting me build another PC for the living room (youtube, video chat, surfing, watching vids, ect) about a year ago, I haven't been in my office upstairs in a long time, lol.. was it needed, NO, so why did I want it so bad 

I have seen a few people use automotive paper filters for there cases (you know the square/rectangular ones), that and aiming the intake down is my plan. My garage is dusty without my wood tools being used (dirt driveway doesn't help). I would like to build a plexi cabinet (maybe a room with how big it is) to keep the normal dust off the router dust 

[Typefighter01]

I have seen a few people use automotive paper filters for there cases (you know the square/rectangular ones), that and aiming the intake down is my plan.

Thats exactly what I was thinking Buick...considering the case I chose has lots of flat rectangular air vents, I could easily make some simple bezels out of sheet metal and drop a universal rectangular K&N filter in it. This way, I can just pull them periodically, spray 'em off and plop 'em back in.

[Buick455]

update?

[Typefighter01]

I do have a small update...other than the OS, the computer is completely built  . I did make one small change, it looks like if I use Mach 3 for my CNC controller than 64bit windows is not going to work unless I want to use an external motion controller. Mach 3's parallel port driver does not work with 64bit windows, so to make things simpler, I will just go 32bit. Since I am going 32bit, I changed up the ram and went with two 2g sticks and saved a bit of money. I also have most of my CNC electronics buttoned up. I mounted the electronics to a board that bolts to the inside of the PC case and mounted the power supply to the bottom. I even have the back limit switch and stepper I/O plate done, I just need to mount it. See pics...

Speaking of OS's, I was one inch away from installing LinuxCNC (it used to be called EMC2), but I chickened out. I really don't feel confident installing it and I would rather get the machine running and enjoy it than fumble around learning a new operating system.

Next step is to wire the drivers and limit switches to the I/O panel and wire in the power supply. After that, I will make some custom stepper cables, install Mach 3, some kind of CAD/CAM software and then start testing. If everything plays nice, I will go back to the machine itself and start on dust shoe and cable chain.

[Yvan256]

I'm happy to see progress on your CNC setup, but I'm also saddened by the lack of precision-cut, arcade-related parts.

... Oh wait, I'm guilty of the same thing.

Carry on. 

My low-cost TB6560 board will pale compared to your setup. Then again CNC64 will never be a match for your machine either. 

[Rick]

This is nothing short of awesome. I love CNC (have for a while) and am planning (dreaming, wishing, hoping) to have mine set up in the next 12 months... My personal plan is to go with a (ahem) 'larger' format configuration, and I was leaning towards the Blackfoot or greenBull CNC kit. My original thought was that if I went with a larger format (the greenBull can do 6'x10' stock!) that I could effectively use a single sheet of MDF to custom fabricate an almost complete arcade cabinet, or else, mass-produce custom parts without the need to continually replace the stock.

I originally had a CNC machine design in Sketchup I was considering building from scratch, but I figured that my own "STTP3" arcade build took long enough - so I could always build the CNC machine WITH a CNC machine in the future.

I can't wait to see more of your machine in action! (And a huge shout out to Mountain as well - love your setup, man!)

[Typefighter01]

My low-cost TB6560 board will pale compared to your setup. Then again CNC64 will never be a match for your machine either. 

Not so sure about that Yvan. I think my drivers are pretty good quality, but the breakout board that came with my kit...mehhh.

This is nothing short of awesome.

Appreciate that Rick...my goal was to have something cut by Christmas and the more I work on it, the more realistic that goal seems. Just hope it doesn't take as long to get done as the Turkey Puncher 

[Yvan256]

Not so sure about that Yvan. I think my drivers are pretty good quality, but the breakout board that came with my kit… mehhh.

One thing is absolutely certain: your steppers, with 270 oz-in holding torque, are much stronger than mine, which are only 10.5 oz-in. I only paid 4$CAD each for my steppers but you probably paid a lot less per oz-in.

Damn, now I'm curious about the holding torque of the steppers in my MDX-3. 

edit: you should test your power supply, stepper drivers and motors, before installing them on your CNC machine.

[Typefighter01]

edit: you should test your power supply, stepper drivers and motors, before installing them on your CNC machine.

100% Yvan, I have a test bed started on the downstairs living room coffee table. I will post a video of steppers moving once I get everything sorted.

Couple more updates...first, computer is completely finished and runs like a champ  .Installed Windows with nary a hiccup, computer boots up in 15 seconds and other than my graphics (on board), most items scored 7.0 or greater on the WEI (I don't hold a lot of stock in the score, but it is nice to see them all above 7.0). Installed trial versions of Vetric's Cut2D and Mach 3 and I am going to start configuring Mach 3 sometime tomorrow night.

Also, finished soldering and heat shinking all my stepper and limit switch cables. I am using the micro switches out of my MAME cab for testing (cab is not running at the moment, ---smurfy--- X-Arcade switches at that), but a guy at work is going to get me 6 high quality Omron switches with the levers and roller tips.

Since my computer will be located under the router table, and I won't want to be reaching under to hit the E-stop so I thought I would make my own Mach 3 pendant. Nothing fancy at all, just the basics functions that I can hold in my hand. I am thinking:

1.E-stop
2.X/Y and Z jog buttons
3.Pause
4.Start
5.Router Speed-simple plus and minus buttons(I think this is where the SuperPID conversion for my router comes into play)
6.Incremental Jog

I am thinking something like this http://www.lowcostcncretrofits.com/jogremote.html ,just not as childish looking (too many primary colours for my taste), and $400 US  any dime store keyboard encoder and a few buttons and I can do the same thing. I picked up one of those plastic project boxes from Sayal Electronics (there is a store located in Barrie ON for you southern Ontario folk) I am going to use it as my pendant, fits nice in the hand and it was cheap. Here is a couple of pics...

[Yvan256]

That's a lot of hardware, but you're probably still missing an important piece: a dust separator for your shop-vac.

I made a really crappy dust cyclone made with a Chapman's orange sorbet container and vinyl tubing weeks ago and it worked quite well, apart from the tubing being too small and the container not being strong enough to withstand the pressure. But even so, it did separate a huge amount of dust, so I'm working on something better and more permanent.

I've been cutting pieces for a Thien baffle dust separator since this morning, I'll keep you informed about the results.