X-Arcade Tankstick limited button presses (6 button limitation)

[ABACABB]

This came up in another post under a different topic but I felt compelled to give this topic its own thread for those who are thinking a buying an X-Arcade product.

The Tankstick comes with 2 differnt types of connections, USB and PS/2.  The PS/2 connection does not work on most computers and XGaming says it is a voltage issue with the motherboard, that was why they switched to the USB connection.  However if you connect your Tankstick via USB you will have a limitation of 6 Simultaneous button presses.  YES 6!!!! If you happen to be playing a two player game and both players are holding the stick in a diagonal direction (that will use up 4 of your available 6) you are left with 2 buttons that will function simultaneously. I cannot begin to tell you how much this sucks!!  There is not much on the web to support this topic but it needs to be known and there is no mention of this issue on their website.

XArcade has a small test utility that will show you simultaneous button presses and once you get to 6, no other inputs work.  The only exception to this is Alt, Ctrl and Shift.  Those 3 do not count towards your total of 6 so you could get 9 but only if your controls are configured to use those buttons.  If you play games like NBA Jam or NFL Blitz where you are moving diagonally and both players are holding Turbo this becomes a major problem!! 

So I contacted X-Gaming about the issue and here is the return response I got from their technical support:

A response to your recent inquiry Case #19888 is now available. Please use the link below to read the response and reply. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL, USE THE LINK BELOW. If you cannot read the entire response in the case, you can still see the full response in this email. Your case will be labeled as closed when we reply, but it will reopen automatically when you respond and update your case.
 
Case Number 19888
Case Subject Limit on simultaneous buttons
Customer XXXXX
Contact 
Creation Date 1/27/2012, 12:07 pm (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
Case Type 
Case Priority Medium
Case Status Closed
Updated By Jeremy K
Date Updated 1/30/2012, 11:04 am

Click here to reply & update your Case
DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL - IT WILL NOT BE READ/ANSWERED
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message History


There is a USB limitation of 6 buttons PLUS Shift, Alt, and Ctrl, for a total of 9. Using the PS/2 port instead there is no limitation.


Otherwise you could connect it with our PS3 or 360 adapter to make it act like a gamepad instead, which would have no limitation.



-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXX
Sent: Friday , January 27, 2012 12:07 pm EST (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Limit on simultaneous buttons

It seems that there is a limit of 6 simultaneous button presses to be recognized by a computer on the Tankstick. Is there a way around this or do you offer an upgraded encoder that would allow more simultaneous button presses? When playing 2 player games, if both players are pressing a diagonal direction and holding a turbo button, the Tankstick is maxed out and won't recognize additional inputs.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please feel free to contact us anytime, we are always glad to help. Also keep in mind that most any question can be answered on our Customer Service page here: http://www.x-arcade.com/service  


So if you notice at the end of the reply email it says you can use a PS3 or XBox adapter to make this issue go away, "no limitation" is what they state.....Hmmm so I checked their website for this adapter.  I found the adapter BUT there is a disclaimer at the bottom that says:

"USB NOTE:

Please Note: That although the PS3 connection is USB, it will not support connectivity to your pc."

http://www.xgaming.com/store/x-arcade-adapters/product/x-arcade-ps3-xbox-playstation-3-adapter/

Just fu**ing great!  You shell out $200 bucks for a 2 player "arcade quality" controller as they claim but really doesn't support 2-player games all that well.  I wish they would admit this fuckup and offer an upgrade or start offering a Tankstick with an actual joystick encoder with a USB interface so this thing will work as it ALREADY SHOULD!!!     

Build quality: A+
Functionality: Epic Failure!!
 
 

[DarthMarino]

I use PS3 controllers directly plugged into my computer all the time with MotioninJoy.  I'm wondering if this would connect the same way.

[05SRT4]

Finally I have a reason I can use when im getting owned at street fighter!!

I can honestly say that this has never caused a problem for me when playing. I'm not that heavy playing extensive though. I'm sure if I get more into the the 6 button fighters it might pose a problem.

[ark_ader]

I am having a real problem trying to get my head around the problem of not being able to have more than 9 single player buttons on a control panel or games console, never mind having to press them at the same time.  X Arcade has eight + direction per player, most of NeoGeo games are 3 button.

I have never played a game (and I would like people to share which ones that need it) that required 9 buttons to be pressed at the same time.

I think the OP should qualify his argument more than trying to slam a perfectly good product.   

[ABACABB]

I am having a real problem trying to get my head around the problem of not being able to have more than 9 single player buttons on a control panel or games console, never mind having to press them at the same time.  X Arcade has eight + direction per player, most of NeoGeo games are 3 button.

I have never played a game (and I would like people to share which ones that need it) that required 9 buttons to be pressed at the same time.

I think the OP should qualify his argument more than trying to slam a perfectly good product.  

I thought I did a good job of qualifying this in my original post but i guess not so let me break this down for you:

Scenario #1

NFL Blitz/NBA Jam, 2 players

Player#1 holding stick diagonally = 2 switches
Player #2 holding stick diagonally = 2 switches.  Total so far, 4.  Oh yes, the stick direction counts toward the total inputs allowed
Player#1 holding Turbo, total 5.  Uh Oh getting close
Player #2 holding Turbo. Total 6.   Done, you are maxed out.

There are no more button presses allowed for passing or shooting (jumping or stiff arm in Blitz)

Now you say you want to throw in the Alt, Ctrl, Shift inputs for more buttons.  OK let's look at that.  First of all it is much more arcade like to have the controls configured for the bottom buttons of the Tankstick.  The layout there is similar to the arcade and I would prefer to use. For this arguement we'll use the default controls on the Tankstick which follow the top 3 buttons for player 1 and 2.  Same situation where player #1 is holding diagonally and holding Turbo (Turbo is mapped to the Ctrl key so that doesn't count toward the max limit of 6) but player needs to jump at a crucial moment and that button is mapped to the spacebar.  This one does count towards the max limit of 6, so there are 4 switches being used but only 3 of them count towards our limit.  Over to player 2. On the player 2 side, none of the buttons are mapped to Alt, Ctrl or Shift.  Here is where the problem comes in.  Player 2 is moving diagonally (there are a lot of diagonal movements in these 2 games so this is a pretty common occurance).  Player #2 is also holding Turbo.  That is 3 switches being used by player 2 and player 1 was already using 3 switches (not counting the Ctrl button being used as turbo) so we are maxed out and player 2 has no buttons left that will work to pass the ball or jump a defender.  Do you see the problem here?

Scenario #2

Mortal Kombat

Player #1 Performs Sub Zero's special slide move: back+LP+Blk+LK = 4 switches being used already.  This only leaves player 2 with 2 available inputs??  I realize we are talking about a very short time here where these buttons are not available for use but that is EXACTLY what arcade games are about, split second timing and lightning fast reactions.  Because of the limited inputs of the Tankstick, you don't get that.

This may not be apparent from reading this article but believe me - it becomes very apparent within seconds of playing thsese games.

Ark, not sure why you are defending this company so much other than maybe you work there?? I hope you do so you can relay this info and they could address this issue.  There is a communication breakdown somewhere in this place when in one email their tech support tells you one thing but when you go to their website it says the exact opposite.  Again, are you really going to tell me you don't see the problem here??    

So Ark, you can post your apology after you manage to "get your head around" this major problem.

[lanman31337]

Trying to do the Super Combos with games like MVC, MVSF, etc.. require usually three button presses plus a quarter crescent so that alone would eat up 5 there.

[ark_ader]

I am having a real problem trying to get my head around the problem of not being able to have more than 9 single player buttons on a control panel or games console, never mind having to press them at the same time.  X Arcade has eight + direction per player, most of NeoGeo games are 3 button.

I have never played a game (and I would like people to share which ones that need it) that required 9 buttons to be pressed at the same time.

I think the OP should qualify his argument more than trying to slam a perfectly good product.  

I thought I did a good job of qualifying this in my original post but i guess not so let me break this down for you:

Scenario #1

NFL Blitz/NBA Jam, 2 players

Player#1 holding stick diagonally = 2 switches
Player #2 holding stick diagonally = 2 switches.  Total so far, 4.  Oh yes, the stick direction counts toward the total inputs allowed
Player#1 holding Turbo, total 5.  Uh Oh getting close
Player #2 holding Turbo. Total 6.   Done, you are maxed out.

There are no more button presses allowed for passing or shooting (jumping or stiff arm in Blitz)

Now you say you want to throw in the Alt, Ctrl, Shift inputs for more buttons.  OK let's look at that.  First of all it is much more arcade like to have the controls configured for the bottom buttons of the Tankstick.  The layout there is similar to the arcade and I would prefer to use. For this arguement we'll use the default controls on the Tankstick which follow the top 3 buttons for player 1 and 2.  Same situation where player #1 is holding diagonally and holding Turbo (Turbo is mapped to the Ctrl key so that doesn't count toward the max limit of 6) but player needs to jump at a crucial moment and that button is mapped to the spacebar.  This one does count towards the max limit of 6, so there are 4 switches being used but only 3 of them count towards our limit.  Over to player 2. On the player 2 side, none of the buttons are mapped to Alt, Ctrl or Shift.  Here is where the problem comes in.  Player 2 is moving diagonally (there are a lot of diagonal movements in these 2 games so this is a pretty common occurance).  Player #2 is also holding Turbo.  That is 3 switches being used by player 2 and player 1 was already using 3 switches (not counting the Ctrl button being used as turbo) so we are maxed out and player 2 has no buttons left that will work to pass the ball or jump a defender.  Do you see the problem here?

Scenario #2

Mortal Kombat

Player #1 Performs Sub Zero's special slide move: back+LP+Blk+LK = 4 switches being used already.  This only leaves player 2 with 2 available inputs??  I realize we are talking about a very short time here where these buttons are not available for use but that is EXACTLY what arcade games are about, split second timing and lightning fast reactions.  Because of the limited inputs of the Tankstick, you don't get that.

This may not be apparent from reading this article but believe me - it becomes very apparent within seconds of playing thsese games.

Ark, not sure why you are defending this company so much other than maybe you work there?? I hope you do so you can relay this info and they could address this issue.  There is a communication breakdown somewhere in this place when in one email their tech support tells you one thing but when you go to their website it says the exact opposite.  Again, are you really going to tell me you don't see the problem here??    

So Ark, you can post your apology after you manage to "get your head around" this major problem.

You have to do better than two games and NFL Blitz is not a common game to play like SSF.  If that is your only beef with this product then you will be better off with a IPAC, considering how many consoles, games and emulators work with 9 buttons, the product stands up pretty well.  Besides NFL Blitz...is not a game that can be emulated without having a powerful rig, which pretty much negates 90% of X Arcade casual users.

Why am I defending them?  Because the product is very good with excellent customer service.  That said I would say the same thing if you bought a KeyWiz and had the same stupid problem.

I don't have that problem with MK, so it must be unique to you. 

Trying to do the Super Combos with games like MVC, MVSF, etc.. require usually three button presses plus a quarter crescent so that alone would eat up 5 there.

I understand what you are saying but 9 concurrent button key presses, that is pretty unique for any setup, most of the X arcade users are solo gamers with the odd two player action.

That said I never had a problem nor have I heard anyone until recently with this particular problem.  It is unique to say the least.

I'm sure there will more games that come out for MAME that will require more button usage, it will require a specialist rig to run it on, and someone that pours that much money into a setup like that it will not have a X Arcade sitting on their desk.

The controller get slapped enough in this place without putting lipstick on it.

Especially with dual spinners. 

Why put dual spinners on a X Arcade in the first place?

That CP just screams custom.

[ABACABB]

You have to do better than two games and NFL Blitz is not a common game to play like SSF

No i don't need to do better than this.  I don't care how small you think the problem is just because it is not a game you play in particular but I do and I'm sure there are others. NBA Jam and all of its successors are lots of fun and run on a P4 just fine.  I only stated that this is a problem, I spelled it out in detail because it is a problem and it is worth people knowing about before they plop down $200 for this thing.

Just because I only named a few games doesn't mean that's all it is limited to.  I was just trying to give some examples so you see where I'm coming from and how this effects your gameplay.  I'm sure there are lots more scenarios where this gets affected.  AND remember, you don't always get the 9 buttons, that is only in certain situations where those buttons count, usually it is 6 but now throw the directional stick into this and you're only left with 2 buttons.

Why put dual spinners on a X Arcade in the first place?

I did not do this, you must have me mistaken with someone else

[ark_ader]

Why put dual spinners on a X Arcade in the first place?

I did not do this, you must have me mistaken with someone else.

Yes it is odd I goofed on this.  Someone else had the same problem as you have found. 

Curiously at the same time.....

[molton]

Yes it is odd I goofed on this.  Someone else had the same problem as you have found. 

Curiously at the same time.....

yes, quite curious... 

Maybe multiple people are having the problem because it's significant and does in fact exist.

[05SRT4]

I did some tinkering with my I/O voltage settings and nothing worked while use the 2 PS/2 inputs, But I didn't notice that whenever I boot my PC with a PS/2 keyboard attached to the PS/2 config cable on the tankstick (I'm sure owners know what I mean) then both the Joysticks/buttons and trackball work.

I don't know why having the keyboard attached would change anything. Does this work with anyone else?

[05SRT4]

Why don't you just get a computer with a PS/2 port?

 

Its not that it needs a port. It needs a compatible PS/2 port. If I just plug the tankstick in with only the PS/2 ports it works for about 2 secs then stops. mouse and buttons.

[ABACABB]

I did some tinkering with my I/O voltage settings and nothing worked while use the 2 PS/2 inputs, But I didn't notice that whenever I boot my PC with a PS/2 keyboard attached to the PS/2 config cable on the tankstick (I'm sure owners know what I mean) then both the Joysticks/buttons and trackball work.

I don't know why having the keyboard attached would change anything. Does this work with anyone else?

I know this sounds strange but there is something to having a PS/2 keyboard plugged into the Tankstick that may make it work.  There is some mention of this in the X-gaming support topics. My PC does not have PS/2 ports so I bought a PS/2 card and installed it.  My tankstick buttons and stick do not work with the PS/2 port.  I tried messing with it a lot to get it to work, but I just can't make it happen.  Strange thing is that the PS/2 keyboard that I had plugged into the Tankstick did work.  This issue with the limited buttons really does suck so I wish the PS/2 option would have worked out for me.  Maybe I need a different card?  That might just turn out to be a waste of time and money, again since I already tried it once.

[eds1275]

My old x-arcade had this same issue though mine was not the tankstick, it was the 2-player no trackball setup. It only worked for me when I had a keyboard plugged into the PS/2 daisy chain port, and then connected plugged into the PS/2 jack on the compy. It is explained on the X-arcade faq. Well... they don't explain WHY it is this way.

http://www.xgaming.com/support/questions/52/Why+is+my+keyboard+double-typing%2C+sticking%2C+or+freezing+using+X-Arcade%E2%84%A2+on+PS%7B47%7D2%3F

Is it possible that ABACABB [blood code!] isn't using the x-arcade brand ps/2 to usb adapter? The site claims that you must use their brand or it will not work properly.

[05SRT4]

I think I already read the answer but I wasn't sure, Are you running the default setup on the tankstick or a custom setting?

[05SRT4]

Stupid Question, Would the limitation stop if you had a PS/2 to USB adapter?

Ohh just saw the post above.

[ark_ader]

I did some tinkering with my I/O voltage settings and nothing worked while use the 2 PS/2 inputs, But I didn't notice that whenever I boot my PC with a PS/2 keyboard attached to the PS/2 config cable on the tankstick (I'm sure owners know what I mean) then both the Joysticks/buttons and trackball work.

I don't know why having the keyboard attached would change anything. Does this work with anyone else?

I made a custom cable after the original disappeared.  It must have something to do with grounding as it doesn't work with PS/2 without a PS/2 keyboard connected, but works fine with USB via the PS3 2-1 and Xbox 360 via the 5-1 and all the consoles.

I have both the USB and PS/2 versions and have the keyboard problem with the PS/2 version.

[molton]

To add to Pinballjim's post, especially in older PC's, it is not unheard of that unplugging and plugging in a ps/2 device while the power is on can fry a computer.

[ABACABB]

I really wish the PS/2 port would work for me.  I have a friend that originally had his Tankstick plugged in via USB but when we found out the button limitation, he switched to his PS/2 port and now does have unlimited simultaneous button presses.  I have no PS/2 ports but I bought a cheap PCI card with PS/2 ports from Newegg.  It didn't work after several attempts and reboots.  A standard PS/2 keyboard did work in the card though.  Does anyone know if a better card would make a difference here?  On X-Gaming's website, I don't see this PS/2 to USB adapter but I fear that since they are running through USB I would have the same 6 button limitation I am getting now through USB.

[molton]

I know it's ~$40 and a pain in the ass, but you could upgrade it with an I-PAC or a keywiz or something, I installed an I-PAC in my x-arcade

[05SRT4]

I know it's ~$40 and a pain in the ass, but you could upgrade it with an I-PAC or a keywiz or something, I installed an I-PAC in my x-arcade

Its either that or get a new Motherboard for around the same price maybe more.

I think it would be hard to try different PS/2 cards since there isn't really any specs to go off of.

[ark_ader]

To add to Pinballjim's post, especially in older PC's, it is not unheard of that unplugging and plugging in a ps/2 device while the power is on can fry a computer.

This has never happened once.

Most of the time the keyboard doesn't get detected by BIOS.  Rule of thumb is not to plug said device into the computer when running, but that was due to the limitations of the hardware of the day.  Newer boards still do not tolerate PS/2 swaps, but in respect of the X Arcade pass through it does matter if you insert the keyboard after.  It just doesn't work with the PC.  I would think it had something to do with voltage or signal or that is is simply not plug and play.
http://superuser.com/questions/388440/why-is-the-ps-2-interface-not-plug-and-play

[eds1275]

I really wish the PS/2 port would work for me.  I have a friend that originally had his Tankstick plugged in via USB but when we found out the button limitation, he switched to his PS/2 port and now does have unlimited simultaneous button presses.  I have no PS/2 ports but I bought a cheap PCI card with PS/2 ports from Newegg.  It didn't work after several attempts and reboots.  A standard PS/2 keyboard did work in the card though.  Does anyone know if a better card would make a difference here?  On X-Gaming's website, I don't see this PS/2 to USB adapter but I fear that since they are running through USB I would have the same 6 button limitation I am getting now through USB.

On the X-Gaming website they do not sell the PS/2 to USB adapter any more but will gladly sell you a USB upgrade. As much as this bites I suppose it's not a lot of money and the computer world is constantly changing. As a bonus, you do not need to plug in a keyboard if using the ps/2 port on this one.

http://www.xgaming.com/store/x-arcade-adapters/product/x-arcade-usb-adapter/

[erockmonroe]

     I know this is a stale thread, but I felt the need to chime in enough to register and post in case anyone can help. I have a similar issue with my tankstick. My old comp crapped out so I bought a new fast pc, very excited to be able to play a bunch of new mame games without choppiness, I was bummed when I found out that the tankstick didn't work right anymore. I eventually found out it was due to using usb on the new pc, because it doesn't have any ps/2 ports. Bummed.
    To anyone who doesn't believe it ( seems like there are a few here) it IS an issue. Something no one has brought up is the fact that people like to mash buttons, going over 6 buttons with a button masher is rediculously easy, and watching your player on screen flail around not doing what you intend it to do is frustrating to say the least. There are many many games and situations where going over 6 buttons is an issue, this pc is on my dedicated arcade, it is almost always running 2 players, if Im playing alone I go upstairs to my pc, so yes, the button limitations are a clear problem for some of us.
     So what can be done? I too had thought about slapping a pci ps/2 adapter in my comp till I saw this thread saying it didn't work. I might still try it because I desperately want to fix this problem, but Id like to know if anyone has found any other solutions.  I have been advised I could solder a pc/2 port onto my motherboard, Im not comfortable doing this as I have no skill at it. Buying a whole new motherboard seems tedious. My best bet is to try the pci slot, but I've seen more evidence that it wont work than it will. The guys at Frys told me I could put a com port to serial cable then serial to ps/2 on my motherboard, but when I opened it up no such com port was available. If anyone knows of a workaround or a pci card that is confirmed working for this, please let me know, thank you for your time.

[MonMotha]

Most of non-traditional PS/2 port options I've seen are USB at some point as it's really the only other way to hook up a keyboard that doesn't require special drivers.  I wouldn't be surprised if many of them have the same 6 button limitation.  The only reliable way to get a "real" PS/2 port is to put it on the LPC (or ISA, if you actually have one, but then you probably have PS/2 ports, too) bus, and there's no standard add-in connector for that.

If you can find a PS/2 to USB adapter that doesn't have the boot protocol 6 button limitation (this is quite easy to get around while still being a fully functional USB keyboard), that would work.  This will probably be a trial and error thing.  Other option would be to build up a new PC.  Even fairly cheap non-OEM motherboards still seem to have PS/2 ports on them.

Also, somebody needs to konk the people who made this device over the head.  There's no excuse for having the 6 button boot protocol limitation on something that isn't even an actual keyboard and hence is totally unnecessary during boot.

[ABACABB]

Hey erock, I'm the OP on this thread and I know how frustrating this can be.  I am sorry to say that I did not find an inexpensive way to fix this issue.  I want to build another cab (either driving or pinball) so I needed another computer anyways.  The new cab will not be using the Tankstick so I bought a new pc at BestBuy that had PS2 ports in it.  I am happy to say that the PS2 ports work perfectly and I do in fact have the ability to press all of the buttons simultaneously and they all register. 

Maybe it was just the cheap pci/PS2 card that I bought from Newegg as to why mine wouldn't work.  They offer other cards so maybe one of them would work?

Also, somebody needs to konk the people who made this device over the head.  There's no excuse for having the 6 button boot protocol limitation on something that isn't even an actual keyboard and hence is totally unnecessary during boot.

AGREED!!  Xgaming needs to make a Tankstick with a gamepad encoder.  Hope someone from there sees this thread.  Let's keep it alive until they do! 

[ark_ader]

I have been trying out different X Arcade adapters with the PC.

I did find out something interesting.  If you plug in the Xbox 360 adapter into the 5-1 it works with the PC too.

So I will test it out to see if I can get a different result then the native USB adapter.

I've tried the Xbox PS3 adapter on the 2-1 and PC but it needs special software to recognise it.

[erockmonroe]

Thanks for reviving the thread and trying to help all. Ive confirmed NO pci cards will work. They will all basically get stuffed into the usb 6 button limit code. There are some connections that can be made on a motherboard, but again, im not comfortable soldering. Since I just bought this pc and it runs like a champ I dont want to buy another pc or mess with a new mobo.  Im crossing my fingers on use of the xbox adapters, Ill research and see what I can find, but if anyone can confirm real world that would be great, thanks.

[Slippyblade]

I don't recall exactly where I saw this (in the docs, or FAQS, or something) but I was told/read that the X-Arcade *HAD* to have a PS2 keyboard plugged into the daisy chain for the PS2 connection to work.  I've used my X-Arcade 2 player stick on multiple computers via the PS2 connection and never had a problem as long as I had a keyboard plugged in with total failure to work without one.

[ABACABB]

I don't recall exactly where I saw this (in the docs, or FAQS, or something) but I was told/read that the X-Arcade *HAD* to have a PS2 keyboard plugged into the daisy chain for the PS2 connection to work.  I've used my X-Arcade 2 player stick on multiple computers via the PS2 connection and never had a problem as long as I had a keyboard plugged in with total failure to work without one.

You're right Slippy.  It is required but the problem is that different voltages produced by these pci/ps2 cards aren't compatible with the Tankstick.  So even when there is an actual keyboard connected to the Tankstick it still doesn't work.  Seems like the only way that works is if you have a motherboard with PS2 ports built into it

[erockmonroe]

This is a seperate issue but I will verify it. Ive had issues with no ps/2 keyboard plugged into my tankstick. However this is NOT the issue at hand. From what i can tell any ps/2 run through the pci slot turns into usb anyway, so your still stuck with a 6 button limit ( plus ctrl, alt etc). I have some techy nerd friends Im trying to recruit for this, will report back. I also have grave concerns about the xbox 360 and trackball games etc, I cant seem to find the info on the net and really just need someone to confirm it works, if not Ill bite the bullet and try it. Need to buy an xbox 360 adapter, and also use a button mapping program, but maybe it will work, if so itd be worth it. My nephew and I were playing metal slug and he was literally hitting every button at once on the tankstick, I noticed loss of control and it was lame, but he had so much fun we kept playing, but Id prefer both, y'know? Thanks in advance.

[postmortem]

i mentioned in a previous thread.. what I did to fix the issue was to get an ipac and put it in the tankstick. it works usb with zero lag. hope this helps

[ABACABB]

I also have grave concerns about the xbox 360 and trackball games etc,

If you are talking about plugging the Tankstick's trackball into the xbox adapter, you wouldn't have to.  In my pc with the PS/2 port, I actually only have the joystick and buttons (the keyboard encoder) plugged in via PS/2.  I plugged the trackball into a usb port. 

The reason for this is I have the Aimtrak lightguns as well and they are USB.  Having basically 3 mice plugged in (2 guns and 1 trackball) I was getting some funky operation from my trackball after playing a gun game.  I assumed it was because the mouse was being controlled from different ports.  Once I plugged the trackball in to a USB it all seems to work fine now.

[erockmonroe]

I looked at the ipac and it intimidates me. Anyway you could give a tutorial or let me know how hard it would be to figure out? If that's what I need to do I'm willing to do it but I'm just not sure if I can.

[postmortem]

http://www.xgaming.com/support/questions/54/Advanced+BYO+Kit+installation+diagram+with+wiring+schematic.

here is the wireing diagram for the tankstick.. you just cut the wires and put them into the appropriate spots on thew ipac

[unkpinball]

I'm going through other trials and tribulations with my new tankstick and have one quick newbieish question. If I switch out to the ipac, would it now be possible to map the directional arrow keys to the tankstick joysticks instead of only being able to (try to) map the numlock pad-directionals(8/4/6/2) for joystick control?

Getting the numlock keys to work and stay working with different emulators, and their menus, on the tankstick is driving me seriously bonkers. The arrow keys can't be mapped, and they're the mame and every other emulators in the world defaults. I've spent hours/days on this. Maybe it's just me. 

Thanks!

[PL1]

If I switch out to the ipac, would it now be possible to map the directional arrow keys to the tankstick joysticks instead of only being able to (try to) map the numlock pad-directionals(8/4/6/2) for joystick control?

You can program the I-Pac inputs to whatever keys you want (FAQ here) or use the default keycodes.


Scott

[molton]

check out my old thread where I put an I-pac in my tankstick if you want, heres a link

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,120271.msg1275188.html#msg1275188

[unkpinball]

Thanks for the ipac info. Always thought it was weird that the x-arcade couldn't be programmed to map the directional keys, but could map every other key on the keyboard. They confirmed it as true. Sure would have saved a lot of frustration instead of hassling with the numlock's.

edit: just ordered an I-pac 2, I've had enough of configuration files, kludging with other emulation programs, etc. Hopefully a Saturday afternoon with wire snips, strippers, solder gun and patience will solve all problems. X-arcade ought to just put in an ipac anyways.

Now to google 'how to rip off laminate from particle board without tearing everything up to replace ugly x with cool layout". 

[unkpinball]

Finished installing the ipac2 in my X-Arcade Tankstick. Wish I had done this the first day I bought the Tankstick. Everything works perfectly now with all defaults to Mame, and hardly any configuring.

I did it without any soldering at all, though I might touch up some connections later just to be safe. I marked all the plugin connections to the X-Arcade circuit board on the connections themselves after downloading the 'schematic' from the site. Then unplugged the wires from the connectors using a small screwdriver to push down the tiny latch that sticks up. Did this one socket at a time, one wire at a time. Didn't have to mark wires that way.

It's a pia pulling the wire out of the little white connector, but can be done quickly once you get the hang of it. Then I squished the connector smaller with a pair of needle nose pliers, and inserted it into the proper iPac socket for that button/joystick and tightened down. Probably easier instead of stripping the wires and soldering the end to get a better contact. Only drawback is that if you need to get the connector back out of the iPac for some reason, the 'Chinese Finger Torture grip' that the iPac uses might hang up on the connector.

There were 3 or 4 connectors that weren't long enough to reach the iPac, but as noted elsewhere the trackball has scads of extra wires with multiple connectors on every wire, just snip off a few (make sure they aren't being used) and replace the stock wire on the button/stick connector. I also had to use some to run grounds to a couple far buttons.

Most of the ground wiring I just shoved the bare end connector into another ground 'socket' that was available and again squished with pliers to daisy chain them. After I finished I did a circuit check between the ground connectors of each button and joystick and the iPac two ground screw connectors.

I also realized that I could get two more buttons on the controller by using the now useless ones on the back. Drilled two holes in the upper left after measuring 23 times and installed the button. Using them for pause and escape. See picture.

I could probably do the whole thing in 3 or 4 hours now. Just have to go slow and not lose track of wires. I did one at a time, completing it before moving to next wire.

Then just screwed the iPac down with two screws, plugged it in, along with the trackball usb connector, and booted up. Had to boot twice to get the driver properly installed, after that it worked in Hyperspin, Mame first time.

[eds1275]

Awesome. I would keep the old x-arcade interface if I were you and use it on a single player bartop or mini machine like I did. Or in a jukebox project or something. Maybe not the best for gaming but it's still a good piece of kit for other projects.

[relay01]

Sorry to revive a twice dead thread but I have seen the 6 button limitation as soon as I took mine iut of the box and tested it. 

I have access to ps/2 ports on my computer so wasn't too worried.  What intrigues me most is that if you look at the features for xarcade's BYO kit it says plane as day "No Limit On USB Simultaneously-Pressed Switches" .

One would deduce that either the byo kit is different than the PCB in the tankstick, or its a lie maybe.  I know this cp gets a lot of flack on this forum but other than this concerning problem, this thing's great.

[ABACABB]

Interesting point there Relay.  I think this is new to X-Arcade's site.  I do not recall seeing it before, maybe I just missed it.  But it still should be something for anyone who is thinking of buying this to consider.  Now with that said, I do love my Tankstick.  So easy to setup and use. It has taken some abuse over the last 2+ years and help up great.  The price is also hard to beat.

Perhaps if someone is considering buying this, a call or email to X-Gaming for clarification on this button press issue.  Maybe since so many people have viewed this thread they have changed their encoder.  It would be a wonderful thing if they did!

[BadMouth]

Maybe that's why they had a fire sale on the dual stick a few weeks ago.
I've since deleted the email, but I think it was something like $60 for former customers.
I had no use for it, but seriously considered it for that price.

[relay01]

I contacted the company for this and an issue I had with my unit.  One of the buttons was kinda spongy.  I took advantage of the "fire sale" since my friend purchased something from them and forwarded their promo to me.  So I have presumably a "new" model and I can assure you, the button issue still persists. 

I, like the OP, am loving my tankstick and all the computers I intended to use it on have compatable PS/2 ports.  I really only take issue to the idea that a company marketing to enthusiasts, would be more up front about this limitation.  And having the "typo" (see below) only serves to further confuse their customers.  I'll be interested to see if a new PCB gets release soon or if the typo gets removed from their page. 

Anyway, here's a transcript of our conversation:

Me:
Hi,
I've noticed through usb that there is a simultaneously pressed button limitation on my tankstick of 6 normal keys and 9 with modifier keys. I've read that this is normal for usb keyboards but your BYO kit states that there is: "No Limit On USB Simultaneously-Pressed Switches: Full Native On-Board USB Support"
Does this mean that the BYO kit is different than the PCB in the tankstick? Or am I doing something wrong to have the button limitation. Please advise.

A second issue relating just to my tankstick is all the buttons work great except for one which seems a bit "spongy". It doesn't have the same click as the others. Can I get a replacement button or fix this issue somehow?

Xarcade Tech:
We're sorry to hear that you're having a problem.

That is a typo, as you correctly stated all USB keyboard do have a limitation. However, no games (even the most advanced fighters with 2-players) need more inputs than what it's capable of using the modifiers.

Also the PS/2 connection has no limitations at all.

Please confirm the mailing address for the button. Is it just a standard black button?

Me:

A typo? Wow!
My understanding is some of your competitor's products get around this issue by either having the system recognize the product as a joystick (Which I know your product can do with an adapter) or have the system recognize the product as multiple keyboards with no more than 6 buttons per each keyboard.

Some humble feedback:
I know the 6/9 button limitation is perfectly acceptable for most gameplay. But imagine if you will, an unexperienced userbase playing on your target market's control panel. Unexperienced users tend to button mash, lean on panels and are overall less coordinated during gameplay. 6/9 button limits get eaten up quickly. Your product is the most comprehensive and versitle "complete" control panel on the market. Sure you could buy an I-pac then make your own panel, but your product is complete and works out of the box (that's why I bought yours). Said for this one, glaring flaw your product is amazing. I don't know whether you are just tasked with support or you may have other duties in the company but if you ever have a new PCB revision please strive to resolve this issue somehow. Maybe just bundling a gamepad adapter with your product would suffice but as I said before, 6/9 buttons is really not enough for many scenarious.
<Rest of message redacted for personal info>

[ark_ader]

If it such a big deal get a Xbox 360 kit and use it for the PC.

No limitations.

Like X Arcade said the games you are going to play will not have the issue.  Playing  custom mame roms on it might, but that is your problem, not theirs. 

[ABACABB]

Their response is B.S.!! Easy for them to sit there and say it won't be a problem, but it is.  Anyone who has ever played 2-player NBA Jam, NFL Blitz, Mortal Kombat.....(the list goes on) on a Tankstick realize this quickly becomes a problem. 

Isn't that ironic that they have to make this claim right on their website yet it is not true??

[MonMotha]

all USB keyboard do have a limitation

This is wrong.  All USB keyboards running in the so-called "boot protocol" mode have a 6-button limitation due to the way boot protocol mode operates.  There is nothing in the standard that forbids keyboards not operating in boot protocol mode from having this limitation, and in fact the standard implies that you'd want to have an alternate setting which lifts this limitation.  In particular, there's no real reason for a device that isn't even a real keyboard to support boot protocol mode at all (it's only needed for compatibility with the BIOS, DOS, and Win95).  I have definitely made plenty of USB devices that show up and function perfectly well as a "keyboard" that will let you activate every darn button input on the thing.

FWIW, the standard DOES require that keyboards use "array" format reports i.e. they need to report USB keycodes in an array, not a bitfield, and there's a limit to how big you can practically make a report.  Since each keycode is a byte, this imposes something of a soft limit on the number of button presses, but it's much higher than 6.  Windows XP, Linux, and OS X all support using bitfields ("variable" format main items in the report), and then you only need one bit per key.  For some reason, the standard forbids this (as a specific exception to them normally being freely usable), but it seems to work fine on all modern OSes.

[relay01]

It's okay everyone!  You see, since it's YOUR tankstick and you know about the limitation you instantly have an edge over anyone. 

For instance, say you're playing Street Fighter and you toss out a fireball.  Well, just immediately mash all the buttons on your side and your opponent won't be able to jump out of the way!   

@ark_ader : What do you have stock in the company or something?  You can't tell me that the above scenario is acceptable for an ENTHUSIAST market who focuses on recreation of their original experiences. 

I'm using PS/2 right now and am perfectly happy with it but IMHO why bother throwing in USB support if it isn't complete. 

BTW:  To get around always having to have a bulky keyboard plugged into the back of the tankstick to use PS/2.  I gutted a keyboard for the controller board and wrapped it up in a neat little package.  Now it's sortof like a dongle that I can neatly stash out of sight. :-)

[postmortem]

Back when I was dealing with the issue (before converting it to ipac) I had issues with ps/2 as well as usb AND playstation usb adapter. The playstation adapter added a slight (very slight) button lag. I had the tankstick plugged into the xarcade playstation adapter and then the playstation adapter going to a usb adapter to the computer.

 There were no limitations on ps/2 like there were on usb but sometimes randomly the scroll lock light on the keyboard would turn on and the last button I pressed would get stuck like I was holding it down (even though I wasnt). I tried like 3 or 4 different ps/2 keyboards till I'd had enough and ordered the ipac.

[relay01]

I've noticed some lag with my particular PS1/2 controller to USB adapter when using standard PS* controllers.  I'm not sure whether this was your case but the cheapo adapters leave much to be desired.  I don't even like using them anymore.  If going this route, best to use the 360 adapters IMHO.

As for the tankstick issue.  I had some problems when having both the trackball and joysticks connected via PS/2.  If I rolled the trackball, the directionals would "stick" so I just opted to connect the trackball to usb.  Not sure if this is the xarcade or a ps/2 limitation.  I don't have a standard ps/2 mouse to test with so couldn't verify for sure.

[RandyT]

As for the tankstick issue.  I had some problems when having both the trackball and joysticks connected via PS/2.  If I rolled the trackball, the directionals would "stick" so I just opted to connect the trackball to usb.  Not sure if this is the xarcade or a ps/2 limitation.  I don't have a standard ps/2 mouse to test with so couldn't verify for sure.

Just as an FYI, this is NOT a PS/2 issue.  We have done tests with the KeyWiz, with a special version which disabled the Shazaaam! feature, and wired all of the inputs to a single button.  It registers every one of the 40 available inputs, and does it perfectly.  Issues like this are an implementation limitation, and they are specific to the controller being tested.  Unfortunately, the old adage of getting what you pay for is apt when it comes to encoders. 

It also underscores the importance of doing the research and taking some manufacturers claims, especially with unknown and insufficiently tested products, with a bit of a grain of salt.

[relay01]

As far as I know,
The xarcade products are the only ones that can hook up to one of many game consoles.  That is to say, without hacking a controller.

I'm no computer engineer but to make a product that versatile, you can expect some hiccups/quirks.  I just wish they were more up front about said quirks.

I would however assume that most of their user-base is using this thing on a game console more than a pc and with the bundled games they package in with the product, 6/9 buttons is more than enough.

I'd never go so far as to say the product is untested or a cheap encoder.  It's maybe spread a little thin to support an ambitions list of features.

[RandyT]

As far as I know,
The xarcade products are the only ones that can hook up to one of many game consoles.  That is to say, without hacking a controller.

I'm no computer engineer but to make a product that versatile, you can expect some hiccups/quirks.  I just wish they were more up front about said quirks.

I think there is a difference between "not being up-front" and deliberate misrepresentation.  Unfortunately, this isn't an uncommon occurrence with those who attempt to pit their offerings against existing products which make similar claims, and which also deliver on them.  This isn't marketing hyperbole, or a case of system incompatibility.  It's touting a feature which doesn't exist, so IMHO, it shouldn't be so easy to dismiss.

I would however assume that most of their user-base is using this thing on a game console more than a pc and with the bundled games they package in with the product, 6/9 buttons is more than enough.

I wouldn't use a device with this limitation on anything other than a single player rig, in which case, it would be fine...unless you had the trackball issue described earlier on that same controller.  Technically, the input situation can be made to work, so long as certain combinations never happen, but who wants to think about those things while playing a game?  With a two player control, with 6 buttons each, 20 inputs are required just for the main controls.  Of the 20, 16 should be limitation free.  On a joystick, only 2 inputs can ever be used at the same time, so configuring those to non-modifiers would be the best route.  But once you do this, this leaves only 2 non-modifiers for buttons.  The are 8 modifiers, but of those 8, a couple are keys which probably shouldn't be used as controls, as they are special to the OS.  So that leaves 6, which means at the end of the day, you are still short 4 proper inputs on the 2-player, 6-buttons each panel.  Technically, again, so long as certain combinations don't happen at the same time, there won't be an issue, but the moment both players move their joysticks to diagonal position, and each hits a non-modifier button, or one player hits two, any further activations of the non-modifier defined inputs will be ignored until one or more of those are released.

While it sounds esoteric, it does happen in fighting games, even with the above "optimal" configuration.  The real issue is that the controller is configurable, and when the user who thinks these limitations don't exist does not configure the panel optimally, the  situation becomes much worse.

I'd never go so far as to say the product is untested or a cheap encoder.  It's maybe spread a little thin to support an ambitions list of features.

That isn't just limited to the controller being discussed.  I can point to several examples in the past where claims like this were made, and the controller didn't deliver on those claims.  Some were eventually fixed, after hapless customers were left holding a poor product, while others just went away, after vehemently defending the claims which simply were not true.  This indicates a lack of proper testing, or perhaps simple ignorance as to what these claims actually mean, and the ramifications they have for the user.  In this case, it appears that the company knows those claims are not factual, yet this is not reflected in the marketing material.  IMHO, this is worse.  If they have taken steps to remedy the situation, and it is factual for current products, then that's fine, but it would probably be a good idea for folks to make sure for themselves at this point.

[ark_ader]

@ark_ader : What do you have stock in the company or something?  You can't tell me that the above scenario is acceptable for an ENTHUSIAST market who focuses on recreation of their original experiences. 

I beta test devices for them when they want me to.  I have all the consoles here to test them on.  I could be a good reseller too, but I'm sure gremlin would be upset.

I find that if you have games like NBA Jam you did not actually buy a board and copied the rom or purchased a licensed rom.  I bet its a rom you got on your internet travels, a console port maybe (like in CoinOPS) but any roms that is in Mame, which is unique or exotic you have to build a device to accommodate it.  It goes without saying.

Welcome to Build You Own Arcade Controls!  You want to play something exotic, build the controls yourself.  X Arcade products are designed to work with different platforms with off the shelf games.  Not every game imaginable.     

X Arcade is designed for classic arcade titles and consoles.  Moaning about how you need more the 6 button key presses for a game is ridiculous.  Play an average console game such as the Xbox 360 and you will not reach a six button requirement.  It takes a fraction of a second for the event to be registered so if you mash your buttons that could a problem right there.

I like what X Arcade provides, and so do many other users.  Yes I can make my own CP and use KeyWiz or Jpac encoders.  If you want to play NBA Jam head on over to Randy or Andy and give them some of your business.  Good luck wiring it up to your console with user switch-able digital/analogue controls though. 

[x-arcade]

Just a heads-up that in response to feedback and extensive beta-testing with customers, we've quietly updated our PCB in Feb, so USB connections now support 12 simultaneous button presses (or 15 with the modifier buttons)
http://www.xgaming.com/pages/new-x-arcade-pcb

This new revision board is included in all X-Arcade Tanksticks or BYO or PCB kits purchased after Feb, 2014 and will be incorporated into any Solo/Dual purchased after Dec 1st, 2014. 

Other updates:
15 Simultaneous Button Presses
New chip design  can handle 12 simultaneous inputs/key commands and 3 additional using the modifiers (CTR, ALT, SHIFT). 

Change Programmed Modes Without Pressing Load Button
Due to feedback from customers, we removed the requirement to press the load button to change modes (which could be difficult if your controller or PCB is mounted in a cabinet), modes are changed (and loaded automatically) based on the position of the Mode switch.

Uses Arrow Keys For Player 1
No more issues with pressing the num-lock key as this board uses the arrow keys (not num-lock keys).

Improved Speed
Newly designed board circuitry provides performance and speed matching any current encoder. 

Any questions or comments, feel free to contact support at xgaming.com