Anyone Else Jazzed About the New Avengers Movie?

[shmokes]

Dude!
Characters have been dying and coming back for years, Superman just happened to make the news

Shrug . . . I'll stop pretending to be an expert on the subject since I don't, and never have read comics. Most of my knowledge comes from cartoons, films, word-of-mouth, etc. It seems to me, though, and maybe it's just from how well-publicized it was, that Superman started it (it being, if nothing else, the modern practice of death/resurrection in comics). This also appeals to my common sense, because any comic book publisher who saw how much money the Death of Superman issue generated obviously took notice. Even if it's true that death/resurrection has been common in comic books, I think you know that Superman changed the dynamic.

[knave]

I think there's a bit of over-analysis going on. Superman represents fantasy, it's totally subjective. I loved him as a kid...but I also Loved Batman! Their was room for both in my toybox. What's wrong with enjoying a story where the hero is obviously dominant. Most stories also end with the hero winning...I was pretty young when I learned that pretty much all the shows I watched ended predictably...I still enjoyed them though.

I will go see Avengers, and will probably like it.

[shmokes]

What's wrong with enjoying a story where the hero is obviously dominant.

Because any story worth telling has conflict and resolution. And the greater the conflict, the more satisfying its resolution. Imagine a movie where a man is pitted against the mosquitoes in his house. And whenever he sees one he swats it. And then after a while they're all gone. Not very interesting. Now imagine that the mosquitoes have evolved and are now able to organize and be evil and create an actual threat. Now you've got a horror movie. It's probably still a bad movie because it's such a stupid premise, but you see how the threat changes things. It creates conflict. It matters.


Edit: A good example of this that I often use is Lara Croft vs. Indiana Jones. They're basically the same character, but Lara Croft is comparably boring to watch because she is effectively invincible. She runs into a room full of people shooting at her with absolutely no fear, oblivious to the bullets, as she does backflips off walls double-fisting her guns and picking off the bad guys one-by-one. Indiana Jones, on the other hand, is reckless, but very vulnerable. He gets beat up and brushes narrowly with death all the time. He frequently terrified. And because of this, his stories have genuine conflict and (with the exception of the ---smurfing--- retarded last one) because of this they are engaging.

[Vigo]

Putting on my English lit. student hat here. Superman does have conflict. You can make the argument that it is obvious to you that the conflict will be resolved, but belief or disbelief is not necessarily where the entertainment value is. Conflict is a vehicle that gives the author something to write about, puts the character in a scenario. It in itself is not necessarily what makes a story good or bad.

The storytelling to get through the story arc is where the entertainment is. Are you really gonna believe that Batman is gonna die at any given issue? I doubt it, but you read it to see how the Joker tries to trump his abilities. As far as Lara Croft vs Indiana Jones...well Lara Croft is not boring to watch  but her movies suck......and because they are poorly written and poorly directed and the acting is garbage and the premise is lame, just like your story of Bob vs a few mosquitos would be.   

If you have ever seen My Neighbor Totoro, that movie is considered a masterpiece. It honestly has about as shallow of a conflict as you can get. Some kid runs down the wrong path trying to give her mom corn and her sister finds her 5 minutes later in the film. That's the entire conflict in the film. The rest is storytelling.

[knave]

Sometimes a story is entertaining on its own merit not because of conflict.

[emphatic]

I give this movie 4/5. I saw it in 3D and that always lowers the score. LOVED The Hulk, especially in NYC.

[shmokes]

The storytelling to get through the story arc is where the entertainment is.

Meh . . . you're just using different words to say the same thing. Storytelling is nothing more than describing the conflict between the protagonist and antagonist, even if the antagonist is an abstraction like a cliff that must be climbed. And the easier the cliff is to climb, the less interesting the story is. Without conflict there is no story to tell.  

[shmokes]

Sometimes a story is entertaining on its own merit not because of conflict.

This doesn't even mean anything. The story and the conflict are not two different things. The conflict is part of the story. And a story with no conflict has very very little merit.

[wp34]

I give this movie 4/5. I saw it in 3D and that always lowers the score. LOVED The Hulk, especially in NYC.

Glad to hear it.  I'm real anxious to see this.  I don't care much for 3D either but sometimes it is hard to avoid.

[Vigo]

The storytelling to get through the story arc is where the entertainment is.

Meh . . . you're just using different words to say the same thing. Storytelling is nothing more than describing the conflict between the protagonist and antagonist, even if the antagonist is an abstraction like a cliff that must be climbed.

The key difference though is there is actually more to storytelling than just conflict. Take Alice in Wonderland as an example. Sure there is conflict with Alice coping where she is, the queen, etc. That has nothing to do with what make's it's storytelling so amazing. It is the fantastic world with strange creatures and nonsensical happenings that make the novel timeless. The conflict was mostly about a girl getting home, but that has nothing to do with why people read the book.

And the easier the cliff is to climb, the less interesting the story is.

Not exactly. I think a great conflict makes storytelling easy, but even a story without much of any perception of overcome difficulty can be excellent. Look at Forrest Gump. It is about a complete idiot who totally Chuck Norris's through life. The entire way they tell you the story is to show you how little conflict the guy deals with. You can look at Baron Munchausen or Prcos Bill any tall tale as the same thing.

[shmokes]

Those tall tales are overflowing with conflict. They entertain by showing the comical and ironic ways the conflicts are resolved. Same goes for Alice in Wonderland. You could hardly have a more conflicted character. She's utterly lost in a world of complete madness. Everything she knows has been turned on its head. Baron Munchausen's stories, while possibly lacking in credibility, certainly don't want for conflict.

I get that there's more to storytelling than just conflict. There's perspective, tension, setting, character, style, and so on. But without conflict you have no story. You have nothing to tell.

[Vigo]

I wasn't saying there wasn't conflict. I was disputing your claim of greater conflict = greater story. Sure there is plenty of conflict, but all of a minimal level or plight to the character. In the tall tales they rode around, kicked ass, and amazed people with great feats. The fact that they kicked ass in such a cool way is what made them memorable.

And that is not to say there Superman doesn't have larger conflict. He has to deal with keeping his identity hidden, worry about a variety of weaknesses ranging from the obvious - different types of kryptonite and having to get energy from the sun, to enemies that can do things from using magic to alter reality to destroy the entire planet. Superman has to deal with enemies using his good nature against him. Threatening those around him. I wouldn't say superman has been crapped on in life as much as Spiderman, but it isn't this effortless task you make it out to be.

[kahlid74]

How the hell is Flash able to kill everyone? What the hell is the Speed Force? The only thing I have ever heard that about was in Kingdom Come, and I thought it was kind of lame, like they were trying to make Flash more powerful than what he was. Im not big into DC, Im a Marvel guy, but cmon. Supes essentially has the same power as Flash does, right?! I dont know who Zantana is.

Also, ANYONE can kill Superman. Thats the cool thing. Batman has beat the crap out of him a number of times.

Zatana is a power house in the magic world.  Lots of stuff there but essentially she's way OP.  Flash is also OP.  It's a misnomer thinking people are as fast as the Flash.  There are also several iterations of the Flash.  The true flash is Barry Allen.  Wally West is close but Barry Allen IS the speed force.  The Speed Force is what allows all movement in the DC universe.  Essentially it's the power of life.  Unrestricted and unfettered and unparalleled.  Barry Allen is infinitely faster than Supes.  If Supes was at full speed, Barry Allens could essentially run circles around Supes, like billions of times lol.  Supes is strong, don't get me wrong, it's just Flash is insane.  Barry Allen/Wally West and the power of the speed force is OP.  They can essentially strip the Speed Force from anything, making you stuck where you stand before you can even think of moving and it's already over at that point.

Yes, Batman has, but they key is to understand thought and movement.  At the end of the day by the time anyone would even consider moving no one can, because the Speed Force just got stolen from everyone.  Like I said, my friend and I had an awesome drunk conversation about this over burgers and brats in the northern Wisconsin winter and Flash won out.

[Vigo]

Never read the flash, but I picked up enough to know he had some crazy side abilities from his speed. If I remember right, flash could go so fast that he could bend time to his will or cross dimensions. Even vibrate so fast that he could travel through solid matter. I think he could also think just as fast as he could run.

I think he also raced superman, but let him win or something because he didn't want superman to look bad, being that he is in the public eye so much.

[Trip]

Watched a cam already.  It's ok....  If you didn't like Captain America, you should probably avoid this one.

[Le Chuck]

...my friend and I had an awesome drunk conversation about this over burgers and brats in the northern Wisconsin winter and Flash won out.

All other arguments are invalid. This has been officially determined by two inebriated cheese heads during a bout of alcohol and cholesterol consumption in the snow. End of line.

[Vigo]

Comic books are now an official forte of Cheeseheads. Right up there with football, hunting, snowmobiling, beer and painting your pickup truck in camo. Ever since Neil Gaiman became a cheesehead, things became official. Now ex-packer Ahman Green is pursuing a film-making career in hopes that one day he can work on a creating a Batman film. no joke.

[Mikezilla]

I give this movie 4/5. I saw it in 3D and that always lowers the score. LOVED The Hulk, especially in NYC.

Glad to hear it.  I'm real anxious to see this.  I don't care much for 3D either but sometimes it is hard to avoid.

ME too! I know my damn girlfriend and other friends will want to see it in 3D though, and that sucks, not only because of the price, but I feel like I dont enjoy it as much. Thats all I wanted to hear though, that the Hulk was rad. I dont know how I feel about Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner, but as long as the Hulk himself is cool, Im ok with it.

Whats the deal with the USA having it open last?! Most of the world has seen it already, WTF Marvel/Disney?! 

[Vigo]

Whats the deal with the USA having it open last?! Most of the world has seen it already, WTF Marvel/Disney?! 

My wife the other day told me that some of her friends were off watching the Avenger movie. My response was "Oh, they scored some early showing tickets? Are they in Hollywood?" She then told me that she was talking about friends in Taiwan and the movies has already been out since the 25th.

I completely thought she was joking. I look it up. Sure enough, she was right. Meanwhile, we see get the film at the very back of the herd....right there with Kuwait and Estonia  .

[shmokes]

Who cares? Your life was just as complete before the movie had ever even been announced. April is too early to kick off the Summer Blockbuster season in the U.S. Or maybe they just weren't keen on competing against the Hunger Games. Or maybe, knowing that the U.S. is by far the most important market, they decided it's useful to have some serious test markets so they can maximize the effectiveness of their advertising campaigns here and get an idea of the demand for 3D vs. non-3D screenings.

In any case, I don't think it was meant as a slight on your nationality. 

[kahlid74]

...my friend and I had an awesome drunk conversation about this over burgers and brats in the northern Wisconsin winter and Flash won out.

All other arguments are invalid. This has been officially determined by two inebriated cheese heads during a bout of alcohol and cholesterol consumption in the snow. End of line.

It was later in the day, after the Bikini Snow Mobile races.  Good times were had by all.

[HollywoodTX]

So excited...We are doing a run of all the correlating movies then the movie at 12:01. I love midnight showings!

[Vigo]

...my friend and I had an awesome drunk conversation about this over burgers and brats in the northern Wisconsin winter and Flash won out.

All other arguments are invalid. This has been officially determined by two inebriated cheese heads during a bout of alcohol and cholesterol consumption in the snow. End of line.

It was later in the day, after the Bikini Snow Mobile races.  Good times were had by all.

  I love Wisconsin. I hope it was nippy out that day. 

[Rando]

So excited...We are doing a run of all the correlating movies then the movie at 12:01. I love midnight showings!

Awesome!
So watching both Iron Mans, Captain America, Thor, and... which Hulk?

And in what order?

Melt your brain! 

[Drnick]

I think I may go for a movie marathon on Friday and then head out to watch the movie, gonna go with the 2d version as it saves money and saves my eyes.  As for the order of watching It should go in the following order. (Or at least my belief is this is the best order to watch them in).

Hulk (Ignore completely, no correlation with Avengers movie)

Iron Man 1
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Thor
Captain America
Avengers

[Trip]

Ironically, I think Hulk has the best two scenes in the entire movie.  It's a weak plot, decent action, really cheesy, and a lot going on to show all at once.  Group movies are hard to get right and they didn't do it completely.

[Mikezilla]

Ironically, I think Hulk has the best two scenes in the entire movie.  It's a weak plot, decent action, really cheesy, and a lot going on to show all at once.  Group movies are hard to get right and they didn't do it completely.

So far this is the only negative review I have heard. Everyone else, even movie snob critics says its awesome.

Who cares? Your life was just as complete before the movie had ever even been announced. April is too early to kick off the Summer Blockbuster season in the U.S. Or maybe they just weren't keen on competing against the Hunger Games. Or maybe, knowing that the U.S. is by far the most important market, they decided it's useful to have some serious test markets so they can maximize the effectiveness of their advertising campaigns here and get an idea of the demand for 3D vs. non-3D screenings.

In any case, I don't think it was meant as a slight on your nationality. 

Its the principal of it Shmokes. I dont think the last week of April is vs the first week of May is going to be that much of a difference when concerning "Summer Blockbuster season". The Hunger Games has been out since March. The points you make are understandable, but not really valid, considering its only a week. I sincerely doubt, considering how word of mouth gets around with social media etc, that they would really rev up their marketing campaign, spend all that money, over a week. The only thing I would say that would be accurate would be the 3D test. Cmon, its an American property, made by Americans, and the rest of the world sees it first?! Kinda ---smurfy--- if you ask me. 

[wp34]

I think I may go for a movie marathon on Friday and then head out to watch the movie, gonna go with the 2d version as it saves money and saves my eyes.  As for the order of watching It should go in the following order. (Or at least my belief is this is the best order to watch them in).

Hulk (Ignore completely, no correlation with Avengers movie)

Iron Man 1
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Thor
Captain America
Avengers

They are doing marathons in the theater in some of the bigger cities around the country.  Nothing close by me though.  I'd like to catch a couple of them on DVD prior to the weekend if there is time. 

[Le Chuck]

I think I may go for a movie marathon on Friday and then head out to watch the movie, gonna go with the 2d version as it saves money and saves my eyes.  As for the order of watching It should go in the following order. (Or at least my belief is this is the best order to watch them in).

Hulk (Ignore completely, no correlation with Avengers movie)

Iron Man 1
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Thor
Captain America
Avengers

Why not

Captain America
The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 1
Iron Man 2
Thor
Avengers

Your list above seems to be organized by the teaser at the end of the film rather than any sort of chronology... unless you only watch the bit after the credits, then carry on. 

[Trip]

Ironically, I think Hulk has the best two scenes in the entire movie.  It's a weak plot, decent action, really cheesy, and a lot going on to show all at once.  Group movies are hard to get right and they didn't do it completely.

So far this is the only negative review I have heard. Everyone else, even movie snob critics says its awesome.

That's hard to believe.

I wouldn't call my review negative, I would just call it meh.

A lot of you will like the first part of the movie.  It's a big what if your favorite superhero fought your other favorite superhero.

The second part of the movie, "the plot,"  is what I didn't like.  You want to watch it right now?  Watch Transformers Dark Side of the Moon and imagine Optimus Prime is Captain America and the rest of the transformers are the avengers.  Substitute the Decepticons and the bad human guy for Loki and some other robotic aliens and you have the end of the Avengers almost plot for plot.

[shmokes]

Its the principal of it Shmokes.

But that's just the thing. Who cares? What's the principle? How would your life be any better if it opened on May 4th in Taiwan? Like . . . how does it even touch your life? Why would the knowledge of someone else seeing it a week before you even register on your radar? I don't understand how you'd be happier if it opened simultaneously worldwide--I mean, you'd still see it on May 4th, but you'd be content knowing that your viewing wasn't be marred by the knowledge that some Asian ---maternal-smurf--- got to see it first?   

[Le Chuck]

Its the principal of it Shmokes.

But that's just the thing. Who cares? What's the principle? How would your life be any better if it opened on May 4th in Taiwan? Like . . . how does it even touch your life? Why would the knowledge of someone else seeing it a week before you even register on your radar? I don't understand how you'd be happier if it opened simultaneously worldwide--I mean, you'd still see it on May 4th, but you'd be content knowing that your viewing wasn't be marred by the knowledge that some Asian ---maternal-smurf--- got to see it first?   

The theatres here that show open captioned films won't show Avengers with subs until it has been open 3 weeks, so all the hearing ---daisies--- get to hear it before the deaf ---daisies---.  Unfair, unfair I say!!!11!1!!

[Vigo]

Its the principal of it Shmokes.

But that's just the thing. Who cares? What's the principle? How would your life be any better if it opened on May 4th in Taiwan? Like . . . how does it even touch your life? Why would the knowledge of someone else seeing it a week before you even register on your radar? I don't understand how you'd be happier if it opened simultaneously worldwide--I mean, you'd still see it on May 4th, but you'd be content knowing that your viewing wasn't be marred by the knowledge that some Asian ---maternal-smurf--- got to see it first?   

1) It is most of the world, not just Taiwan.

2) I have been wanting to watch this movie for a damn long time. It is what my wife wanted to do for her birthday, and thanks to some pencilnecks in Hollywood, we instead have sit and wait for the whole world to watch it first. I have only been able to see 2 movies in the last year and a half since our kid was born and my wife loves comic movies more than I do. We can't just get a babysitter whenever we want, but her birthday we have someone lined up to babysit. So yeah, it does really rub me the wrong way that instead of getting to see the movie like she wants, she has to hear about the movie from her friends overseas.

3) It is simply a bitchy move. It is an American movie, based on American comics, starring a character named Captain America. Only a ---Bad words, bad words, whatcha gonna do? Whatcha gonna do when saint censors you?--- would decide that Americans can't see it, but the rest of the world can. You gotta respect your primary fan base.

4) Thanks for calling my wife's friend an "Asian ---maternal-smurf---". Real classy.... 

[shmokes]

1- Yeah, my post would have read much better had I named each country. The point is the same. It doesn't affect you.

2- Wait, really? Cos you hadn't mentioned that. Did you let the studio know? Cos if they set the release date for May 4th, knowing you had a babysitter for your wif's birthday, that is seriously unclassy. Maybe they didn't know how much she likes comic book movies . . .

3- To be fair, it doesn't just star Captain America. Thor's in there too. Yet it's opening on Earth before Heaven. How do you think god feels?

4- Just so we're on the same page, I want you to know that I was specifically referring to your wife's friend earlier. I see now that it would be easy to read my sentence as referring to any random Asian who has the audacity to see this movie before Americans, but that was careless, frankly sloppy writing on my part. I meant your wife's friend. Well . . . the others too, but mainly her.

[Vigo]

My point is not about the specific date, it is that seeing a movie is a huge deal for me these days. It's annoying that some idiot decided that America doesn't get to watch the movie until two weeks later. Yeah, that move does specifically affect me. My wife thought she could go right away when her friend first mentioned it. Throw in that many of her friends are all going and it is a let down. I have a right to think it is stupid. Just because some asshat on the internet thinks I have no right to care makes no difference to me.

I am sure if a French filmmaker made a French film in France and decided to release to it the whole world except France, there might be some French people upset about it. It is not a big deal that I, or other people care about this sort of thing.

Oh and thanks for clearing up that you exclusively think my wife's friend is an Asian ---maternal-smurf---. I never thought you were addressing any group of people and frankly couldn't care even if you were. I'll be sure to pass on the message to her though.

[kahlid74]

The bottom line is movies are now grossing more overseas than in America.  The latest pirates, harry potter, etc. have all earned more money overseas, so the market is changing.  The USA isn't the center of Hollywood's world these days.  What's funny however is that comic book movies traditionally earn more in America than the rest of the world so this is an interesting turn of events.

Either way it will be released in the USA regardless, so it's all gravy.

[kahlid74]

The bottom line is movies are now grossing more overseas than in America. 

That's why everything is PG-13 these days.   

That doesn't make any sense.  America is considerably more prudish than many European countries.

[shmokes]

It's annoying that some idiot decided that America doesn't get to watch the movie until two weeks later.

That's not how it works. It's not like as soon as the movie is finished it's rushed to market as quickly as possible. The release date was set before the film ever started shooting and it's based on all kinds of factors including the release schedules of all the other movies opening in the US from every studio. Nothing stopped Marvel from opening in the US on April 27th except their decision that May 4 was the best day to open in the US. It's not like they decided to release in the US on May 4th because they think international audiences deserve to see the movie before the US. The date for the US was selected as May 4, and that would have been the date whether it opened internationally a week earlier, the same day, or a week later. No matter when the international opening, even if they decided to not release it internationally at all, your wife's birthday was always bound to be destroyed. Cos May 4th is the date they decided would maximize their profits. They believe so strongly in May 4th that they chose that date, knowing that thanks to the earlier international release date pirated copies would be available via bit torrent a full week in advance of the US release.

[Vigo]

Take a breathe, dude! 

I know they could pick any date they wanted, and I know they have reasons and projections and all sorts of factors placed into their decisions. I never indicated I didn't get that. They did not factor in the perception and image their decisions have on the audience. Bottom line, they might have had reasons, but no matter how you try to justify their actions -- It was a ---smurfette--- move. Because it was a ---smurfette--- move, I don't have to like it. That simple.

And as a side note, no matter what the MPAA says, The US the not the country they are losing money out on due to piracy. China by a longshot is doing the pirating instead of seeing the movie in the theater.

[shmokes]

It was a ---smurfette--- move. Because it was a ---smurfette--- move, I don't have to like it. That simple.

Well . . . it certainly was a move that has prompted a number of people to act like little bitches.