Protest fail

[JMB]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/04/new.york.motorcyclist.death/index.html

I understand not wanting to be forced to do something but I will never understand what the appeal of not wearing one is.

[HaRuMaN]

Darwin award candidate?

[Vigo]

Yeah, the only time I ever skipped the helmet is if I was simply tooling around the 5 block radius around my house. Any time I go out I voluntarily wear a helmet, and if I go on the major roads, I wear a full face helmet. Just kinda a common sense thing to wear a helmet. I have friends who don't wear them. I'm sure to always call them idiots for it, but in the end, it's their decision.

[BadMouth]

Never thought I'd get into it on this board, but I enjoy riding without a helmet.

Here's my take on riding:

It's like sex (no helmet)
...sex with a condom (tiny beanie helmet)
...sex with an oven mitt (full face helmet)

It's all about how much risk you are willing to accept for a given level of enjoyment.
You are already accepting a risk by getting on the bike in the first place.
To me, the added enjoyment is worth the extra risk to ride without a helmet.

I still wear a full face for interstate travel, when it's raining, or when the riding will be riskier than usual.
It's usually more about being more comfortable than safe though.

This story really pisses me off.  I'm afraid he's going to mess it up for the rest of us.
(along with the idiots that drink and ride)

The statistics in that story are somewhat mismatched:

"Motorcycle helmet use dropped from 67% in 2009 to 54% in 2010, according to a press release issued by the Governors Highway Safety Association."
&
"Annual motorcycle deaths have more than doubled since the late 1990s with 5,290 in 2008"

Why didn't they use motorcycle deaths from the same years as they said helmet use dropped? ......because motorcycle deaths have gone way down in the past few years.  Of course, I don't think it has anything to do with helmet use declining, but it shows that they are cherry picking the data.

EDIT: "Across the country, fatalities declined from 4,465 in 2009 to 4,376 or less. The decline comes after a 16 percent drop in 2009, which followed 11 prior years of increases in motorcycle deaths." - From http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/04/motorcyclist-fatalities-down-in-2010.html

Gee, wonder why they chose to use only data through 2008?

4,376 out of a country of over 300 million people (and nearly half of them were wearing helmets).  Quick! Pass a Law!

If they really wanted to save lives and money, they should make it illegal to serve fast food to fat people.
http://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

[Vigo]

I have to agree with your analogy about helmets. Wearing a helmet does take away from the experience quite a bit. I wish I had some empty country roads around me to enjoy. Living in a downtown urban area forces me to "go oven mitt" quite a bit. 

[JMB]

 or when the riding will be riskier than usual.

This seems kind of arbitrary. Are you basing that on the kind of riding you are planning on doing? I respect your choice not to wear one. I don't think it needs to be a law. It's just not for me. I'm the guy you see riding in full gear even when it's 95.

Some interesting information on the subject here  http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/helmet_use.html

[Ed_McCarron]

Meh, if I gotta wear a seatbelt, you gotta wear a helmet.

Or at least sign a mandatory organ donor card to ride without one.

[BadMouth]

Are you basing that on the kind of riding you are planning on doing?

Yeah, I rode the tail of the dragon at deal's gap last weekend and wore full protection except for pants (I wore jeans, but they don't last long sliding on asphalt).  I'd never ridden it before and wasn't sure how crazy it would be.  There are also a lot of idiots that run wide and cross the center line.

I realize that I only control so much of the risk and someone could run me over at the end of my driveway while I'm not wearing protection,
but I've weighed the risks and accepted them.  I enjoy jumping on and off the bike without having to mess with any gear except for the goggles on top my head.

[Dartful Dodger]

I’ll always wear a helmet when I ride. I don't care what anyone else does.

This law is lobbied by insurance companies because they have to pay out more when people without helmets get into an accident. You're only fooling yourself if you think it's about safety, It's all about money. Insurance companies want to take as much money from you without having to spend it on you.

The funny thing is, the loudest people chanting for this law are also the loudest ones chanting against insurance companies.

[BadMouth]

Meh, if I gotta wear a seatbelt, you gotta wear a helmet.

When you were told they were going to pass a law to force you to wear a seatbelt,
did you disagree with it so much that you organized a group to fight it, hired a full time lobbyist & started raising money for political candidates that shared your viewpoint?

If you had, you probably wouldn't have to wear a seatbelt.

Or at least sign a mandatory organ donor card to ride without one.

Voluntarily signed.  

[CheffoJeffo]

[SavannahLion]

This is something that I'm torn on.

Part of it has to do with Sonny Bono and his death. Because of it, lobbyists are pushing for helmets on the slopes. I competed for years and only wore a full helmet during competition. During most training or casual skiing, I rarely wore my helmet. My father was even tougher, competed at a professional level without a helmet until he busted a rib. I treat bicycling and skating the same way. Riding the luge, I tended to wear the helmet.

My wife, on the other hand, is terrified of these sports and insists on a helmet even on the kids in the jogging stroller. :\

Motorcycle helmets are one of those things where I would draw the line at a reasonable age (eg 18) to require helmets. Adults, as reasonable adults go, are just that, adults. How far are we willing to baby adults?

To complicate matters, I know how the motorcycle helmet law in CA was successfully passed. An initial attempt was made to pass the law about oh....30 or 40 years ago and it was handily voted down by voters. A few years later a "leverage" law was passed requiring those under 18(?) to wear helmets. It passed with little protest. What parent doesn't want their children protected? Fast forward about twenty years and the writer re-introduced a similar law that law attempted before. Again it was protested but the law passed anyways. What happened? Those kids who were required to wear helmets are now adults themselves and outnumbered the people who did not wear helmets. Couple that with the general populace who have no qualms about passing about about any "control" law and you can get just about any law passed.

Strictly speaking, I'm indecisive on the helmet law here in CA. My beef lies with the process. There are a ton of laws that pass this way and they all erode some portion of our freedoms as adults.

[TOK]

Meh, if I gotta wear a seatbelt, you gotta wear a helmet.

Or at least sign a mandatory organ donor card to ride without one.

You shouldn't have to wear a seatbelt. That's the whole problem with succumbing to the nanny mentality. Once it starts, it just keeps getting worse.

The guy in the protest made a bad choice and died from it. That's totally on him, and exactly how it should be.

[Cakemeister]

The guy in the protest made a bad choice and died from it. That's totally on him, and exactly how it should be.

+1. You won't ever see me riding without one but they should not be mandatory. Now we have to wear seat belts in the back seat. We should not have to wear those, either.

[Corbo]

It's mandatory here in the UK, and really isn't an issue.

I do believe in freedom of choice however, and given that wearing a helmet is only for the benefit of the rider, i.e it won't save anyone else's life if you come off without one, only your own, then I agree with both laws.  USA for freedom of choice, UK for enforced safety.

Either way, it's a bit dumb not to wear one.

[Ginsu Victim]

Either way, it's a bit dumb not to wear one.

Some helmets restrict your view to a very limited area. Forget about peripheral vision in them.

That is more dangerous to OTHER people on the road.

Also, I find them somewhat disorienting.

[Benevolance]

So maybe don't wear the bad helmet and get a good one?

There is a societal cost to not wearing helmuts or seatbelts. Even if you accept the risks, when medical personnel show up at the scene of an accident they are obligated to try and save your life, regardless of whether you are hurt because your stupidity didn't quite kill you, or you weren't the idiot that caused the accident. And if someone else hits you, you'll probably expect to be compensated for your injuries. And while most courts reduce the amount of reward due to contributory negligence, the severity of the injuries from not wearing proper safety gear will still make the final settlement cost higher than if you'd just put on the dumb helmut.

Now, if you have a waiver signed that says, "At first sign of any trauma to the head, kill me and harvest my organs" and you prepay for the cost of harvesting, then cool. I'll support your decision to not wear a helmut.

[Vigo]

There is a societal cost to not wearing helmuts or seatbelts. Even if you accept the risks, when medical personnel show up at the scene of an accident they are obligated to try and save your life, regardless of whether you are hurt because your stupidity didn't quite kill you, or you weren't the idiot that caused the accident.

I'm pretty sure more often than not, the guy wearing the helmet in an accident is costing a ton more hospital (and insurance company) resources. The guy w/o the helmet would be near dead and most likely not pull through after the ambulance ride. The guy with the helmet with have extensive procedures, hemoraging and internal bleeding that needs operating on, broken bones than need to be set. Spinal surgery and months and months of rehab.

Not trying to be insensitive, but if you think it should be law over the reason that it is using hospital resources, then you should be against helmets. Also, it's kinda a moot point because a hospital is more or less a business, and the hospital stays in business and makes money because of people getting into accidents.

And if someone else hits you, you'll probably expect to be compensated for your injuries. And while most courts reduce the amount of reward due to contributory negligence, the severity of the injuries from not wearing proper safety gear will still make the final settlement cost higher than if you'd just put on the dumb helmut.

You can't really justify the helmets law based on some false expectation that someone is actually gonna get hurt and sue the other person. If you haven't looked around and noticed, people don't quite need an excuse to sue the pants off of another person; your concern shouldn't be pissing at the guy who actually needs it.

Besides, 9 times out of 10, the motorcyclists are not to blame in an accident. We are better trained drivers and we have a lot more at stake when on the road. We are actually pretty scared about all the idiot drivers out there not noticing us and merging into our lane. Believe it or not, many people avoid a helmet for this very reason. All full helmets DO screw up your peripheral vision and often you do not see the cars about to hit you from the side. You have only a certain control over your surroundings, and keeping all your senses fully alert is the best thing you can do when riding. That means plan ahead and pick the appropriate amount a headgear to wear on your ride.

I do wear a helmet, and am a huge advocate for voluntarily wearing helmets. I understand a number of reasonable arguments for the laws when it comes down to people's saving lives. All the blubbering about people without helmets causing an "invisible detriment to society" is pure hogwash though.

[Ed_McCarron]

Now we have to wear seat belts in the back seat. We should not have to wear those, either.

Sure you should.  If I'm in the car that you hit head on, the last thing I want to have happen is to get injured by a person flying though my windshield at me.   

[shrunkenmaster]

One of my friends was cycling on a Sunday, a 5 minute journey. An elderly lady car driver didn't see him, his head hit the kerb, resulting in a coma, followed by a life (?) of not knowing what day it is.

The helmet would have saved him. So I'm in favour of the helmet.

[Dartful Dodger]

One of my friends was cycling on a Sunday, a 5 minute journey. An elderly lady car driver didn't see him, his head hit the kerb, resulting in a coma, followed by a life (?) of not knowing what day it is.

The helmet would have saved him. So I'm in favour of the helmet.

We get it. Heck this thread is about a guy without a helmet dieing in a protest against helmets who could have been saved if he had a helmet.

Who cares?
    You and the mother of the guy in the original link care.

Your friend and the guy in the original link didn't.

There are people who want to remove headers from soccer and this summer New York tried to outlaw freeze tag, Wiffle Ball and Red Rover.

We don't need the likes of iRobot locking us up for own protection, we're doing it to ourselves.

[derep]

Either way, it's a bit dumb not to wear one.

Some helmets restrict your view to a very limited area. Forget about peripheral vision in them.

That is more dangerous to OTHER people on the road.

Also, I find them somewhat disorienting.

You know whats not disorienting ? Taking a beetle to the eye/face going 50mph 

Saw this a few days ago: Skull caps , t-shirts, shorts and flip flops for a guy and his 10 y.o son.
Doesn't bother me, i don't have to live with the results

[ahofle]

Here's my take on riding:

It's like sex (no helmet)
...sex with a condom (tiny beanie helmet)
...sex with an oven mitt (full face helmet)

That seems to be a gross exaggeration to me.  I personally don't find a full face helmet to be that much worse than no helmet.  If you consider being pelted in the face with bugs or pebbles than it's even more pleasurable than no helmet (unless you're into S&M). 

[Vigo]

Shades are your friend. So is keeping your mouth closed when riding. 


I do ride with full face helmets when the bugs are out, though.

[Mikezilla]

One of my friends was cycling on a Sunday, a 5 minute journey. An elderly lady car driver didn't see him, his head hit the kerb, resulting in a coma, followed by a life (?) of not knowing what day it is.

The helmet would have saved him. So I'm in favour of the helmet.

There are people who want to remove headers from soccer and this summer New York tried to outlaw freeze tag, Wiffle Ball and Red Rover.
We don't need the likes of iRobot locking us up for own protection, we're doing it to ourselves.

Wait what the ---fudgesicle---? Trying to remove headers from soccer?! And what the ---fudgesicle--- is with New York? Why the hell would someone try to outlaw those games? I dont want to derail the thread, but I need to know about that. Jesus god. The world sucks.