Is Stephen Hawkings losing it?

[danny_galaga]

The dude seems to be making freakier and freakier 'sci fi' type claims and predictions lately:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/7153027/time-travel-possible-hawking

or this, which is an 'appeal to mere authority'

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20003358-71.html

Most scientists do their best work when they are in their 20's and 30's. I guess hawking has run out of original stuff to say?

[drventure]

Those headlines are a bit sensationalist, I think.

First, his "traveling into the future" is simply a pretty lame way of describing what would happen if a person was to ride for an extended period on a spaceship that could travel close to the speed of light. That's pretty well known stuff, not crackpot theories.

As for the the show on aliens, I actually just watched it a few days back. Pretty interesting, and he makes a number of good points.

Scientific American had an article a while back that essentially said "the only reason humanity is where it is today, is because we're essentially galactic country bumkins, living in a solar system that is, relatively speaking, a LONG LONG way from much of anything interesting going on at all.

We're actually between two arms of the Milky way, with not much around us but open space. They theorized that if we were actually within one of the arms or worse, more toward the galactic center, cosmic collisions, extra radiation, etc, would be so prevalent, life would like never have had enough time to evolve to the point that at has here without getting wiped out by a comet or whatnot, and having to start all over again.

And the comparison between us and native americans when Columbus came around? I could easily see that. Consider our own view of an ant, or a cockroach. They aren't intelligent, can't communicate with us, and are tiny, so we stomp em and move on. An alien race that's built ships capable of intersteller travel would have to be +awfully+ compassionate to give a rats ass about race of beings like us, living on a backwater planet, having +only+ sent their people to their moon, and a few robots to their next planet over.

I remember a show (was it Twilight zone?) that made the comment, "we've been sending out all these messages in the form of TV and radio broadcasts for 70+ years now, having no idea who or what out there might be listening, or who's "screen" we might pop up on as a "system of interest".

[SavannahLion]

+1

What's scary is the comments on those pages. Jesus, are people really that stupid?

[drventure]

Jesus, are people really that stupid?

Oh, come now. Do you +really+ need to ask that question 

Some of the comments are pretty decent. Then you get into the people quoting "quantum mechanics" and it's all downhill from there...

[RayB]

What's the big deal, he didn't say anything "insane" or outrageous. In fact, the first article even says:

He also admits that he shied away from time travel discussions in the past.
"Time travel was once considered scientific heresy," he said.
"I used to avoid talking about it for fear of being labelled a crank."

He has a new documentary out and whatever company involved is trying to promote by issuing press releases articles based on small quotes or theories in the documentary.


Re the comment about quantum mechanics. You can blame Oprah and her pimping "The Secret". Now millions of women (and some men I guess) out there think they are "quantum mechanics" experts after studying the claims that sham makes.

[Dartful Dodger]

I'm sorry but Hawking has never actually 'done' anything except be inspirational, his opinions on aliens are no better than anyone else's.

His Hustler magazine is more than inspirational.

[saint]

I'm sorry but Hawking has never actually 'done' anything except be inspirational, his opinions on aliens are no better than anyone else's.

Hmmmm. Spent his entire adult life in academic fields where peer review is the norm. What exactly do *you* consider qualified?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking

Hawking was the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge for thirty years... He is also a Fellow of Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge and a Distinguished Research Chair at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Ontario...

Hawking's key scientific works to date have included providing, with Roger Penrose, theorems regarding singularities in the framework of general relativity, and the theoretical prediction that black holes should emit radiation, which is today known as Hawking radiation (or sometimes as Bekenstein-Hawking radiation).

---------------

Hawking was always interested in science. As University College did not have a mathematics fellow at that time, it would not accept applications from students who wished to read that discipline. Hawking therefore applied to read natural sciences, in which he gained a scholarship. Once at University College, Hawking specialised in physics. His interests during this time were in thermodynamics, relativity, and quantum mechanics. His physics tutor, Robert Berman, later said in The New York Times Magazine:

    It was only necessary for him to know that something could be done, and he could do it without looking to see how other people did it. [...] He didn't have very many books, and he didn't take notes. Of course, his mind was completely different from all of his contemporaries.

Hawking was passing, but his unimpressive study habits resulted in a final examination score on the borderline between first and second class honours, making an "oral examination" necessary. Berman said of the oral examination:

    And of course the examiners then were intelligent enough to realize they were talking to someone far more clever than most of themselves.

After receiving his B.A. degree at Oxford in 1962, he stayed to study astronomy. He decided to leave when he found that studying sunspots, which was all the observatory was equipped for, did not appeal to him and that he was more interested in theory than in observation. He left Oxford for Trinity Hall, Cambridge, where he engaged in the study of theoretical astronomy and cosmology.


....

In the late 1960s, he and his Cambridge friend and colleague, Roger Penrose, applied a new, complex mathematical model they had created from Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity.[17] This led, in 1970, to Hawking proving the first of many singularity theorems; such theorems provide a set of sufficient conditions for the existence of a singularity in space-time. This work showed that, far from being mathematical curiosities which appear only in special cases, singularities are a fairly generic feature of general relativity.

....

He supplied a mathematical proof, along with Brandon Carter, Werner Israel and D. Robinson, of John Wheeler's "No-Hair Theorem" -- namely, that any black hole is fully described by the three properties of mass, angular momentum, and electric charge.

...

Hawking's many other scientific investigations have included the study of quantum cosmology, cosmic inflation, helium production in anisotropic Big Bang universes, large N cosmology, the density matrix of the universe, topology and structure of the universe, baby universes, Yang-Mills instantons and the S matrix, anti de Sitter space, quantum entanglement and entropy, the nature of space and time, including the arrow of time, spacetime foam, string theory, supergravity, Euclidean quantum gravity, the gravitational Hamiltonian, Brans-Dicke and Hoyle-Narlikar theories of gravitation, gravitational radiation, and wormholes.

----

Selected publications
Technical

    * Singularities in Collapsing Stars and Expanding Universes with Dennis William Sciama, 1969 Comments on Astrophysics and Space Physics Vol 1 #1
    * The Nature of Space and Time with Roger Penrose, foreword by Michael Atiyah, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1996, ISBN 0-691-05084-8
    * The Large Scale Structure of Spacetime with George Ellis, 1973 ISBN 0521099064
    * The Large, the Small, and the Human Mind, (with Abner Shimony, Nancy Cartwright, and Roger Penrose), Cambridge University Press, 1997, ISBN 0-521-56330-5 (hardback), ISBN 0-521-65538-2 (paperback), Canto edition: ISBN 0-521-78572-3
    * Information Loss in Black Holes, Cambridge University Press, 2005
    * God Created the Integers: The Mathematical Breakthroughs That Changed History, Running Press, 2005 ISBN 0762419229

Popular

    * A Brief History of Time, (Bantam Press 1988) ISBN 055305340X
    * Black Holes and Baby Universes and Other Essays, (Bantam Books 1993) ISBN 0553374117
    * The Universe in a Nutshell, (Bantam Press 2001) ISBN 055380202X
    * On The Shoulders of Giants. The Great Works of Physics and Astronomy, (Running Press 2002) ISBN 076241698X
    * A Briefer History of Time, (Bantam Books 2005) ISBN 0553804367

[Ginsu Victim]

Musician Jason Becker was diagnosed with ALS in 1989 and is still writing music to this day, using an eye-movement alphabet system developed by his father.

[LLUncoolJ]

If nothing else, the guy has brought awareness of singularity theories, most notably, the big bang, to the masses. It's good to have a public figure to associate with science. Einstein's celebrity probably helped influence a lot of people to pursue careers in science. Of course I have no evidence to back any of this up.

[drventure]

He's the world record holder for living with ALS, scientists cannot explain how he's managed to live so long and that's pretty neat.

That, and he guest starred on the Simpsons. Theoretical Physics Master? Meh. Guest star on Simpson?  

 

[Howard_Casto]

You guys do realize that he's probably one of the smartest men on the planet.  So even if he did lose a step due to age/illness the fact that you think some of his theories are bunk probably has less to do with him losing something and more to do with all of us being too dumb to fully comprehend what he is saying. 

[drventure]

Sorry if I misled anyone. I wasn't +actually+ saying "meh" to him being a theoretical physicist!

I have nothing but admiration for what the guy's accomplished. Seriously. He's easily one of the brightest minds out there now, or in recent history.

[Dartful Dodger]

I really don't want to get into another Hawking argument, but what meaningful, tangible contribution has he made to our lives?  He's got a lot of unproveable theories and some books - and he's inspirational.  

With all due respect, one of my unproveable theories is that when people end a statement by asking a volatile question it means they are fishing for an argument, just like when they start a statement "with all due respect" they really want to be insulting.

[saint]

I really don't want to get into another Hawking argument, but what meaningful, tangible contribution has he made to our lives?  He's got a lot of unproveable theories and some books - and he's inspirational.  He's the world record holder for living with ALS, scientists cannot explain how he's managed to live so long and that's pretty neat.

Well, he hasn't made me dinner or anything, I'll grant you that. He has studied math and physics and black holes and such. Wrote a few books that explained some bits about science to the general masses. Wrote some technical books for the non-masses. Studied theoretical astronomy and cosmology at Cambridge.  Had 11 doctoral students. Co-supplied a mathematical proof (which I understand is a pretty big thing) relating to the properties of black holes. You know, things that might make him maybe a bit qualified to speak... Dunno.

So who *do* you think is qualified?

[pinballwizard79]

Time dilation is cool, I like to talk about it when I am wasted for some reason but none of my friends get it.

[Howard_Casto]

I really don't want to get into another Hawking argument, but what meaningful, tangible contribution has he made to our lives?  He's got a lot of unproveable theories and some books - and he's inspirational.  He's the world record holder for living with ALS, scientists cannot explain how he's managed to live so long and that's pretty neat.

Well, he hasn't made me dinner or anything, I'll grant you that. He has studied math and physics and black holes and such. Wrote a few books that explained some bits about science to the general masses. Wrote some technical books for the non-masses. Studied theoretical astronomy and cosmology at Cambridge.  Had 11 doctoral students. Co-supplied a mathematical proof (which I understand is a pretty big thing) relating to the properties of black holes. You know, things that might make him maybe a bit qualified to speak... Dunno.

So who *do* you think is qualified?

Who are you and what have you done with saint?

Seriously man, that was going to be my reply before, but I've been making a real effort since I've came back to try to be less of a smart-ass with my replies.  Don't misunderstand, you hit the nail right on the head and I agree with you, it's just out of character to get such a response from you.  I'm not complaing btw. 

It's kind of short-sighted, imho to say he hasn't made any contributions to society just because he hasn't produced a new line of george foreman grills or something.  Tangible things are NOT the worth of a man or his career.  Hawking has taught physics on all levels with will undoubtely lead to more tangible applications later down the line.  Arguing that he hasn't done anythng worthwhile is kind of like saying the space race wasn't worthwhile because we didn't find aliens when we went to the moon.  Even if you are so practically minded that you can't appreciate the wonder and sheer joy of exploring the unknown, there were thousands of products and materials that came out of the space race.  That is where the good professor's work really shines btw.  Some of his theories will be very instrumental towards long-distance (say out of the solar system) space travel.  Mind you it might not happen within our lifetimes, but it will eventually be useful in direct applications.

[danny_galaga]

He's the world record holder for living with ALS, scientists cannot explain how he's managed to live so long and that's pretty neat.

That, and he guest starred on the Simpsons. Theoretical Physics Master? Meh. Guest star on Simpson?  

 

Cooler than that, he guest starred with Gary Gygax and Al Gore in Futurama. Remember that?

You guys do realize that he's probably one of the smartest men on the planet.  So even if he did lose a step due to age/illness the fact that you think some of his theories are bunk probably has less to do with him losing something and more to do with all of us being too dumb to fully comprehend what he is saying. 

What I am getting at is that news about him lately has been very ho hum. Pretty much anyone can say " I reckon we oughta avoid aliens"

And how many times have we heard about high speed space travel since Einsteins time?

[drventure]

Cooler than that, he guest starred with Gary Gygax and Al Gore in Futurama. Remember that?

How could I forget that? Doh!

What I am getting at is that news about him lately has been very ho hum. Pretty much anyone can say " I reckon we oughta avoid aliens"
And how many times have we heard about high speed space travel since Einsteins time?

True, but the guy's 68 and had been doing fastly serious stuff for a long time now. Maybe it's time he unwind a bit. Besides, I'd much rather someone like him keep the dialog going about aliens and space travel. If not, those concepts will eventually just die off. It takes guys like that, who can not only dream it up, but can also visualize how it +might+ actually happen and then, just maybe, see the solution at the bottom of a cereal bowl one day.

[syph007]

Ya I wouldn't worry about aliens visiting anytime soon.... I remember when i came across the drake equation and that made sense to me.  Since the universe is so vast, I think its reasonable to think that life exists on other planets.  Now... given that i don't believe aliens have ever come here... to me that just proves that light or faster than light travel isnt possible.. these populated planets are too far from us to ever show a presence.  That's my take on it.. and ya I can forgive Hawkings for some shock value comments....

[RayB]

I just explained already why these lame quotes from him are in the news! He's involved in a new documentary. That's what companies do when they release movies. They try to get whatever PR they can in the guise of articles about something else. In this case it's a couple seemingly sensational or out-there quotes. So you read the article, and it mentions the documentary. Ergo, the article was really just advertising for the movie.

[koolmoecraig]

"what meaningful, tangible contribution has he made to our lives?  He's got a lot of unproveable theories and some books"  - Pinball Jim

[Epyx]

Just a few things to add:

1) When you realize how efficiently ALS kills it is all the more amazing that only a handful of people like Stephen and Jason Becker have lived beyond a decade.

2) My thoughts are that any alien species that has been around long enough to develop interstellar travel should be compassionate enough to have lived through the wars, genocide etc within its own species. My feeling is if they made it that long and far they would have to be more explorer than warrior...ie more vulcan than Klingon.

I think a warlike species like a Klingon would have killed itself off long before developing interstellar travel.

[Benevolance]

I wouldn't go so far say all of our technology advances were war-related, but I do agree with PBJ that war is a significant factor for innovation.

[Dartful Dodger]

Exploring for exploration sake.  That makes a lot of sense when you're 9 years old visiting your uncle's farm, and there’s no cable tv.  Nothing (man or beast) explores unless they have a goal and that goal needs to be worth the travel. If expenses are higher than the profit nothing no matter how much they value knowledge would do it.

Traveling across the galaxy just to see where The A-Team transmission originated from sounds unlikely. If they’ve come looking for us it's because they want something from us.

[Loafmeister]

Hmmm, although its seen as war related, it's more accurate to believe it's "survival" related and that can imply other factors than war.  For example, let's say you're a race that happens to reach our level of maturity (or immaturity eheh), but on a star system where the sun is going into some phase that would lead to all life being snuffed out within 50 years.  if that could be detected by said alien race, that 50 years would see HUGE jump in technology, more so than any war driven tech boost because you wouldn't have that political and killing crap that gets in the way.

 naturally, war has certainly been a huge factor in our own history but it doesn't always work that way.  The first 1500 years AD had lots of war and not a whole lot of advancements.

[SirPeale]

And don't forget, he's also a gangster rap artist.

Do a search for "MC Hawking".

[danny_galaga]

Traveling across the galaxy just to see where The A-Team transmission originated from sounds unlikely. If they’ve come looking for us it's because they want something from us.

Moot anyway. I've forgotten the correct term, but all our transmissions (noise) becomes meaningless garbage within a fairly short distance. No one will ever 'hear' us. So if travelers come, they won't know about us until they are quite close...

[northerngames]

he had a short part in the superhero movie too 

[Epyx]

Nah, I totally disagree with your point #2.  All of our technology advances as human beings have been war-related, I'd expect aliens to be the same

Fair enough, your opinion

I just don't think a warlike species would ever evolve technology capable of making it across the stars.  We fight our wars against factions of our own species.  Where does it end? Does Earth end up with one religion? One political faction? At what point do we unite?  Wars and our petty barbarian traits will ensure we never make it to the stars to do harm to others.  

I feel the same is true for aliens...the warlike will always splinter, even after defeating the other faction, splintering will happen again and again until mutual destruction is assured.  Look at all of earth's great empires...take the Romans for example splintering and corruption from within was as much to blame as barbarian incursions.

We are talking about getting from one star system to another a distance that will take lifetimes or technology even our imagination can't fully grasp.  Now if we were talking about two neighboring planets in a single star system then yes, Christopher Columbus revisited.

Now turning back to the vast distances between star systems and what that would entail...what would prompt a species to develop technology capable of achieving interstellar travel?  Would it be the civilization on the planet that is dying from pollution and draining of resources?  I don't think so,  the technology involved in interstellar travel would address domestic pollution and resource draining.  The technology required would need to come from a civilization that outlasted wars, outlasted all the issues we face...could that civilization be truly warlike? Again, i don't think so.

It won't be an America or a China that develops interstellar capable technology it could only be a united earth and how likely is that? How far removed from the humans we are today?

Traveling across the galaxy just to see where The A-Team transmission originated from sounds unlikely

I can't think of another reason? At the point such technology is realized, resources/technology on a planet like ours will likely not be part of the equation.  I think this is the only reason any species would ever wander to neighboring stars.

[danny_galaga]

Nah, I totally disagree with your point #2.  All of our technology advances as human beings have been war-related, I'd expect aliens to be the same

Fair enough, your opinion

I just don't think a warlike species would ever evolve technology capable of making it across the stars.  We fight our wars against factions of our own species.  Where does it end? Does Earth end up with one religion? One political faction? At what point do we unite?  Wars and our petty barbarian traits will ensure we never make it to the stars to do harm to others.  

war is about property. Who owns the moon? Who ever wins the war, that's who!

[Epyx]

Again your talking about a timeframe close to one we live in...the technology needed would require us to outlive "who owns the moon"...

I don't dispute that war is about property...if you read above, what i stated was that the technology required would have to see a species move beyond the notion of property or pollution or resources with members of its own species.  Getting to the moon while the earth is still factional has already happened...getting to the stars while the earth is still factional is imo all but impossible.

[Ond]

Nah, I totally disagree with your point #2.  All of our technology advances as human beings have been war-related, I'd expect aliens to be the same.

There's no doubt that the military does drive technological advancement and fund research, but to say ALL technological advance, that's pretty generalistic.  Easier to generalise eh?  Well I don't think Isaac Newton was thinking about warfare when he was coming up with his laws of motion.  Newton is considered by many to be one of the most influential people in human history. I think what is apparent from this discussion is the inability of the general public to equate these great thinkers and their discoveries with daily life i.e. how does it benefit me in some tangible way?  

Here's one for consideration, Carl Sagan once postulated that if it weren't for the loss of the knowledge contained within the Library of Alexandria we would have colonised parts of the solar system in the 30's and have been heading for the stars by now.  That knowledge was (in part)thought to have been lost due to acts of warfare.

Sure, man went to the moon on the back of the military but where might we be if weren't busy trying to invent better ways to kill ourselves?

[danny_galaga]

I'm which case we stay on Earth. Humans will always be war-like. I consider it one of the definitions of being human...

[RayB]

If you had the ability to "travel" lightyears, you'd be sending out automated, unmanned probes first, to observe and gather data.

[Havok]

I have the ability to travel to the future.

I'll tell you about it tomorrow.