Russian Muscle Stimulator - mildly nsfw with cheesecake now

[Xiaou2]

 EMS = Electro-Muscular Stimulation)
 (( sends small electrical jolts into your muscles to heal, tone, and even build them)

 Years ago, I used to have a EMS unit. I think I got the idea from one of
Bruce Lees' documentary's/movies or books.   I think I paid $100 for it.  Unlike the
crappy ones that later followed.. it was a powerful unit, with large
water-absorbing electrodes (non-disposable).  

 I used to use it to help build my deep tissue muscles for martial arts, as well as
to heal injuries much much faster.   It worked amazing for pain relief and vastly
reduced healing times.  Also toned some deep internal muscles that typical
workouts couldnt easily target.

 After a few years of constant use, it finally bit it.   I stupidly ordered one of these
tiny ones shown on tv.  It was a joke not even worth using.

 Fast forward 10+  yrs... I have recently started to train again...  And injured my
shoulder in class.  I finally broke down and decided to get a new EMS unit.

 After a little searching, I found out that there are a few different kinds:

 1) Tens
 2) Stimulation
 3) Russian
 4)

 Tens is often used in Chiropractic offices.  It is used to relieve pains &
muscle injuries.  Also for massage.

 Stim is a bit stronger used for toning.  (This is what I used to own)

 Russian: Developed by the Russians for use in Olympic training... It
uses a 2500 hz at 50 pulses a second.  It gets deeper into tissue and provides
more complete and stronger muscular contractions.

 There is another one that started to pop up, to do with alternating frequencies...
but I decided to stick with the Russian Stim.

 I ordered the  "TDR 64"  from Tonematic:

 http://www.toneamatic.com/productDetail3.asp?category=X-TDR+%28RUSSIAN+STIM%29+SERIES&productName=X-TDR+%28RUSSIAN+STIM%29+SERIES

 The website is a little bjorked... So just for safety, I ordered by phone.
Prompt response, friendly order taker.  I did ask for a tracking number, but
it never was emailed to me.  However, the unit arrived incredibly fast.  They
are a mere 1.5 hrs drive away.

 Just unboxed it.  Well packed in a durable carrying case.  They threw in a
free mini stimulator & simulator gel that I requested. Upon looking at the bill,
I was surprised to see it was only $200!  The price was supposed to be
$390 on sale, and $6  for the gel.     Woot!  (Maybe shouldnt get too excited
till I check my credit card statement)

 The unit is pretty heavy duty.. but lighter in mass than expected.

 There are several large and small pads.  The pads are a sort of conductive
rubber.  You dampen them with water, or use conductive gel.  They provide
several bunjee style straps that velcro in place, which are used to hold the pads
in place.

 They also provide disposable re-usable sticky-electrode pads.  These made it
a little easier for hard to place pad areas.

 Each mode has a different feel to it... And the feel can very depending on the
muscle group you are working.  I can say that the Russian mode is AWESOME!
Its definitely the most powerful stimulator mode.  Your muscles contract and
vibrate with deep penetrating power ripples.

 The unit is very powerful.  Turning the dials just a hair can lead to some
really serious levels of power.  Luckily, there is a setting which can ramp up the
power levels gradually, to avoid accidental over-juicing yourself.  It also has a
safety feature, which will not start the unit until the dials are zero'd out.

 Ive been using it now for a few hours, and its really helping my shoulder.
I also hooked my abs into it too.   This unit can work 4 channels at once,
so you can work 4 muscles at once.  I almost wish I had gotten the unit
with more channels now...  But ehh, I have to watch the spending.  I justify
this as a necessity.  It was this, or possibly a few chiropractor and doctor visits.
(I dont have health insurance)

 I cant recommend a unit like this enough for people in sports.  And also for
people with muscle and pain issues.

 Btw - I do not expect to be building muscles with this.  Even though it states
that can be done with the Russian mode...  I believe its more realistic to use this
as a healing device, and as an aid to a normal workout.

 There is a complete video review on youtube by some guy.  (not me)

 

[CheffoJeffo]

Russian: Developed by the Russians for use in Olympic training... It
uses a 2500 hz at 50 pulses a second.  It gets deeper into tissue and provides
more complete and stronger muscular contractions.

Wouldn't 2500Hz be 2500 pulses per second ?

[northerngames]

here's a few more for less then $100.00 shipped but I don't know anything about these and not sure if there even on the same level of what you got.

 http://www.medicalproductsonline.org/?gclid=CImHipjsuaACFekD5Qodih_IVg

[EwJ]

I thought this thread would be more like this:

[Xiaou2]

Wouldn't 2500Hz be 2500 pulses per second ?

 Honestly, I do not understand the Hz thing yet.  I merely copied down the
specs listed on the site and manual.

 Stim mode = 40 to 200 hz  (adjustable)
 Tens         = 1 to 39 hz     (adjustable)
 Russian      = 2500 hz at 50 pulses per sec.  (locked)

Edit:  Heres some text from another site that may help:

Essentially, an alternating current with a carrier frequency of 2500Hz (described my many therapists as 'medium' frequency) is 'chopped' into short bursts at 50Hz with a 50% duty cycle. In this way, the motor nerves re able to respond (50Hz is well withing their response band) and the discomfort associated with the therapy is diminished (as with Interferential Therapy) by virtue of the medium frequency carrier

here's a few more for less then $100.00 shipped

 There are plenty of units $100 or under.  Amazon.com  is where I saw most of
those same units for sale.

 However:

 1) There is No 'Russian mode' on most of the low cost units.

 2) The pads are throw-aways.  You will have to continually buy more pads
for these units.

 The TDR-64 has rubber pads that will not ever have to be replaced.
This alone will save you a ton of money for a person who uses the machine
often.

 3) The lower cost units are usually not very configurable.  They have
pre-programmed effects.

 The unit I bought, has adjustable settings for everything:

   a) Pulse duration
   b) Rest period
   c) hz
   d) timer
   e) power levels
   f) surge ramp (release up power slower, rather than all at once)
   g) phase (current one direction, or bi-directional)
   h) Channel ops (all fire at once, or even/odd channels fire alternately)

 4) Power
  
   Many lower priced units do not output enough power to do the job well.
 Might be Ok for limited massage.. but not much more.

 5) Reliability
 
   Low cost usually means less lifetime due to cheaper components.
 Also, Tonematic says they give a 5 yr warranty.


EwJ,   I couldnt afford that unit  hehe

[Thenasty]

I thought this thread would be more like this:

that is what I need for a COMPLETE massage or any in the Cheesecake thread  

[protokatie]

Russian: Developed by the Russians for use in Olympic training... It
uses a 2500 hz at 50 pulses a second.  It gets deeper into tissue and provides
more complete and stronger muscular contractions.

Wouldn't 2500Hz be 2500 pulses per second ?

Damn, my post died on me, lemme try again.

I think it is refering to 50 pulses a second of a 2500 Hz signal (Ie when the system is on, it sends a 2500Hz signal, but that signal is turned on and off 50 times a second). This is similar in concept to having a 500Hz buzzer that you turn on and off once a second, or if you press one of the buttons on a touch tone phone once a second (that would be the 2 freqs that the button is producing at 1 Hz).

Am I explaining this in a readable manner? Im a bit tired, atm....

[Hoopz]

$1,000

[RayB]

Xiau, I dont think Bruce Lee gave you the idea. His name is Dr. Ho. His infomercials were on ALL the time, remember?

[Xiaou2]

 Nope.  And thats an ultra weak version of the technology.

 I saw it on  "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story"



 Lee was known for using electricity in his training.  Not just muscle stimulation... but Ive
heard somewhere that he had electrified hoops or targets... that one struck thru
or quickly touched.  He was a true fanatic.

 The device I have has enough juice, that at full power, could really hurt a person.
Some of the muscle groups Ive tested so far.. and I couldnt go above level 3 out of
10... and a single degree of turning is like a lightning bolt of difference in power levels.

[Howard_Casto]

Nope Bruce Lee is the one who brought the tech to the fore-front way back in the 70's.  Watch the Bruce Lee story sometime... he's typing a book while getting the crap shocked out of him.


But keep in mind, Bruce died of a heart attack.  


Shocking your body is NOT a good idea.  Voltage levels safe enough to be absorbed into the human body don't really tone anything... they are barely helpful in MAINTAINING current muscle tone in paralyzed patients.  Anything that could actually increase your tone could cause extreme nerve damage amoung other things.  

The "russian" mode says it all.  Developed for the russian olympics huh?  Keep in mind the russians also utilized steroids, heroin and pcb.  

A tens unit is a medical device.  Not nearly strong enough to do any damage... my grandma has one for her back pain.  The fact that it runs on 4 AA's should tell you how weak it is.  BUT anything stronger than that is dangerous.  

Be careful!

[Xiaou2]

 Supposedly Bruce died of some drug related issue / allergy.

 I have a theory, that Lee's main problem was lack of fat.  He was so lean, that
there was no extra energy stores.  And being that he was a work-a-holic,  
using tons of calories at a time, and may not have always kept eating on schedule...
its possible his body starved itself and shut down.


 As for Electroshock, its not as dangerous as you make it seem.  The Tens mode
is plenty powerful in itself at high levels.  And the current is doing nothing much more
than what happens when you tense up.   If you feel a burn, simply turn down the
current levels and or move the pads slightly.

 Typical weight training can be just as -  if not More dangerous.  With current, you can
easily turn down the juice.  With mass, you can lose control and buckle under the
stresses... dropping the mass, and or possibly tearing your muscles right off the bones.

 Heck, the first time I went to a Wing Chun guy, he let me participate in the workout.
The guy turned out to be liar and an inexperienced tool, and didnt explain things well...
Couple that with my no-quit attitude.. and I ended up doing everything the class did.
The next day I could barely walk... and the simple act of breathing was painful.  This didnt
go away for a full month worth of healing!  So, like anything, you have to be very
careful in how fast and hard you push yourself.

 This is definitely not a replacement for mass training.  However, as said, its great
for healing, pain relief, and reaching very deep tissue that typical exercises and or
mass training do not easily reach.

 I agree you should be careful, but hey, you should be careful crossing the street too
I think its fairly self evident advice.

[shmokes]

Danger Will Robinson!!!

[ark_ader]

I love my tens machine.  Great for sprains and muscle aches and pains.

Except when I boob and set the tens at number 24 and end up doing a break dance.

[Xiaou2]

 The kind of feeling you get depends on the place where you put the pads, and
the level of power you use.

 With tens/stims, you stay away from the nerves, and stick to the muscle mass.
The feeling is actually very pleasurable at low to med power levels.

[SavannahLion]

The "russian" mode says it all.  Developed for the russian olympics huh?  Keep in mind the russians also utilized steroids, heroin and pcb.

The females also got pregnant (usually from their coaches) to force their bodies to absorb additional nutrients than aborted the fetus at the appropriate time.

Supposedly Bruce died of some drug related issue / allergy.

 I have a theory, that Lee's main problem was lack of fat.  He was so lean, that
there was no extra energy stores.  And being that he was a work-a-holic, 
using tons of calories at a time, and may not have always kept eating on schedule...
its possible his body starved itself and shut down.

The theory is plausible but it wouldn't be the cause of death. It would be the underlying heart problems (if any). When the human body reaches a point that it's burning calories from fat and there's no more body fat to burn, the body will actually consume some other portion of the body in an attempt to sustain itself, usually muscle tissue. In a "healthy" body, the heart wouldn't be consumed, per se, before the other muscle tissue. What you would see is the person gradually growing thinner as their muscle tissue is consumed with an eventual cause of death to be heart failure (or a number of other problems, IIRC kidney failure I think would be one too).

X, being a martial artist (and always talking about it) you know as well as anyone else that the human body has an astonishing capacity for managing energy stores. Zeroing out your fat content isn't desirable, but it isn't going to directly kill an otherwise healthy person.

[Xiaou2]

 SavannahLion,

    Im not doctor, or in a related profession.

 How fast can the body break down its own tissues?   The thought is that if you cant
break down the tissue fast enough, the body may go into some form of shock, and shut
down.
 
 Im probably wrong.  He probably was simply executed in some way, and it was
covered up.

 Having low fat is good, but no fat? Cant be good on the body.


 As for the Russians,  Im sure Americans have done plenty of similar things.  Just that
many times, the actual athletes do not even know about it.  IE: Spiked food / liquids.

[SavannahLion]

    Im not doctor, or in a related profession.

 How fast can the body break down its own tissues?   The thought is that if you cant
break down the tissue fast enough, the body may go into some form of shock, and shut
down.

I really don't know how fast the body will start breaking down alternate tissue. I don't know Bruce Lee's history as intimately as some others, but I would imagine that he's been training like that for years so any alternate tissue breakdown would have manifested itself long before his death.

Im probably wrong.  He probably was simply executed in some way, and it was
covered up.

I've heard some of those theories, same goes for his son (damn shame really, imagine if he was in the Matrix instead of Keanu) but I'm not going to get into that.

Having low fat is good, but no fat? Cant be good on the body.

Please note that I wrote:

Zeroing out your fat content isn't desirable, but it isn't going to directly kill an otherwise healthy person.

Having zero fat is definitely not what you want. But having that happen isn't going to directly kill you. Thousands upon thousands of people can attest to that.

[ark_ader]

The theory is plausible but it wouldn't be the cause of death. It would be the underlying heart problems (if any). When the human body reaches a point that it's burning calories from fat and there's no more body fat to burn, the body will actually consume some other portion of the body in an attempt to sustain itself, usually muscle tissue.

I'm nearly there with atkins - just a few more months....

[Xiaou2]

 I dont know why anyone would brag at losing mass by sacrificing their longjevity in
return.  What good is it to be thin, if you reduce the lifespan of your internal
parts by about 1/2?   Id say you are a fool...  and you probably will pack all that
mass back on as soon as you start eating healthily again.

[ark_ader]

 I dont know why anyone would brag at losing mass by sacrificing their longjevity in
return.  What good is it to be thin, if you reduce the lifespan of your internal
parts by about 1/2?   Id say you are a fool...  and you probably will pack all that
mass back on as soon as you start eating healthily again.

I would have given a kidney just to be thin. 

Thin is healthy and you get the girls.  Thin is less likely to get a heart attack.  Thin is getting to wear the newest hip clothes.

Fat is being lonely and eventually getting diabetes and losing your arms and legs.  Fat is shopping in the two man tent size department, and getting depressed.  Which makes you eat Ben & Jerrys.

You tell me which is the best. 

Oh and exercise played an important part - walking 6 miles day in rain, sleet, snow...Gosh its been a cold crap winter!

I show the before and after photos to my close friends and the time it took to shed - and they all say I'm insane.  Mulhahaha 

[RayB]

Fat is shopping in the two man tent size department, and getting depressed.  Which makes you eat Ben & Jerrys.

And chips.
Which reminds me, I gotta go to the store. Thanks!

[patrickl]

Looks like a device that would be installed on a death train ...

[shmokes]

A death train with a perpetual motion engine.