Light gun market research question.

[orion]

I just thought of it.
It might be under LCD? I am not sure.
My sister and also my younger brother both have new flat panel TVs
$1,000 + type TVs
these have a PC connection on them (VGA)
LARGE TVs (HD)
so vertical and horizontal games would be fine on same TVs
They won't let me hook up a PC to check them out 

That's what I would like.
all my Mame gun games.
all my console EMU gun games.
SNAP 

I said I would never spend that kind of $$$$ on any stupid TV.
This could change my mind

That's what I do, and both vertical and horizontal look fine to me. Just be aware that these sets don't support all the resolutions that a PC monitor does. Also they seem to vary from set to set (I have three and they are all different) http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/02/08/how-to-connect-your-pc-to-your-hdtv/ So if you are looking at a particular model I would recommend downloading the manual for it as that's about the only way you can tell what resolutions they can handle before you buy them. I haven't tried the LCD topgun because from what I understand I would have to stand like 20 ft away to use it on a 52 inch. It would be cool if there was a gun that you could use a little closer up with on these larger monitors. 

[AndyWarne]

preferrably in black or black/chrome as a glock/45/Desert Eagle. Please no lime green or oinge 

Thats another issue. I think in most jurisdictions the gun would need to be a "non-gun" color otherwise it would be illegal to sell it as it would be a replica gun. Thats why the gaming guns are these colors.

[wooowman93]

red and blue

[NIVO]

preferrably in black or black/chrome as a glock/45/Desert Eagle. Please no lime green or oinge 

Thats another issue. I think in most jurisdictions the gun would need to be a "non-gun" color otherwise it would be illegal to sell it as it would be a replica gun. Thats why the gaming guns are these colors.

make the sights like a neon green or orange. It will qualify in this respect. In most toy stores at present the guns themselves are simply tipped in orange or green, which if done right would add some style to it imho. Or simply make a snap on cap and hand grip sides in your choice of colors or decals. Green/Orange/Red/Blue

[Organic Jerk]

make the sights like a neon green or orange. It will qualify in this respect. In most toy stores at present the guns themselves are simply tipped in orange or green, which if done right would add some style to it imho. Or simply make a snap on cap and hand grip sides in your choice of colors or decals. Green/Orange/Red/Blue

Where do you live?  In NYC you would be HARD PRESSED to browse a toy store and find a gun in black at all (except if you went to a cheapo imports store, possibly)... most guns are very bright colors and have outlandish shapes.  The newest Nerf series (N-Strike) I'd say is probably the closest you'll come to looking almost like a real gun, currently (and that is a huge stretch)...

Personally, I figure having the guns go for the "Arcade" look is what we would be going for, not the "Real" look.... My vote is for red and blue.


As far as shape, I liked the crazy namco or sega shapes myself ( but I would be totally cool with a standard arcade gun housing or other style of standard gun)...  I figure shape will end up being a huge discussion if it comes to it.  I don't know what copyrights are held by whom as far as that's concerned... if we had to go with a totally new arcade design, I wouldn't mind taking some influence from nerf guns... (N-Strike Wii Gun)

[NIVO]

this is what im getting at, forgive my crude ms paint drawing, its simply meant to show what im talking about. Done in grey to give you contrast of features

[Congui]

Maybe something like the Sega Saturn Stunner Gun:

[DJ_Izumi]

I think that light guns should look nither exactly like a real gun nor like a crazy alien blaster.  Sega and Namco's designs are probably the best for both home and arcade, with me personally feeling that Namco's guns were of a better look.   I think a 'gunish but not specficily any gun' look is more authenticly 'arcade' then a Desert Eagle or something that looks like a Super Soaker.

And of course, everyone knows that light guns come in red or blue.

[TheShanMan]

Yup. I vote for "arcade authentic", and that includes both color and cables (some here prefer the idea of wireless guns - not me).

[Organic Jerk]

I think that light guns should look nither exactly like a real gun nor like a crazy alien blaster.  Sega and Namco's designs are probably the best for both home and arcade, with me personally feeling that Namco's guns were of a better look.   I think a 'gunish but not specficily any gun' look is more authenticly 'arcade' then a Desert Eagle or something that looks like a Super Soaker.

And of course, everyone knows that light guns come in red or blue.

I would agree, and thats kind of why I like the newer nerf guns such as the one above, as opposed to the last few gen's.  Forget the color scheme, because its red/Blue, but if you look at the Sega gun and the Nerf wii gun specifically for JUST SHAPE, they aren't really that different except for the fact that the nerf mold is  more detailed.

And again, thats only if we *couldn't* just replicate the other mold... I don't know what copyright situations are with these molds.  I'm just saying if we had to actually work with a brand new mold design.

[DJ_Izumi]

And again, thats only if we *couldn't* just replicate the other mold... I don't know what copyright situations are with these molds.  I'm just saying if we had to actually work with a brand new mold design.

I don't think it'd be difficult for any graphic designer to come up with a design that 'fits' the arcade theme of looking like a gun but not specificly being any gun.  Most arcade guns I can think of arn't super rich in physical details but are more generic.

[shmokes]

 Andy's/Ultimarc's products (and service) have never failed to disappoint,

   That's not very nice!

[mayhem]

Well since my LCD light guns have never seemed to work properly i went and bought a Wii controller and light bar and extras my god it cost a small fortune and to my disbelief the Blue tooth stacks crash out on windows xp 64 all the time ......

But under windows XP seem oky accept my blue tooth dongle is pants and losses connection all the time.

So was thinking along the lines of the LCD light gun but with better guns / single light bar or LEDS  and Much better tracking drivers and all so throw in you sensors for movement and you would have the best ever light gun full stop ....   .......

Sort of a cross between WII  / LCD Light guns and namco body ... oh and none of that crappy kick back effect from LCD light gun it sucks ...

[DJ_Izumi]

Well since my LCD light guns have never seemed to work properly i went and bought a Wii controller and light bar and extras my god it cost a small fortune and to my disbelief the Blue tooth stacks crash out on windows xp 64 all the time ......

But under windows XP seem oky accept my blue tooth dongle is pants and losses connection all the time.

So was thinking along the lines of the LCD light gun but with better guns / single light bar or LEDS  and Much better tracking drivers and all so throw in you sensors for movement and you would have the best ever light gun full stop ....   .......

Sort of a cross between WII  / LCD Light guns and namco body ... oh and none of that crappy kick back effect from LCD light gun it sucks ...

Well, a WiiMote IS an LCD Light Gun, just in a funny shape.  But both are using the same core technology of tracking two points of IR light and doing the math to use them as a basis for understanding what it's pointing at.  But this technology of course has issues.  Firstly, the gun can't see the the markers from certian angles or distances.  From too far away the IR signal meshes in with other sources in the room, too close and the angle between the gun and the market might be too sharp for it to sense.  An IR marker design won't let you put the barrel right up to the screen and have it detect where you're pointing at for example.

This is the issue, the technology behind a cathode ray timing gun is simple and highly effective but CRT displays are growing more and more obsolete.  Using IR or some other marker technology is simply necessary, dispite some of the issues.

[severdhed]

i'd be very happy if the wiimote would pair up automatically and work as a mame lightgun, but that just doesnt seem to work too well.  the problem with the wii's approach to the IR tracking, is that it is not remotely accurate on a big screen.  if you are on a small screen, it isnt that noticeable..but when i am playing games on my 102" projection screen...i am not pointing the wiimote anywhere near where the crosshair shows up.  my wii sensor bar sits below my screen...when i aim at stuff near the bottom of the screen, it is pretty good...but for stuff at teh top of the screen, i have to aim somewhere slightly below center. 

having two led bars like the topgun should solve those kinds of problems, however according to teh EMS tech support, their guns wont work on a screen that big, unless you mount the bars in the middle of the screen...which is just unacceptable.  i'm sure i'm in the minority in wanting good lightguns that would work on a screen that large, but it would be nice.

but projection screens aside, i really hope that whatever Andy is workign on, he makes it compatible with LCD monitors.   CRTs are becoming increasingly difficult to come by.    also, the local pizza place got some new arcade games in the other day, one of which is a time crisis 2 unit...the pedal was almost broken, but still functional.  It was alot of fun playing with a real arcade gun....and i have to say those namco guns are really slick looking.  it made me go home and hook up my ps2 to the 26" tv and play some time crisis 3...now i'm really wanting a gun cabinet again.

i know it is just "market research" at this point, but here is what i am hoping for:

1. LCD monitor support
2. guns that are either comparable to or better than the guncon 2 controllers..preferably in blue...and yellow
3. flexible mounting options for IR Led bars or whetever it is they will use.
4. not to cost an arm and a leg. 

i know ultimarc makes great products, and i am willing to pay for great products...as long as they are within reason.

i think i speak for alot of us when i say "we're counting on you Andy"

[thatitalian]

I personally love the Namco and Sega guns as they had a bit of weight to them and looked really cool.

I also loved the recoil feature, the gun just felt, well like a gun really but at the same time you knew it was an arcade gun!

The key, I believe, would be in the colour options available. I personally like red but it would be cool to have other colours. Therefore, would it be so impossible to make the casing changeable? Or at least have a black base and make other parts changeable like NIVO suggested? I would love to have the option to customise those parts to my cab.

- Obviously LCD support would be a must nowadays.
- In terms of design I would definitely like a Namco/Sega shape.
- either black, colour coded or metal tubing for the wire
- usb support

[notaburger]

i voted for the following:

interchangeable shells with a place to add weights (just like the gaming mice)

for example, if the wife and mom are playing, i can lighten up the guns, if some guys are over drinking some beers, toss in the weight to add to the "bad@ss" feeling

but honestly, if it works and costs less than 300 bucks for a nice 2 gun setup, i'm there

[taz-nz]

I may as well throw my 2˘

Dual infrared LED tracking style operation for universal monitor support. (include cardboard template for spacing of LEDs on common monitor sizes .)
Direct copy of original PS1 Guncon gun styling. (including front function buttons)
Standard pushbutton Mircoswitch for trigger for easy servicing.
Red, Blue, Yellow full body colour options (should match happ pushbuttons of those colours if possible).
64bit Vista/Windows 7 driver support.
3 meter USB cable with a xbox style breakway 1 meter from gun (or Bluetooth wireless).

[DJ_Izumi]

Direct copy of original PS1 Guncon gun styling. (including front function buttons)

Uhh... See on the side of the Guncon?  Where it says '© 1996 NAMCO LTD.'?  That means copying the Guncon's mold would be, ya know, 'a bad thing' without permission from Bandai Namco.

[Aabra]

Just thought I'd chirp in here that if you can create a high quality *DURABLE* light gun that easily works with LCD monitors I would definitely buy one.  I think most of us would  be more than willing to pay a little extra for something that can take some serious abuse.

[Shoegazer]

 Andy's/Ultimarc's products (and service) have never failed to disappoint,

   That's not very nice!

Oops!  Just realized that.. hah thanks for the catch.  Modified.   

[Silverwind]

No one is sticking up for CRT's so I will 

Of course if a gun could work with all screens that is great, but I would rather have one for a CRT (specifically a low res one driven by AVGA).

I have some CRT love!  I am using a betson imperial 27" arcade monitor/crt.  It should work well with something like this. 

As far as cost.  Easily would pay $50 for something of decent quality.  I may consider more, but it would have to be real nice and work out of the box.

[1UP]

I'm in if this is for real.  I'd personally prefer a controller board that's compatible with Happ guns since I already have two that have never been used, but as long as it works seamlessly with Mame, is 2 player capable, doesn't require me to stand in another zip code, and is available sometime in the near future, I'd be up for any solution.

[GaryMcT]

I'd prefer CRT support for my arcade resolution d9500s. I'm not sure about the distance since I haven't played a lightgun game in a long time.

[FrizzleFried]

What is most important to me is that is JUST WORKS... simplicity is key... I so want to pick up a couple of guns for my cab,  but it's seems to be way too much trouble to get either of the current options available to work right....

SIMPLICITY is key...then price...

[1UP]

I agree.   No pairing on startup.  Manual calibration should be as infrequent as possible.

[extendedplayarcade]

Count me in. I would turn my Leathal Enforcers 2 into a mame gun cab. 
Maybe just make a board that can except Happ red and blue guns. 

Then we won't have to worry about if the parts aren't always available.

just my two cents.

If that doesn't work for compatability issues I would even go for a gun with sensor bars we can attach to the side of the screen or something.

everyone that comes over to my game room to play loves to play my leathal enforcers 2 game over any other game I have.  The feeling of shooting something is a great feeling (i guess for them)

[Visitor Q]

I would like arcade length from the screen, what every is the normal length. I would also like something that works through tinted glass.

[ArcadeBliss]

Hell at this moment I would buy anything that works *accurately* and has that arcade *reliability* Whatever is being considered, I would like it to defiantly work with a CRT.

[mrclean]

Hell at this moment I would buy anything that works *accurately* and has that arcade *reliability* Whatever is being considered, I would like it to defiantly work with a CRT.

Ditto

[drone]

I would be in on anything that is accurate, works with CRTs (WG 9200 + AVGA) and supports arcade guns such as Namco/Happ/Sega.

Give all the time and money I've spent on other solutions (LED lightguns, Act Labs) that I was not happy with, I'd be willing to pay for an authentic experience...

[Beretta]

well im JUST starting on my first mame project.. and have no intent on putting any guns no it because of it's style 45degree slanted monitor.

with that said i DO very much want to also do a gun cabinet, like t2 with the positional guns, those could be used for any gun game, but it would'nt be authentic on light gun games, so i'd probably make a mostly blank CP for light guns on that type of cabinet.

with that in mind i'd say 2 feet would be cutting it close.. i'd say 1 foot or 1//2 foot on a 19inch.. 2 feet should be ok for a 25inch.

max range you'ed probably use them would be say 5-6 feet.

i know a lot of people are going for LCD but if it worked with crt and lcd i think that would be great.

as others said the namco and sega guns are both nice designs.. i know recoil really is a nice touch mabe 2 version one with and without recoil.. and i also agree build qualty should be high, thick plastic is a must.

a 100 bucks for a high quality gun with recoil i think would be a great deal

preferrably in black or black/chrome as a glock/45/Desert Eagle. Please no lime green or oinge 

Thats another issue. I think in most jurisdictions the gun would need to be a "non-gun" color otherwise it would be illegal to sell it as it would be a replica gun. Thats why the gaming guns are these colors.

in the states toy guns have to have a bright orange tip.. the gun it self can look as real as you want it to be (check out air soft guns), but it has to have a orange tip.. alternatively you can make the whole gun bright red or orange or yellow or what ever if you wanted.

it's also illegal to remove the orange tip.

now.. with that said im not sure if that would apply to arcade guns with a cord attached.

in any event you could make the tip snap on.. rather then glued on.. and any one who removes it can do so without destorying the gun but also takes the reasponsability of it.
after all you complied within the law.

or probably an easier was to get around it would be to make the gun gun clear, or white plastic.. or at least offer it in these one of these 2 choices.

you can die plastic easily enough, as long as it's a lighter color then what you're making it.

IE: you can't die black something else.. but white can turn into anything.

and dying plastic is a lot better result then spray painting it.

now as far as gun styles my votes for a beretta 92, which i consider one of the sexiest guns of all time.

[mlalena]

Just to chime in again, would like to see LCD support.  Found a real cheap 37" LCD that I am now using for the system.

[danny_galaga]

 Andy's/Ultimarc's products (and service) have never failed to disappoint,

   That's not very nice!

"Roger, you always cease to amaze me..."

[extendedplayarcade]

Now? 

How about now?

Anything news yet?

 The suspense is killing me.   I have a Leathal Enforcers 2 waiting to be converted.

please!  I am waiting and  in Hope of a gun solution that works.

[mvsfan]

hey, yanno, some people are very particular, Andy. me, ive been satisfied with every product ive ever bought from ultimarc. in fact, for keyboard encoders anyways, i feel that the author of project arcade added too many extra pages to his book by reccomending anything besides the Ipac2, Ipac4, Or Jpac.

and its funny too because i did own the xarcade build your own kit at one point.

The main problem with his kit was this. all the paper tags fell off of his wire spider and after 3 years of using it on a 2 player pc Cp panel box I decided to yank the xarcade out of my testbed and finally build a full cabinet.

when i went to wire the new custom cp, i found that all the tags were gone, and that was indeed my first purchase from ultimarc.

needless to say everything about the ipac 2 and 4 and also the jpac are clearly labeled on the pcb and if you ever decide to reuse it its still as simple as 123.

the other bad thing about the other guys, is that a lot of them dont have direct inputs, or software programmability.

anyways, bottom line is that im not picky at all about distance as long as its close to what a stand up deer hunter or something similar would be. also, i would like to see a real arcade gun as long as someone comes out with something besides Act Labs dumb looking gun.

actually, andy, if you could just come up with a pcb that will interface a happ arcade replacement gun to USB or another port, that would be awesome.

id buy at least 2 right off the bat and also refer anybody who asks like i do with the Ipac/jpac.

[extendedplayarcade]

Everyday i go to http://www.ultimarc.com/controls.html hoping to see a gun control or any sort of news.

Can anyone tell i am impatience?

 

[AMDman13]

I vote for low res crt powered by AVGA! Glad to see that your interested in researching Light Guns! I would be willing to spend some $ on the real deal. I've been sitting on the fence for years waiting for an authentic arcade light gun.

[vertygo]

I'd also put in an order

I think versatility is key. Wireless isn't necessary. I'd say connections so that you can either use old school Lethal Enforcers guns, or "hotwire" your own electronics to your favourite nerf gun

Just as an aside, this new Namco gun looks pretty sweet

[mvsfan]

i think a good thing would be if an interface came out where you could hook up almost any light gun to it. id guess it would be the actual interface, and then adapter modules for each different gun.

this would make retrofitting old jamma cabinets a sinch.