Author Topic: Light gun market research question. (Read 27978 times)

DJ_Izumi · « **Reply #40 on:** April 03, 2009, 12:36:51 am »

I think a gun with LCD support would be the better way to go. Assuming you can make a system where using IR LED markers WORKS like the Guncon 3 for PS3, it would work on both CRT or LCD. Though maybe he could just have two models available. I hate to say it, as I like my cathode ray timing guns, CRTs are going to get progressively less common so futureproofing would be an asset. This technology is now in the main stream in the arcades so I doubt it would be difficult to impliment it in this hobby field.

severdhed · « **Reply #41 on:** April 03, 2009, 12:41:10 am »

yeah...Andy, i dont know exactly what you have planned...but a good LCD light gun solution would be in great demand.

Blanka · « **Reply #42 on:** April 03, 2009, 01:36:03 am »

Quote from: wooowman93 on April 02, 2009, 09:05:55 pm

Oh and don't make it cost too much please

Better good than cheap

Hitek · « **Reply #43 on:** April 03, 2009, 03:30:36 am »

Quote from: severdhed on April 03, 2009, 12:41:10 am

yeah...Andy, i dont know exactly what you have planned...but a good LCD light gun solution would be in great demand.

Most definitely.

Bluedeath · « **Reply #44 on:** April 03, 2009, 11:07:56 am »

Quote from: AndyWarne on April 01, 2009, 04:07:07 pm

OK just to follow-up.

A more direct question: would the following minimum distances be considered acceptable?:

28 inch monitor: 3 feet
19 inch monitor: 2 feet.

Thanks

Andy

perfect, when will you start to sell them?

wooowman93 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 03, 2009, 03:31:14 pm »

even better inexpensive and good

DJ_Izumi · « **Reply #46 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:15:23 pm »

It's already easy enough to get cheap third party guncons. The issue is getting light gun models that will survive usage, especially if you don't let your machines collect dust and encourage people to actually play with them. With my light gun collection I take the PS1 and PS2 guns and games out to anime and gaming events I help run so people can enjoy some Point Blank or Time Crisis. The events might only run 7hrs but some of those kids are playing the HELL out of the guns, frantically and insanely going at the triggers. I'd say construction quality would be a major issue.

I set up some cheap HAIS CRT based multisystem lightguns (Which seem to be physically identical to the LCD TopGun almost) and they were DESTROYED in 3hrs of House Of The Dead 3 on Xbox. Literally the triggers didn't even go 'click' anymore and one gun couldn't even be detected by the Xbox anymore. Third parties vary in quality. I've had decent results with Namco's own Guncon 1's but now one has an iffy trigger and another needs it's video passthough repaired. The only guns I've had that have operated flawless were the offical Guncon 2's for PS2 that Namco made, but that could just be dumb luck.

So if someone were making a hobbiest light gun for MAME and such I think one of the key goals should be to have it survive 'arcade level usage'.

TheShanMan · « **Reply #47 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:29:41 pm »

I don't think Andy would make it if he couldn't make a high quality, durable product. But I think some people here are getting ahead of themselves. I don't think Andy has said he is going to release a light gun product. The title of the thread says "market research", so it sounds like he's only in the exploratory phase. That said, I'm hopeful!

severdhed · « **Reply #48 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:41:48 pm »

yeah, it sounds like it could be a while..but it is promising news. Ultimarc makes great products...i couldn't be happier with my u360s and utrak. I'm really hoping that something good comes from this. I'd love to have an arcade quality gun for my cabinet that works with mame. i'd even be happy with something on the same level as the guncon 2.

so, Andy..if you are reading this...whatever it is you are working on...please make it compatible with LCD monitors. the caibinet i have just doesnt have the depth require for a CRT. and even though i've been pushing and pushing..my wife is just not on board with me getting another cabinet set up for Playstation 2 light gun games. i'd love to tell her that there is an awesome light gun product that will work with my existing LCD cabinet.

daywane · « **Reply #49 on:** April 03, 2009, 10:55:46 pm »

LCD, CRT, TV I do not care ... I can use any of the listed.
3 to 4 feet is fine.

getting the darn thing to work and simple to set up is key to me.
TV size I would be using
svid... 20 inch and 32 inch
Plain old TV 52 or 56 inch. I do not remember size right off the top of my head.

LCD 19 inch
CRT 19 inch

You make it... I will buy one.

a yoke would be nice next.
HINT . Hint

DJ_Izumi · « **Reply #50 on:** April 04, 2009, 12:23:59 am »

Another advantage to an LED marker based gun is you don't need to adapt it to support the video signal type you're using. Such as if you're connecting using RGsB or RGBHV or S-Video or DVI or anything else, an LED market type gun wouldn't care so long as the markers were positioned right and the gun was correctly calibrated. It'd eliminate a lot of potential headache that you'd see in trying to get the sync signal into a cathode ray timing gun. (Oh how cool it'd be to play Point Blank on a data projector. XD )

daywane · « **Reply #51 on:** April 04, 2009, 03:16:56 am »

I would have to agree.
seems better on manufacturing issue to go LCD
LCD prices are reasonable now.
a 19" DELL LCD is about $200.00
most of us have many old style CRT monitors laying around.
but for a new type gun that works well...
I would buy the LCD needed for a good gun system
This is not a cheep Hobie especially for a special system

mlalena · « **Reply #52 on:** April 04, 2009, 09:12:19 am »

Quote from: daywane on April 04, 2009, 03:16:56 am

a 19" DELL LCD is about $200.00

Dell monitors are a lot cheaper than that. 22" widescreen is only $170 onsale.
You can sometimes find a whole system w/ a LCD monitor for under $400.
Be sure to look at the small business prices when going to Dell's web site.
The business prices tend to focus on price instead of throwing in extra crap that you don't want.
Plus you tend to get better support.

I read in another thread (can't find it now) that people were looking for small secondary monitors to show control layouts. Dell is currently selling a 16" widescreen LCD (1366 x 768) for $71. Requires coupon.

Here is the link for some dell Deals, including the 16" LCD deal
http://www.dealcatcher.com/dell-sb-coupons

NIVO · « **Reply #53 on:** April 06, 2009, 02:21:56 pm »

just waitin on my test model for review andy

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #54 on:** April 06, 2009, 03:11:08 pm »

Hopefully you'll be allowed to tell us about it soon after!

Silverwind · « **Reply #55 on:** April 08, 2009, 12:13:22 am »

Quote from: AndyWarne on April 01, 2009, 04:07:07 pm

OK just to follow-up.

A more direct question: would the following minimum distances be considered acceptable?:

28 inch monitor: 3 feet
19 inch monitor: 2 feet.

Thanks

Andy

Sounds great.

Also 2 player at the same time would be fabulous.

USB connection?

NIVO · « **Reply #56 on:** April 08, 2009, 04:22:02 am »

preferrably in black or black/chrome as a glock/45/Desert Eagle. Please no lime green or oinge

BASS! · « **Reply #57 on:** April 08, 2009, 04:59:02 am »

There is always spray paint:-)

Minwah · « **Reply #58 on:** April 08, 2009, 05:16:02 am »

No one is sticking up for CRT's so I will

Of course if a gun could work with all screens that is great, but I would rather have one for a CRT (specifically a low res one driven by AVGA).

vartech · « **Reply #59 on:** April 08, 2009, 10:00:33 am »

I agree I have a avga and a low res crt and would love a light gun.

mayhem · « **Reply #60 on:** April 08, 2009, 10:21:58 am »

yes the range is good but it would have to work with LCD moniters as well. thats the biggest problem. i own 4 lcd light guns 2 x ver 1 and 2 x version two and there pap ...

p.s love the idear of the new U-Hid shame there isnt a version with just the 3-axis accelerometer on-board and nothing else to cut costs ...

saint · « **Reply #61 on:** April 08, 2009, 12:42:24 pm »

CRT would be great, but if you have to chose only CRT or LCD then I suspect LCD based guns would have a longer market viability.

NIVO · « **Reply #62 on:** April 08, 2009, 03:27:53 pm »

i woulda certainly pay the premium personally if it were both crt and lcd combined into one gun, switchable via a small switch located at base of gun where the cord exits the stock. But again, if this isnt feasible then nevermind. What would something like this be worth to me? Id easily have no problem with the $59.95-$79.95 range if it could handle both.

heemid · « **Reply #63 on:** April 08, 2009, 08:33:15 pm »

I would gladly pay $100/ gun if its accurate and reliable.

daywane · « **Reply #64 on:** April 08, 2009, 10:49:02 pm »

you make a good gun.
$100 to $200 range
I mean a DARN good gun.
I will build my cab to your specs.
yep I want a good gun cab that bad.
just like I want a good starwars/spyhunter cab

daywane · « **Reply #65 on:** April 08, 2009, 10:55:43 pm »

I just thought of it.
It might be under LCD? I am not sure.
My sister and also my younger brother both have new flat panel TVs
$1,000 + type TVs
these have a PC connection on them (VGA)
LARGE TVs (HD)
so vertical and horizontal games would be fine on same TVs
They won't let me hook up a PC to check them out

That's what I would like.
all my Mame gun games.
all my console EMU gun games.
SNAP

I said I would never spend that kind of $$$$ on any stupid TV.
This could change my mind

ahofle · « **Reply #66 on:** April 09, 2009, 12:26:29 am »

I guess I am in the minority here. 3-4 feet minimum from a 27" screen is too much IMO. Isn't that what those cheap LCD Topguns require? Back when I had the ActLabs light guns, I'd say people would generally hold the gun between 1-2 feet from the screen. I just 'tried' it with a measuring tape and at 3-4 feet back you have to actually walk forward to press the start button to continue the game and then walk back again. Remember, your extended arm is around an additional 2 feet, so you have to add that to the minimum gun distance. So at 3-4 feet you have to stand 5-6 feet away from the cabinet!

I could see it working for a showcase style cabinet, but not for a standup. Just my 2 cents.

DJ_Izumi · « **Reply #67 on:** April 09, 2009, 01:25:09 am »

A lot of arcade gun cabs however force you to be farther from the screen.

DX Time Crisis cabs for example use a podium:
http://www.paulsarcade.com/images/Time3.jpg

Others in uprights use a mirror inside the cab with the tube on it's back pointing 'up' and the mirror reflecting the image, resulting in the image appearing to be on the 'back' of the cabinate wall.

http://www.ihsjapanese.net/tc3.jpg

This is a different style of TC3 cab but I've seen the mirrors used on Point Blank, A51Site4 and othercabs. So you can't actually get the gun within 2 feet of the screen if you tried basicly.

ahofle · « **Reply #68 on:** April 09, 2009, 02:02:59 pm »

Exactly my point. Neither of the two example cabinets you listed are typical of the home arcade cabinet consumer that Andy is presumably targeting for this product. I already mentioned the distance would be fine for a showcase style cabinet (your first example). How many BYOAC people put mirrors in their cabinet display design to allow a greater lightgun distance? Also look how close that guy's gun is to the screen in the 2nd pic (probably 1-2 feet at the most).

DJ_Izumi · « **Reply #69 on:** April 09, 2009, 02:06:37 pm »

Quote from: ahofle on April 09, 2009, 02:02:59 pm

Also look how close that guy's gun is to the screen in the 2nd pic (probably 1-2 feet at the most).

My point was that, from a strickly DIFFICULTY point of view, 3feet or so at the least seem to be the standard. Even with him 2 feet from the plexi of that cab, the total distance he is from the CRT tube is at least three feet. So he's still playing with 'Three feet of difficulty'.

As you only complained about the start button being reached, I'm just saying there are ways around that. Of course, including, adding a start button to the gun.

NIVO · « **Reply #70 on:** April 09, 2009, 07:54:43 pm »

the shift function from the ipac with a small d-pad located on the gun could handle many options

ahofle · « **Reply #71 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:04:46 am »

Quote from: DJ_Izumi on April 09, 2009, 02:06:37 pm

As you only complained about the start button being reached, I'm just saying there are ways around that. Of course, including, adding a start button to the gun.

It was really just to illustrate how far back 3-4 feet really is. I tried it and it doesn't feel natural at all with an upright cab. Then you also have to tell all your guests to stand 6 feet away from the cabinet at all times. Or tape some 'stand here' lines on the floor 6 feet from the cabinet hehe.

severdhed · « **Reply #72 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:32:32 am »

i dont know how long the cords are on a guncon 2, but i know when i had my playstation 2 mounted in a cabinet with a 26" TV...it felt most natural to me to stand back as far as the cords would reach. 3 or 4 feet isnt that far.

BNUTS · « **Reply #73 on:** April 10, 2009, 01:33:56 am »

Is there anyway to get that orange shotgun from that deer hunter arcade game to work on a MAME cab, I believe the game was made by sega

iAtoria · « **Reply #74 on:** April 10, 2009, 08:50:43 am »

Andy, you better not be tuggin our nuts with this crazy Light Gun teaser!

To answer your initial question:
Preferred Distance: 2-3ft. w/ 20in. monitor
Max Distance: 5ft. w/ 20 in.monitor
So basically anywhere in the range of 2-5ft.

I know you made no mention of an LCD Light Gun, but it would be heavily recommended. Especially if you can work out the kinks and get 64-bit drivers for it. I believe most people on this forum would be happy to pay $100-$200 for it.

Ginsu Victim · « **Reply #75 on:** April 10, 2009, 10:08:15 am »

Quote from: iAtoria on April 10, 2009, 08:50:43 am

I believe most people on this forum would be happy to pay $100-$200 for it.

Speak for yourself. I want a lightgun, but not for $200. Lightgun isn't THAT important.

Organic Jerk · « **Reply #76 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:11:50 pm »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on April 10, 2009, 10:08:15 am

Quote from: iAtoria on April 10, 2009, 08:50:43 am
I believe most people on this forum would be happy to pay $100-$200 for it.

Speak for yourself. I want a lightgun, but not for $200. Lightgun isn't THAT important.

Yeah I would have to agree... that's a bit much..

Maybe the WHOLE setup for 200...MAYBE, but it would have to be a 100% efficient setup with some sort of a warranty if things suddenly go bad.

DJ_Izumi · « **Reply #77 on:** April 10, 2009, 12:15:38 pm »

I think the use of the term 'LCD Light Gun' is a misnomer, it sorta suggests that there are guns for CRTs and guns for LCD screens when a gun made for LCD screens that uses IR markers for tracking of course works on CRT screens as well. Or data projectors or a wall with cartoon figures drawn in crayons on it. Seems to me that the name 'LCD Gun' could potentially confuse some people who don't understand how the light guns actually work.

daywane · « **Reply #78 on:** April 12, 2009, 09:50:43 pm »

Quote from: Ginsu Victim on April 10, 2009, 10:08:15 am

Quote from: iAtoria on April 10, 2009, 08:50:43 am
I believe most people on this forum would be happy to pay $100-$200 for it.

Speak for yourself. I want a lightgun, but not for $200. Lightgun isn't THAT important.

how much do you think the first act lab guns were?
then after there was a supplyer issue they went for up to $500.00 on eBay

ahofle · « **Reply #79 on:** April 13, 2009, 11:46:38 am »

I paid $39.99 each for my Act Labs guns. This was before they raised the price for some bizarre reason.


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