Author Topic: New Product: Lightmite LB leaf button lighting module Now Available (Read 29811 times)

whammoed · « **Reply #40 on:** March 04, 2006, 04:46:03 pm »

Quote from: quarterback on March 04, 2006, 01:20:09 am

Well, I just ordered a few blue and a few green, so if you ship them out to me quick, I'll take some pictures of the greens for you

qb, I have assembled and tested your order. I will test each before they go out. Heres a pic of the the first sale of Lightmites. The greens definitely cast more light than the rest. Hopefully its enough. If not, they still aren't quite the brightest LEDs available so I can go brighter if need be, but there is a price difference when going any brighter.

whammoed · « **Reply #41 on:** March 04, 2006, 04:58:32 pm »

Quote from: markrvp on March 04, 2006, 04:31:46 pm

I just wanted to say that these are really neat. The two pin screw-terminal is the best solution for wiring power to LEDs that I have seen.

Unfortunately I have reached "paralysis through analysis" and can't decide which way I want to go with my next project. Do you have many of these? If so, do you anticipate having stock for awhile? How much would shipping be on one unit to try with my buttons and wood panel?

Thanks for the compliment markvp. There certainly are a lot of of options these days eh? Right now I have shipping defaulted to $5 per order. Now, if you only want some plain pcbs, I will throw them in an envelope and refund the shipping difference. Unfortunately, once assembled they do not fit in an envelope and must be boxed. Personally I prefer leaf swith buttons for their feel and response which is why I've put the effort into an easy, elegant solution to light them. I am curious to see if the retro fit leaf switches for microswitch buttons are adjustable like the regualar leafs. Judging by the pictures, they don't look like it but I hope I'm wrong.

spidermonkey · « **Reply #42 on:** March 04, 2006, 09:09:24 pm »

Nice job Whammoed ! I hope you'll still have some this Wed. I'll take 5 of all 4 colors if you have enough. I just have to wait till Wed.
Can't wait to get these.

quarterback · « **Reply #43 on:** March 04, 2006, 09:13:36 pm »

Quote from: whammoed on March 04, 2006, 04:46:03 pm

qb, I have assembled and tested your order. I will test each before they go out. Heres a pic of the the first sale of Lightmites. The greens definitely cast more light than the rest. Hopefully its enough. If not, they still aren't quite the brightest LEDs available so I can go brighter if need be

Looks sweet! I'm going out of town at the end of the week but, if I have time before I go, I'll definitly hook a couple up and I'll take some pics of a blue next to a green.

Thanks w'

mccoy178 · « **Reply #44 on:** March 05, 2006, 12:50:57 am »

Okay, I'm committing myself to this route. I really like this idea and it will meet my needs. Thanks Whammo and look in your inbox, you have mail! Post pics please of the test for mine please. Thanks man!

mccoy178 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 05, 2006, 01:09:33 am »

Two things, first, where is the clear at?(Is that an option?) and second, would you please add a link to the first reply of this thread that links to the selection of leaf switch buttons and any other details needed for the complete package? (If you added a small part at the bottom of that first reply, it would go a long way for people thinking about ordering, I would think.) I don't know what the prices are, but here is the link that Kneivel had for his leaf switches:
http://www.wicothesource.com/new2/pages/page87.htm

http://www.centsibleamusements.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=225
At this site, both the button and the leaf switch were around $3 combined.

Untill I hear back about the clear buttons, I'm only going to order half of my buttons. If you have any details, that would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: It looks as though clear is not made. Please either confirm or deny if you can.

whammoed · « **Reply #46 on:** March 05, 2006, 02:03:45 am »

mccoy,

Bob Roberts is my preference for a leaf button/switch source:
http://www.homearcade.org/BBBB/parts.html

Don't be scared off by his website. He does business by email and check/money order. He is excellent to work with. Seriously, a great guy all around. Steer away from direct order through wico, lots of reported trouble there. I don't recall hearing anything negative about centsible. I will consider providing the buttons and switches on my website in the future, after I get all other products and projects sorted first. (don't hold your breath

)

I know of no current clear leaf button source. Please post if you are aware of any.

I will email you with a question about your order.

thanks!

mccoy178 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 05, 2006, 02:06:50 am »

I ordered them through centsible amusement. Thanks for the Bob Roberts link btw.

whammoed · « **Reply #48 on:** March 05, 2006, 02:09:19 am »

Quote from: mccoy178 on March 05, 2006, 02:06:50 am

I ordered them through centsible amusement. Thanks for the Bob Roberts link btw.

No problem, Please check your email. Thanks again.

CheffoJeffo · « **Reply #49 on:** March 05, 2006, 09:28:48 am »

A bloody brilliant design ... I am going to have to rethink a particular project that I have have been thinking about.

In the meantime, these look to be a perfect solution for a dilemma I have ... I've been thinking about lighting the P1/P2 buttons on my Joust cocktail (the translucent red really call out for it) .. this is a nice, non-invasive solution.

Well done!

Cheers

Kremmit · « **Reply #50 on:** March 05, 2006, 03:53:56 pm »

Clear leaf buttons do exist, but they are awfully scarce. I don't know of anybody selling them.

mccoy178 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 05, 2006, 05:45:19 pm »

They are mighty expensive as well, like $8 expensive. I have heard they are out there for $4 somewhere, but that still is hefty. You add in the rest of the leaf switch parts, you're looking at $7-$11 a button! Too rich for my blood.

Knievel · « **Reply #52 on:** March 05, 2006, 10:51:01 pm »

How did I overlook this thread?..just had someone tell me about it.
Very cool item W, should make lighting the leafs easier for everyone.

BTW I've had nothing but excellent service from Wico. I'm in Canada and I think I deal with a different dept. than the US customers..could be it.

whammoed · « **Reply #53 on:** March 05, 2006, 11:35:16 pm »

Quote from: mccoy178 on March 05, 2006, 12:50:57 am

Okay, I'm committing myself to this route. I really like this idea and it will meet my needs. Thanks Whammo and look in your inbox, you have mail! Post pics please of the test for mine please. Thanks man!

No problem for the largest order thus far.

First pic: Lightmite Army
Second pic: Love My Customers

mccoy178 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 06, 2006, 12:05:14 am »

Nice! I'm looking forward to it. Thanks a ton for getting this done!!!

whammoed · « **Reply #55 on:** March 06, 2006, 10:49:17 pm »

Resistors are in for 12 volt version. Will assemble asap.

whammoed · « **Reply #56 on:** March 07, 2006, 03:12:12 pm »

Thanks for the orders so far.

**For now I simply have shipping defaulted to $5. For orders outside the US please add $3 when checking out. Sorry for the inconvenience, I will look into getting shipping sorted when I have a chance.

quarterback · « **Reply #57 on:** March 08, 2006, 11:09:06 am »

Mine were just delivered. I had forgotten that I ordered 5volt, so I appreciate the fact you marked that on the baggies, otherwise I might have 12-volted them accidentally. DOH!

I have a 12v wall wart that I was going to use to test these, so I just need to go through my box of electrical stuff to come up with a 5v solution just to take some test pics (my cab doesn't have a power supply in it yet)

I'll try and dig up a 5volt supply but I was just curious: for testing purposes, could I get away with three AA batteries just to light a couple of these up?

I'll get to them tonight and take some pics
Thanks whammoed!

whammoed · « **Reply #58 on:** March 08, 2006, 11:23:51 am »

***Be careful when using a walwart***
I grabbed a "5volt" one to test with. Luckily I checked it with my multimeter first. It was putting out over 9 volts! That would have been a waste of LEDs.
Three AA batteries in series would be 4.5 volts. I would think they would light up but I doubt they would have their intended brightness.

Glad to see they made it there so fast. Thanks!

quarterback · « **Reply #59 on:** March 08, 2006, 11:45:08 am »

Quote from: whammoed on March 08, 2006, 11:23:51 am

***Be careful when using a walwart***
I grabbed a "5volt" one to test with. Luckily I checked it with my multimeter first. It was putting out over 9 volts!

Absolutely. Somewhere I have one of those multi voltage wall warts where you can switch the output voltage. It was off by 2 to 6 volts depending on which setting you put it on. I was looking for 12 volts and had to use the 9volt setting to get the 12v.

Quote

Three AA batteries in series would be 4.5 volts. I would think they would light up but I doubt they would have their intended brightness

Yeah, I figured it'd be close enough to get a good idea, but having never dealt with a home-rolled LED setup, I wasn't sure how much of a difference the .5v would make. We'll see what I can round up this evening.

mccoy178 · « **Reply #60 on:** March 08, 2006, 01:24:24 pm »

I just received my package! Thanks for the stellar delivery!!! That was pretty dang fast. Fellas, they were nicely packaged, delivered fast, and as cool as expected. Thanks again. Now I'm going to have to bust out my arcade power source and hook them up. My wife is thanking you.

whammoed · « **Reply #61 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:15:05 pm »

Thanks for the orders guys. I've been way busier with this than I thought I'd be.

BTW, If you only want the bare board or board/terminal block shipping is only $2 since it can go in an envelope. I will refund the $3 after payment till I get the whole shipping thing straightened out. You can also request the complete version shipped unassembled as a kit in an envelope. Just make a note of it when you check out.

thanks!

spidermonkey · « **Reply #62 on:** March 08, 2006, 10:02:22 pm »

Quote from: spidermonkey on February 13, 2006, 11:41:29 pm

I love this idea Whammoed ! I love the look of the original trans leaf switch buttons when backlit but I hate having to fart around with the proper size leds,resistors and where/how to mount them ect.. I would DEFINATELY buy a couple dozen 12 volt versions (a few of each color) if the price is right.

Just ordered 20 12v litemites. Five of each color. Thanks to you, my next button lighting project just got alot easier

. Will you be doing another run of these ? Do you still have quite a few left ? I can see myself wanting more of these soon.

Thanks,
Spidermonkey

whammoed · « **Reply #63 on:** March 08, 2006, 10:07:52 pm »

Quote from: spidermonkey on March 08, 2006, 10:02:22 pm

Just ordered 20 12v litemites. Five of each color. Thanks to you, my next button lighting project just got alot easier . Will you be doing another run of these ? Do you still have quite a few left ? I can see myself wanting more of these soon.

Thanks,
Spidermonkey

Yikes! Luckily I ordered more than I originally planned. I still have enough boards left even with the 50 I am holding back for myself. I will be raising the price of an assembled unit at some point. I don't mind selling the parts cheap but I do value my time.

For those interested in the assembled board at the current low price I will post in this thread before I actually do any price adjustment.

thanks again

spidermonkey · « **Reply #64 on:** March 13, 2006, 11:01:05 pm »

Got my lightning bugs today.

Very cool indeed. Thanks for the quick shipping Whammoed.

Toonces · « **Reply #65 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:15:35 pm »

Hey, I wonder if a couple of these might work to light up a Robotron button?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7597729704

Toonces

whammoed · « **Reply #66 on:** March 14, 2006, 06:44:13 pm »

I have seen leds like that before. They generally have a *very* wide viewing angle. I don't know if that would be bad or good for the Robotron situation. Do you think you will give them a go? I am hoping there is a viable option for lighting those Robotron buttons without any modifications to the panel though. Maybe 20,000 mcd leds are the answer?

Quote from: Toonces on March 14, 2006, 06:15:35 pm

Hey, I wonder if a couple of these might work to light up a Robotron button?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7597729704

Toonces

Toonces · « **Reply #67 on:** March 14, 2006, 07:03:06 pm »

Quote from: whammoed on March 14, 2006, 06:44:13 pm

I have seen leds like that before. They generally have a *very* wide viewing angle. I don't know if that would be bad or good for the Robotron situation. Do you think you will give them a go? I am hoping there is a viable option for lighting those Robotron buttons without any modifications to the panel though. Maybe 20,000 mcd leds are the answer?

Quote from: Toonces on March 14, 2006, 06:15:35 pm
Hey, I wonder if a couple of these might work to light up a Robotron button?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7597729704

Toonces

He's semi local and for $1.95 I'll give it a shot. a 1W LED should be enough to light up more than just a button too. Waaaay overkill but who knows.

Toonces · « **Reply #68 on:** March 17, 2006, 12:11:06 am »

ok, I got around to doing some testing today. The boards did install ok, they're certainly thin enough. I had a little trouble with the PAL nuts but that could just be me. I installed them "upside down" to allow for the most room at the bottom of the button. I then set about doing various testing and took some pictures to show the results. The pictures are ~1MB each so be warned! Overall I would say these definately worked but with the dark blue buttons, things came out so-so. I am pretty sure with the right LED and some moving around you could get better results.

On to the show!

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0114.JPG - This one shows player 1 with 2 6,000mcd blue 5mm LEDs installed. Player 2 which is below it is using the stock incandescent bulb.

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0120.JPG - This one shows the difference between using the board (player 1) vs. the "Light Pipe" method (player 2). All LEDs are identical 6,000mcd 5mm blue.

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0121.jpg - a top view of the above comparison.

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0122.JPG - and from a short distance away.

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0141.JPG - this last one shows a top view with 2 boards installed. Player 1 are the same 6,000mcd blue LEDs used in the other pictures. Player 2 is lit using 15,000mcd white LEDs (it's all I had that was brighter than 6,000mcd). It's definately not twice as bright but it is a little brighter. most noticably in the center of the button where the light circle is a little larger.

these pictures were taken in a moderately lit room with no flash. standing back from the bottom lit buttons, you can't really tell they're lit. One interesting thing though is that you can tell they are blue. prior to that the buttons always appeared black from a distance. When you get up to the machine you see they are lit and the light is not distracting at all.

With the light pipe method you know the buttons are lit. No doubt about it. They look good too. The downside is that it could be distracting to some. you might find your eyes drawn to the pretty blue light..... Also, the light pipe method leaves a distinct line across the button like it's lit by a stripe of light. I suppose this could be dealt with by installing a couple more LEDs opposite the original 2. This is something I may try as neither method has given me the effect I want yet. Another option may be to try smaller 3mm LEDs and pushing them up the pipe until they hit the base of the button.

What I really want to acheive is somewhere in between. I really like the soft, even light of the bottom lighting method but as seen in the last comparison picture, even using LEDs more than twice the brightness rating produced little difference in how well the button was lit.

For now, I'm leaving the LiteMites installed in Robotron and getting another set. Sorry Q*Bert, you're going to have to wait!

Erik

whammoed · « **Reply #69 on:** March 17, 2006, 09:35:02 am »

Erik,

Thanks for the test on those dark blue buttons. They are a challenge. I would like to see you try it out with 20,000 mcd blue LEDs. I have tried white LEDs on buttons as well, and they actually looked dimmer with a higher mcd white led. The good news is that they actually fit on the robotron panel which I know was a concern for you. Could you snap a pic of them mounted from below?

Also, does the stock incandescent bulb light the button at all? Doesn't look like it in the pic. Seems like anything would do a better job than that. $:-\$

Currently I have 10,000 mcd leds shipping for the green buttons which are also quite dark. I haven't heard back from anyone on them yet but I'm afraid I may have to go for brighter ones in the future. The only problem is you start seeing a price increase when finding LEDs over 10k mcd.

Qbert won't have to wait too long, I have an extra set of lightmites in the mail for you as thanks for your help on that problem I had.

quarterback · « **Reply #70 on:** March 19, 2006, 10:29:03 am »

Finally got a chance to hook up a couple lightmite's and snap some pics. In all the photos below, there are three translucent leaf buttons. The firs one is a lit up green translucent, then an UN-lit green translucent then a lit-up light blue translucent button.

This first photo is taken from above. An overhead light is on in the room and the shades are pulled over the window and no flash is used. The difference between the lit blue and the lit green are pretty obvious.

This second picture is the same setup as the above, but from an angle. It's difficult to even tell the difference between the lit-green and the UNlit green button. This is true in person as well as in this photo.

This final picture is with the overhead light turned off. I also adjusted the exposure before taking the photo so the buttons actually appear in the picture the way they do to the eye in person.

The previous photos show the blue to be brighter and more washed out than it actually is. This 3rd photo is a more accurate representation of the color, the brightness and the difference between the blue and the green when lit. While it's clear that there is a difference between a lit and an unlit green translucent, the difference is almost negligable and, unless you're looking from straight above the green... with the lights off or with the shades pulled, it's hard to tell it's lit at all.

In a bright room (one with the shades open during the day) I doubt you'd have any clue that the green button was lit.

whammoed · « **Reply #71 on:** March 19, 2006, 10:58:44 am »

QB thanks for the test.

That green is terrible, seriously need to go back to the drawing board on that one. I think I will take green off the website till I improve it. I will have to get a few test buttons from Bob. I have seen up to 40,000mcd green leds and that may be the answer here. Otherwise you could try a 1 watt led like toonces used for his dark blues. (see previous post)

Anyway, once I find a solution, i can send the proper LEDs to you if you would like.

I guess the good news is that blue one looks good, similar results to the red I tested.

rdagger · « **Reply #72 on:** March 19, 2006, 11:19:00 am »

Quote from: quarterback on March 19, 2006, 10:29:03 am

In a bright room (one with the shades open during the day) I doubt you'd have any clue that the green button was lit.

I have found that when lighting translucent buttons you really have to experiment to get the right LED. On my flight panel I had good luck illuminating the dark blue buttons with blue LED's, but it did lighten the buttons. When lit with white the color was more rich. When lighting the orange button, I used white with good results. When using colored LED's, if the color is not very close to the button lens color than the button will either be off color or very dark because the lens will filter the light.

I have found some excellent super bright green LED's here. Super Bright LED's also carries a good selection. They have a super bright white (part# RL5-WW7035) that is suppose to have a warm more natural color. This might be a good candidate. I was considering modifying my rainbow LED circuit to add a few adjustable RGB outputs so I could adjust the color and brightness of an RGB LED to get the perfect button illumination.

quarterback · « **Reply #73 on:** March 19, 2006, 03:18:41 pm »

Quote from: rdagger on March 19, 2006, 11:19:00 am

I have found that when lighting translucent buttons you really have to experiment to get the right LED

When using colored LED's, if the color is not very close to the button lens color than the button will either be off color or very dark because the lens will filter the light.

It's true. Beyond the fact that the green is a dark colored button, you also have to take into account that the green LED is only letting out certain (green) frequencies of light, by then putting that light behind a green filter (the button itself) which is only going to allow certin (green) frequencies of light to pass through, you can easily end up with less transmission than what you'd get out of a white LED.

Quote from: whammoed on March 19, 2006, 10:58:44 am

That green is terrible, seriously need to go back to the drawing board on that one. I think I will take green off the website till I improve it. I will have to get a few test buttons from Bob.

Lemme' send you one of my green buttons. I have another idea (or 2) to try with my current setup and the current LEDS, but I was thinking I should just sent you a button and let you test away with what you have, including maybe just a white LED.

Quote from: whammoed on March 19, 2006, 10:58:44 am

I guess the good news is that blue one looks good, similar results to the red I tested.

Yeah, the blue look very nice. It's cool that the blue LED makes the Light Blue buttons "more blue" and closer to a dark blue button.

PM me and I'll ship you a green button and, in the menewhile, I'm going to try another configuration with the greens I have.
Cheers
qb

whammoed · « **Reply #74 on:** March 19, 2006, 03:38:54 pm »

Thanks guys. All good points. I will put in an order for 40-60k mcd whites on my next order as well as blue and green. They will be the 10mm variety but that shouldn't be a problem. I need to order some high flux leds as well anyway for the upcoming trackball lights, so another order was inevitable.

QB, I must say when lit, I believe I prefer the light blue to the dark blue. Its going to look very cool on your panels I believe.

quarterback · « **Reply #75 on:** March 19, 2006, 06:06:40 pm »

Okay, so I've come up with a solution that's like night and freakin day. It's not a 100% solution yet, because it doesn't hold the button in place in the CP, but it sure is a start. Take a look at these new pics from the top:

The green and the blue are basically the same intensity now. The green color is better in real life than the pictures show and the only downside is you see a little bit of the LEDs themselves, so the light isn't quite as uniform around the button, but it's pretty darn good..

How did I get the change? I flipped the lightmite over. Well, that wasn't all I did. I also used a thin 'wood panel' leaf switch instead of the thicker metal cp leaf switch. Doing this with a metal CP leaves the entire underside of the button fully exposed. I then flipped over my light mite and put the LEDs right under the button's bezel.

This is similar to the "Knievel" method, except without any translucent ring. The downside of this is, of course, that the leaf-swtich isn't holding the button tightly to the CP itself. But it shows that these greens can work after all. The pic below shows the two buttons from the bottom and the difference between the lighting methods.

You can see the opposing lighting methods for each. The green LEDs just weren't able to pump enough light through the entire green button's plunger to light up the top (and didn't even get close to putting any light into the bezel). But by putting the LEDs right under the button itself, it's a freakin light show!

The key now is to figure out how to stabilize the whole thing. I can go the Knievel way and either drill holes in my larger, white leaf switches, but I don't think I'll get the dispersion I need. I'm going to try and come up with some alternative piece of something that will fit between the leaf switch and the bottom of the CP.

You might notice that there's something funky going on with the way I've mounted my blue switch.

Since the Light Blue translucent buttons I have are the "long" (wooden CP) size, they don't fit correctly with the switch either, so I currently have two leaf-button plungers inverted and wedged between the leaf switch and the CP. It's not a perfect solution but something like that enables the leaf button to be tightened down while still leaving the underside of the button exposed so I may just come up with some partial 'spacers' to wedge between the leaf-switch and the bottom of the CP.

Anyway, I'm just happy to see that the greens can be lit up to a completely acceptable level.
Cheers

quarterback · « **Reply #76 on:** March 19, 2006, 07:14:11 pm »

More Success!

Okay, since I have a metal CP, the white leaf-switches that I have are thick, but they're also hollow. I originally thought this would be a problem if I wanted to do a Kneivel style lighting setup because it wouldn't diffuse the light properly but, in the end, their hollowness is perfect for my needs.

Since they're hollow, I was able to cut a chunk out of each side and put the LEDs in at a it of an angle. Here's a pic of just the leaf switch uninstalled

And here's one from the bottom of the cp. You can see how the LEDs are at an angle instead of pointing straight towards the plunger:

This angling of the LEDs eliminates the problem where you can see the two LED 'lines' from the top of the cp. Also (as noted in my previous post) lighting the green translucents from just beneath the bezel (instead of up through the plunger) is much more efficient. In fact, it might even be argued that my dark green translucent is now brighter than my light blue one.

Below is a picture from the top. I've tried to color correct it so you can get a feel for how good the green looks, but I still wasn't able to get the color to be as rich as it is in real life. The main difference between the two lighting 'styles' is that lighting through the plunger lights up the very center of the plunger's structural parts while you can see in the green picture, the very center portion is actually dark.

This difference is negligable and I only mention it because it's the only difference I can tell between the lit green and the lit blue. Both of them look freakin' great!

mccoy178 · « **Reply #77 on:** March 20, 2006, 12:29:44 am »

Good job man! I bet Whammoed is like,"right on!". Thanks for the pics. Noobs across the world are rejoicing!

whammoed · « **Reply #78 on:** March 21, 2006, 08:14:35 pm »

Good job QB. Didn't think it would be so simple. I still may eventually try the brighter leds the other way though, just for fun.

thanks!

Kremmit · « **Reply #79 on:** March 23, 2006, 12:18:18 am »

That is officially the first time I've ever seen one of the green translucents and not thought "Yuck". Looks nice!


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Author Topic: New Product: Lightmite LB leaf button lighting module **Now Available** (Read 29811 times)

Author Topic: New Product: Lightmite LB leaf button lighting module Now Available (Read 29811 times)