New Product: Lightmite LB leaf button lighting module **Now Available**

[whammoed]

edit: Now available at www.nicemite.com

OK, they aren't in my hands yet, but I am getting the order ready.
After getting an order of leaf buttons in, I realize I will no longer be using microswitch buttons.  Well there is no real easy way to get these lit with leds, and thats where the Lightmite LB comes in.  It is a small pcb that holds a two position terminal block, two resistors, and two leds.  You simply screw it to the button with the buttons pal nut.  And yes, I said it has terminal blocks.  Wiring just doesn't get any easier than that.  You will easily be able to chain the ground and/or + wires.  Board will be double sided with plated through holes.  Of course it can be used with different voltages by using the correct resistors +5v, +12v, etc.  I will likely have three choices available for purchase:
1. bare board
2. board with terminal block
3. complete board with terminal block, resistors, and leds installed.  Choice of red, orange, blue, green. (did I miss any?)


So what I need to know from you all, is what is your interest (if any) in such a product?  Would you buy?  How many?  What price puts it out of your range? etc...  There will be an order placed for sure, I am simply trying to figure out how many.  I already know how many I want.

Here are the prototype pics to help visualize and a pic of the actual schematic for the board.  Prototype was etched by hand using parts I had available so It does not have the terminal blocks.  Also the final wiring layout is different as seen in the schematic pic.
The board can be assembled for lighting two different ways.
Pic 1: Lit red button by "outside from bottom method"
Pic 2: underside of "outside from bottom method"
Pic 3: Lit red button by "through button holder method"  (think knievel method)
Pic 4: underside of "through button holder method"
Pic 5: Schematic of actual product

(white 3mm narrow viewing angle leds were used in testing.  Actual lighting results are much better with the proper color led)

Let me know what you think!

[quarterback]

Verrrrrryyyy interesssting!     

This may be asking too much, but is there any chance that somebody can provide pre-cut (and maybe even pre-drilled) white spacers?   My issue right now is more that I don't have the "Kneivel style" white holders which would allow me to do the "through button holder" method.

As you know, my cocktail has 6 translucents in it, so I'd be interested in like... uh... six of these   But, as always, it's going to come down to cost.   For example, if they're $10/board, I'm going to have to pass, because spending another $60 on just lighting these buttons is too rich for my blood.

Can you give a side-by-side comparison of the two lighting methods?   I'm surprised at how well the "outside from bottom" lights up even the bezel of the button.

I'd also be really interested in seeing how well you can get a green button to light up, since they're so dark (and because I might have three of them on my CP)  I don't know what LEDs you currently have at your disposal, but coming up with a decent solution to lighting up the green translucents to a level that's even close to all the other colors would be a success unto itself.

These definitely look cool, whammoed.  Kudos for putting these together. 

[whammoed]

qb,

Oh, they won't be $10, don't worry.
Thanks for the heads up on the green.  I will see what is available when ordering the leds.  I should probably get greens that are brighter than the rest.

I won't be supplying button holders, at least initially...who knows down the road.  The assembled boards will be the "outside from bottom method".  Using the other method, the leds should be attached to the board while they are in the button holder since its a tight fit.  You could try squeezing them in afterward, but this could break the leads.

I actually got more even lighting with the "outside from bottom method", so I would suggest that route.  I've seen it done well this way even with 1 led.  Plus you don't have to drill holes in the holder, so one less step.

(the uneven lighting I got with the "through button holder method" was likely due to the fact that these are short buttons in a metal panel with white narrow angle leds.  Knievel has shown you can get good results with that method.)

I won't be able to give a side by side comparison until the actual boards are in.  I only made one prototype.

[quarterback]

Thanks for the heads up on the green.  I will see what is available when ordering the leds.  I should probably get greens that are brighter than the rest.

I'm not sure that there are very many people who actually use the greens, but if you can come up with a solution while working through this, maybe more people will end up using them.

The assembled boards will be the "outside from bottom method".  Using the other method, the leds should be attached to the board while they are in the button holder since its a tight fit.  You could try squeezing them in afterward, but this could break the leads.

Gotcha.

I actually got more even lighting with the "outside from bottom method", so I would suggest that route.  I've seen it done well this way even with 1 led.

Interesting.  That's good to know because I've been mentally debating this with my own CPs.

I won't be able to give a side by side comparison until the actual boards are in.  I only made one prototype.

Fair enough.  I just asked because LED lighting photos are always a bit of a crapshoot since it's difficult to capture exactly what they look like in person.  In the pics you've posted, it looks like the "from bottom method" isn't as bright as the "through button holder method", but that first pic also looks darker overall.

In the end, the fact that you can get the bezel lit with either method is the best news to me.  Intensity can be adjusted using different LEDs, but the overall 'spread' of the light isn't so easy to control.

[whammoed]

Fair enough.  I just asked because LED lighting photos are always a bit of a crapshoot since it's difficult to capture exactly what they look like in person.  In the pics you've posted, it looks like the "from bottom method" isn't as bright as the "through button holder method", but that first pic also looks darker overall.

The "through button holder" was brighter, but not by too much.  It also had the two bright spots as seen in the photo.  I think both were due to using short buttons on a metal panel.  The leds are very close to the top in this case.  For metal panels I really think the "outside from bottom" method is the best.  You can get brighter leds if it is too dim, or put in higher resistors if its too bright.  Like you said, getting it "even" can be the tricky part.

So far you are the only one expressing an interest, hopefully there are more who would like something like this.  I will definitely order enough for at least those who say they want them here though. 

[Level42]

Sorry, I wouldn't buy this personaly. I used Knievl's method and it's sooooooo easy, really no need for a PCB. Just MHO of course. I'm an electronics engineer so it maybe just my fantastic soldering skills () but really I think anyone can do it.

(Also I think Knievl should get some "royalties" for his idea )

[whammoed]

Sorry, I wouldn't buy this personaly. I used Knievl's method and it's sooooooo easy, really no need for a PCB. Just MHO of course. I'm an electronics engineer so it maybe just my fantastic soldering skills () but really I think anyone can do it.

(Also I think Knievl should get some "royalties" for his idea )

No reason to be sorry.  This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for.  I realize I enjoy taking things to the next level regardless of the extra expense at times, and if no-one else wants to go along I would rather know it than buy too many of these.  Also,  for the short buttons (in metal panels) I'm pretty sure the button holder method is not the best way and I usually use metal.  Again, this is probably the minority as well.
I will be sure to send knievel royalties on all the boards I assemble using the button holder method.

thanks for the feedback!

P.S.  Lets be honest, not everything about your button lighting went sooooooo easy:

O, and drill with GREAT care ! This is what happens if you don't 

[quarterback]

really no need for a PCB.

This is kind of what I was thinking when I asked about the side-lighting-spacers.  I think an all-in-one "just slide this over your leaf buttons and they'll have that Kneively side lighting" would possibly generate more interest, but if I'm going to end up drilling holes and installing the LEDs myself anyway, I'm probably just going to wire the LEDs as well.

I believe that Kneivel found/bought some kind of translucent material which he cut out to size to act as the spacer.  I don't know if it would make it an easier sell, but getting ahold of that material, cutting out some 'rings' and installing the LEDs into that (making it a ready-to-go solution) might be more appealling.

I know you said that you feel the "button holder method is not the best way" for your setup,  but it's just a thought.

[whammoed]

thanks for the advice qb.  Knievel drilled through his button holder in his example I believe.  He was using a wood panel so didn't need spacers.  Trust me, if you use that method in your metal panel with your spacers those leds will be right next to your cp and thus right next to the bezel.  You will not have even lighting.  Maybe through your button holders with the right leds which would put them 1/4" from the top, but I can't be certain on that.

The "fully loaded version" would just slide over the button.  I think knievels method is great but its not the only way IMHO.

I think its clear that these are a no go for the masses though.  No biggie.  I will still be ordering some for myself and possibly some extras just in case.  I'm not really looking to come up with a product just to sell. Just seeing if anyone else was interested in what I consider the most elegant approach to lighting a leaf button.  Plus I have a couple other ideas i'm working on that I think people will be excited about.

Again, thanks to you both for the input.  It is exactly the kind of info I needed before placing the order.

**I looked, yep, through the holder, not a spacer:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=30565.msg257830#msg257830

Here is the post in that thread where oldskool just uses one led from the bottom:

Even 1 superbright LED per button works well.

[quarterback]

thanks for the advice qb.  Knievel drilled through his button holder in his example I believe. 

Yeah, I wasn't being clear enough.  His 'real' setup was right through the holders, but (I think) people were coming up with alternate 'diffusion' ideas and there was some continued discussion about doing things like using dollar-store cutting boards etc.   (I'm pretty sure) he located some other material online and tested it out.

Then again, I may have just dreamt all that

I'll see if I can find the posts I'm thinking of....

EDIT:  Here is what I was referring to.  These are from a thread on how to light up the shawnzilla (microswitch) translucents.  Kenievel found some stuff at Lee Valley that he made rings/spacers out of and he called them his "LED RINGS"  These are a few of his posts from that thread where he first mentions them and then an example of one in use:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37034.msg358346#msg358346
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37034.msg358372#msg358372
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=37034.msg373799#msg373799

Here's a pic, showcasing what he'd done:

[spidermonkey]

I love this idea Whammoed ! I love the look of the original trans leaf switch buttons when backlit but I hate having to fart around with the proper size leds,resistors and where/how to mount them ect.. I would DEFINATELY buy a couple dozen 12 volt versions  (a few of each color) if the price is right.

[whammoed]

qb:
gotcha, I forgot about that example.  My concern still remains on how close this setup can be to the cp and still look good.  Maybe more tests are in order....but I will definitely be going with the from the bottom yadda yadda 
Plus I REALLY like the idea of being able to easily chain the wires from one button to the next.  I'm sort of a neat wiring freak.

spidermonkey:
Cool!  I will keep you in mind when ordering, but what is the "right price".  I was hoping to order 500 but it looks like 100 may be the more likely number.  This would be a full dollar price difference per unit.

[quarterback]

My concern still remains on how close this setup can be to the cp and still look good.  Maybe more tests are in order....but I will definitely be going with the from the bottom yadda yadda 

Not to beat this dead horse, because I'm really not trying to change your mind , but I think that there are a couple kinds of those white leaf-switch holders.  Some that are solid and some that are 'hollow' inside.  I don't know what kind Kneivel used, but it seems that the solid material (similar to the Lee Valley stuff) might do a better job of reducing the 'hot spots' that you were seeing with that method.

spidermonkey:
Cool!  I will keep you in mind when ordering, but what is the "right price".  I was hoping to order 500 but it looks like 100 may be the more likely number.  This would be a full dollar price difference per unit.

I'd be a liar if I said I was definitely out of the buyer-pool.  In the end, I know it's just going to take me that many more months if I end up wiring the LEDs by myself, so I'm still potentially interested in the PCBs.  I just don't want you to make any major orders based on me.

Could you ballpark a price for us, whammoed?

[whammoed]

Could you ballpark a price for us, whammoed?

This is my hobby and not my job so I'm certainly not looking to get rich on this.  The bare board ballpark would be in the $1.75 - $2.75 range.  The $1.75 looks unlikely though.  Add terminal Block would be around $0.50 extra.  Add terminal block, leds, and resistors would probably be around $1.50 extra.

[quarterback]

Sounds very reasonable to me.  My guess is that I'd buy at least a couple to mess with and potentially six or so.

Could you ballpark a price for us, whammoed?

This is my hobby and not my job so I'm certainly not looking to get rich on this.  The bare board ballpark would be in the $1.75 - $2.75 range.  The $1.75 looks unlikely though.  Add terminal Block would be around $0.50 extra.  Add terminal block, leds, and resistors would probably be around $1.50 extra.

[RichyRich]

Hi whammoed,cool idea,I'd be intrested in 16 to 20 of these.From the UK though, is that okay.What payment methods would you take.Paypal???.

[whammoed]

Hi whammoed,cool idea,I'd be intrested in 16 to 20 of these.From the UK though, is that okay.What payment methods would you take.Paypal???.

I will be accepting paypal.  I don't mind shipping to the UK.  Thanks for the interest.

[Level42]

Sorry, I wouldn't buy this personaly. I used Knievl's method and it's sooooooo easy, really no need for a PCB. Just MHO of course. I'm an electronics engineer so it maybe just my fantastic soldering skills () but really I think anyone can do it.

(Also I think Knievl should get some "royalties" for his idea )

No reason to be sorry.  This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for.  I realize I enjoy taking things to the next level regardless of the extra expense at times, and if no-one else wants to go along I would rather know it than buy too many of these.  Also,  for the short buttons (in metal panels) I'm pretty sure the button holder method is not the best way and I usually use metal.  Again, this is probably the minority as well.
I will be sure to send knievel royalties on all the boards I assemble using the button holder method.

thanks for the feedback!

P.S.  Lets be honest, not everything about your button lighting went sooooooo easy:

O, and drill with GREAT care ! This is what happens if you don't 

WHAHAHAHA you're absolutely right ! The drilling is definitly the hardest part !! That's where the big advantage of using a pre-made set is of course.

Funny that you remembered that (and found it )

I'm sure there will be enough people interested, hope it works out, and remember what might be easy for me, it migt not be for someone else. I'm strong in the electronics and computer field, but the woodworking etc. is a complete nightmare for me 

[whammoed]

WHAHAHAHA you're absolutely right ! The drilling is definitly the hardest part !! That's where the big advantage of using a pre-made set is of course.

Funny that you remembered that (and found it )

I'm sure there will be enough people interested, hope it works out, and remember what might be easy for me, it migt not be for someone else. I'm strong in the electronics and computer field, but the woodworking etc. is a complete nightmare for me 

Teeheehee!  Yeah, just happened to be reviewing button lighting threads recently so it was fresh in my mind.

Anyone else care to chime in before I order a run?

[whammoed]

Got the boards in!
Pricing will be better than expected.    I will hopefully have them available for purchase tomorrow at www.nicemite.com
Pic of fully loaded board:

Pic of plain board:

Pic of board with terminal block:

Pic of lit button:

Pic of installation:

[quarterback]

Got the boards in!
Pricing will be better than expected.    I will hopefully have them available for purchase tomorrow at www.nicemite.com

Sweet! 

[rdagger]

Props for a very simple elegant solution.
Will the size of the circuit board  restrict how close together you can place the button spacing?

[quarterback]

Props for a very simple elegant solution.
Will the size of the circuit board  restrict how close together you can place the button spacing?

It looks like the size of the square is the same as the diameter of the circle (or very close).    It's easier to see in the prototype pics, but the real boards look to be the same size as the prototype.

[whammoed]

Props for a very simple elegant solution.
Will the size of the circuit board  restrict how close together you can place the button spacing?

The boards are 1.45" x 1.45".  Normal button spacing is 1.5".  The hole for the button is slightly oversized to allow for adjustment so the buttons can be even a little closer than 1.45".   Looks like if you just have two buttons side by side, the bezels of the button could actually be touching.  For Three buttons in a row they would have to be spaced a bit more but I don't know the exact number.

[whammoed]

Also keep in mind the boards are square.  So if you have a layout where you have a button that doesn't line up with the others you may have trouble getting things to fit.

Like this:
  XXX
X

HOWEVER, you can trim off the corner of the board that doesn't have components to likely make that lower button fit.
These are half the thickness of "normal" pcbs so trimming with a utility knife shouldn't be too hard.

[whammoed]

Also keep in mind the boards are square.  So if you have a layout where you have a button that doesn't line up with the others you may have trouble getting things to fit.

Like this:
  XXX
X

HOWEVER, you can trim off the corner of the board that doesn't have components to likely make that lower button fit.
These are half the thickness of "normal" pcbs so trimming with a utility knife shouldn't be too hard.

Just trimmed the corner off one with a pair of kitchen shears.  Super easy.  So actually that layout should be fine.  If you need that done and remember to drop me a note when ordering, I can trim down a couple for you.

[RichyRich]

PM sent.

[quarterback]

PM sent.

Hey ho!  I was under the impression orders would be taken through the website.

[whammoed]

PM sent.

Hey ho!  I was under the impression orders would be taken through the website.

Yes, I will try and get that online either by tonight or tomorrow.  If you just can't wait you can pm me.

[quarterback]

PM sent.

Hey ho!  I was under the impression orders would be taken through the website.

Yes, I will try and get that online either by tonight or tomorrow.  If you just can't wait you can pm me.

I can't wat!!!! 

Nah, I can wait.  I just didn't want to miss out by waiting for the site if everybody was PMing you.   

I was going to just wait and see what came up on the website, but I'll just ask (since I'm here) What LED color options are you going to have, or are you just offering white right now?

[whammoed]

I will have Red, Orange, Green, and Blue.  The green are a higher MCD than the others to hopefully have the light levels match up a little better since the green buttons are so dark.  I have white also but the correct color does a much better job.  They will be available in 12V and 5V.

[RichyRich]

PM sent.

Hey ho!  I was under the impression orders would be taken through the website.

It's ok mate, I wasn't trying to steal yours. I did pre-order further up the thread.

[whammoed]

Now available at www.nicemite.com
I think those that want these will be pleasantly surprised at the introductory price. 

***if you need the 12 volt variety, they won't be shipping till around 03-09.  I am waiting on the backordered resistors that were just shipped.

Thanks for the support!

[mccoy178]

Is RGB a possibility?

[whammoed]

Is RGB a possibility?

Only the ones with 2 leads that cycle through colors automatically.

[quarterback]

It may be a long shot, but any chance of a pic of the green?

Also, any reason to choose 12v over 5v?  Or are the led brightness/colors exactly the same, just different resistors?

I will have Red, Orange, Green, and Blue.  The green are a higher MCD than the others to hopefully have the light levels match up a little better since the green buttons are so dark.  I have white also but the correct color does a much better job.  They will be available in 12V and 5V.

[whammoed]

It may be a long shot, but any chance of a pic of the green?

Also, any reason to choose 12v over 5v?  Or are the led brightness/colors exactly the same, just different resistors?

I will have Red, Orange, Green, and Blue.  The green are a higher MCD than the others to hopefully have the light levels match up a little better since the green buttons are so dark.  I have white also but the correct color does a much better job.  They will be available in 12V and 5V.

Sorry, don't have any green buttons on hand yet.  I will get a few next time I order something from Bob.  The brightness between the 5v and 12v is the same.  A different resistor is used.

[quarterback]

It may be a long shot, but any chance of a pic of the green?

Sorry, don't have any green buttons on hand yet.  I will get a few next time I order something from Bob.

Well, I just ordered a few blue and a few green, so if you ship them out to me quick, I'll take some pictures of the greens for you

[whammoed]

Well, I just ordered a few blue and a few green, so if you ship them out to me quick, I'll take some pictures of the greens for you

Awesome, I'll get them out ASAP.

[markrvp]

I just wanted to say that these are really neat.  The two pin screw-terminal is the best solution for wiring power to LEDs that I have seen.

Unfortunately I have reached "paralysis through analysis" and can't decide which way I want to go with my next project.  Do you have many of these?  If so, do you anticipate having stock for awhile?  How much would shipping be on one unit to try with my buttons and wood panel?

[whammoed]

Well, I just ordered a few blue and a few green, so if you ship them out to me quick, I'll take some pictures of the greens for you

qb, I have assembled and tested your order.  I will test each before they go out.  Heres a pic of the the first sale of Lightmites.  The greens definitely cast more light than the rest.  Hopefully its enough.  If not, they still aren't quite the brightest LEDs available so I can go brighter if need be, but there is a price difference when going any brighter.

[whammoed]

I just wanted to say that these are really neat.  The two pin screw-terminal is the best solution for wiring power to LEDs that I have seen.

Unfortunately I have reached "paralysis through analysis" and can't decide which way I want to go with my next project.  Do you have many of these?  If so, do you anticipate having stock for awhile?  How much would shipping be on one unit to try with my buttons and wood panel?

Thanks for the compliment markvp.  There certainly are a lot of of options these days eh?  Right now I have shipping defaulted to $5 per order.  Now, if you only want some plain pcbs, I will throw them in an envelope and refund the shipping difference.  Unfortunately, once assembled they do not fit in an envelope and must be boxed.  Personally I prefer leaf swith buttons for their feel and response which is why I've put the effort into an easy, elegant solution to light them.  I am curious to see if the retro fit leaf switches for microswitch buttons are adjustable like the regualar leafs.  Judging by the pictures, they don't look like it but I hope I'm wrong.

[spidermonkey]

Nice job Whammoed ! I hope you'll still have some this Wed. I'll take 5 of all 4 colors if you have enough. I just have to wait till Wed.
Can't wait to get these.

[quarterback]

qb, I have assembled and tested your order.  I will test each before they go out.  Heres a pic of the the first sale of Lightmites.  The greens definitely cast more light than the rest.  Hopefully its enough.  If not, they still aren't quite the brightest LEDs available so I can go brighter if need be

Looks sweet!     I'm going out of town at the end of the week but, if I have time before I go, I'll definitly hook a couple up and I'll take some pics of a blue next to a green.

Thanks w'

[mccoy178]

Okay, I'm committing myself to this route.  I really like this idea and it will meet my needs.  Thanks Whammo and look in your inbox, you have mail!  Post pics please of the test for mine please.  Thanks man!

[mccoy178]

Two things, first, where is the clear at?(Is that an option?) and second, would you please add a link to the first reply of this thread that links to the selection of leaf switch buttons and any other details needed for the complete package?  (If you added a small part at the bottom of that first reply, it would go a long way for people thinking about ordering, I would think.)  I don't know what the prices are, but here is the link that Kneivel had for his leaf switches:
http://www.wicothesource.com/new2/pages/page87.htm

http://www.centsibleamusements.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=225
At this site, both the button and the leaf switch were around $3 combined.

Untill I hear back about the clear buttons, I'm only going to order half of my buttons.  If you have any details, that would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT:  It looks as though clear is not made.  Please either confirm or deny if you can.

[whammoed]

mccoy,

Bob Roberts is my preference for a leaf button/switch source:
http://www.homearcade.org/BBBB/parts.html

Don't be scared off by his website.  He does business by email and check/money order.  He is excellent to work with.  Seriously, a great guy all around.  Steer away from direct order through wico, lots of reported trouble there.  I don't recall hearing anything negative about centsible.   I will consider providing the buttons and switches on my website in the future, after I get all other products and projects sorted first. (don't hold your breath    )

I know of no current clear leaf button source.  Please post if you are aware of any.

I will email you with a question about your order.

thanks!

[mccoy178]

I ordered them through centsible amusement.  Thanks for the Bob Roberts link btw.

[whammoed]

I ordered them through centsible amusement.  Thanks for the Bob Roberts link btw.

No problem,  Please check your email.  Thanks again.

[CheffoJeffo]

A bloody brilliant design ... I am going to have to rethink a particular project that I have have been thinking about.

In the meantime, these look to be a perfect solution for a dilemma I have ... I've been thinking about lighting the P1/P2 buttons on my Joust cocktail (the translucent red really call out for it) .. this is a nice, non-invasive solution.

Well done!

Cheers

[Kremmit]

Clear leaf buttons do exist, but they are awfully scarce.  I don't know of anybody selling them.

[mccoy178]

They are mighty expensive as well, like $8 expensive.  I have heard they are out there for $4 somewhere, but that still is hefty.  You add in the rest of the leaf switch parts, you're looking at $7-$11 a button!  Too rich for my blood.

[Knievel]

How did I overlook this thread?..just had someone tell me about it.
Very cool item W, should make lighting the leafs easier for everyone. 

BTW I've had nothing but excellent service from Wico. I'm in Canada and I think I deal with a different dept. than the US customers..could be it.

[whammoed]

Okay, I'm committing myself to this route.  I really like this idea and it will meet my needs.  Thanks Whammo and look in your inbox, you have mail!  Post pics please of the test for mine please.  Thanks man!

No problem for the largest order thus far. 
First pic:  Lightmite Army
Second pic: Love My Customers 

[mccoy178]

Nice!  I'm looking forward to it.  Thanks a ton for getting this done!!!

[whammoed]

Resistors are in for 12 volt version.  Will assemble asap.

[whammoed]

Thanks for the orders so far.

**For now I simply have shipping defaulted to $5.  For orders outside the US please add $3 when checking out.  Sorry for the inconvenience, I will look into getting shipping sorted when I have a chance.

[quarterback]

Mine were just delivered.  I had forgotten that I ordered 5volt, so I appreciate the fact you marked that on the baggies, otherwise I might have 12-volted them accidentally.  DOH!

I have a 12v wall wart that I was going to use to test these, so I just need to go through my box of electrical stuff to come up with a 5v solution just to take some test pics (my cab doesn't have a power supply in it yet)

 I'll try and dig up a 5volt supply but I was just curious: for testing purposes, could I get away with three AA batteries just to light a couple of these up?

I'll get to them tonight and take some pics
Thanks whammoed!

[whammoed]

***Be careful when using a walwart***
I grabbed a "5volt" one to test with.  Luckily I checked it with my multimeter first. It was putting out over 9 volts!  That would have been a waste of LEDs.
Three AA batteries in series would be 4.5 volts.  I would think they would light up but I doubt they would have their intended brightness.

Glad to see they made it there so fast.  Thanks!

[quarterback]

***Be careful when using a walwart***
I grabbed a "5volt" one to test with.  Luckily I checked it with my multimeter first. It was putting out over 9 volts! 

Absolutely.  Somewhere I have one of those multi voltage wall warts where you can switch the output voltage.  It was off by 2 to 6 volts depending on which setting you put it on.  I was looking for 12 volts and had to use the 9volt setting to get the 12v.

Three AA batteries in series would be 4.5 volts.  I would think they would light up but I doubt they would have their intended brightness

Yeah, I figured it'd be close enough to get a good idea, but having never dealt with a home-rolled LED setup, I wasn't sure how much of a difference the .5v would make.    We'll see what I can round up this evening.

[mccoy178]

I just received my package!  Thanks for the stellar delivery!!!  That was pretty dang fast.  Fellas, they were nicely packaged, delivered fast, and as cool as expected.  Thanks again.  Now I'm going to have to bust out my arcade power source and hook them up.  My wife is thanking you.

[whammoed]

Thanks for the orders guys.  I've been way busier with this than I thought I'd be.

BTW, If you only want the bare board or board/terminal block shipping is only $2 since it can go in an envelope.  I will refund the $3 after payment till I get the whole shipping thing straightened out.  You can also request the complete version shipped unassembled as a kit in an envelope.  Just make a note of it when you check out.

thanks!

[spidermonkey]

I love this idea Whammoed ! I love the look of the original trans leaf switch buttons when backlit but I hate having to fart around with the proper size leds,resistors and where/how to mount them ect.. I would DEFINATELY buy a couple dozen 12 volt versions  (a few of each color) if the price is right.

Just ordered 20 12v litemites. Five of each color. Thanks to you, my next button lighting project just got alot easier . Will you be doing another run of these ? Do you still have quite a few left ? I can see myself wanting more of these soon.

Thanks,
Spidermonkey

[whammoed]

Just ordered 20 12v litemites. Five of each color. Thanks to you, my next button lighting project just got alot easier . Will you be doing another run of these ? Do you still have quite a few left ? I can see myself wanting more of these soon.

Thanks,
Spidermonkey

Yikes!  Luckily I ordered more than I originally planned.  I still have enough boards left even with the 50 I am holding back for myself.  I will be raising the price of an assembled unit at some point.  I don't mind selling the parts cheap but I do value my time. 
For those interested in the assembled board at the current low price I will post in this thread before I actually do any price adjustment.

thanks again

[spidermonkey]

Got my lightning bugs today. Very cool indeed. Thanks for the quick shipping Whammoed.

[Toonces]

Hey, I wonder if a couple of these might work to light up a Robotron button?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7597729704



Toonces

[whammoed]

I have seen leds like that before.  They generally have a *very* wide viewing angle.  I don't know if that would be bad or good for the Robotron situation.  Do you think you will give them a go?  I am hoping there is a viable option for lighting those Robotron buttons without any modifications to the panel though.  Maybe 20,000 mcd leds are the answer?

Hey, I wonder if a couple of these might work to light up a Robotron button?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7597729704



Toonces

[Toonces]

I have seen leds like that before.  They generally have a *very* wide viewing angle.  I don't know if that would be bad or good for the Robotron situation.  Do you think you will give them a go?  I am hoping there is a viable option for lighting those Robotron buttons without any modifications to the panel though.  Maybe 20,000 mcd leds are the answer?

Hey, I wonder if a couple of these might work to light up a Robotron button?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7597729704



Toonces

He's semi local and for $1.95 I'll give it a shot. a 1W LED should be enough to light up more than just a button too. Waaaay overkill but who knows.

[Toonces]

ok, I got around to doing some testing today. The boards did install ok, they're certainly thin enough. I had a little trouble with the PAL nuts but that could just be me. I installed them "upside down" to allow for the most room at the bottom of the button. I then set about doing various testing and took some pictures to show the results. The pictures are ~1MB each so be warned! Overall I would say these definately worked but with the dark blue buttons, things came out so-so. I am pretty sure with the right LED and some moving around you could get better results.

On to the show!

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0114.JPG - This one shows player 1 with 2 6,000mcd blue 5mm LEDs installed. Player 2 which is below it is using the stock incandescent bulb.

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0120.JPG - This one shows the difference between using the board (player 1) vs. the "Light Pipe" method (player 2). All LEDs are identical 6,000mcd 5mm blue.

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0121.jpg - a top view of the above comparison.

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0122.JPG - and from a short distance away.

http://www.gameadvance.com/robotron/DSCF0141.JPG - this last one shows a top view with 2 boards installed. Player 1 are the same 6,000mcd blue LEDs used in the other pictures. Player 2 is lit using 15,000mcd white LEDs (it's all I had that was brighter than 6,000mcd). It's definately not twice as bright but it is a little brighter. most noticably in the center of the button where the light circle is a little larger.

these pictures were taken in a moderately lit room with no flash. standing back from the bottom lit buttons, you can't really tell they're lit. One interesting thing though is that you can tell they are blue. prior to that the buttons always appeared black from a distance. When you get up to the machine you see they are lit and the light is not distracting at all.

With the light pipe method you know the buttons are lit. No doubt about it. They look good too. The downside is that it could be distracting to some. you might find your eyes drawn to the pretty blue light..... Also, the light pipe method leaves a distinct line across the button like it's lit by a stripe of light. I suppose this could be dealt with by installing a couple more LEDs opposite the original 2. This is something I may try as neither method has given me the effect I want yet. Another option may be to try smaller 3mm LEDs and pushing them up the pipe until they hit the base of the button.

What I really want to acheive is somewhere in between. I really like the soft, even light of the bottom lighting method but as seen in the last comparison picture, even using LEDs more than twice the brightness rating produced little difference in how well the button was lit.

For now, I'm leaving the LiteMites installed in Robotron and getting another set. Sorry Q*Bert, you're going to have to wait!

Erik

[whammoed]

Erik,

Thanks for the test on those dark blue buttons.  They are a challenge.  I would like to see you try it out with 20,000 mcd blue LEDs.  I have tried white LEDs on buttons as well, and they actually looked dimmer with a higher mcd white led.  The good news is that they actually fit on the robotron panel which I know was a concern for you.  Could you snap a pic of them mounted from below?


Also, does the stock incandescent bulb light the button at all?  Doesn't look like it in the pic.  Seems like anything would do a better job than that. 

Currently I have 10,000 mcd leds shipping for the green buttons which are also quite dark.  I haven't heard back from anyone on them yet but I'm afraid I may have to go for brighter ones in the future.  The only problem is you start seeing a price increase when finding LEDs over 10k mcd.

Qbert won't have to wait too long, I have an extra set of lightmites in the mail for you as thanks for your help on that problem I had. 

[quarterback]

Finally got a chance to hook up a couple lightmite's and snap some pics.  In all the photos below, there are three translucent leaf buttons.  The firs one is a lit up green translucent, then an UN-lit green translucent then a lit-up light blue translucent button.

This first photo is taken from above.  An overhead light is on in the room and the shades are pulled over the window and no flash is used.   The difference between the lit blue and the lit green are pretty obvious.



This second picture is the same setup as the above, but from an angle.   It's difficult to even tell the difference between the lit-green and the UNlit green button.  This is true in person as well as in this photo.



This final picture is with the overhead light turned off.  I also adjusted the exposure before taking the photo so the buttons actually appear in the picture the way they do to the eye in person. 

The previous photos show the blue to be brighter and more washed out  than it actually is.  This 3rd  photo is a more accurate representation of the color, the brightness and the difference between the blue and the green when lit.   While it's clear that there is a difference between a lit and an unlit green translucent, the difference is almost negligable and, unless you're looking from straight above the green... with the lights off or with the shades pulled, it's hard to tell it's lit at all.   

In a bright room (one with the shades open during the day) I doubt you'd have any clue that the green button was lit.

[whammoed]

QB thanks for the test.

That green is terrible, seriously need to go back to the drawing board on that one.  I think I will take green off the website till I improve it.  I will have to get a few test buttons from Bob.  I have seen up to 40,000mcd green leds and that may be the answer here.  Otherwise you could try a 1 watt led like toonces used for his dark blues. (see previous post)

Anyway, once I find a solution, i can send the proper LEDs to you if you would like.

I guess the good news is that blue one looks good, similar results to the red I tested.

[rdagger]

In a bright room (one with the shades open during the day) I doubt you'd have any clue that the green button was lit.

I have found that when lighting translucent buttons you really have to experiment to get the right LED.  On my flight panel I had good luck illuminating the dark blue buttons with blue LED's, but it did lighten the buttons.  When lit with white the color was more rich.  When lighting the orange button, I used white with good results.  When using colored LED's, if the color is not very close to the button lens color than the button will either be off color or very dark because the lens will filter the light.

I have found some excellent super bright green LED's here.  Super Bright LED's also carries a good selection.  They have a super bright white (part# RL5-WW7035) that is suppose to have a warm more natural color.  This might be a good candidate.  I was considering modifying my rainbow LED circuit to add a few adjustable RGB outputs so I could adjust the color and brightness of an RGB LED to get the perfect button illumination.

[quarterback]

I have found that when lighting translucent buttons you really have to experiment to get the right LED

When using colored LED's, if the color is not very close to the button lens color than the button will either be off color or very dark because the lens will filter the light.

It's true.  Beyond the fact that the green is a dark colored button, you also have to take into account that the green LED is only letting out certain (green) frequencies of light, by then putting that light behind a green filter (the button itself) which is only going to allow certin (green) frequencies of light to pass through, you can easily end up with less transmission than what you'd get out of a white LED.

That green is terrible, seriously need to go back to the drawing board on that one.  I think I will take green off the website till I improve it.  I will have to get a few test buttons from Bob. 

Lemme' send you one of my green buttons.    I have another idea (or 2) to try with my current setup and the current LEDS, but I was thinking I should just sent you a button and let you test away with what you have, including maybe just a white LED.

I guess the good news is that blue one looks good, similar results to the red I tested.

Yeah, the blue look very nice.  It's cool that the blue LED makes the Light Blue buttons "more blue" and closer to a dark blue button.

PM me and I'll ship you a green button and, in the menewhile, I'm going to try another configuration with the greens I have.
Cheers
qb

[whammoed]

Thanks guys.  All good points.  I will put in an order for 40-60k mcd whites on my next order as well as blue and green.  They will be the 10mm variety but that shouldn't be a problem.  I need to order some high flux leds as well anyway for the upcoming trackball lights, so another order was inevitable.

QB, I must say when lit, I believe I prefer the light blue to the dark blue.  Its going to look very cool on your panels I believe.

[quarterback]

Okay, so I've come up with a solution that's like night and freakin day.   It's not a 100% solution yet, because it doesn't hold the button in place in the CP, but it sure is a start.    Take a look at these new pics from the top:






The green and the blue are basically the same intensity now.  The green color is better in real life than the pictures show and the only downside is you see a little bit of the LEDs themselves, so the light isn't quite as uniform around the button, but it's pretty darn good..

How did I get the change?  I flipped the lightmite over.     Well, that wasn't all I did.  I also used a thin 'wood panel' leaf switch instead of the thicker metal cp leaf switch.  Doing this with a metal CP leaves the entire underside of the button fully exposed.  I then flipped over my light mite and put the LEDs right under the button's bezel.

This is similar to the "Knievel" method, except without any translucent ring.  The downside of this is, of course, that the leaf-swtich isn't holding the button tightly to the CP itself.  But it shows that these greens can work after all.    The pic below shows the two buttons from the bottom and the difference between the lighting methods.



You can see the opposing lighting methods for each.  The green LEDs just weren't able to pump enough light through the entire green button's plunger to light up the top (and didn't even get close to putting any light into the bezel).  But by putting the LEDs right under the button itself, it's a freakin light show!

The key now is to figure out how to stabilize the whole thing.  I can go the Knievel way and either drill holes in my larger, white leaf switches, but I don't think I'll get the dispersion I need.  I'm going to try and come up with some alternative piece of something that will fit between the leaf switch and the bottom of the CP.


You might notice that there's something funky going on with the way I've mounted my blue switch. 



Since the Light Blue translucent buttons I have are the "long" (wooden CP) size, they don't fit correctly with the switch either, so I currently have two leaf-button plungers inverted and wedged between the leaf switch and the CP.  It's not a perfect solution but something like that enables the leaf button to be tightened down while still leaving the underside of the button exposed so I may just come up with some partial 'spacers' to wedge between the leaf-switch and the bottom of the CP.

Anyway, I'm just happy to see that the greens can be lit up to a completely acceptable level.
Cheers

[quarterback]

More Success!

Okay, since I have a metal CP, the white leaf-switches that I have are thick, but they're also hollow.  I originally thought this would be a problem if I wanted to do a Kneivel style lighting setup because it wouldn't diffuse the light properly but, in the end, their hollowness is perfect for my needs.

Since they're hollow, I was able to cut a chunk out of each side and put the LEDs in at a it of an angle.  Here's a pic of just the leaf switch uninstalled



And here's one from the bottom of the cp.  You can see how the LEDs are at an angle instead of pointing straight towards the plunger:



This angling of the LEDs eliminates the problem where you can see the two LED 'lines' from the top of the cp.  Also (as noted in my previous post) lighting the green translucents from just beneath the bezel (instead of up through the plunger) is much more efficient.  In fact, it might even be argued that my dark green translucent is now brighter than my light blue one.

Below is a picture from the top.  I've tried to color correct it so you can get a feel for how good the green looks, but I still wasn't able to get the color to be as rich as it is in real life.  The main difference between the two lighting 'styles' is that lighting through the plunger lights up the very center of the plunger's structural parts while you can see in the green picture, the very center portion is actually dark.

This difference is negligable and I only mention it because it's the only difference I can tell between the lit green and the lit blue.  Both of them look freakin' great!

[mccoy178]

Good job man!  I bet Whammoed is like,"right on!".  Thanks for the pics.  Noobs across the world are rejoicing!

[whammoed]

Good job QB.  Didn't think it would be so simple.  I still may eventually try the brighter leds the other way though, just for fun.

thanks!

[Kremmit]

That is officially the first time I've ever seen one of the green translucents and not thought "Yuck".  Looks nice!

[quarterback]

That is officially the first time I've ever seen one of the green translucents and not thought "Yuck".  Looks nice!

I wish I could get a better pic that really shows the color.  After I get the whole CP put together and attached, I'll try some more.    But yeah, you're right.  I don't think I've ever seen a good pic of an illuminated green translucent either.  They're so freakin' dark!

Yeah for me and yeah for whammoed's Lightmites!

[whammoed]

Indeed, QB rocks.
QB:  are those green short?  I thought the currently available green were long but those look like short ones?

[whammoed]

**Warning**
The Lightmites will be taken off the market soon for an unknown period of time.  I am moving out of state and won't be able to fill orders.  If you need some now please get your order in before April, 9.

thanks all

I will be back at work on the rest of my product ideas after I get settled into a new house.

[mccoy178]

That was quick.  Did you know you were moving?  That's also pretty quick for a move.  Have fun.  Moving always is.

[whammoed]

That was quick.  Did you know you were moving?  That's also pretty quick for a move.  Have fun.  Moving always is.

I have been looking to move for several months.  It was just a matter of finding employment first.  I got tired of putting everything on hold which is why I went ahead and got things rolling on some products that have been floating around in my head.

[RayB]

How about revising your first post with the pricing on these. I searched the whole thread and couldn't find a price, but you did state you're taking orders until Apr 9....

[whammoed]

How about revising your first post with the pricing on these. I searched the whole thread and couldn't find a price, but you did state you're taking orders until Apr 9....

go to www.nicemite.com for current pricing.

thanks

[quarterback]

I finally got around to hooking up my blue lightmites to my cp.  Even though they look great with the 'standard' lightmite lighting configuration (lighting from underneath up through the button plunger) they just weren't giving me the oomph I was looking for.  So I reconfigured them in the same way I configured my green buttons by cutting holes in the button-holders and routing the LEDs into them up near the bezel   

I think the results are great.   They're not quite as evenly lit as with the up-through-the-plunger style, but they're also not as UNevenly lit as the pictures might make you believe.

In any case, here's a pic showing the two lighting configurations side by side.



Also, just for grins, here's a pic of both my CPs lit up by whammoed's lightmites.  looking sweet to me!

[Jeff AMN]

As soon as these are available again I'll be ordering for sure. I just checked the web site and saw that they were still unavailable.