Don't buy "Wico style" leaf joysticks !!

[Level42]

Being kinda new to all this, on my search for the ultimate joystick feel (I hate microswitches) I bought 2 leaf joysticks of E-bay. These sticks are often advertised as "Wico style leaf joysticks". To be honest, I bought them from a guy who did not mention this at all AND i bought 2 for HALF the price some others ask for one....but still:

They suck big time !

They are Chinese built, and although there are plenty great quality products coming from China lately, these still fall in the category: cheap, rubbish immitation.

First, trying to install one, I broke an E-clip. Could have been my fault, but I felt it went rather easily...
After installing, I noticed right away there was something very wrong...
There was movement in the stick, but in a way you do not want it to. When moving from one side to the other, there was some room on the stick, making the feel very sloppy, and to be honest, unplayable. So I took it apart to see what's wrong. The cause was that there is a lot of room between the shaft and the bearing that is holding it inside the rubber. Also I noticed there's rust or bad workmanschip all around !

The pictures speak for themselves. Maybe I could fix it with some epoxy or something, but I'm not going to bother, regarding the complete lack of quality on the rest of the stick.

DO NOT BUY THIS !

[Level42]

Some more pictures...

[Level42]

Take a look at the "quality" of the leaf switches. To explain why I didn't notice it was rubbish before: I bought the Suzo leaf switches AFTER I bought the China Joysticks.

What's wrong ?:
1) Look at the plastic holder for the metal leafs. It is 1 piece, the leafs are "sealed" into them, and overal quality sucks, all kind of bad mould plastic left-overs on the edges
2) (Not so clear on this pictures, but true) The leafs and plastic holder have an angle, they should be in-line of course
3) the metal of the leafs looks really bad ! Compare to the Suzo's ! There's oxidation already at the edge of the plastic holder !
4) The top leaf is as long as the bottom one. The Suzo's top leaf is longer. Here the push button (or joystick) should press on the leaf
5) The connection lips are "crocodiled" (probably to hide the bad contact resitance of the metal used ?) As you can see, I broke one off....Also, the female connectors I used, I had to use pliers to get them back in shape when putting back my REAL joysticks...

No need to go on, cheap, rubbish, do not buy !

[USSEnterprise]

Thanks, because I had planned on getting these

[Q*Bert_OP]

Thanks, because I had planned on getting these

Me too

[pointdablame]

At first, I was going to not even post in here because I thought it was common knowledge to avoid these sticks.

I guess some of the newer members haven't picked up on that yet, so I just want to second what is said here.  DON'T buy these.  If you want a WICO, you need to get a real one, or you'll be very disappointed.  I got one of these in a joystick lot I bought, and it is totaly garbage IMHO.  I think I actually threw it away actually... that's how much I didn't like it.

Get a real WICO, or don't bother

Sorry you had to learn this they way ya did Level42, but at least you know better now.

[Stingray]

I'll back up P.D. Blame. If it's not a real Wico, it's not worth buying.

-S

[Level42]

I'll back up P.D. Blame. If it's not a real Wico, it's not worth buying.

-S

Mmm, well actualy, the best leaf joystick I ever had/played was a ......Suzo leaf joystick..... a Competition Pro. Yes with leafs. Yes it still works great after 20 years. Yes I love it. Yes I wonder if Suzo ever made arcade versions with leafs...
Yes I hope the inductive Suzo will be available. No I haven't got a reply yet

Sorry, drifting off....

Glad I could prevent some others making the same mistake, and you can always transfer some money to help me recover financialy 

[Franco]

I didnt know this, so thanks!

[Kremmit]

Those sticks are good for one thing:  The handles fit a real Wico just fine, so if you were unfortunate enough to buy one, you can replace your old, scratchyd-ball, rusty-shaft handle with a nice new one.

There are also some older knockoffs out there that look just like these, except they have a much smaller ball and shaft.  The screw-on leafswitches are still a dead giveaway.

[RichyRich]

    I don't know if i should post this here or B/S/T but if you want a REAL wico 4 way(no 8 ways) there's a guy on ebay selling them from Canada.Got mine today, posted to the UK in under a week.Great seller.His name on ebay is nicade.Hope this helps some people after a real wico.

[RandyT]

Yes I hope the inductive Suzo will be available. No I haven't got a reply yet

I have an inquiry in place on these.  Waiting for pricing, but I don't have really high hopes for getting them inexpensively for two reasons:  The first being that Suzo makes high quality gear, thus costing more than most of the asian sources, and the other being the strength of the Euro against the US Dollar.

But I'll know for sure shortly.

Sorry, drifting off....

Yeah, same here. 

But to keep this somewhat relevant, I think these may at least be usable if you welded the stick in place on the grommet with some of that 2 part epoxy putty stuff (JB Weld?)   You might also be able to use some thin shim stock to wrap the shaft where it contacts the grommet part.  The leaf switches could be replaced as well....

Might not be worth the effort though, seeing as how you could pretty much refurb an old original WICO stick with similar effort/expense.

RandyT

[Level42]

Well the inductive Suzo is probably the answer to Happ's P360. Interesting since Suzo and Happ merged not too long ago. So I expect the inductive to be in the price range of the p360. IF it's available....

I thought about all the things you mention and I might still do it. But if the inductives are there for a good price, then those will be my weapons

Since I'm in Europe, I don't care about the dollar-euro rate in fact, I love it since buying from the states was never so cheap for us !!!

[Stingray]

I'll back up P.D. Blame. If it's not a real Wico, it's not worth buying.

-S

Mmm, well actualy, the best leaf joystick I ever had/played was a ......Suzo leaf joystick..... a Competition Pro. Yes with leafs.

Never used one, but I thought we were talking real Wico vs. Wico knockoffs.

-S

[Level42]

Yup, but I was adding to the reason why I was looking for leaf joysticks. I knew the Wico's were out of production so I thought that those would be a good alternative.....well sometimes you gotta learn the hard way

But I guess I found the solution to my problem. Gonna get me some Inductive Joysticks by Suzo: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=41691.msg380872#msg380872

Hopefully the true Suzo feel (short travel and throw) WITHOUT the clicky microswitch noise AND no moving parts that wear out.....

[Level42]

This thread should be moved to the Hardware reviews section IMHO 

Thx

[coasternuts]

Bah! Authentic WICO rocks!! 

You can always tell the knock-offs, they have silver on the bottom near the leafs.  WICO's don't.

I'm just saying that as I've never tried the Suzo.  But, the feel of the WICO takes me back to the day.

[patrickl]

You can always tell the knock-offs, they have silver on the bottom near the leafs.  WICO's don't.

Actually, this is not entirely true. The chinese knock-offs are copied off another base than the regular Wico base, but they do look identical to a real grey Wico 4-way base which I happen to own (bought a whole box of different old Wico bases on ebay). Of course the Wico base doesn't have the problems with bad fitting and bad quality leaf switches. Apparently it looks like a "Berzerk" stick.

BTW for more pictures and measurements see the Leaf Stick Comparison thread where Tailgunner measured everything up.

[BenderTheGreat]

Thanks! I was considering these, but now I AM SMARTER! YAY!

[Kremmit]

The chinese knock-offs are copied off another base than the regular Wico base, but they do look identical to a real grey Wico 4-way base which I happen to own (bought a whole box of different old Wico bases on ebay). Of course the Wico base doesn't have the problems with bad fitting and bad quality leaf switches. Apparently it looks like a "Berzerk" stick.

Just to add to this:  I've seen the Berzerk replacement stick (the original Berzerk optical sticks were so prone to failure, a special replacement was made by Wico to fit Berzerk control panels), and it does indeed have the same round bottom and screw on leafs, along with an extra-long (longer than Robotron, even) shaft with a red ball.  I also have a stick that somebody else has identified as original equipment on Taito  games, circa Frontline, which has the same round bottom and screw-on leafs.  The Taito stick has a shorter-than-Wico shaft with a much smaller diameter, and a smaller diameter red ball.  The actuator is cone-shaped, instead of cylindrical, and even though the restrictor hole in the joy base is diamond-shaped (4-way), all 8 directions are easy to hit.