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Author Topic: GunCon2 on PC-monitor  (Read 69490 times)

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ZeroPoint

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GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« on: June 05, 2005, 02:00:52 pm »
 :) I am happy to announce that the GunCon2 compatible guns now work excellent on PC-monitors (CRT) even at high resolutions.

My electronic circuit has developed into the next stage and I am just waiting for some new analyzing software to continuing working on it.

This circuit can now be used "out of the box" but I will continue to develop it to add some new really nice features. I can

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2005, 02:40:41 pm »
Wow!  If this is for real, I may have to jump on the GunCon2 bandwagon.

Are you going to be selling these "electronic circuits"?   Will they be $10 or $100?
No crap, don't put your kids in a real fridge.
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ZeroPoint

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2005, 03:07:47 pm »
Yes, it is for real !

Works best with GunCon2Mouse for some reason although WinGun has a better user interface.

There are still some developing to do on both the driver and the hardware before it can be released in a final version. (Well, actually it works great, but it can even be better!)

The real problem is actually to keep the circuit at a low cost. There is no problem making it work like a dream with expensive parts. You know what I mean ? The circuit should be affordable for everyone to build it themselves or for those who wish to buy it on a professional made pcb !


vibez

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2005, 03:08:41 pm »
Now if it could be made to flash the screen like the act labs guns & work well with an arcadevga + jpac, I would be very interested!

ZeroPoint

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2005, 03:17:18 pm »
Yes, one of the things in progress is to make the screen flash !

With this technology the screen MUST flash to get an accurate shot.

I have not yet tried it with my ArcadeVGA card. If it doesn

vibez

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2005, 03:40:47 pm »
Sounds good. You do know that the jpac does some converting of Sync or voltage. I'm not sure what exactly. So you circuit might need fine tuning....

ZeroPoint

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2005, 04:44:32 pm »
The J-Pac can convert the voltage on the RGB-signals to 5 volt. Some arcademonitors need 2-5 volt and have a input impedance from 1K to 10K. This has nothing to do with this circuit since we only use the sync-signals.

If you use the J-Pac you probably also use the ArcadeVGA card. This card outputs 15Khz Horizontal sync so you can use this directly without my circuit.

If you use composite sync (the J-Pac should be able to make this):
If the voltage level on the composite sync from the J-Pac signal is below 1 volt (I use 0,3V) you can connect the guns video connector directly to this.

If you do not:
Borrow the H and V signals from the video card and combine these in one way or the other. If you don

vibez

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2005, 06:08:38 pm »
Yes I do use an arcadevga + jpac.

I was connecting the center wire of the guns RCA cable (signal) to the Videosync on my jamma board, then connecting the outer wire (ground) to the Vground on the Jamma. This worked at all but a few resolutions. For some reason @640x480, windows wouldnt even detect that the gun was plugged in.

Any idea why?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2005, 06:10:33 pm by vibez »

Smog

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2005, 07:45:39 pm »
Hi man,
About the white flash, I suppose we could find an HW solution for that. it should take no more than a few resistors to drive flashing from parallel or serial (second one would be preferred since parallel port is used often for other important connection into a MAME-PC) port on a pass-through VGA signal.
GunCon2PC Driver on http://guncon2pc.no-ip.org/

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2005, 07:54:31 pm »
I may be wrong but doesn't mame already flash the screen?

I know it at least does it for Zero Point and Zero Point 2

FCEultra also does this with at least Duck Hunt...
If there's bees in the trap I'm catching em
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And sanding the stingers down to a rough quill
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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2005, 09:26:04 pm »
I may be wrong but doesn't mame already flash the screen?

I know it at least does it for Zero Point and Zero Point 2

FCEultra also does this with at least Duck Hunt...

Light gun games should do this as part of the game code.  Games that used mechanical guns wouldn't.

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2005, 12:21:22 am »
I may be wrong but doesn't mame already flash the screen?

I know it at least does it for Zero Point and Zero Point 2

FCEultra also does this with at least Duck Hunt...
They do flash the screen, but it seems as though the mouse coords aren't read during the flash so it doesn't add any accuracy. At least it doesn't for me with WinGun.

ZeroPoint

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2005, 04:43:07 am »
About the J-Pac: I do not have a J-Pac myself so I need more information about your setup (connections, monitor etc.) before I can help you. Anyway I recommend you to use a separate circuit connected between your ArcadeVGA card and your J-Pac for connecting the gun. There are so many ways to connect things together. This is why I make my circuit so it should be connected directly to the graphics card via rgb, s-vhs or composite so that further connections can vary except from scanconverters etc. I will try to connect to the ArcadeVGA as soon as I can.

About the screen flash: Yes, it is easy to make the screen flash via rgb-signals on arcademonitors, scart-tvs and pc-monitors. I do not think the TIMING of the flash should be controlled by software but by hardware timed to the sync signals. TRIGGERING the flash must be controlled by software via (as you say) the parallel or serial port. Many people use s-vhs or composite for connection to their TV. I would really like to use a sync-separator to make things a little easier with screen-flashing on these although this increases the component-costs. I could of course make two versions, one for vga-signal and one for video signal. What do you think ???

Smog

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2005, 05:34:23 am »
@zeropoint

You can try to do anything you want but, there is one thing I learned writing the driver, you will never be able to cover all the ppl's configurations :D

When I start writing it I thought about the RGB connection and this is the way I meant it to work. I am happy that ppl have tested many different combibations. Some connections had less results than other ending up in driver hackin and very dirty things to make it work (in reality some ppl discovered it is just a connection issue).

So, what I want to say, you could even add a LM1881 to separate syncs from composite out and so on .. but tomorrow there will be someone who will say "How do I connect it to my satellite antenna?" :D
The rigth way is starting with the simplest connection (hopefully the one you can test and work on) and after that you "could" try to satisfy the more different request you can.

About the HW :
I don't think you should hook the sync. It would need a microcontroller for that but we can do without. Just put white level on the VGA for a couple o millisecs.

If you handle to show me something in HW to handle the flash I can try to modify the driver to handle it. I can set the TX HI on the serial port when you pull the trigger and read coordinates some millisecs after.
GunCon2PC Driver on http://guncon2pc.no-ip.org/

ZeroPoint

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2005, 06:13:01 am »
I know what you mean ! Many people ask things before they think things through and I probably do that myself some times !? That

Smog

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2005, 08:14:08 am »
about the micro .. you're right we could just AND togheter the TX (well .. it is not TTL so it should be parted into 5v) with the Vsync and after that you could sustain the white out for 1/50 sec with an RC (or some frames more. The more you retain less syncronization problem  I'll have in delaying the read of the coordinates)  ....
I think it can work this way ... even I don't have a lot of time in next days/weeks ... but the world was not created in one day, right ?

The ideal would be merging all in one circuit :

- Sync xoring
- TTL to composite level adaption
- White frame flashing

And having a passthrough with two nice VGA connectors ...
GunCon2PC Driver on http://guncon2pc.no-ip.org/

Smog

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2005, 08:20:06 am »
One last thing ... maybe it is to advanced for this time but it's a good idea to work on : flashing at half of the pixel clock (just one pixel each two is overwritten by white) should result in TRASPARENT-WHITE flashing that gives much better results than the ALL-WHITE flash of act-labs.
GunCon2PC Driver on http://guncon2pc.no-ip.org/

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2005, 11:50:48 am »
I always wondered why console games didn't flash as much, but yet where just as accurate.  Or flashing grey.

It would be very interesting if you could just flash a grid and so you can still see the background a little.  Make it a bit less... extreme.

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2005, 07:05:51 pm »
Apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick here - my eye just caught by idea of using guncon2s with a pc monitor.

I thought the whole point of guncon2 guns was that they tracked all the time without flashing the screen unlike the actlabs guns. Hence they would be great for games like T2 which are based on positionaljoysticks.

So could someone clarify why you are building a circuit to flash the screen with a guncon2? Or am I just sounding completely stupid (quite possible, its late for me!)

vibez

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2005, 07:14:24 pm »
They work in the same way as the actlabs guns. They can only read light areas of the screen, hence the need for a hardware flash in games like T2 which dont flash the screen.

Only camera based guns will work with light & dark pixels
« Last Edit: June 06, 2005, 07:17:15 pm by vibez »

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2005, 07:51:32 pm »
So, how exactly did the Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo versions of Terminator 2 work? Did Menacer and Super Scope guns use cameras, or did the game play differently from the arcade version to work with the optical guns?

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2005, 08:33:50 pm »
So, how exactly did the Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo versions of Terminator 2 work? Did Menacer and Super Scope guns use cameras, or did the game play differently from the arcade version to work with the optical guns?

the menacer and super scope were both lightguns so the gameplay was tweaked to work with lightguns AFAIK..   I know that was the case with Operation Wolf on NES.  The NES gun didnt track in real time when the trigger was held so it was more like playing with a pistol instead of an Uzi.

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2005, 02:52:27 am »
Hang on I'm confused now. I Know the guncon2 tracked across the screen without flashing on a PS2, and people have posted in the guncon2 driver thread that they have had the samething working (using the guncon2 as the mouse pointer in windows (on a TV) - although with some tracking/accuracy issues).

Does this mean that although this uses the same driver it only tracks when the trigger is pulled? Seems to defeat the purpose of building a driver/circuit to adapt the guncon2 to a PC monitor....?

vibez

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2005, 04:21:49 am »
It does track across my desktop without a flash. But as soon as you aim over a black part, it stops tracking. ( that is why we need a HW flash - for games that were not designed for light guns)

It just how these types of guns work. It will be the same on the PS2. It has to be.

These gun are not designed to be trackable.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2005, 04:32:20 am by vibez »

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2005, 05:21:23 am »
the menacer and super scope were both lightguns so the gameplay was tweaked to work with lightguns AFAIK..   I know that was the case with Operation Wolf on NES.  The NES gun didnt track in real time when the trigger was held so it was more like playing with a pistol instead of an Uzi.

Remember though that the Menacer and Super-Scope DID have IR trackers that you placed on top of the TV. They were tracked that way so you could have games with autofire that tracked across the screen.

This was obviously an improvement over the NES which didn't track the lightgun and just relied on screen flashes.

SirPoonga

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2005, 11:20:21 am »
dumb question, but I haven't read the other entire guncon thread.  Where can we get this info? driver? etc....

Also can you use two?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2005, 11:23:51 am by SirPoonga »

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2005, 01:00:31 pm »

SirPoonga

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2005, 01:09:54 pm »
so it is the same circuit as the arcade/tv version?  no changes?  I just want to make this clear.

Also, the important image (the vga one) is not there!

plus I am missing the docs where you can hook up two to vga.  I have to read this entire thread yet too.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2005, 01:20:42 pm by SirPoonga »

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2005, 03:35:23 pm »
I hate to ask, but will any of this work with my Linux cabinet?  I'm running AdvanceMame with a G400 connected to a standard arcade monitor.  I understand the original GunCon2 drivers were Linux based, but it seems that the new drivers being referred to in these threads are all for WinXP.  Is that correct?  What is the status of the Linux drivers?

Thanks

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2005, 05:21:05 pm »
so it is the same circuit as the arcade/tv version?  no changes?  I just want to make this clear.

Also, the important image (the vga one) is not there!

plus I am missing the docs where you can hook up two to vga.  I have to read this entire thread yet too.

The Pc monitor circuit hasnt been designed yet. The only know working combo's are detailed here http://intruderalert.myarcade.org/GUNCON2.htm

@csete - XP only for now

SirPoonga

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2005, 05:42:51 pm »
ok, I get it, ZeroPoint is just indicating it is possible, just not available for public yet.

I'm just excited.  One reason I didn't get the act labs was that it had to be plugged into vga too.  That means I'd need a VGA port access on the outside.  With this I could just mount RCA ports next to the vga and have easily removable guns.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2005, 05:45:26 pm by SirPoonga »

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2005, 05:28:22 am »
Quote
I hate to ask, but will any of this work with my Linux cabinet?


No it will not.

As far as I know the linux driver you are talking about are not guncon2 driver but the guncon2-API in the linux development kit for PS2.
I think no real guncon2 driver exists for linux yet (but not sure of that, cause I really don't mind of linux for emulation).
I already gave relevant part of my driver sources to Andrea Mazzoleni that develops a very important build of mame for linux (Advancemame). He told me he was working on that. You only have to hope he will.
GunCon2PC Driver on http://guncon2pc.no-ip.org/

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2005, 10:19:30 am »
hmm... so do you think the guncon2 will work for PC monitors, i'm gonna use a pc monitor my cab and having a light gun will be a great feature  ;D

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2005, 11:01:30 am »
Note...

Yes: Guncon2 compatible guns now work on PC-monitors !

No: The circuit has not been released !

Why: Work in progress ! Adding new features etc. and making sure that there will be no bullet holes in the screen when shooting at it !

Problem: Can only work on this project in the weekends !

Hopefully you will be blasting those zombies of your PC-monitor soon...

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2005, 11:48:12 am »
ZeroPoint, is it possible to have two guns on a pc monitor?  Just curious.

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2005, 12:05:45 pm »
SirPoonga,
let me explain you one thing that could be of help.

The circuit zeropoint is working on is used to supply an hardware adaption of the VGA sync level for the guncon2 to make it work on standard pc-monitor.

Since the software driver is the same, all the non-connection related issues are the same like for the other connections type.

So basically: yes! It is possible to connect 2 guns.

GunCon2PC Driver on http://guncon2pc.no-ip.org/

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2005, 12:23:27 pm »
OMG It will be gun slinging mayhem  :police:

SirPoonga

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2005, 12:43:17 pm »
SirPoonga,
let me explain you one thing that could be of help.

The circuit zeropoint is working on is used to supply an hardware adaption of the VGA sync level for the guncon2 to make it work on standard pc-monitor.

Since the software driver is the same, all the non-connection related issues are the same like for the other connections type.

So basically: yes! It is possible to connect 2 guns.
I figured as much, but I had to make sure.  I don't want to buy something without finding out if it does what i wnat it to do first :)

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2005, 02:48:31 pm »
About the GunCon2 with J-PAC:
The J-PAC produces a 5 volt composite sync signal which is the correct level for arcade monitors. But this might be too high for the gun, which is expecting a sync derived from composite video. I have a gun on order to test with.
I think a better way would be to take the sync from before the J-PAC, using the X-OR circuit to produce composite from H and V.
I have already drawn up a simple PCB which has male/female D connectors and an X-OR circuit, and a RCA connector for the gun. If there is any demand I'll get this made, it could be used with orwithout the J-PAC.
Andy W

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Re: GunCon2 on PC-monitor
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2005, 04:54:44 pm »
Andy, how about another possiblity.  Have an RCA cable directly on an arcadevga for those of us who don't use jpac?  Have the circuitry already part of the video card?  Then one would just need t plug in the gun...