Mortal Kombat H: A Kompletely Kustom and Holographic Kopy of Mortal Kombat II

[PDAisAok]

This is an idea I've been thinking about for many years now.  When I was about 10 years old I tried out Sega's Time Traveler arcade for the first time



I was completely blown away by the concept: a Holographic game that seemed to appear on a flat glass surface out of nowhere.  It was about 15 year later that I purchased my own Time Traveler and Holosseum arcade cabinets to add some unique and nostalgic pieces to my collection.  They were great for nostalgia but there was only one problem, both of the games are pretty lousy.  Time Traveler is another boring Laser Disc based game and Holosseum is a completely forgettable fighting game.  These are the only two games that were ever made for this hardware platform before Sega abandoned the cabinet's format.  I think it is time to give the hardware another lease on life, so I present my big custom project for 2016:


Mortal Kombat H  A holographic version of Mortal Kombat II built from the ground up in M.U.G.E.N. and designed for the Sega Hologram hardware cabinet. 

First concept image


I'm hoping this will be the first (enjoyable) game for this unique hardware platform.  There are some design challenges that will come with this project.  I need to first do some test runs on the hardware to see where the usable screen bounds will be before being too distorted by the parabolic mirror.  Thankfully M.U.G.E.N. has options to limit player movement so there is some hope. Background art (stages) will have to be either limited or non-existent to maintain the illusion that the characters are holograms on the playfield. The control panel will also have to be designed from scratch as I don't think the original piece has a flat surface tall enough to accommodate the original button layout.  I'm also hoping to include some custom hardware around the play field that will react to certain events in the game (graphics or animations that only show up when a Fatality is performed, an actual Dan Forden popout when "toasty" happens in the game rather than being on the screen). There will also be laser-cut "Mortal Kombat H" blocks on the play field coated in U.V. paint to replace the geometric shapes from the original hardware that glowed from the blacklight in the cabinet. The Speaker grills will be replaced with laser-cut MK dragon logos and include red LEDS behind them.  One downside with this project is I'll have to sacrifice my Holosseum cabinet to make this happen. I could wait to find just the right junker cabinet but there's no telling how long it would take for a Holosseum project cabinet to show up for sale.  Hopefully I'll be able to post some initial test videos with a modified copy of the game running on the hardware soon to get an idea whether or not this is even feasible or D.O.A.

EDIT:

To clarify, the condition of the Holosseum cabinet that I would intend on using for this project is in pretty bad shape.  I've been collecting/restoring arcades and pinball machines for a little over a decade now.  Here is my page on VAPS

http://www.arcade-museum.com/members/member_detail.php?member_id=385974 

When I first started buying cabinets I remember visiting a very large warehouse in OKC where I saw original cabinets being destroyed as I showed up (I specifically remember a time when I pulled up and saw a ms pacman cabaret cabinet being destroyed with a rubber mallet)  It was painful to see these pieces of history being destroyed.  My Holosseum cabinet is FAR from being in collector's condition.  It was in pretty bad shape when I purchased it several years ago.  The boards did work though but the artwork was in shambles, the white coating on the cabinet was peeling off and missing huge chunks, the wooden blocks on the play field were either gone or roached, the marquee was missing, in other words it was in pretty bad shape to begin with.  I bought it because of its rarity and my affinity for the platform.  Unfortunately, even as a collector and preservationist I'm not sure I see much value in preserving my particular Holosseum.  IDEALLY, I would love to find a spare parabolic mirror and build a cabinet from scratch, this is my PRIMARY objective.  If I cannot find these parts however, the junker will most likely be converted.  But I don't want people to think I'm destroying a collector's piece, it's far from that.  Anything that can be salvaged from the original cabinet (any salvageable artwork, the original control panel, boards, wiring, etc) absolutely will be saved and stored away.  I'm not taking a hammer to anything.  The original cabinet itself will not be altered in any way that would not be someday reversible and absolutely nothing worth preserving will be destroyed.

[yotsuya]

On one hand, I want to commend you for thinking outside the box, but the other hand I'm disappointed you're going to tear up that original cabinet. Yeah, I know, they're big and old and nobody likes them, but there are definitely collectors out there who are looking for those cabinets. Oh well. Good luck with your project.

[PDAisAok]

On one hand, I want to commend you for thinking outside the box, but the other hand I'm disappointed you're going to tear up that original cabinet. Yeah, I know, they're big and old and nobody likes them, but there are definitely collectors out there who are looking for those cabinets. Oh well. Good luck with your project.

Unfortunately I think the only alternative would be to build a new cabinet from scratch and hope to find a spare parabolic mirror piece from an already junked cabinet or a NOS part.  This is still an option since I really don't want to convert either cabinet.  I think the possibility of that piece showing up for sale though is pretty low

[Slippyblade]

Depending on the scale of the parabolic mirror needed...  I just checked Ebay and there are a LOT of parabolic mirrors available.  Most seem to be for solar cookers though, don't know if they'd work though but less than $100 for most of em.

[PDAisAok]

Depending on the scale of the parabolic mirror needed...  I just checked Ebay and there are a LOT of parabolic mirrors available.  Most seem to be for solar cookers though, don't know if they'd work though but less than $100 for most of em.

It's a custom plastic piece for this cabinet, there really isn't anything out there that could replicate it properly

[yotsuya]

Yeah, I get it. It's kind of a Catch-22 when you want to try something new, but there is also some value in the cab as it exists. Good luck, I'll be interested to see what you do.

[PL1]

Before you alter your intact, working, and unique cab, please consider trying to build this using non-NOS/non-collectable parts.

If you can do that, you have a really cool new build and an intact, working, and unique cab.

If not, you still have an intact, working, and unique cab that retains the collector value.

If you alter the existing cab, it will lose collector value whether or not you succeed at getting the updated version to work.

Worst case scenario is that you alter the cab, destroy the collector value, fail at getting the updated version to work, anyone who finds out refuses to sell you any cabs (or pass along any leads on cabs) so this never happens again, and the KLOVers use your actions to portray all BYOACers as filthy heathens with no sense of historical preservation who should never be trusted with any real arcade cab let alone a unique example of arcade history like this.

Choose wisely.   


Scott

[PDAisAok]

Maybe I need to clarify the condition of the Holosseum cabinet that I would intend on using for this project since this is apparently hitting a sore spot for fellow collectors/preservationists on here.  I've been collecting/restoring arcades and pinball machines for a little over a decade now.  Here is my page on VAPS

http://www.arcade-museum.com/members/member_detail.php?member_id=385974 

When I first started buying cabinets I remember visiting a very large warehouse in OKC where I saw original cabinets being destroyed as I showed up (I specifically remember a time when I pulled up and saw a ms pacman cabaret cabinet being destroyed with a rubber mallet)  It was painful to see these pieces of history being destroyed.  My Holosseum cabinet is FAR from being in collector's condition.  It was in pretty bad shape when I purchased it several years ago.  The boards did work though but the artwork was in shambles, the white coating on the cabinet was peeling off and missing huge chunks, the wooden blocks on the play field were either gone or roached, the marquee was missing, in other words it was in pretty bad shape to begin with.  I bought it because of its rarity and my affinity for the platform.  Unfortunately, even as a collector and preservationist I'm not sure I see much value in preserving my particular Holosseum.  IDEALLY, I would love to find a spare parabolic mirror and build a cabinet from scratch, this is my PRIMARY objective.  If I cannot find these parts however, the junker will most likely be converted.  But I don't want people to think I'm destroying a collector's piece, it's far from that.  Anything that can be salvaged from the original cabinet (any salvageable artwork, the original control panel, boards, wiring, etc) absolutely will be saved and stored away.  I'm not taking a hammer to anything.  The original cabinet itself will not be altered in any way that would not be someday reversible and absolutely nothing worth preserving will be destroyed.

[PL1]

Thanks for clarifying. 

Good to know that you're already on the right track to save the parts that can be preserved.   


Scott

[DudeRegular]

I think it sounds like a really cool project. It may be a good idea to edit your first post so people see that you are not destroying the thing. Look forward to your progress.

[BadMouth]

It's your cab.  Do what you want with it. 
Awesome koncept! subscribed!

[Xiaou2]

Well,  IMO,   MKII is far better a game than the wretchedly awkward Time Traveler...

  However...  even completing the project.. you would be left with a game that is not the Arcade version,  and you would have to
remove a lot of the graphics from the game, to maintain the 3d depth.   That would lose a lot of the atmosphere that makes that game interesting.  (Such as the Shaolin Monks in the background)

 The "Hologram" effect was very poor at best.   And not really so much "Stereoscopic".    A real volumetric 3d Hologram would allow more than one viewing angle... and to get that... you would need a spinning mirror display.  (which would be infinitely cooler than a cheap parabolic 'hovering' illusion)

 I dont like to squash interesting ideas...   but how about this instead:   Make a true Stereoscopic MKII version.
Get some cheap LCD shutterglasses, and go to town on adding real 3d depth to the graphics.   

 You can go the easy route... such as just making various parts at different depths...

 Or... you could go all out,  and have all the level objects, characters..etc...  all recreated in a 3d modeling program... to get the actual depth for each individual sprites.   

 Meaning... instead of seeing the flat image of a dragon coiled around a pillar, that is placed on the screen at a certain 3d depth...  instead,  the sprite itself is stereo-scopic,  with the dragon actually popping off the pillars surface.. of the stereoscopic 3d rounded pillar.

 Id choose to use the original sprites to do that with, mapping the sprite over a 3d wireframe models depths,  rather than to simply recreate all the graphics using full cgi replacements.   The good thing is, that since the characters are only seen from a fixed perspective, theres much less work needed.

 Blood splatter, bones, and body parts.. could fly into, and right out, of the screen.

 Additional foreground layer objects could be added, for increased depth.

 Id pop some bass shaker transducers on each some of the control panel... and maybe even also under a raised platform that you both stand on...  so that you feel all the impacts of each strike that takes place.

 Possibly made the joystick handle metal.. and add an optional "Electrico-Feedback" .. using a low powered shock sent to the joystick handles when a player is hit.   Maybe even varying the shock intensity, based on the damage level of the hit.
 

 Now that would be a really cool project.    But a hovering, graphically reduced howevering version?   Its not that big of a deal to me.

 From the initial looks of it,  all Sega really did was to take a dome shaped piece of plastic,  and cut it in half.  Placing glass between them, so that people wouldnt reach into the cabinet.

 Also, if memory serves right, there was in fact a holographic fighting game for that cabinet.  Try it out, and get a good idea of the extreme limitations.. before you get too deep:

 

 (make note of the limit of vertical draw height, as the cameramans perspective drops too low)

[PDAisAok]

@xiaou2

The game is called Holosseum, it's the cabinet that I do currently own and considering converting. The viewing angle is not singular as it follows your perspective (to a certain degree before becoming distorted) but it's definitely not limited to one particular angle.  A spinning mirror/actual hologram would definitely be a cool project! And something not even remotely close to the original scope of this project.  I'm well aware of the platform's limitations and listed a few in my original post. The purpose of this project would be to see if it's at all possible to overcome the inherit limitations of the platform and create an enjoyable/playable game. The backgrounds don't necessarily have to be 100% removed (in fact I would love to include as much artwork as possible). But if it was just a straight conversion from the arcade version you would see the screen bounds of the monitor and it would ruin the desired visual effect. Also, if there are limitations to how far the players can go left or right on the screen before becoming too distorted, player bounds would have to be limited and would then mess up certain moves that have the players exiting one side of the screen and entering on the opposite (one of Scorpion's special moves). It's a lot to consider and overcome, but I enjoy a good challenge and I've always wanted to see a good game on this particular hardware platform. Also, the video you posted is showing the perspective from very low and to the side, far outside of the player's perspective. This is why you are seeing it cut off on the top and distorted as much as you are. It's not draw height but rather camera perspective that is cutting off the image

[Xiaou2]

I realize this...  however,  you also have to realize that the graphics have limits to their placements,  due to the curvature of the mirrors... to get the correct depths.

 They also have to include the mirror like reflection, that are underneath all the characters & objects, to make them look like they are floating.
The glass itself, does not do that.

 You can see emulation videos which show how they draw the sprites.

  This is why their fighting game has very little objects in them... and no background.  Not because they didnt want to spend the time to draw them... but because they couldnt place them in there.. due to the limits imposed by the curved surface.   To get around that even by a small percentage... would need an massively unrealistic sized parabolic surface.

 Edit:  If you filled the entire screen with a giant graphic that said Sega...  it should simply be a large flat or slightly distorted bulging one.  You would have no sense of 3d depth.   That is only achieved, by placing sprites on certain areas of the parabola.   If the entire parabola is filled...  you dont get any 3d effect.   And if the objects are put in certain places.. it will probably be distorted visually as well.  Hence...  you cant have those wonderful backgrounds in MKII.  Only the floating characters,  and a spatter of a few very limited objects.

 Mame output vid:
 

 all those reflections, are just the games actually drawn sprites.  mame does not place them there.

[Slippyblade]

PDA, you just need to realize that X2 has a very defined and specific world view and if it doesn't fit that pre-defined view...  it's wrong.  He's got a lot of knowledge, but tends to be pretty poor in relaying that info without extensive side stories about how you are wrong and that it somehow relates to martial arts.

Frankly, I spent WAY to much money on Time Traveler back in the arcade.  I was infatuated with the graphics and didn't know how they were done until just a few years ago.  I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes.

[PDAisAok]

@Xiaou2

Yes, these are all limitations for which I am well aware. Again as I stated in my original post, I'm going to have to do some research/testing to see just how far players can go left or right on the screen before being too distorted from the player's perspective. Yes, the mirrored image of the players is part of the Sprite list (or a mirroring effect within the rom itself), adding this effect is just one of the many design choices made by the devs of Holosseum and Time Traveler to enhance the "hologram" illusion. I have never seen a game with a detailed background for this platform, this is why I will have to experiment with this as well in M.U.G.E.N. to see the limitations that are inherit with the hardware platform and how far I can push it. This is why I can't just use a drop in copy of MKII. It has to be a custom build of the game. Since I am not a seasoned programmer, graphic artist, animator, physicist etc, I cannot reasonably build a 3D, truly holographic version of MKII and will instead rely on a relatively easy to learn software platform (in this case M.U.G.E.N.)

[Xiaou2]

This is quite easy to test...  simply place a simple magazine pitcure... or heck... a printed out mortal kombat picture...  and tape it on the monitor surface.   You might have to place a small light inside there as well.    Stand back, and see the results that are reflected.

[PDAisAok]

@xiaou2

My plan for initial testing is to run MKII on a SNES emulator and disable all the graphic layers aside from player sprites and power bars. I've already tried this on my computer to see if it's possible within the emulator and it is. I just need to test it on the actual cabinet.

[bdn103]

I did some playing with this when I was trying to get some parts for my time traveler. Any game with full screen backgrounds looked fairly poor due to distortion towards the edge of the screen. Best results were games with black backgrounds (Galaga from what i tested) All of the text was inverted (once I flipped the monitor) and you will need to flip the controls (L / R). I believe ATI had something in their drivers to mirror an image....but I honestly don't remember the details.
Be aware something is lost when the "shadow" is missing as far as 3d /depth.  This shadow was part of the image for Holosseum and Time Traveler.

Definitely a fun experiment when I was playing with it. Good luck with your project.

[Xiaou2]

Bdn103, confirmed exactly what I was saying.

 Heres a few ideas / options...

 If you create an original dual monitor cabinet setup... you can display the backgrounds on one display,  and the characters (and maybe the energy / score, on the other.   They would be separated by a half silvered mirror... the same way that Asteroids Deluxe, Discs of Tron..etc.. work.

 The bonus of this method... is that the characters will truly be stereoscopically raised away from the backgrounds.  No glasses needed.


 Another option to try... is a similar method, but using your existing cabinet.   Place a 2nd display showing the backgrounds, on the surface of the glass, behind the projected image plane.    The angles might not work... or may require the monitor to be tilted backwards a little.   The character might also appear too far away as well.    You can easily fix that on the first setup I mentioned... but probably not with the Time Traveler cabinet.


 Other things to consider...  While you could duplicate MKII using the Holoseam mirror and floating empty space look...  what happens when a character is tossed into a pit of spikes?   Or even into the green pool of acid?    It would look really odd without those objects to portray what it happening.   So.. you would have to reduce the game drastically in its depth, look, and functionality...   if you do not use some sort of backdrop.

 Final lesser option...  Instead of those geometric shapes that side on the cabinets glass..   place a piece of 3d created artwork.. such as a picture of your favorite arena...  or a full blown physical 3d model from cut up carboard / foam parts.

 The backdrop will always be the same...  but, it will at least provide some atmosphere.


 Also..  if there are glare issues with a monitor being directly on top of the Holoseam glass... you could also try putting the 2nd monitor behind a 45 degree angled (leaning towards the player)  half silvered mirror.   That may allow you to view the image.. without that image distorting the parabolic reflection image.


 Hopefully you do not take my comments as negative.   Just trying to save you a few problems,  and to give you some options and ideas.

[erikvictory]

I always thought a much smaller version (using a small LCD & correspondingly small parabolic reflector & fresnel lens) of that effect would make a cool novelty accoutrement for the middle-top of a large CPO (working just as a  visual - like the galaga spaceship sprite displaying when playing galaga etc).

Since you have the hardware, plugging in a PC + Mugen should be easy & produce an interesting effect. Were I you I would get anything I could up and running on that to see if the generally wider playing field (both vertically and horizontally) is amenable to Holosseum's dimensions. I have to think there's a reason they made the movement within Holosseum so narrow. You could just run an MK2 rom on a snes emulator and disable the backdrop layers to see if it works as a POC.

@xiaou2

My plan for initial testing is to run MKII on a SNES emulator and disable all the graphic layers aside from player sprites and power bars. I've already tried this on my computer to see if it's possible within the emulator and it is. I just need to test it on the actual cabinet.

Sorry, missed that post!

One additional thing - IIRC the sprites in Holosseum were designed with a mild perspective effect already (I think). So that may also be challenge to compensate for.

[PDAisAok]

@bdn103

Thank you for the input! This is pretty much what I was expecting, I assumed a limited backdrop would most likely be a necessity to really enhance the effect. 

Part of the plan is to add in a mirrored bottom to the sprite list.  I need to confirm that partially transparent pixels can be included in a sprite that has fully opaque pixels, otherwise slightly darker colors would work if they can fit within the color palette.  Another hobby of mine is photography so I've done some similar work in Photoshop before.  This picture was actually several images composited together, I did some work on the reflection in addition to the reflection that was already there from the black glass



@Xiaou2

I still don't think I'm quite following you.  bdn's comments pretty much line up with what I expected from the hardware.  If you read my initial post in this thread I bring up these concerns.  The primary purpose of this project isn't to create a holographic version of MK2.  If that was the primary objective I would definitely NOT be using the Sega Hologram cabinet since it does inherently have many limitations.  The purpose of the project is to create an enjoyable/playable game FOR the Sega Hologram hardware platform.  The game will be based on MK2, not a direct port with graphics removed, so all of the design considerations will be around what works and what doesn't on the hardware platform.  If that means not being able to have an acid bath Fatality then so be it, if I can get it to work out then fantastic!  Any hardware additions that I make will be for minor effects outside the boundaries of the original hardware.  In the initial post I also mention plans for laser cut "Mortal Kombat H" lettering coated in U.V. reactive paint to replace the original geometric blocks. 

EDIT:

Here are a couple examples of the sprites with simulated glass reflection, including a black background layer to show what it would look like in-game

[bdn103]

Looks totally awesome.

[rablack97]

Still not grasping the concept but it looks really cool....good luck with your project.

[PDAisAok]

@Xiaou2

A buddy of mine just sent me this video and it made me think about your suggestions.  It's also making me completely rethink this project.  I might want to go both routes: make a game that will run on the Sega Hologram hardware, but also build a separate project to run similar to these dioramas

[Xiaou2]

Cool.   Too bad however... as it seems they didnt use a half-silvered mirror (teleprompter mirror).

 As such... the animated actors, are very translucent.

 If you see some of the arcade games that use a Half Silvered mirror.. the images are far more opaque... if not totally opaque, hovering over the background pictures and or models.

 Discs of Tron was one of the most elaborate examples:





 This game has artwork that is backlit in the rear.. behind the mirror, mounted about 1 inch from the cabinet door.   The lit artwork shines through the mirror, (much like a movie theater lightbox) ...as a futuristic like city-scape.

 The mirror is at something like 45 degrees...its top edge is closest to the player.

 The arcade monitor is facing upwards towards the sky, in front of the mirror.    The monitors game image is bounced off the mirrors front face, appearing to  float over the city backdrop.

 Also behind the mirror, but in front of the lit backdrop... are two artwork pieces:   

 1)  A piece of clear plexiglass that has a blue screen-printed image.. that is made to look like the Arena's box-end.   

 2) A red lined boarder, that is slanted slightly.   The red lined artwork is UV reactive... and the internal black-light lights it up very well.

 And finally.. there is also red-lined artwork that is on the actual cabinets inner-side panels.   The mirror causes an inverted reflection of the image, if memory serves right... to make it look like the art is on both sides of the glass.

 Its hard to understand, until you see one in person.   The game looks about 2ft deep, when you peer into it... with many layers at different 3d depths.


 Most classic games, like Asteriods Deluxe, Space Invaders Deluxe, Video Pinball... etc,   used only 1 layer placed behind the mirror.  Usually this artwork was 3d in nature, using foam risers.   Its was almost always UV reactive, and lit internally with a white-blacklight fluorescent bulb.

Asteroids Deluxe Artwork



Video Pinball





 Another more modern game,  Golly Ghost,  uses a model backdrop with mechanically moving parts (opening and closing doors)
Though GG appears more translucent than the typical mirrored display.   From what I recall,  there are different levels of selectivity that these mirrors could be made.   As such,  GG was probably made less reflective,  to allow for the ghosts to look more translucent.

Golly Ghost




 Another special Half Silvered mirror trick, was used on certain games..

 In Terminator 2 (uzi gun game)...  the half silvered mirror was painted fully opaque,  Except for 2 areas.   These areas were painted to look like star shaped explosions.   A Pinball Flasher Bulb was placed behind these areas.   When a player was hit... the flasher bulb wound light up brightly on their side of the screen... and the explosion image would appear as a translucent glowing hovering image, made of colored light... sort of holographic.

T2 with Working Flashers

(looks far better in person,  and when the mirror,   front and back,  is actually cleaned)

 Another example of this is the Mechanical gun game by Kasco,  called  "Ninja Gun".

 In Ninja Gun,  the artwork is a bunch of 3d cutouts stapled together, to form an ancient village / city.   The artwork is placed Vertically in the bottom of the cabinet, and is about 3 feet long.    There are mechanical Ninjas that run inside of that artwork field.. on chain drives, and crank pop-ups.   The ninjas are made to look like they are climbing the walls,  popping up from rooftops,  and running past open doorways.

 The Ninjas are cardboard cutouts, and printed with UV reactive green, or orange.  They glow brightly in the blacklight thats placed inside the cabinet.. shining over the artwork.

 There is a half-silvered mirror pointed towards the player,  to reflect the playfield on the front face of the mirror.
 But the really interesting thing.. is behind the mirror...   Where they reverse screen printed about 20 different ninja images..

 Theres a set of like 10 Ninjas that are orange... that are set to animate across the mirror,  as if it was hanging on a high-wire,  crossing it hand over hand.   

 The other 10 Ninjas are Yellow.. and appear to be doing backflips on the ground from right to left.

 The Ninjas light up, one at a time in sequence... providing the animated look and movement.

 Unlike the cardboard cutout Ninjas... these Ninjas are made of pure light... and are semi-translucent... holographic looking nature.
The lighted glow makes them almost like Ghosts / Supernatural... which makes the look of them very unique and interesting.

 The screened Ninjas were actually just black and white... and then they placed a translucent orange / yellow  piece of plexiglass  behind them.   When the lights lit up... they passed through the colored plexi,   then filtered through the black/white mask...  and then finally though the glass...  and appeared to hover in different places, over the playfield.

Ninja Gun




 =====

 DIY Stereoscopic Display





This shows the potential for what I described earlier...  to display a games backdrop in the rear monitor.. and the gameplay on the vertically mounted mirror.

[PDAisAok]

@xiaou2

I really like the idea of having a real physical diorama style backdrop behind the video of the players.  I think that tangibility from physical stages mixed with a properly done half-silvered screen (if I can find a quality, reasonably priced one) for the player sprites would be a pretty awesome experience.  I think I have an idea of how I would want to design the system that would allow for multiple stages (diorama backgrounds for each one).  They would have to be on a vertical carousel style conveyer in a tight configuration similar to this  http://tffchallenge-production.s3.amazonaws.com/media/teams/009d7852-79b5-11e4-a661-12313f07090f.square.JPG.  Each stage would have a micro-controller to control lights, motors etc so they would not just be static backgrounds.  I think an easy way to set this up would be for each stage box to have optical switches, one for the stage rotation mechanism so it knows when to stop (there could be a row of optical sensors for the 'home position' and each stage would have the IR sender at the corresponding position), and another for the micro-controller on each stage so it knows when to turn on/off all lights/motors.  What do you think? I think a 21:9 ultrawide monitor could work out for this setup, that way there wouldn't have to be any screen scrolling, the stages would have to be somewhat cropped from the original layouts but I think even at this ratio it's plenty of room to move around



Also, I don't think I have ever played a T2 with working flashers! I wasn't even aware that a part of that system

[Slippyblade]

Just to chime in.  That Asteroids backdrop...  LOVE it.  I'd never seen a real one till Zapcon a couple years back.  I'd played Asteroid before, but never seen the proper background.  It seriously adds a LOT to the game.  I enjoyed playing it, which was kind of a new thing.

[Xiaou2]

I think its a pretty cool idea.

 I just shudder at how much work it would take to make great looking, highly detailed, dioramas.  Then again, Im not a model guy.

 I think the aspect you chose is a good one.   Allowing plenty of movement range.  Small enough to build the models in a relatively decent amount of time.   And not so wide..  that you have to pan your eyes too much.

 At that size.. Id guess you would want to place the display about 2.5  to  3 feet away from the players head.   That should give decent ability to see the whole field easily...  and might make any minor model defects.. nearly invisible.

 Im more of a mechanical guy, than an electronics guy... but your ideas seem fairly sound to me.   However, You might be able to get away with mechanical switching, using rolling-microswitches on each unit.   When the switch rolls over the cabinets raised activation bar.. the switch is tripped, and this switch can act as the on/off for the entire unit.

 I would not know how to make the machine know which direction it had to rotate,  to get to the proper stage however.

 As for the mechanical device..  there are a lot of pitfalls you have to be careful about,  but its very possible to make that design.
Another possible assembly idea.. is to make a large circular or semi-circle drum.

 Either way, make sure you get very good dimension, before you start going build-crazy.   Make a very crude cardboard level mockup.  See how deep you want to make it.. and how the ending dimension end up..  and that should give you an idea of what kind of cabinet size you will end up with... and what kind of options you have available.

 Also remember.. unless you are using the same half silvered mirror tricks on the backdrops themselves... then you are not going to have any animation in them.  (and not sure if there would be any issues with multiple mirrors in a single unit.  May have to use progressively different mirror reflectivity percents on different depths) 

 *UNLESS..  you are using puppetry effects..  such as motorized people, and moving model effects.

 You might also consider a display in the furthest rear (behind the display units rear) .. merely for other possible animated or static background effects.

 - Use of fiber optics for certain small lighting
 - Flasher bulbs in various hidden places for lightning strike effects
 - Black-light +  UV reflective painted backdrops
 - Rising and falling models layers.. such as simulates water waves.
 - Possible bubbling effects, if the models are not inverted (and heating element is warmed up enough)
 - Possible use other fluid-toys,  such as wax lamps,  and bubble oil timers.
 - Sealed clear boxes..  could be filled will stuff like sand, or small particulates... for simulation of weather effect.. such as blowing snow. Use a few small variable speed blowers.. to move the particulates around.
 - Possible smoke machine effects... using a train-set smoke liquid, and small lamps / heating elements...
 - or..  Using an Ultrasonic humidifier device.. create water mist fog effects.   Though, the artwork must be waterproofed well...  and water stocking is critical to the thing not failing.  (auto water sensor level with assembly shut-off)

- Some effects, such as fog mist, flashing lights, and fan blowers..  could be placed in a way that directly effect the players... such as fog mist falling down from under the marquee area.. in front of the monitor glass.

 - By placing some hanging /  telescopic bars on top of the machine..  one could make a set of hanging speakers,  for surround sound effects.
 - Additionally, placing speakers in the rear of the cabinet.. shooting towards the wall  or  out of the left and right sides of the cabinet... and possibly an upwards facing speaker for overhead effects..  as well as lower foot level speaker for ground effects)

  Super Force feedback idea:

 While transducer vibration is great..  real violent motorized action is far more powerful and immersive.   Making each players control panel as separate,  one could place crank-arm motors that drive the control panels to move in and out.. by about a  1/2 inch.   Basically, the same as how Segas  OutRun steering wheel works.      The motor would be speed-controlled.. so that large hits would spin faster.. while small hits, use a much slower speed, with shorter duration.

 This could be done to the entire CP..  or maybe an even better option,  to merely the joystick assemblies!
  As sliding the stick, is probably a much more effective way to mess up a player a bit.   Where as someone might easily deal with the control panel shift.. by keeping very relaxed, and flowing with its motion.

 Game Visuals:

 And finally..  I have to say that while MK2 has its charm..  MK 1  has a much better look.   Those digitized characters look more realistic.. than MK2's plastic-looking sprites.   Also, I love MK3s additional combos and the run button.   Its a much faster game, and the run aspect greatly increases the depth of the gameplay... as things are far more unexpected, and thus harder to counter.   It would be great if the game allowed for all the versions characters, and selectable gameplay versions.  Much like an MK Ultimate / Trilogy.

 Look wise.. It almost makes you want to get some good local talent together..  to re-pose on green screens,  matching the animations of the characters.. for High-Def photo-realistic re-captures.   Rather than re-shoot new moves completely..  making it hard to match the games original smooth flow and detection..  you could just match each pose frame for frame.. using a translucent overlay.  (would need some flexible martial artists, with a leg-suspending pulley..  for multiple pose shots without movement issues)

 Take a few different shots of each frame,  using different lighting.   Mirror the lighting on each side without them moving..  and also use different colored lights,  to match each environments lighting.   Some of which may require use of multiple lights from different directions, and each having different colors.

 Thats probably going way too far..  but it would be an awesome project,  IMO.  =)

[gojetsgo]

Not much to add except that this is an awesome idea - I'm actually surprised there were no holographic fighting games back in the day.  Anyway, I can't wait to see what you come up with.  Good luck!

Oh, and I LOVED Golly Ghost back in the day.  Totally forgot about that game. Thanks for reminding me of it, Xiaou2.

[Darien]

Deja Vu.   So, This is a thing I just read.... and I'm pretty excited for one version of. (The one that uses a holosseum cabinet)  It's a little early for me so excuse me if I missed anything in this thread

I too played Time Traveler a couple times as kid only for people to NEVER know what I was talking about.  I spent years after I started collecting looking for one.  I even mocked up a black cabinet with red stripes using the picture from the manual (I was under the illusion at the time I could just "holo" anything with a black bg).  Eventually I overpaid for a fairly junkie Holosseum in the process.  Bought some flat metal to make a Street Fighter panel and tried some Mame tests (galaga) ... but I ended up just leaving it alone.

 Then, I got lucky at an auction and paid next to nothing for a complete time traveler in pretty good condition.  Now I own both and I'll probably carry them with me forever.  That being said... I LIKE Time Traveler. It's a unique piece. It's also the only Laser Disc game I own because I'm not the biggest fan of the format. (gasp!)

Holosseum is barely playable. It's just.... UGH. I mean my best character in that game is someone who never unfolds his arms... It's a two button fighter with sanwa buttons and happs sticks stock. It feels like they made it just to cover up the lousy LDs they put in Time Traveler. They were running around looking for parts to make a 2nd game.

"Hey these laser discs keep failing and these cabinets aren't moving. Quick! Make a System 24 fighting game and get me all the Aero City candy cabinet panels you can find... Americans won't play with balltops so someone make brackets for these Happs!"

So aside from the super incredible ideas in this thread Like diorama stages, laser cut speaker panels, and popup heads. I'm VERY interested in a limited scaled MUGEN for the format  If you work out a format that  just displays/limits correctly I'd be thrilled to help/learn the system too. I wouldn't be doing a complete conversion like yours I would just be adding new life to a game NO ONE plays in that room.  People keep trying TT since it's live action and has a theme. It's nice to have both but there's no replays on holosseum and all my friends have seen it by now.  Maybe if I got a playable game in there I'd feel like fixing all that broken laminate too.

 

  I don't know what state your holosseum is in beyond "crappy" (mine is too) but if you have the control panel section complete you can just replace the metal aero city panel with a flat piece of metal.  There's enough room for a 6 or in MK II 5 button panel They made SF panels for the Sega Aero City  (See attached)  So it could be pretty easy to make a panel swap that has the X shape (MKII was pre "Run")

I'll certainly keep checking up on this and if you need a second set of eyes from someone with both cabinets, let me know