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Author Topic: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK  (Read 16270 times)

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PL1

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Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« on: September 27, 2013, 11:27:03 am »
As the unclean abomination of High Score Competition #124 Lode Runner >:D (I keed, I keed :duckhunt) draws to a close, here's a palate cleansing build for those of us who prefer playing the best version of this game the way it was designed to be played -- on an Apple with a Kraft Premium analog joystick . . . or on M.E.S.S. with an updated version of the stick.   ;D



I had been looking since early July for a similar stick or an inexpensive analog stick controller to use like a UHID Nano or A-Pac from Ultimarc -- the only two easy options I found.

Last month, Degenatrons mentioned that,
I've also been testing with a KADE+ prototype (to be announced soon) which supports most of the original console controllers so have been using nes, snes, n64, gamecube, saturn, mastersystem, megadrive, tg16, atari 2600, psx controllers with Android.

Noticing that some of the controllers on that list have analog controls, I asked Jon if the analog controls were supported and offered to help with some beta testing.  ;D

Unlike the current KADE and the older AVR encoder, the KADE+ prototype is based on the ATMega32U4 chip which has built in Analog-to-Digital conversion circuitry.

The nice thing about the ATMega32U4 is that it is supposed to be compatible with all the current KADE firmwares -- for now, we have to recompile them and load them using FLIP (not as hard as it sounds :)) until ATMega32U4 support is built into KADE Loader.

After just a few days of Degenatrons writing code for me to compile and load using FLIP (told you it wasn't that hard to do ;D) we had tested the basic A/D conversion and had a working hex file.

Degenatrons has given me permission to release a working copy of the hex file for anyone who wants to build an analog stick.   :notworthy:   :notworthy:

***2-Axis HEX File Download Link.***
***4-Axis HEX File Download Link.***

Directions for loading these firmwares on the board using FLIP are here.

The source code won't be released until the KADE+ is released, however if someone needs a version compiled for a chip other than the ATMega32U4 let me know and I will recompile/post a hex file for that chip, but no promises on whether it will work and sorting out the correct pins is up to you.  :dunno

The board that I'm using is the MattairTech MT-DB-U4.

NOTE: If you order this board, select the 16 MHz clock and ATMEL DFU (FLIP) bootloader options.

There is also an option for pin headers, but you will need to solder those yourself.


In addition to being one of the boards used in development of KADE+, it's the smallest board with mounting holes.  :woot

In addition to the board, you'll need a joystick like this or this or this or this or this . . .


. . . a project box like this . . .


. . . a DPDT switch like this . . .


. . . and a pair of Goldleaf buttons from Ultimarc or Arcadeemulator.net. (Divemaster127)


With all the pieces in place, let the build begin.

First, a template that fits into the recessed area on the project box.



The DPDT switch will be mounted on the back face of the project box.

Not sure if I'll go with red or black Goldleaf buttons so I test-fitted one of each along with the stick.









All joystick wires and button grounds soldered and tested good.



Found out later that the buttons and analog need separate grounds -- had to clip off the 0.110" daisy chain.  :lol

Next, I tried to polish out the squiggle next to the red button.

:cry: High speed on Dremel + my derpy "I'll learn how to polish plastic on the work piece" decision = several even worse marks.   :cry:

Time for Plan B -- woodgrain vinyl for a bit of Atari 2600 vibe. :lol


The thin gap in the lower right corner is almost impossible to see in normal lighting.

By this time, the DPDT switches arrived, so it's time to make some more sawdu. . . umm . . . plastic shavings.

The reason this stick will have a DPDT switch is that Apple ][ games like Lode Runner were written for the Kraft Premium Joystick.



The red button is button 1 and the black one is button 2.

In Lode Runner, the red button drills on your right and black drills on your left -- the opposite of standard arcade button order.  :dizzy:

The DPDT switch changes which button is connected to which encoder input.



In the up position, Button A connects to Input 1 and Button B connects to Input 2.

Throw the switch and they change places.  :D

The first step is to mark where to mount the switch.

Blue painters tape makes it easier to see the boundaries of the 0.7" x 0.5" mount hole.



The mount hole outline is horizontally centered between the buttons and vertically centered on the upper back face of the case.

After chain drilling with a very small bit near the perimeter, I used an X-Acto knife to carefully shave the plastic down to the outline on the tape.



Protip: Use a tiny metal ruler like this to check if sides are straight/square as you shave them.


Final fitting required a little bit longer hole than advertised, but it worked out perfectly with the switch bezel barely covering the slight overshave on the sides. (I'll install the switch after soldering all the wires to it)



The hole is only .005 off-center vertically -- how the #&@% did I pull that one off?   :o

Still left to do:
- Get a grommet for the USB cable and maybe a 10k resistor (board spec sheet says it may be needed to prevent the board from randomly going into programming mode  :dunno)
- Cut the entry for the grommet
- Cut/solder the wires
- Final assembly


Scott
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 04:14:35 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2013, 11:29:19 am »
Like the woodgrain, Scott!  :cheers:
***Build what you dig, bro. Build what you dig.***

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2013, 11:40:16 am »
Like the woodgrain, Scott!  :cheers:

Thanks, glad the lemon -- plastic polishing attempt -- turned into this bit of lemonade and only took two tries to get the vinyl right.


Scott
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 11:59:14 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2013, 11:45:01 am »
I  had a joystick like that for my Tandy.  I used it as a thumbstick and the ridges on the edges of the joystick scraped my thumb raw.
My thumb still hurts when I think about it.  Luckily it looks like your new one is smooth.

Not enough analog projects on here IMO.
 :cheers:

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2013, 11:55:53 am »
I  had a joystick like that for my Tandy.  I used it as a thumbstick and the ridges on the edges of the joystick scraped my thumb raw.
My thumb still hurts when I think about it.  Luckily it looks like your new one is smooth.

Not enough analog projects on here IMO.
 :cheers:

Yes, the top is very smooth, unlike the original.   ;D

One of the things I've asked Jon to include in the firmware (eventually) is 4 analog axes, enough for a 270 degree steering wheel, gas pedal, brake pedal, and clutch pedal or twin sticks for T-Mek and Cybersled.

In addition, there are enough pins for 12 buttons, a POV hat-switch, and more.


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2013, 04:44:38 am »
I  had a joystick like that for my Tandy.  I used it as a thumbstick and the ridges on the edges of the joystick scraped my thumb raw.
My thumb still hurts when I think about it.  Luckily it looks like your new one is smooth.

Not enough analog projects on here IMO.
 :cheers:

Yes, the top is very smooth, unlike the original.   ;D

One of the things I've asked Jon to include in the firmware (eventually) is 4 analog axes, enough for a 270 degree steering wheel, gas pedal, brake pedal, and clutch pedal or twin sticks for T-Mek and Cybersled.

In addition, there are enough pins for 12 buttons, a POV hat-switch, and more.


Scott

Glad that I could help with this one Scott and thanks for going into your usual level of detail  :applaud:.

I will take a look at making an avr firmware with 4 analog axes for the Mattairtech board and also for one of those cheap leonardo clones (ordered from ebay) when it arrives.
If the avr has enough analog pins then we should be able to cater for up to 8 axes.



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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2013, 07:56:02 am »
Thanks again, Jon.   :cheers:

You did all the hard work with the coding.   :notworthy:


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2013, 10:16:07 pm »
Wired the DPDT switch according to the earlier diagram.





To keep the mounting screw head from shorting traces on the board, I made a plastic washer by drilling a hole in a piece of plastic then hole-punching it out. (pic shows after drilling but before punching)



Now that the components are ready to assemble, this is where the wires need to be attached.



The Pullup resistor wire can attach to the jumper pin closest to the reset button like below or you can solder it to input "E2/B" -- they are electrically the same point.

EDIT: For a pic of the pullup resistor connected to "E2/B", see step 3 of the SW Yoke interface tutorial here. This is the recommended method.

And here is the fully wired stick.



The 10k ohm, 1/8 watt pullup resistor is under the heat shrink on the red wire connected to the VCC pin with a wire soldered to the center bar of a shorting jumper.



The jumper from VCC can be unplugged and the two pins can be shorted to put the board into programming mode, just be sure to *properly* reconnect the pullup resistor wire after programming the board.

Found out after finishing the build that if you solder the pullup resistor wire to input "E2/B", you can just short the pins to put the board into programming mode -- No need to desolder/disconnect the pullup resistor wire + you can't mess up which pin the pullup resistor goes to after programming the board.   ;D



After bending the tails on the QDs connected to the Goldleafs for clearance, it's ready to assemble.

Closeup of the switch and grommet.



Finished build.











Play tested using MESS Apple //e
- Lode Runner
- Sabotage
- Castle Wolfenstein
- Choplifter

Everything works just like back in the day.   :woot   ;D


Scott
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 08:19:59 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2013, 12:56:45 am »
I LOVE the woodgrain!
Super tight work Scott and Jon.

I just picked up a nice Kraft KC3 from goodwill and happen to have a couple of the MattairTech boards kicking around.  Making one of these just got added to my long project list.

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2013, 09:40:39 am »
Thanks, Kevin.   :cheers:

Since the Kraft KC3 has a topfire button in addition to the two regular buttons, here is the full active pinout for the hex file in OP.

The only pins not active are the two "Analog Wiper ?" inputs which would make this a 4-axis setup like Jon mentioned earlier -- we didn't get that far in the coding/testing.




Scott

EDIT: Forgot to mention it earlier, but this should also work with a Star Wars yoke if you want a USB adapter without taking your chances doing business with RAM SCAM Controls.

I can test the yoke setup if anyone is interested.

Also, TwistyWrist has the pins and connectors so you don't have to hack up the original SW yoke harness.   ;D
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 10:11:01 am by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2013, 11:18:16 am »
Looks neat!  Thanks for posting the finished pics.

The only pins not active are the two "Analog Wiper ?" inputs which would make this a 4-axis setup like Jon mentioned earlier -- we didn't get that far in the coding/testing.

I've extended the firmware to provide 4-axis with the additional wipers connected to AVR pins F4 and F5 (as suggested in your above pic) and the updated HEX file is attached to this post.

Forgot to mention it earlier, but this should also work with a Star Wars yoke if you want a USB adapter without taking your chances doing business with RAM SCAM Controls.

I can test the yoke setup if anyone is interested.

 :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2013, 02:18:58 pm »
Looks amazing!  :cheers:

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2013, 02:42:38 pm »
Thanks, Emphatic.   :cheers:

Now that Jon has posted the new 4-axis hex file, it's time to solder headers on a second 32U4 board so I can test that, too.   ;D


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2013, 07:24:21 pm »
Scott, great job on this project.  Also, thanks for your diligent documentation of each of your steps, this is a valuable gift to the community.

Cheers!
 :cheers:

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2013, 08:09:53 pm »
Thanks, A1pharm.

Just trying to contribute something useful to this wonderful community like so many others have.   :cheers: 


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2013, 05:56:40 am »
Important update concerning the pullup resistor connection point:

Got an e-mail from Justin Mattair  :notworthy: :notworthy: with a few important pieces of info: (re-formatted slightly)
Quote
Q:
It doesn't come up as a gamepad, with or without a 10k pullup resistor from VCC to the HWB like on the KADESTICK below. (BTW KADESTICK didn’t seem to care if the resistor was connected as shown or not – didn’t revert to programming mode when plugged in numerous times during testing)
A:
When using the Atmel DFU, an external pullup resistor should always be used, even if it doesn't seem to matter. If plugging in shortly after unplugging, residual charge will be present on the floating HWB pin. The (LV)TTL compatible inputs will tend to be read as high when the input is floating, so it may seem that the resistor is not needed. The probability of reading the pin as low (jumper installed) will increase if the board sits for a while before plugging back in. Sooner or later, the pin will be read as low even with the jumper removed.
-----------
You will also want to verify that the 10K pullup is connected to the HWB pin.
It must be connected to the side of the jumper that connects to the header pin (marked E2/B).
This is the side of the jumper closest to the reset button.
It looks like you have it connected to the other pin instead.
Once I read that last part and moved the pullup resistor to the correct pin, the 2nd board would FINALLY load and retain the hex properly instead of reverting to programming mode.   ;D

I found the reason for the confusion on which pin connected to the pullup resistor -- "HWB" is silkscreened in different locations for the 2011 and 2012 versions.

2011 version -- HWB marked on the pushbutton side of the jumper and the pushbutton is clearly marked Reset.


2012 version -- HWB marked on the other side of the jumper, Reset marking on the pushbutton side of the jumper is for the pushbutton, not the jumper pin. (confirmed on schematic)


I'll update the build pics and text soon to indicate the correct pin.  Done.

Hope my earlier error didn't cause any frustration for anyone trying to program a board.


Scott
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 07:17:26 am by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2013, 07:16:38 am »
I hadn't noticed a difference in the the board markings either Scott - until it was pointed out :-[

I'm chuffed that it's sorted now and you've managed to program my hex to the 2012 board  :cheers:
So let us know how you get on with the 4 axis setup.

I was thinking to add another button to make this firmware fully compatible with PS3.  Button 13 would connect to pin C6 or C7 on the AVR.  Analog input to PS3 could be useful for some.  I could also adapt for Xbox and the CoinOPS folks.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 08:15:59 am by degenatrons »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2013, 07:53:16 am »
I hadn't noticed a difference in the the board markings either Scott - until it was pointed out :-[

Didn't notice it either until 30 minutes into drafting an e-mail to Justin that included suggestions for clarifying the wording on the board's webpage that says "REQUIRES AN EXTERNAL PULLUP RESISTOR for the HWB pin."  D'oh!  :lol

Will test the 4-axis hex while the KADESTICK is still open.

After that it'll be time to test the second board with a SW yoke.  :cheers:


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2013, 04:21:53 pm »
After that it'll be time to test the second board with a SW yoke.  :cheers:

Now you're talking  :cheers:

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2013, 03:35:32 am »
Latest beta testing results:

The 4-axis firmware appears to be working fine with a joystick and a Star Wars yoke.  ;D

It should work great for a dual analog joystick setup like Cybersled or T-Mek.

The SW yoke works great with the 2-axis firmware.  :woot
(Anybody want to buy my never-installed RAM Controls USB adapter?  SOLD)

Tried using just the SW yoke with the 4-axis firmware and noticed an obvious (in retrospect) but highly problematic side effect with the unused "Z-" and "Z Ro-" axes -- no wiper wire connected to the input = no voltage applied = they aren't centered.

The un-centered Z-axis (a.k.a. mouse scroll wheel) causes the MAMEUIFX menu (and probably many others) to constantly scroll.  :angry:  :dizzy:  :lol

Anyone using an analog pedal, Warlords dials, Lunar Lander thruster, etc. with the Z-axis will have problems for the same reason.

The obvious answer for a single joystick/SW yoke setup is to use the 2-axis firmware, but that still leaves the problem for anyone needing more than two axes and a non-centering Z-axis.

I suggested a possible fix to Jon -- we'll let you know how things turns out.


Scott

EDIT: Forgot to include this pinout for the SW Yoke.



Twistywrist has the molex connector and pins required to connect to the yoke harness without hacking it apart -- please don't maim for MAME.   ;D
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 07:29:04 am by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2013, 05:58:10 pm »
Not my thing, PL1, but, as usual, your beautiful work & attention to details & documentation is a gift to this community.  :applaud:
"Godzilla is a warning. A warning to each and every one of us. When mankind falls into conflict with nature, monsters are born."
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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 06:27:51 pm »
Thank you, sir.

If nothing else, an AVR and the 2-axis hex file can be a replacement if your SW yoke dual strike hack ever bites the dust.  ;D


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2013, 10:47:54 am »
...okay, I'll admit it, I'm still going ahead with the dual strike, but I am regretting it a little. For 1 thing, unless I've misunderstood, the thing isn't fully compatible with Windows 7 without some 3rd party software (when I made that decision way back when, I was planning to use Windows 98 so I could easily use my Madcatz Panther XL controller (still the best pc game controller ever) & easily play some old DOS games).

For another, I'd like to have 2 positional guns, but now that I fried my other dual strike board, I've got a decision to make.

...Maybe I should bite the bullet & invest in a different analog interface... :dunno
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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2013, 04:35:44 pm »

Whoa... I am having serious nostalgia overload right now. I worked all summer to buy one of these for my Apple IIe. I loved this thing and it was expensive! Great build. Thanks for the stroll down memory lane.  :applaud:

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2014, 07:18:02 am »
Lcmgadgets pointed out in another thread that the directions for loading the hex file (firmware) onto the board were not clearly spelled out in this thread.

The following directions are an overview of how to use FLIP to program a DFU Bootloader board -- see pg. 19-21 of the MT-DB-U4 User Guide for more details.

    Install the FLIP software
FLIP is a utility used to load firmware into the ATmega32U4.  It also includes the ATmega32U4 driver for the MT-DB-U4 board.

FLIP needs Java Runtime Environment (JRE) -- download the version that includes JRE if you're not sure that it is already installed on your system.

Download FLIP 3.4.7 or higher from http://www.atmel.com/tools/FLIP.aspx and install it before you connect the MT-DB-U4 board to your computer.

    Install the ATmega32U4 driver for the MT-DB-U4 board
After FLIP is installed, the ATmega32U4 driver for the MT-DB-U4 board can be installed.

Connect the MT-DB-U4 board via a USB cable.

Windows will then prompt you for the ATmega32U4 driver -- point it to the "..\Program Files\Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\usb\" directory to install the driver.

Once the driver is loaded, the device will appear as an ATmega32U4 device under Atmel USB Devices in the device manager.

    Use FLIP to program the board
1. Install the HWB jumper (or disconnect the pullup resistor) and connect the board via a USB cable (or press reset if already connected) to enter the DFU bootloader.



2. Launch the FLIP utility.

3. Click on the the chip icon (red outline, upper left) and select the Atmega32U4.

4. Click on the USB icon (green outline, next to the chip icon), select USB and connect.  The screen should now show info about the board.

** NOTE: If you get a "AtLibUsbDfu.dll not found message" error message from Flip when you click on the USB icon, the problem is a a wrong/missing board driver.
- Close Flip.
- Disconnect/reconnect/reset board as needed to get Windows to reload the driver.
- Point the driver install wizard to the "..\Program Files\Atmel\Flip 3.4.7\usb\" folder.
- Once the driver is installed, go back to step 1.

5. Click on the File menu, and open the desired hex file.  More info will appear about the hex file. (orange outline, center)

6. Ensure all four boxes under Operations Flow are checked. (blue outline, left) Erase must be checked, since the firmware can't be loaded unless the flash is erased first.

7. Click on the Run button (yellow outline, lower left) to load the firmware.



8. "Verify PASS" (lower left) shows that the firmware loaded successfully.



9. Unplug the board and remove the HWB jumper/ensure the pullup resistor is connected so you don't go back into programming mode when you plug it back in.

10.  The KADESTICK interface is ready to use as a USB HID Joystick.


Scott
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 10:47:29 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2014, 02:54:06 am »
Here are the SW Yoke to KADESTICK pinouts.

 

Yoke Pin # - KADESTICK Pin Label
  1  - Button 1
  2  - Button 2
  3  - Button 3
  4  - Button 4
  5  - Analog Wiper 1
  6  - Analog Wiper 2
  9  - 5v for Analog (or the Avcc pin on the left side should also work :dunno -- both provide 5v IIRC)
 10 - Ground (Analog)
 11 - Ground (Buttons)
 12 - Ground (Lower left corner of board -- not labeled/needed for original KADESTICK, but this pin should work fine for the SW yoke frame ground.)


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2014, 04:26:05 pm »
Scott, I'm trying to upload the kadestick firmware and am running into an issue with it being recognized by windows after I'm all done. 

Last time I did this for "M" the stick got delivered all loaded up so this is my first time working with this unit - although I've loaded the minimus AVRs several times with no issues. 

Ran a wire from VCC to ESB with the 10k ohm resistor.  After installing the latest FLIP I put the jumper on both pins and windows was able to find the driver with a bit of help.  Went into FLIP found the board and ran Degenatron's hex that was posted in this thread.  Flip said check was okay and I unplugged the board, moved the jumper to just one pin for safe keeping, and now windows won't see the thing.  Windows makes the notification that I've got a device in but nothing populates and I can't find it in the device manager.  Last time I did this it showed up as a joystick no issues. 

Any recommendations?  I've reloaded but to no avail.  Is my wiring right?

Pics:

How the board looks after I load the hex and am ready to start using it as a uhid


How the board looks when I'm loading it

Anything glaring stand out that I'm doing wrong?  I hope so - that'd make it easy ;)

Oh, and your link to avrfreaks for a driver dl seems to require a password on my end fyi

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2014, 05:12:02 pm »
Hey,
Is that 10k resistor?  difficult to see in your pics.  The bands should be brown/black/orange.
You can temporary disconnect wire from VCC to ECB while you test programming and usage.  Wire is recommended to ensure device doesn't jump back into program mode.

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2014, 05:31:04 pm »
Hey,
Is that 10k resistor?  difficult to see in your pics.  The bands should be brown/black/orange.
You can temporary disconnect wire from VCC to ECB while you test programming and usage.  Wire is recommended to ensure device doesn't jump back into program mode.

It is a 10k yes - disconnected the wire between VCC and E2B - moved jumper to both pins, went into flash and reloaded kadestick hex, removed device from USB, moved jumper to one pin, plugged in device and still no dice.  Not recognized. 

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2014, 06:13:22 pm »
You've got the right pins and looks like the right resistor.

I highly doubt this, but did you accidently end up with a solder bridge on the underside of your board or are you applying power while it's on a conductive surface?

My spare 32U4 AVR shows up with no signed drivers required on the new Win7 machine here -- haven't even loaded FLIP on the new machine.  Are the drivers in the Program Files/Atmel/Flip 3.4.2/usb directory not working?  Is your system asking for signed drivers?   :dunno

After you load the firmware and before you unplug the AVR or remove the the jumper, try this:
  * Click on "Start Application" in the lower right corner of FLIP
  * Start - Devices and Printers

If FLIP is properly loading the firmware, you should see the KADE icon.  If not, try removing the jumper first.

Are you sure you followed the steps on pages 17-19 of the user guide or the steps in reply #24 above exactly as written?

You can't have FLIP already open when you plug in the AVR, etc, etc.


Scott
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 06:22:31 pm by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2014, 06:22:19 pm »
And I'm magically working.  No idea what the issue is - although I'm still not seeing the Kade in the icon bar like I should.  I plugged the board into my netbook and it recognized, plugged it back in my desktop and that it was in the device manager.  Good enough for me I guess.  Something is still fishy here but at least I can test out everything I did earlier this afternoon. 

I'll try and figure out what changed. 

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2014, 06:29:56 pm »
Glad to hear it's working now.

The Gremlins must have heard that Jon and I were on the case and split.  :laugh2:


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2014, 06:36:03 pm »
Glad to hear it's working now.

The Gremlins must have heard that Jon and I were on the case and split.  :laugh2:


Scott

Gotta be, I've been pulling hair for two hours and then presto chango everything is copacetic. 

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2014, 10:30:31 pm »
PL1, how durable is the project box you used for the joystick? I'm looking to build an arcade stick for my Atari 7800 and this looks to be a great option, since my woodworking skills are rather lacking.

Thanks!

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2014, 02:48:34 am »
Welcome aboard, Bikeguychicago.

It's a hard plastic project box.   :dunno

If you press rather firmly on the top or bottom face with your thumbs, it will flex some.

I wouldn't put it in a commercial arcade setting, but as long as you aren't throwing your weight into it, it should be plenty strong.

The only two things that I'd change on this build are these:

  1. Solder wires to the button terminals instead of using QDs -- had to bend the QDs to keep the buttons from binding a bit when the QDs pressed against the back panel.

  2. Put the buttons on the left and the analog stick on the right for better fine muscle control over the stick (assuming you're right-handed) -- I've been seriously considering building a second one in this configuration.

Not sure if you will want to swap the buttons and stick for a digital (switch-based) 7800 controller, though.


Scott
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 04:27:05 am by PL1 »

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2014, 09:09:26 pm »
Quick question Scott.  Just wondering if you have tried playing Karateka with the joystick.

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2014, 12:18:35 am »
Quick question Scott.  Just wondering if you have tried playing Karateka with the joystick.
Never played the game on the original hardware, but several versions of it seem to work OK with the KADESTICK in both the Apple //e and Apple //c emulators in MESSUI 0.152.   ;D

If/when I build another, one more thing that I might change (in addition to the things I mentioned earlier) is possibly using Seimitsu PS-14-DN 24mm buttons.


Scott

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2014, 03:16:37 pm »

Just finished reading this.  It's right about the edge of my skillset but I think I can make this happen for my SW project.  I do have one question, though.  It's not immediately clear from the thread what the runtime environment has to be here.  I'm probably going to use vectormame so I am likely going to be limited to an older version of windows or maybe even DOS itself. 

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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2014, 03:21:33 pm »
Whatever you end up connecting it to will need to understand USB. 

If programming KADE+ is anything like programming the KADE, you just do that on computer A and then plug it into computer B or in my experience, an xbox.


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Re: Analog Apple ][ KADESTICK
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2014, 03:35:55 pm »
Whatever you end up connecting it to will need to understand USB. 


Yeah, that much is a given, and FreeDOS has USB drivers.  But if it's dependent on any windows libraries at runtime that wouldn't work.