The Walking Dead - Season 3

[Howard_Casto]

I think both of you are forgetting that he murdered Otis and murdered the kid that they kidnapped.  Regardless of the reasons he used to justify either, there was no legitimate reason to do either.  A murderer is a villain, plain and simple. 

This is the same reason I was calling the Walking Dead panel stupid.... the Governor was a villain from day one, because he killed those military guys for no reason.  If you are willing to kill once then you are willing to do it again.  That makes you evil.

[Vigo]

Nope, I didn't forget. It's just that Rick has more unnecessary kills under his belt than Shane. The two guys in the bar that wanted to join Rick's group, all but two of the surviving prisoners. You could even easily say that Rick was the one who planned to kill Shane (Through manipulation of Laurie) Rick let him self get in a perfect situation to kill Shane with nobody questioning his motive. Anytime Rick feels threatened by somebody he just offs them.

Shane's kills fall under the same justification. Killing Otis allowed Shane to escape with the respirator and save Carl, and killing the kid kept that other group of survivors from retaliating and attacking the farm.

[Howard_Casto]

No, no he doesn't.  Maybe you've been watching a different show but:

1.  The guys at the bar literally drew a gun on him and he fired to defend himself at the last second.  That's not murder, it's self-defense.
2.  Again, the prisoners tried to kill him, that's not unnecessary although I'll give you that the one he left to the walkers was pushing it and this was Rick's one and only break.      You'll remember that he spared two of them.  Shane would have killed them.
3.  Rick was trying to give Shane every opportunity, which is why he followed him into the woods.. hoping Shane would change his mind.
4.  Shane could have given Otis the respirator and sacrificed himself, which would have been the right thing to do.  (Even though we've been over this, those zombies were a mile away and neither was in any real danger.)
5.  Shane Killed that kid to lure Rick out, again, evil intent. 

Not only what you do, but why you did it is the final deciding factor of if it's a villainous act or not.

I think you are confused.  I never said that Rick was the hero, just that Shane was decidedly the villain.  Although that Laurie argument could certainly be made.  You are also confusing threat level with the validity of their villain status, Dick Dastardly is probably the most ineffective villain ever, but he's still a villain. 

[ChadTower]

I think it's entirely possible  Shane would have stabilized after he hooked up with Andrea if Laurie hadn't dragged him back in and crushed him.  That would have been a good thing for him to the point that he almost left with Andrea... except he didn't want to leave Laurie.

[Vigo]

Rick is a police sheriff. He knows how to approach people without provoking them, but he deliberately acts threatening in order to justify killing them. Ever sense the barn issue, he had snapped. Time and time again he provokes people and kills them.

In the bar, Rick backed the guy into drawing his gun. Rick would rather see them dead than share any info or even lie to them about their location. In the prison, Rick allowed himself into the situation of having a walker tossed at him. It was obvious he wanted them to try something so he had the excuse to kill them. Rick also let himself into the woods alone with Shane to allow Shane to make his move. It played out exactly how Rick wanted it to, and he took Shane down.

Going to Shane's kill of Otis, Shane would have no reason to sacrifice himself and give the respirator to Otis. Otis was not only slow, but untrustable after shooting Carl. Shane was not convinced it was a hunting accident. With the kid from the other group, Shane stated all along that they should just kill the kid. They even had a group vote about killing him, and all but Dale agreed to kill him. Shane was doing what Rick couldn't manage to bring himself to do. Shane was clear all along that he has been the one making the tough calls for the safety of the group. Yeah, I'd call him crazy, unstable and dangerous, but not a villain.

[ChadTower]

Yeah, that's a point nobody has brought up... Shane may have killed Otis as punishment for killing Carl.

(At that point Carl was just about as good as dead.)

[Howard_Casto]

Wrong again guys.  If Otis was such a bad guy then why did he volunteer to risk his life?  He was untrustable?  WTF are you talking about?  He didn't shoot at Carl, he shot at a Deer and accidentally hit Carl!  Again, are you watching the same show?

See I think the problem is you guys believed the crap that Shane told other people to justify his self serving motives.  Remember the flashback when he's at the hospital trying to save Rick?  What he does is run like a little ---smurfette--- because he gets scared, but what he tells Rick is that he did everything he could, and what he tells Laurie is that Rick is dead.  He's a liar.. you couldn't trust a single word that came out of his mouth and his ACTIONS proved that anything he did was self-serving.  That's a villain.  He SAID he cared about the safety of the group but his actions almost always contradicted that.  What he actually cared about was his own sorry life, getting back into Laurie's pants, and to a much lesser degree Carl and possibly to an even lesser degree Rick.   

On your points with Rick, again I can't believe you watched the same show.  Nope... that was Rick giving people the benefit of the doubt until he was absolutely certain that there was no other way.  Those guys in the bar were bad guys. This was apparent.  They were talking about raping women, pissing all over the bar, ect.... Rick didn't let his guard down because only a moron would trust scum like that.  And he's a police officer so he knows how to approach people?  What cops do you know?  Because all the ones I know barely have any training at all.  Also he's a cop in Georgia.

But lets leave the season 3 stuff out of it just for the sake of argument, because season 3 stuff is irrelevant to the discussion.  We were talking about who is the villain in season's 1 and 2, not 3.  I mean the whole theme of season 3 was that Rick had gone insane and had to get it together.  Crazy isn't evil, but cowardly and self-serving (which Shane was) is evil. 

Shane's was the worst kind of evil... the "Doctor Smith" evil. 

[Vigo]

I'm more just pointing out that Shane, from his own viewpoint, was trying to help the group the whole time. Opening the Barn, Killing that Kid, stashing weapons, not wanting anyone sent out to look for Sophie. Arguably his resistance kept everyone alive. He didn't trust Otis, and he was in "Father mode" about Carl at the time.  Sure a lot of that is just rationalizing it in his head, but that is part and parcel with being bat ---steaming pile of meadow muffin--- insane.

In the bar, Rick could have lied his ass off and almost definitely gotten away with it. Doesn't mean he had to let his guard down. He went off the same deep end that Shane did, but there was nobody questioning his morality after Dale died, Hershel stopped giving a crap, and Laurie had his back. Rick either had to be extremely stupid to want to go alone in the woods with Shane, or he had planned on killing him like Laurie wanted. My money is on he wanted to kill Shane.

[shponglefan]

Andreas's death WAS a surprise.... it and the fact that they let the Governor live were the only two surprises for me.  Andrea's death was a welcomed one though.  Hopefully they realized what a whiny blonde bimbo they had turned her into and decided to cut their losses.  It's a shame because the comic version of her was so strong.

Really?  I figured her character had run its course this season.  She was one of my three "picks" to be bumped off this season.  Others were Merle and Hershel.  Figured once Rick got his head back together, Hershel's role as Rick's conscience had come to an end.  I figured they'd take him out during the prison fighting, but as you said, they kind of wussed out on that portion.

I think the show has a problem at this point, because they've blended a lot of what happens further down the books with the season finale.  And this next stretch of the comics is particularly bad.  It's actually only picked up over the last few months.

Give the way the show has gone vs the comics, it wouldn't surprise me if they start picking earlier storylines and incorporating them.  Esp. since they've added Tyrese to the show now.

[DaOld Man]

Ok, Ive been watching TWD since day one, and I do like it.
I have also been tracking this thread, and I like it too.
You guys bring up some good points and insights.
Now mine:
I think it is past time to get rid of the guvner. I wished they had killed him off sooner, even though he is not dead now, so we will most likely see more of him. I just think that story line was getting very stale.
Andrea's death surprised me, but this show seems to kill off main characters at the drop of a hat.
I was hoping we would see more stories stemming from Merle, maybe he would turn to the light side.

The part about the meat zombie was very unbelievable, but lets not get into that discussion again.

Personal prediction:
I think Carl is developing a dark side and the story will branch off to him becoming evil and doing something incredible stupid.
(He did shoot that kid point blank in cold blood, and Hershel ate cheese on him to Rick, so I think Carl will do something to him in the next season.)

[Louis Tully]

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[zanna5910]

Some good memes and whatnot I found out on the internet for The Walking Dead TV Show


http://thechive.com/2013/04/03/a-few-things-that-make-no-sense-about-the-walking-dead-33-photos/
http://www.funnyordie.com/slideshows/74e42ca624/41-of-the-best-walking-dead-memes-from-season-3
http://www.funnyordie.com/slideshows/786b565d13/42-more-hilarious-walking-dead-memes-from-season-3?playlist=featured_pictures_and_words