No yoke from Ram Controls

[Xiaou2]

All sounds like more excuses to me.

 Personally, I have a hard time telling anyone a lie.  To me, its very disrespectful.
And to have you make light of it, only makes that disrespect even worse.

 The BS and lies only make it feel very unsafe to order from you... even If you are
the only source for a part.

 Is this how your mother raised you?  Telling you lie after lie, broken promises..etc?  Is that why you feel its OK to do it to others?

 If I had business troubles, with a known delay of time in sight... Id email the customers the truth, and ask if there was to be a refund asap.  If people had any problems, I wouldnt lie about it.  Id be honest and direct.  People respect that... and they would return for repeat business once things are rolling again.

 I believe you would probably have 5x the orders you currently get, if people trusted you more.  And that trust is flushed down the drain, once you decide to tell a lie & shove some BS down peoples throats.

 As for tracking and insurance.. people are more than willing to pay the extra money. 
Its pretty much standard practice anywhere you order from on the net.

[Hoopz]

All sounds like more excuses to me.

 Personally, I have a hard time telling anyone a lie.  To me, its very disrespectful.
And to have you make light of it, only makes that disrespect even worse.

 The BS and lies only make it feel very unsafe to order from you... even If you are
the only source for a part.

 Is this how your mother raised you?  Telling you lie after lie, broken promises..etc?  Is that why you feel its OK to do it to others?

 If I had business troubles, with a known delay of time in sight... Id email the customers the truth, and ask if there was to be a refund asap.  If people had any problems, I wouldnt lie about it.  Id be honest and direct.  People respect that... and they would return for repeat business once things are rolling again.

 I believe you would probably have 5x the orders you currently get, if people trusted you more.  And that trust is flushed down the drain, once you decide to tell a lie & shove some BS down peoples throats.

 As for tracking and insurance.. people are more than willing to pay the extra money. 
Its pretty much standard practice anywhere you order from on the net.

Spot on except maybe he'd get more than 5x the orders.  I know I won't buy from him until this gets fixed.  I think a lot of people feel that way too.

[Havok]

Spot on except maybe he'd get more than 5x the orders.  I know I won't buy from him until this gets fixed.  I think a lot of people feel that way too.

I'd like to put in a pre-order for a Ram Effect t-shirt!

[pinballwizard79]

I really want to buy one of these for a nice little table top auxiliary control panel that I could pull out & plug into my USB hub on the arcade when the SW bug hits me.

The problem is all I hear are complaints about people who paid for the item forever ago & still have yet to receive their part. Its not just one person on a rant, there are many people with the same problem. How does Randy & Andy manage to ship parts all over in less than a year but Ram cannot? Just do a search on this forum to see all the other people upset.

Seems like the safest way to obtain this part is to talk a fellow BYOAC member out of the one they received  I will put in a nice order if I can get the item next week & pay for it later.

[meherenow]

Not meaning to distract the thread, but I just came up with a great idea for a t-shirt that involves "RAM Effect" and the "roasting" concept.... LOL  I'll flesh out that idea and present it later.  Yes, I can laugh at myself.  :-)

Dave

I'm glad you find it all funny Dave - I don't.

I don't find it funny that you leave me hanging on for weeks and weeks on end with no contact about my paid up front for yoke and USB lead.  Those weeks and weeks at a time (in between your sporadic broken promises) that add up to SEVENTEEN MONTHS of good natured patience which you don't deserve.   

Laugh that one up.

[SammyWI]

I really want to buy one of these for a nice little table top auxiliary control panel that I could pull out & plug into my USB hub on the arcade when the SW bug hits me.

The problem is all I hear are complaints about people who paid for the item forever ago & still have yet to receive their part. Its not just one person on a rant, there are many people with the same problem. How does Randy & Andy manage to ship parts all over in less than a year but Ram cannot? Just do a search on this forum to see all the other people upset.

Seems like the safest way to obtain this part is to talk a fellow BYOAC member out of the one they received  I will put in a nice order if I can get the item next week & pay for it later.

Yup.  I'd love to pick up one of these units, but I don't have any faith that I'd actually receive the order.  At all. 

[VanillaGorilla]

Ya know, Star Wars yokes are not necessarily like hens teeth, they come up on ebay pretty regularly... If you dont want to wait for a back order, you are ENTITLED to ask for a refund. It almost seems like some of you want to hold the guy hostage or something, its kinda creepy.

Just ask for your money back if you don't want to wait for your order to be filled, and take your purchase elsewhere. Quit bitching. BTW, Home Depot always has PVC fittings in stock, you could just make your own

It always sucks when the marketplace has only one supplier of a particular part or product, because that takes the power away from the consumer to get the best price/customer service.

I believe Dave started doing this at his leisure, for his pleasure. I credit the guy for continuing to offer these items to the public, with all of the flak he has had to take from the vocal minority who did not receive their products in a timely fashion, or as they expected to receive them. I know I couldn't put up with all the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---, thats for sure.

When he does supply said part, the consensus seems to be that its quality EXCEEDS the OEM it is replacing. Havok?

This reminds me of when I was in the auto restoration/ body repair business a decade ago. I would get stuck in the middle between a customer who wanted an oddball reproduction part for their vintage/classic vehicle, and a vendor/hobbyist who was making said widget in their spare time, simply for the love of the vehicle (hand-made gauge faces from eastern-europe come to mind). My standard policy in this situation, when asked the question "When will it be ready?", was "When its ready. There is only one known supplier of this part.  If you are not prepared to wait at the mercy of this vendor, I would suggest examining the used parts marketplace/car shows/junkyards."

This sounds like the same situation. You cant have it both ways. If you dont want to wait, DONT WAIT. ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK AND SHOP ELSEWHERE. If you want to wait, sit tight, and shut up. You're lucky to have access to a BRAND NEW yoke. Do you know how many known Star Wars cabinets are reported in existence? GGDB says 126!!! Lets be generous and say there are ten times as many still out there. (only 12,695 were EVER made) Why should anyone care about making these? Who could run a sustainable business selling these when the purchasing pool is so small as to be non-existent by most business standards? No-one else did until Dave came along. If Star Wars is your thing, and you're the church-going type, you should be THANKING JESUS on Sundays that Dave does this as a hobby.  Be happy you can get one at all, and stop trashing him and his SIDE BUSINESS.

[Xiaou2]

The people that order didnt have as much as problem with waiting, as they do with all the Lies and BS.

If your an honest and respectful person, you come right out and say things lie

"your order is estimated to take another 2 months at current build progress... IF progress remains steady"

Not:  Its shipping out tomorrow, and will be there in a week.
then: UPS lost it.
then: There was a chip on the handle so we have to change it
then: it will be ship out once we build a packing machine
then: it was about to ship out, but the dog ate it.

 People do this to string you along.  But you cant string people along like this and expect no negative response.  Its not right Period.

[pinballwizard79]

Gorilla I think if Dave said "in 17 months I will ship your item" people would have asked for a refund or not ordered at all. You can act all poor poor Dave if you want but he Eff'd over people. This isnt a case of impatient people, this is a case of YEARS going by, months between email responses of lies & broken promises.

Stop being an enabler!

Instead they wait a month for a reply stating that the item is in transit. A month later its another promise, a month & a half later its another promise. Just enough people receive the yoke & talk about it here & elsewhere to give the victims hope.

This is no different than slickstick, the same warning signs are present.

[meherenow]

Ya know, Star Wars yokes are not necessarily like hens teeth, they come up on ebay pretty regularly... If you dont want to wait for a back order, you are ENTITLED to ask for a refund. It almost seems like some of you want to hold the guy hostage or something, its kinda creepy.

Just ask for your money back if you don't want to wait for your order to be filled, and take your purchase elsewhere. Quit bitching. BTW, Home Depot always has PVC fittings in stock, you could just make your own

It always sucks when the marketplace has only one supplier of a particular part or product, because that takes the power away from the consumer to get the best price/customer service.

I believe Dave started doing this at his leisure, for his pleasure. I credit the guy for continuing to offer these items to the public, with all of the flak he has had to take from the vocal minority who did not receive their products in a timely fashion, or as they expected to receive them. I know I couldn't put up with all the ---That which is odiferous and causeth plants to grow---, thats for sure.

When he does supply said part, the consensus seems to be that its quality EXCEEDS the OEM it is replacing. Havok?

This reminds me of when I was in the auto restoration/ body repair business a decade ago. I would get stuck in the middle between a customer who wanted an oddball reproduction part for their vintage/classic vehicle, and a vendor/hobbyist who was making said widget in their spare time, simply for the love of the vehicle (hand-made gauge faces from eastern-europe come to mind). My standard policy in this situation, when asked the question "When will it be ready?", was "When its ready. There is only one known supplier of this part.  If you are not prepared to wait at the mercy of this vendor, I would suggest examining the used parts marketplace/car shows/junkyards."

This sounds like the same situation. You cant have it both ways. If you dont want to wait, DONT WAIT. ASK FOR YOUR MONEY BACK AND SHOP ELSEWHERE. If you want to wait, sit tight, and shut up. You're lucky to have access to a BRAND NEW yoke. Do you know how many known Star Wars cabinets are reported in existence? GGDB says 126!!! Lets be generous and say there are ten times as many still out there. (only 12,695 were EVER made) Why should anyone care about making these? Who could run a sustainable business selling these when the purchasing pool is so small as to be non-existent by most business standards? No-one else did until Dave came along. If Star Wars is your thing, and you're the church-going type, you should be THANKING JESUS on Sundays that Dave does this as a hobby.  Be happy you can get one at all, and stop trashing him and his SIDE BUSINESS.

I have kept my mouth shut for 17 months so why shouldn't I now shout it from the rooftops - and as for a "side business", his website comes across as a BUSINESS - not a hobby shop!  He talks about "our staff" - is there any more than just Dave?

Other people have their yoke, those that paid for it long after me, so why should I not feel aggreived at being fobbed off?

In fact, did you actually read my post earlier where I reproduce the email wisdom of Dave?

[pinballwizard79]

If Star Wars is your thing, and you're the church-going type, you should be THANKING JESUS on Sundays that Dave does this as a hobby.  Be happy you can get one at all, and stop trashing him and his SIDE BUSINESS.

Would Jesus cash a check & not send out a product after a year & a half of lies?

[Hoopz]

I've said it before but when you start charging money for your time, let alone expenses, it's a whole new ballgame.  It's no longer a hobby; it's in fact a business.  Say what you will about the niche hobby, but certain vendors deliver their products without all of the lies and b.s.

[VanillaGorilla]

If Star Wars is your thing, and you're the church-going type, you should be THANKING JESUS on Sundays that Dave does this as a hobby.  Be happy you can get one at all, and stop trashing him and his SIDE BUSINESS.

Would Jesus cash a check & not send out a product after a year & a half of lies?

No, he would turn it into loaves and fishes and go have a fish sandwich. At least I think thats what it says in the bible...

[Xiaou2]

It is better to lose a sale being Honest,
than to keep or gain a sale using lies.

[VanillaGorilla]

It is better to lose a sale being Honest,
than to keep or gain a sale using lies.

One word. Microsoft.

[ark_ader]

Huh?

Last I read about his Dave had his yokes in the mail. and we had a review, and it was a good good yoke with a nice USB interface.

Is this thread Dave bashing, or has Dave gone on another long holiday?

I haven't read the whole thread.  Its mostly whine, and I prefer Guinness.  

[JustMichael]

Hey Dave!!
I would like to order a Star Wars yoke.  Could you send it to me in 1-2 weeks and I will pay for it in around 18+ months?   

[Xiaou2]

Microsoft?! Really?!

 Get real.

 Firstly, if you order a product from them... they dont tell you its in the mail, the dog ate it...etc.

[nick3092]

To finish up my story, the replacement handle did arrive Friday.

To sum up the whole experience, I do believe you will EVENTUALLY get your product if you order.  And it is a high quality product.  I have no issues with the product itself, and would recommend the product to anyone who was seriously thinking about getting one.

However, you are probably going to have to do a lot of leg work to keep on Dave to get your yoke.  And you probably are going to have to swallow a few lies.  I was told no less than 3 times that my yoke was shipping "next week".  And I have never heard of someone who supposedly had so many problems with receiving e-mail.  Additionally, I found out that someone who ordered in like March of 2010 got their yoke before at least a month before i got mine (I ordered in Oct 2009).  So either his record keeping on when people ordered is horrible, he doesn't ship orders based on FIFO, or that person just complained louder than I did.

I am not trying to attack Dave personally, or say you shouldn't order from him.  I'm just telling you what my experience was.  And based on what I've read, I'm not the only one who had to deal with the same things I did.  He may have bit off more than he could chew with this project.  And if that was the case, I would have had much more respect for him if he would have said that, instead of feeding me a constant string of lies.

[Dazz]

Man, I really want to order one of these soooo freaking bad.... However, I'm really being put off by all the horror stories. 

[Cananas]

Listen, I've already admitted that I have trouble with shipping, especially those overseas orders.  Who wants to pay $80+ to ship UPS (with REAL tracking)?  Nobody!  In the end, I cough it up to ship UPS and the yokes arrive.  I am fully aware of the very few orders I need to resolve and I'll take care of it.  End of story, really.

Do you really think that after paying more than 300$ people would mind paying 80$+ to ensure the package?

[JustMichael]

Listen, I've already admitted that I have trouble with shipping, especially those overseas orders.  Who wants to pay $80+ to ship UPS (with REAL tracking)?  Nobody!  In the end, I cough it up to ship UPS and the yokes arrive.  I am fully aware of the very few orders I need to resolve and I'll take care of it.  End of story, really.

Why do you think most companies charge seperately for shipping?  Believe it or not people understand it does costs money to ship stuff to them.  Since you are only charging $10 for shipping (to apparently anywhere), this leaves you footing the rest of the shipping beyond the $10.  Considering the size and weight of a Star Wars yoke, I guess this means you spend a lot more on shipping than you would like.

[Vebbo]

Man, I really want to order one of these soooo freaking bad.... However, I'm really being put off by all the horror stories. 

+1

 

[Hoopz]

Man, I really want to order one of these soooo freaking bad.... However, I'm really being put off by all the horror stories. 

+1

 

+10,000

It would make a lot of sense for Davea to sell a large number of these to a reputable vendor on these boards.  If I knew Andy, RandyT, Divemaster127 or someone else that I trust had a large quantity of these, I would pop down the cash immediately. 

I would even pay a markup as insurance to that vendor to make sure that I got what I ordered (in a timely manner being the key part of it).

[Rick]

Listen, I've already admitted that I have trouble with shipping, especially those overseas orders.  Who wants to pay $80+ to ship UPS (with REAL tracking)?  Nobody!

I beg to differ.

Companies produce their items from their facilities, and are either centralized (i.e. one facility for orders, invoicing, production and shipping) or through a decentralized method, whereby they have multiple locations, drop-shipping, etc. etc.  If these companies are a small operation, they look to ship within their local geographic, or else they seek to ship with a recognized shipping company to 'get it there'.  Depending on your area, that could be UPS, FedEx, etc.  (I'm in Canada, and work for Canada's largest Courier Company, Purolator Courier.)  If companies can meet certain shipping minimums, they can get a major discount through these companies, thus making their shipping cheaper.  (Most of these discounts are usually much higher than 50%, btw.)

People pay for shipping every day, and happily, so that they will get their packages in an acceptable amount of time.  I've dealt with many different companies, and can tell you that companies don't take the shipping on themselves - it's not smart business.  In fact, most companies will take the discount provided by the Courier Company, apply their own 'handling charge', usually by way of percentage, to make more money.  It's not unethical - it's part of their business model.  And, of course, paying extra for shipping is understood by all of their customers as 'the cost of doing business'.

Overseas orders can be a bit trickier, but that's when companies get into a distribution model.  They partner with overseas distributors, get an order with a discount for mass quantities, produce the items, get paid, and ship the items to them for distribution.  You work to find a company that will sell your product, and then, you get to ship out bulk shipments of multiple items, at yet another discount.

Everybody recognizes a small company that provides a niche product.  If they're the only company producing the product, they can pretty much get away with whatever they want in the short term.  Of course, they're also usually the company that disappears overnight, once a competitor reverse engineers their product and then starts their own distribution.  I would always deal with a company that says, "our product costs this, and our shipping cost is this for local and this if you're not local" over the ambiguous promise.

[CheffoJeffo]

It would make a lot of sense for Davea to sell a large number of these to a reputable vendor on these boards.  If I knew Andy, RandyT, Divemaster127 or someone else that I trust had a large quantity of these, I would pop down the cash immediately. 

I would even pay a markup as insurance to that vendor to make sure that I got what I ordered (in a timely manner being the key part of it).

Arcadeshop stocks other RAM Controls stuff, so that might be a natural fit and would relieve Dave of the nastiness associated with shipping and those who cheap out on the shipping options.

I believe that the actual assembly of the yokes was also a big time consumer and would guess that some of the shipping delays were driven by an overly ambitious schedule for assembling the parts.

Those who think that everybody is willing to pay for the extra level of assurance with shipping hasn't been in this hobby long enough -- we are, overall, a cheap bunch.

I have had vendors react with shock when I request a more expensive shipping option, because "everybody wants to go cheap".

In my experience, the single biggest problem (other than perhaps cost) with shipping from the US to Canada is tracking and, also in my experience, the best tracking is available from the USPS (who then hand over tracking to Canada Post). BUT, most often buyers select only the cheapest options OR the vendor wants a single tracking source like UPS (who totally suck on the buyer side for international shipments).

[Hoopz]

It would make a lot of sense for Davea to sell a large number of these to a reputable vendor on these boards.  If I knew Andy, RandyT, Divemaster127 or someone else that I trust had a large quantity of these, I would pop down the cash immediately. 

I would even pay a markup as insurance to that vendor to make sure that I got what I ordered (in a timely manner being the key part of it).

Arcadeshop stocks other RAM Controls stuff, so that might be a natural fit and would relieve Dave of the nastiness associated with shipping and those who cheap out on the shipping options.

I believe that the actual assembly of the yokes was also a big time consumer and would guess that some of the shipping delays were driven by an overly ambitious schedule for assembling the parts.

Those who think that everybody is willing to pay for the extra level of assurance with shipping hasn't been in this hobby long enough -- we are, overall, a cheap bunch.

I have had vendors react with shock when I request a more expensive shipping option, because "everybody wants to go cheap".

In my experience, the single biggest problem (other than perhaps cost) with shipping from the US to Canada is tracking and, also in my experience, the best tracking is available from the USPS (who then hand over tracking to Canada Post). BUT, most often buyers select only the cheapest options OR the vendor wants a single tracking source like UPS (who totally suck on the buyer side for international shipments).

If they're cheap, they can roll the dice and pay Dave for a yoke.  Me? I'd rather pay more for the assurance that I would get it delivered.

[Havok]

Dave should really offer an option to "build your own" - he could reduce the price and just pack all the parts up for the end user to assemble. I would think that would aleviate quite a few of the shipping delays because assembling one of these things is very labor intensive. Plus it's more fun for us to put them together...

[JustMichael]

Dave should really offer an option to "build your own" - he could reduce the price and just pack all the parts up for the end user to assemble. I would think that would aleviate quite a few of the shipping delays because assembling one of these things is very labor intensive. Plus it's more fun for us to put them together...

+1.  This idea even goes with the name of the website "Build Your Own Arcade Controls"...   

[Hoopz]

Dave should really offer an option to "build your own" - he could reduce the price and just pack all the parts up for the end user to assemble. I would think that would aleviate quite a few of the shipping delays because assembling one of these things is very labor intensive. Plus it's more fun for us to put them together...

+1.  This idea even goes with the name of the website "Build Your Own Arcade Controls"...   

He'd still have to ship the parts.  If he can't box up one yoke, do you trust him to box up ALL of the parts?

 

[Havok]

Yeah, but I think the issue is that he doesn't have them built yet. We've all seen the pictures of the pile of parts - it's a lot easier to just ship the stuff than spend 2+ hours building it then shipping. Especially when he has multiples to worry about.

[bkenobi]

Yeah, but I think the issue is that he doesn't have them built yet. We've all seen the pictures of the pile of parts - it's a lot easier to just ship the stuff than spend 2+ hours building it then shipping. Especially when he has multiples to worry about.

I have no intention to order a yoke, I've just been reading along.  If it takes 2+ hours to build one, then it will take an end user 2+ hours as well (most likely 4+).  But, if Dave sells 10 yokes in parts, he will likely get 20 questions on how to assemble the thing.  I personally think a DIY option would be good, but I bet it won't save him any time with all the questions he'll surely have to answer.

[Havok]

Cheffo is going to handle all the support requests...

And when he's busy, Xiaou will take care of the rest.

 

[Donkey_Kong]

Yeah, but I think the issue is that he doesn't have them built yet. We've all seen the pictures of the pile of parts - it's a lot easier to just ship the stuff than spend 2+ hours building it then shipping. Especially when he has multiples to worry about.

I have no intention to order a yoke, I've just been reading along.  If it takes 2+ hours to build one, then it will take an end user 2+ hours as well (most likely 4+).  But, if Dave sells 10 yokes in parts, he will likely get 20 questions on how to assemble the thing.  I personally think a DIY option would be good, but I bet it won't save him any time with all the questions he'll surely have to answer.

Make a how to video...

[Vebbo]

Yeah, but I think the issue is that he doesn't have them built yet. We've all seen the pictures of the pile of parts - it's a lot easier to just ship the stuff than spend 2+ hours building it then shipping. Especially when he has multiples to worry about.

I have no intention to order a yoke, I've just been reading along.  If it takes 2+ hours to build one, then it will take an end user 2+ hours as well (most likely 4+).  But, if Dave sells 10 yokes in parts, he will likely get 20 questions on how to assemble the thing.  I personally think a DIY option would be good, but I bet it won't save him any time with all the questions he'll surely have to answer.

Make a how to video...

Yup, thats it. Can't be that hard to do.

[CheffoJeffo]

Cheffo is going to handle all the support requests...

 

'Coz every knows how fast *I* am to respond ...   

[Rick]

'Coz every knows how fast *I* am to respond ...   

That's what she said?

[yotsuya]

Yeah, Do-It-Yourself might be an additional set of headaches.

I'd like to order one as well. We'll see what the year brings.

[CheffoJeffo]

'Coz every knows how fast *I* am to respond ...   

That's what she said?

Not lately ... 

[Rick]

Not lately ... 

Sorry to hear that.  Thread title changed in your honor.