Noob (who's researched) still with lots of questions...

[HanoiBoi]

Hello all,

I'm in the planning stages of my first build and really want to get some of my parts ordered, but I've got so many questions still.

For starters, I want to order a joystick and a few buttons for trial hook up, etc.  Of course, I want to use these in a final build.

BOARD

If a board, which?  minipac, ipac2, ipac 4?  I don't understand exactly what counts as an input

Does a 4/8 way joystick count as 1?
Does a spinner count as 1?
Does a trackball count as 1?
Does a flightstick w/trigger count as 1 or 2 inputs?

Here's what I'm imagining for my configuration...

1 Coin Player 1
1 Coin Player 2
1 1P Start
1 2P Start
1 Pause
1 Power
1 Exit/Escape
2 Mag-Stik Plus
6 Buttons Player 1
6 Buttons Player 2
1 Trackball
1 Spinner Player 1
1 Flight Type Joystick w/ Trigger (is this 2 inputs?)
2 Flippers
2 Nudge
1 Plunger
2 Light guns (future)
1 Spinner Player 2 (maybe)
1 Pause (maybe) - pause buttons would be side mounted behind Nudge - 1 per player

I'm definitely in the 32 input neighborhood, and I could probably easily keep it under with a shift/shazzam function, but don’t mind going over with a board that would handle it without doubling the price.

With that criteria, which boards are no good for me, which would 'work', which would be ideal?
Will some not work with spinner & trackball?
Will any not work with 2 joys, 1 flight w/trigger, trackball and 1 spinner?
Will any not work with 2 joys, 1 flight w/trigger, trackball and 2 spinners?

BUTTONS
While it would be ideal to use LEDWIZ, not necessarily for aesthetics, but to illuminate the buttons needed per game (for guests), I prefer non-translucent buttons for a more classic look (old classic – Asteroids, Defender, etc.)

I definitely want concave buttons, and from what I’ve read I understand that I should go with cherry microswitches. I thought I came across someone’s photos of a CP that used solid color (appearing at least) buttons that would also illuminate.  Anyone know if this is possible?

ADMINISTRATIVE BUTTONS
Not really sure, but want a clean CP without the possibility of an accidental Pause, Exit or Power off.

Any suggestions accepted.

SPINNER
Can I use spinners as steering wheels? (Super Sprint, Off Road,  etc.)  If so I may want to add a 2nd spinner if space allows.

I want the ability to play Discs Of Tron that uses a Push/Pull spinner.  I also want to be able to play Front Line which I believe requires the spinner to ‘push’.  Also want a good feel for Tempest and most importantly, Arkanoid.  Any suggestions?

FLIGHT STICK W/TRIGGER
Does this count as 2 inputs?
This would be ‘wanted’ by me for Discs Of Tron, Tron, Zaxxon, Red Baron, and I guess some more?

I don’t like the joysticks that look like a bat with a red button on top.  Where can I find a decent flight w/trigger?

JOYSTICKS
I’m pretty much locked into the Mag Stik Plus, as I don’t want to use space for a dedicated 4 way. 

I believe I don’t need Player 2 to ever need a 4 way, thus a Mag Stik Plus would not be needed?  If I wanted the joysticks to look identical, is there another 8 way that I should go with, or simply stick with the 2nd Mag Stik Plus?

TRACKBALL
I’m lost on this.  3”  2 ¼”?  High Track ball, not High Track Ball?  I just want a trackball that I used back in the day in games like Centipede, Reactor, Marble Madness, Atari Football, Bowling games, etc.  What size were they?  Were they ‘High’? No need to illuminate, probably looking for cue ball white.

LED WIZ
If I do end up with some buttons that can illuminate…
Do I need to purchase LEDs separate from the LEDWIZ board? 
Do I need something called an RGB Drive??
Are there certain boards that are compatible/incompatible with LED WIZ (ipac, minipac, etc.)?

SPEAKER CONTROL KNOB
I saw this somewhere, but can’t find one available.  Anyone know where to purchase?

I know this might be overkill or seem like rambling, but really hope to get some answers and tips!

 

Thanks in advance,
HanoiBoi

[bungy]

Joysticks (both 4 & 8 way) typically have 4 microswitches, so 4 inputs.  Each button, even a trigger on a flightstick is another input.

Spinners and trackballs use a different kind of interface so they wouldn't hook up to a keyboard encoder.  I use Ultimarc's SpinTrak and a U-HID nano which connects to the PC with a USB cable.  My trackball is an X-Arcade which has a USB plug built into it.  Both are recognized by my system as mice.  So it depends on what kind of controls you have when determining the interfaces needed.  I'm sure others will chime in on this.

Sounds like you're closer to 40 inputs, I use an IPAC4 and it's great, but that's not to say the KeyWiz isn't.  Go for more inputs, I started out with an IPAC2, but quickly ran out of inputs and my CP is pretty tame.  Be caureful with your ambitions though, search "Frankenpanel" before you decide on a design.  Also, BUILD A MOCKUP CONTROL PANEL.  Out of carboard or something.  Use it to play games, and see how you like the layout.  Take your time, ask lots of questions and try different ideas.

BUTTONS
If you want illuminated opaque buttons, you'll probably have to do this yourself, but as you stated there is a thread out there that deals with this

ADMINISTRATIVE BUTTONS
This is usually a religious issue, but you probably want the power button out of sight on the back of the cabinet, far away from nosy guests and "button pushers" ("What's this button do?")

SPINNER
For push/pull, there's this: http://www.apachecontrols.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1
But I have never used it

FLIGHT STICK W/TRIGGER
Counts as 5 inputs, 6 for DOT

TRACKBALL
Go for the 3", Happ makes a good one, but they are expensive.

SPEAKER CONTROL KNOB
Depends on your sound system.  I used a standard 2.1 computer sound system and extended the volume control with wires and mounted it to the front of my cab

Search the boards, you'll find lots of useful answers that have already been posted.  But you'll find plenty of folks willing to help too. Just break down your questions into smaller chunks
Good Luck!

[HanoiBoi]

Thanks for the reply bungy.  I hear ya on the smaller chunks, and I'm trying, but I've been researching for weeks and the information that's out there really seems quite scattered and frustrating to find.

I also hear you and I'm quite aware of the frankenpanels.  Don't worry, I will not end up on crapmame, not will I be surprised when people don't get my 4 foot spray painted wood 'bed'.  I do want to keep my CP as narrow as possible and I'm still researching measurements for the best fit.

Thanks for your input on the inputs.  That's the kind of info that I need!  Your response did raise another question that I think I had wrong: Is the KEYWIZ an equivalant option to and IPAC4?  Well, that's not phrased well...I was under the impression that the PC to arcade boards (ipac, minipac, optipac) were different and had diffeernt functionalities than a KEYWIZ and a LEDWIZ.  Is this not true?


Without finding a decent program for a CP layout, I very roughly drew up a CP that might fit my interests.  Please realize that I do not have any dimensions or scale to the drawing.  Just an idea of locations. 

Also keep in mind that I'm using a Space Duel cabinet and I'm a big fan of games with similar controls (Space Duel, Asteroids, Rip Off, Gravitar, Star Castle, Omega Race, etc.) so I've got the buttons laid out for both players, with the additional 6th button above.  I am not a fan of fight games, so I don't think I'll do too badly with this lay out.  (?)

Also a huge pinball fan, although I have yet to get Visual Pinball or PinMame configured properly, but I have to forward think!

Oh, one more....with the spinner above the buttons, I can't quite figure which button(s) I might use for firing in various games.  Is this the best layout?  I don't think I want to add another button or two near them...unless absolutely necessary.

Thanks again,
HanoiBoi

[bungy]

Your button layout looks a little weird, but if that's what you want, go for it.  If the cabinet is going to have more games than the ones you listed, you might want to make your CP a little more 'general purpose'.  Remember you're probably going to want to show this thing off to your friends and have them play with you - they might find your layout confusing.

On my CP, I have two primary buttons that are a different color from the rest of the players buttons so it's pretty clear which buttons to try out first.  These are the buttons to use when using the joystick, spinner, or trackball.  Primary fire is always primary fire.

Like I said, make a mockup and test out your layout on a variety of games, you'll be glad you did.  You may find that (for example) there's nowhere for player one to rest his wrist when using the spinner.

I'm not familiar with the Keywiz, but I understand it's pretty much that same thing as the IPAC.

[HanoiBoi]

Thanks again Bungy.  I agree with the hand rest when using spinner.  I still haven't locked in on that.  I'm also trying to figure out which button(s) I would use for firing, when using spinner games.  Do most use the spinner with left hand, or right hand?

Not sure if you were shooting for sarcasm, but of course I plan to use more games than listed.  

I also completely agree that I don't want to cause confusion with the buttons.  That's the main reason I would consider LED WIZ.  Quite frankly, I'm confused when I see 6 buttons, 7 buttons and sometimes 8 buttons on just about every MAME CP out there.  Remember, I'm not into the fighting games (never played them) so I don't really understand the need for so many buttons.  I'm even considering just keeping the 5 buttons per player (Asteroids config).  I figured I'd throw the 6th in for games that I haven't yet figured on, and general consensus .  If you can cite examples of games that I'd be 'losing' by using just 5 buttons, please shoot me a warning!  

I appreciate the criticism and by no means take offense, but I am curious as to what you find weird about the button layout?  The 6 buttons per player, and/or all of the other buttons?

I'd be curious to see your CP if you have it posted.  I have considered making the fire buttons 'red' similar to your suggestion.  I just haven't figured out which button that would be.

Thanks again!

[Epyx]

I'd like to comment on a few of your questions.

Joysticks

I would seriously reconsider the Mag Stick Plus, unless you have already used it and love it. Depending on the type of feel you are looking for my bet is you will either love the Mag Stick or hate it...I fall in to the hate it camp...firmly. To me the feel and short throw just make 8 way games feel "not right"...seems "ok" for 4 way and shooters but fighters, platformers etc it's terrible (again my opinion).

What I would suggest is you buy a 2nd stick just to get a different feel before you commit.  Worst case you have a spare for a 2nd project...best case you have a better stick with one or the other.

The stick I would recommend looking at are the 360 or Sanwa sticks. I purchased the Sanwa J Sticks (balltops) and I love the feel.  

I would then just set the left player 1 stick to 8 way and the right player stick to 4 way...and keep it that way unless you have a guest over in which case you can just switch it at the base. You will find that this will work for you without having to switch it 90% of the time, unless your mr social!  Then you just configure 4 way games to the player 2 stick for player 1 play  and 8 way games to player 1.

Administrative Buttons

It's been said by others but I echo the suggestion. Just use shifted controls for the admin features.  

Trackball

Im pretty anti Xgaming for their other products but one of their products stands out, their trackball. It's pretty easy to install, USB plug in and feels just like the classic trackball used in the games you mentioned.  It is a clone of the Betson Imperial which to me is "proto" trackball. But you can't go wrong with the other ones available either.

Speaker control

For aesthetics, if done right, a speaker control looks great. However, a simple solution is to use one of many apps available to control volume through your CP controls.

Good luck!

[HanoiBoi]

Hi Epyx,

Thanks for your comments!  

Joysticks

Your implied assumptions about my reason for the mag-stik plus (surface switchable) are dead on.  No, I haven't had the opportunity to try one, but perhaps I should look into it....I do know someone locally that has one (or two) but doesn't have his system working at the moment.

I agree with the ball top and was planning to later purchase the optional ball top for the mag stik plus.

I like the idea of the top switchable stick because it will be easier to teach the kids and guests.  I don't consider myself Mr Social, lol, but I did just finish a basement bar that can seat 12 comfortably, so we get our visitors.  

Are there any other surface switchable sticks on the market?  I haven't come across any....

I'm really not planning on a 2nd project, and I'm pretty sure my wife would agree.    I'm hoping to cover bases in the first project.  

Trackball

I will look into the XGaming track ball option.  Thanks for the tip.    I am still at a lost regarding the 'high ball' description that I have read.  Is this the norm, or the exception?  A high ball track ball that I'm imagining would be one that will quickly takes it's toll on one's palm, like if it banged too hard into the (more exposed?) side of the ball.  Is this correct thinking?

Administrative Buttons

Understood, and in agreement.  But, how many buttons would truly be needed?  As is stands, I'm planning for Power (on back side of CP), Exit and Pause (maybe one for each player).  (Does coin count as admin?)  That's not overkill is it?  Can it be simplified?  I did think that I could use Pause with Exit, but then I'd still need to add a 'shift/shazaam' button, correct?

I may try to incorporate a working coin door in the future, but for now it will be buttons.  I was thinking of keeping the coin buttons down bottom, close to the coin doors for that authentic scramble and reach when a player needs to add a credit.

Speaker Control
I guess I wasn't aware of any programs out there, but still I'd like to be able to adjust the volume during game play if needed, which is why I thought an accessible control would be cool.

Buttons

Any thoughts on buttons, Epyx?  NEED- Concave  WANT- Solid look  WANT- illumination option  

I'm looking into Electric Ice and NovaGem currently.  The photos of the NovaGems are hard to make out.  Can't see if they are concave.  The description says 'Horizontal Pushbutton'.  Does this mean that they are flat, and not concave?

Thanks again Epyx.

[bungy]

Not sure if you were shooting for sarcasm, but of course I plan to use more games than listed.   

Not being sarcastic, every project is different so I didn't want to make assumptions.  Your layout seemed specialized for the vector games you listed so I wasn't sure what your goals were

I appreciate the criticism and by no means take offense, but I am curious as to what you find weird about the button layout?  The 6 buttons per player, and/or all of the other buttons?

I'd be curious to see your CP if you have it posted.  I have considered making the fire buttons 'red' similar to your suggestion.  I just haven't figured out which button that would be.

Wasn't meant to be offensive, but I was referring to the "shape" of the collection of player buttons near the sticks.  Just seems awkward to me, but if it works for you, by all means go with it.

Here are some pics of my CP.  Believe it or not, it's my third wooden mockup.  I did the first two before I built the cab, and this one was done with 5/8 particleboard and 1/8 plexi.  I have since acquired 5/8 MDF and made a note to mount joystick bases and the trackball assembly before applying the vinyl overlay
Anyway, each player gets 8 buttons (ideal for console games).  For MAME games the player mostly uses the two green buttons, and the other buttons are used as needed per game.
I have a bunch of admin buttons because I don't want it to be a puzzle to figure out, though I realize the merits of shifted buttons.  The admin buttons don't get in the way when slamming the trackball in Golden Tee and there is room to comfortably use the spinners with the player's right hand.

Admin buttons are:
Start (Play)
Menu (Emu)
Reset
Exit
Save
Load
Pause
Fast Forward (useful for speeding up boot process in MAME games)

The Pause and Fast Forward buttons double as left & right mouse buttons in Windows (trackball is the mouse).
The trackball is an X-Arcade flush mounted by removing the top of the housing and chamfering the hole.  The ball itself is a translucent green one from HAPP that I rigged to light up. Joysticks are also X-Arcade (I had a tankstick and gutted it) and I like them, but I'm considering the 360 as Epyx noted.  Spinners are Ultimarc SpinTraks and they're great, but I need color coordinated knobs.  Buttons are all HAPP and the labels are from Pongo.  Under the hood it's an IPAC4 for the joysticks and buttons (36 inputs), U-HID nano for the spinners, and the trackball is native USB.

[bungy]

The description says 'Horizontal Pushbutton'.  Does this mean that they are flat, and not concave?

No, it means that the microswitch mount is horizontal

[Epyx]

Are there any other surface switchable sticks on the market?  I haven't come across any....

GroovyGameGear sells one -> http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65&products_id=195

I personally can't stand the aesthetics of the Omni stick though...the switch is not nearly as elegant as the Mag Stick offering but for all I know it may handle like a champ, as I have never tried one.

Understood, and in agreement.  But, how many buttons would truly be needed?  As is stands, I'm planning for Power (on back side of CP), Exit and Pause (maybe one for each player).  (Does coin count as admin?)  That's not overkill is it?  Can it be simplified?  I did think that I could use Pause with Exit, but then I'd still need to add a 'shift/shazaam' button, correct?

All I would put in is Power...you can handle Exit and Pause with the IPAC rather easily using Shifted controls and it will make your CP look that much neater.  However, that is a personal choice thing...some have made admin panels look great (Mountain, Pixelhugger etc) others look terribad

But from purely a functional point of view...they aren't required at all with either the IPAC or Keywiz.

I am still at a lost regarding the 'high ball' description that I have read.  Is this the norm, or the exception?  

Highball just implies that more of the physical trackball is above the lip. I personally don't like the feel and prefer the lower trackball profile but again its a personal choice.  

but still I'd like to be able to adjust the volume during game play if needed, which is why I thought an accessible control would be cool.

The programs I was referencing allow you to adjust volume from within games. For example, using Cabvol.exe you can assigned up down volume to your spinner with a shifted key...so Player 1 + Left or right on spinner is volume up or down as an example.

Any thoughts on buttons, Epyx?  NEED- Concave  WANT- Solid look  WANT- illumination option  

I'm looking into Electric Ice and NovaGem currently.  The photos of the NovaGems are hard to make out.  Can't see if they are concave.  The description says 'Horizontal Pushbutton'.  Does this mean that they are flat, and not concave?

You have a few options...you can go the do it yourself route...if you look into Ond's awesome futuristic cab thread you can see one possibility, although it requires some work on your part...he uses regular Happ's concave buttons and modifies them to produce a radial illumination around the base of the plunger.

You could also look at Randy's offering on GroovyGameGear...I am using the Novagems which are concave but somewhat translucent...he also has the electric ice buttons that look solid (non transparent) but are white when  not lit.

Happ's also sells translucent ones.

Andy from Ultimarc also offers some buttons but based purely on aesthetics, I don't like the look of them at all. Plus they aren't concave.

So it boils down, imo, to modding Happs Concave ones yourself or going with one of the GroovyGameGear/Happs translucent options.

hope that helps.

[HanoiBoi]

The description says 'Horizontal Pushbutton'.  Does this mean that they are flat, and not concave?

No, it means that the microswitch mount is horizontal

Thanks bungy.  I would have never guessed that...especially if I were looking to install it as a flipper 

So, you have two spinners in your cab.  Fantastic!  I can get a good answer from you on this...which games do you play with both spinners?  If you were to do it again, would you keep both?  Also, when you spoke of resting hands when using the spinner, was that speaking from experience?

[HanoiBoi]

Highball just implies that more of the physical trackball is above the lip. I personally don't like the feel and prefer the lower trackball profile but again its a personal choice.  

...if you look into Ond's awesome futuristic cab thread you can see one possibility, although it requires some work on your part...he uses regular Happ's concave buttons and modifies them to produce a radial illumination around the base of the plunger.

You could also look at Randy's offering on GroovyGameGear...I am using the Novagems which are concave but somewhat translucent...he also has the electric ice buttons that look solid (non transparent) but are white when  not lit.

Happ's also sells translucent ones.

So it boils down, imo, to modding Happs Concave ones yourself or going with one of the GroovyGameGear/Happs translucent options.

hope that helps.

Absolutely, that helped.
 - I agree, that Omni Stick 'ain't got no alibi'!
 - The trackball info is great.
 - I think I actually saw the 'futuristic cab' buttons that you spoke of, but can't again locate them, but that is kinda what I was thinking.  I wasn't aware that it wasn't easily accomplished.
 - So the NovaGem buttons are concave and are the same shape as other concave buttons??  The reason I dwell on this is because the photos make them appear with a more defined lip, almost like you could fit a dime (or nickel) in the middle and lock it in.  I'll post the photos I'm seeing, and I'll understand how they could look different to you as you've seen an actual button...please try to see how I'm seeing them and let me know if I'm wrong.

[bungy]

So, you have two spinners in your cab.  Fantastic!  I can get a good answer from you on this...which games do you play with both spinners?  If you were to do it again, would you keep both?  Also, when you spoke of resting hands when using the spinner, was that speaking from experience?

Two spinners is overkill, but I'm glad I did it that way.  My cab is designed for swappable CPs (only the top piece gets swapped out (no tools needed!)) and this is my general purpose layout.  I'm going to make another one with a Tron handle and a single spinner and a 4way stick with a few buttons.

I only play one game with two spinners and it's Pong for the Atari 2600 and that's a two player game.  Most people wouldn't do it for one game, but I needed to have pong.  Each spinner controls one axis of the mouse, sort of like an etch-a-sketch.  So I've found a few other uses for the extra spinner.  P1 spinner scrolls through each game in my frontend pretty nicely, and the P2 spinner pages through the list.  I almost exclusively use the spinners for frontend navigation.  Also, the P2 spinner allows me to throw dead straight balls in bowling (useful for 7-10 splits), and straight shots in Golden Tee & Shuffleshot.  I think there's another thread going right now dealing with multi spinner games.

I started out by adding controls to my Tankstick and I put the spinners under the main buttons (only place they would fit), so they were in the way when using the joystick & buttons.  I just kept this in mind when I finally got around to making my mockups. 

Another tip: don't angle your joysticks, keep them perpendicular to the screen.  I tried that out to try to give each player elbow room, but it was a nightmare trying to play games like that.

[Gamester]

- So the NovaGem buttons are concave and are the same shape as other concave buttons??  The reason I dwell on this is because the photos make them appear with a more defined lip, almost like you could fit a dime (or nickel) in the middle and lock it in.  I'll post the photos I'm seeing, and I'll understand how they could look different to you as you've seen an actual button...please try to see how I'm seeing them and let me know if I'm wrong.

What you're seeing is an illusion.  I have the NovaGems, and they have the same surface shape as any standard Happ pushbutton.

The inserts you are seeing are actually installed inside the button.

[HanoiBoi]

I trust you understand the illusion that I'm seeing.  Everything I've read didn't quite match up to what I've been seeing, so thanks!

I am aware of the insert installation, but that still looked like a defined lip, like the end of a balloon 

Anyway, thanks again for the info.  Looks like I'll most likely go with the NovaGems and worry about lighting them later (cost vs. functionality).

[HanoiBoi]

Trackball

Im pretty anti Xgaming for their other products but one of their products stands out, their trackball. It's pretty easy to install, USB plug in and feels just like the classic trackball used in the games you mentioned.  It is a clone of the Betson Imperial which to me is "proto" trackball. But you can't go wrong with the other ones available either.

Is 'Xgaming' the same as X Arcade, as seen here? http://www.xgaming.com/store/arcade-parts-and-accessories/product/x-arcade-trackball-assembly/

Any other suggestions on trackballs...that can be flush mounted?  I also wouldn't mind something in a marble look, perhaps blue w/black.  I am considering a space theme on the CP, but of course don't want to sacrifice functionality.

Thanks

[Ummon]

Is 'Xgaming' the same as X Arcade...?

Yup.

I also wouldn't mind something in a marble look, perhaps blue w/black.

Dude, be careful of thrown stones on that gig......

[protokatie]

I also wouldn't mind something in a marble look, perhaps blue w/black.

Dude, be careful of thrown stones on that gig......

That reminds me of this: http://www.wickedretarded.com/~crapmame/3.html

I guess a marble looking TB might be ok tho.

[HanoiBoi]

 

I've seen all the crapmame stuff and don't plan to be on there, but thanks for the warning!  Actually, I've gone through several times and still laugh every time.  Aces!

I've got an original (well, it would have to be, right?) Space Duel cabinet with side art, and the original Space Duel Marquee.  I'm thinking of a control panel with a space theme....like maybe a Star Wars space battle scene...to add some modernness and compliment the original retro look.

I'm actually considering skipping out on the trackball if that will condense my CP.  I just found an old thread about contemplating a trackball or not and replied with my query.  If you have thoughts on this please let me know!


http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=18568.msg1036582#msg1036582

[arzoo]

HanoiBoi,
I'm not sure if anyone has answered this for you, but the GGG LED-Wiz is just an LED controller. It does not have any keyboard encoder functionality - for that you'll need a IPAC or KEYWiz or similar. As for the RGB Drive - that's just a single RGB LED and resistors mounted on a small circuit board that fits into the GGG Electric Ice buttons (although it can be mounted for other applications also).

[HanoiBoi]

HanoiBoi,
I'm not sure if anyone has answered this for you, but the GGG LED-Wiz is just an LED controller. It does not have any keyboard encoder functionality - for that you'll need a IPAC or KEYWiz or similar. As for the RGB Drive - that's just a single RGB LED and resistors mounted on a small circuit board that fits into the GGG Electric Ice buttons (although it can be mounted for other applications also).

Thanks arzoo.  I do understand that the LED-WIZ is not a keyboard encoder.  I think I worded my question incorrectly (I have so many of them!).  Since posting, I ordered up an IPAC4.  Will that have any impact on whether or not I can use an LED-WIZ in the future?  Or better yet, do the IPAC4 and LEDWIZ connect to each other, and if so are they compatible?

Thanks again!

[arzoo]

Thanks arzoo.  I do understand that the LED-WIZ is not a keyboard encoder.  I think I worded my question incorrectly (I have so many of them!).  Since posting, I ordered up an IPAC4.  Will that have any impact on whether or not I can use an LED-WIZ in the future?  Or better yet, do the IPAC4 and LEDWIZ connect to each other, and if so are they compatible?

Thanks again!

You can definitely add one or more LED-Wiz (or other LED controllers) at a later time. There's no connection between the devices - so no compatibility issues.

[HanoiBoi]

Thanks arzoo.  I do understand that the LED-WIZ is not a keyboard encoder.  I think I worded my question incorrectly (I have so many of them!).  Since posting, I ordered up an IPAC4.  Will that have any impact on whether or not I can use an LED-WIZ in the future?  Or better yet, do the IPAC4 and LEDWIZ connect to each other, and if so are they compatible?

Thanks again!

You can definitely add one or more LED-Wiz (or other LED controllers) at a later time. There's no connection between the devices - so no compatibility issues.

Beauty!  Thanks.  Good info.