Cut the crap - Is the Aimtrak any good?

[Turnarcades]

There are two huge threads now discussing the Aimtrak and so many other points it's hard to follow. I'm aware it's still very much on trial and software and hardware revisions are undoubtedly to come, but as it stands I think there's many after the short answer:

The Aimtrak - is it any good? Yes or no - no elaboration.

[Franco B]

Your likely to get mucho elaboration due to the nature of the topic. It may be better to add a poll if you just want a yes/no answer.

[HaRuMaN]

Or better yet, buy one, and decide for yourself.

[Malenko]

buy me one (or two) and I'll letcha know

[Turnarcades]

Or better yet, buy one, and decide for yourself.

Erm, will do - if it's any good, hence the thread.

[PsychoAU]

No, I mean yes.

[syph007]

It's worth the money to try one.  If you end up hating it, I'm sure you can resell to someone and not take a huge loss.  But I'd bet the results of your poll will be positive, in that 'most' enjoy it, even if it can't pass 100 million tech challenges... its fun to actually use.  Besides me I'd say 10+ guests have used it on my arcade and never done any sort of recalibrating.  You need to leave the crosshair on though.  If you would hate that, you might not like them.

[Drakin]

I say yes..and I'm glad I bought them..I'm after the fun factor and not the "how close to a nats ass accurate" can it be.

I would recomend them to anyone wanting to play light gun games.

[Turnarcades]

Thanks for the responses so far - I'm not waiting to shoot this thing down (quite the opposite, I want it to work well), but I'm not a chancer and after paying out and being let down horribly with previous light gun offerings, I've gotta be sure. I want to be one of the first to offer them with cabinets, but I have to be happy with something for my own use first before I can offer it in good conscience.

[Ginsu Victim]

It's not a simple yes or no answer.

[Neverending Project]

Your likely to get mucho elaboration due to the nature of the topic. It may be better to add a poll if you just want a yes/no answer.

+1

Or better yet, buy one, and decide for yourself.

+1

It's worth the money to try one.  If you end up hating it, I'm sure you can resell to someone and not take a huge loss.  But I'd bet the results of your poll will be positive, in that 'most' enjoy it, even if it can't pass 100 million tech challenges... its fun to actually use.  Besides me I'd say 10+ guests have used it on my arcade and never done any sort of recalibrating.  You need to leave the crosshair on though.  If you would hate that, you might not like them.

+1

I say yes..and I'm glad I bought them..I'm after the fun factor and not the "how close to a nats ass accurate" can it be.

I would recomend them to anyone wanting to play light gun games.

+1

No matter what we say, you are going to need to get one and make your own decision. It seems the light gun topic is one of those can of worms that everyone has their own expectations and opinions.

Oops, I elaborated.

Edit: I'm glad that you think all the prior discussions and debates over the AimTrak are crap. [/sarcasm]

[rbarr110]

I do not own one yet, but have been looking at all the things posted, trying to decide if it is worth buyibg as well.

This is my opinion, based on everything I have read.

The aimtrack works, lets you play light gun games in mame with decent accuracy.  Looks fun and worth the money, but is not a 100% accurate replica of playing the same games in the arcade.

This is my opinion, based on all the complaints of accuracy.

I find it silly that people expect a piece of hardware to emulate with near perfect accuracy of the original arcade setup.  People are playing an EMULATED game that doesnt claim to be 100% accurate in the first place.  If people are so insistant on near perfect emulation and accuracy, buy the original arcade game.

[Beretta]

i dont own one but based on what i've seen (videos) and accounts by people who own one

i'd have to say no.. it's not.

all the videos i see people using it with any real success has them using the cross hair on. not my idea of accuracy when you need a on screen crosshair to aim it.

of course those who are'nt looking for "sight" accuracy this is probably a good solution.


so no i dont think based on what i've seen that it would be a good option for those looking for accuracy.. especially over a range of positions or users.

but what i do think is it has promise and i think that over time it will mature into a good solution if development of it continues which i think will.

but it's not yet the "holy grail" imo.

[Neverending Project]

all the videos i see people using it with any real success has them using the cross hair on. not my idea of accuracy when you need a on screen crosshair to aim it.

I don't play with the crosshair on, and it is my experience that this gun provides excellent accuracy - better than my original videos lead one to believe. In fact when I tried one of the games with the crosshair on (Police Trainer) it made me realize that there was an additional in-game calibration that needed to be done. I was using the lightgun to move the crosshair onto target and my shots were still off! Once I went through the game calibration in the service menu, the crosshair matched up with my shots, and I turned it off. But damn, that's still a hard game.

[SlayerAlex]

i think it beats using a mouse or trackball. So i guess you could say its the BEST!

[bkenobi]

i think it beats using a mouse or trackball. So i guess you could say its the BEST!

Ummm, NO!  There are other guns that are also better than using a mouse or trackball.  If you currently don't have a gun, it sounds like it's a good option.  BUT, a lot of us have guns and want to get better (accuracy, easier to configure, less flukey, etc) ones.  That's the question that a lot of people want answered.  That has been answered before by RandyT's review in one of those monster threads.

To summarize:  If you have nothing and are NOT using a CRT, it's your best option.  If you are using a CRT and have nothing currently, get a GunCon2.

Oh, and I really want these to be awesome, but so far I'm not seeing it.  Hopefully they will improve enough for me to see a benefit in upgrading!

[Neverending Project]

To summarize:  If you have nothing and are NOT using a CRT, it's your best option.  If you are using a CRT and have nothing currently, get a GunCon2.

... according to Randy.

[Hoopz]

For those who just want to ---smurfette---, buy this and all is good.  Yes, I know what it costs.  But for you purists, this is your only option:

http://www.nanotechent.com/opti-gun.php

Me? I've bought from Andy, RandyT, Christian, Divemaster 127, Ponyboy etc.

[YoGaBaR]

I had tried to buy an opti gun, But, got the run around it seems like. Ultimatly I got my money refunded and no opti gun board.

Got the aim trak and it does what I want - and alot cheaper.

[RandyT]

It's not a simple yes or no answer.

+2

Anyone still looking for the definitive answer on this one, hasn't been paying attention.  Yes it's good, as long as you don't push the expectation envelope.  The dirty word in that sentence is "expectation".  If you want it to be better than a LCDTopGun, it both is and isn't.  If you want it to be better than a GunCon, it both is and isn't.  If you want it to be as good or better than the current arcade technology, IMHO, it isn't.  If you have the skills to build it into a gun shell, want to have a fun toy to play with that gets you closer to the screen than the LCDTopGun can, offers decent accuracy when you play by the rules and want something that works with LCD monitors, you'd be foolish not to give it a shot.

I did not vote because I felt that that the options given would be unfair either to the product or the potential user depending on performance expectations.

RandyT

[Ragtag83]

I don't know how accurate the GunCons were on console's, I'm sure it was great from all the games that were made, but for PC use it's quite the challenge. I used every driver option I could find and calibrated who knows how may times and it always lost accuracy at the edges of the screen. Second time calibrating the AimTrak, I lost maybe a millimeter on the edges, granted that's on my laptop screen. The GunCons loved to randomly shoot the corning of the screen instead of where I was aiming. The AimTrak shoots where I point. Now I am not saying the AimTrak is the end all to any other gun solution, but for under $50, I don't see how you can get something better. Maybe it's not the accuracy of the arcade game you are thinking of but it's under $50!  It's fun to use and much much easier to setup than a GunCon onto the PC.  ...and that's my two cents on the subject.

[RandyT]

Now I am not saying the AimTrak is the end all to any other gun solution, but for under $50, I don't see how you can get something better.

Again, it depends on your situation.  The Guncon2 is an actual integrated gun, not just a couple of circuit boards and wires, can be had for half the cost (1/4 if you look a little), and you can use it 6 inches from any size tube screen.  If you don't have spare gun shell, or the what for to install the Aimtrak yourself, or the cash to pay someone else to do it for you, or you want to be closer and you have a tube display, then it's not difficult to understand how you might be able to do better.  Of course the GunCon's also present a number of difficulties in interfacing them with the PC (probably the cause of the erratic behavior you experienced), but some have already jumped this hurdle and are looking at this is an upgrade possibility.

I haven't yet tried the Aimtrak on a little laptop screen, but I'm guessing the experience is different there than on a large tube monitor.  I'm sure the calibration routines fare better and the distances required probably won't be so apparent.  I'll have to give that a go when I get a chance.

As for the OP's motivations for asking this question in the first place, it's a bit silly.  Turnarcades, you are going to be on the "front-line" of support for your products, so if you incorporate the Aimtrak into them, it's going to be your baby.  There's no way anyone here is going to be able to answer the question you are posing.  It's something you will need to assess for yourself, by purchasing one, and using it for a while on the system you plan to offer it with in order to make an educated decision as to what you may or may not be getting into.  You know your customers better than any of us do (I hope) and there's a good possibility they aren't nearly as technical as this group.  They may also not be as forgiving, or as willing to jump through the hoops, as most who pay others to do something for them simply want something that just works.  I'm not saying that this isn't that something, but it's a decision you can't make as a third party to it.  It's only a $50 business investment....suck it up!

RandyT

[BamBam]

It's not a simple yes or no answer.

  Why not?  It's a valid question.  The poor guy, and many others, want a short answer so he can make a decision to buy one or not. I have been sitting on the fence waiting for the short answer too.  I own two ACT Labs Guns, that have yet to work properly so this is important to me too.  I have been trolling through the "other" long post, on this subject, in search of this answer too and thought this post would be of assistance to me.  If you like to hear all of the pros and cons, why not return to the "other" post and leave us simple folks alone 

[BamBam]

i think it beats using a mouse or trackball. So i guess you could say its the BEST!

Ummm, NO!  There are other guns that are also better than using a mouse or trackball.  If you currently don't have a gun, it sounds like it's a good option.  BUT, a lot of us have guns and want to get better (accuracy, easier to configure, less flukey, etc) ones.  That's the question that a lot of people want answered.  That has been answered before by RandyT's review in one of those monster threads.

To summarize:  If you have nothing and are NOT using a CRT, it's your best option.  If you are using a CRT and have nothing currently, get a GunCon2.

Oh, and I really want these to be awesome, but so far I'm not seeing it.  Hopefully they will improve enough for me to see a benefit in upgrading!

That's the kind of feedback we need here.  Thanks 

[Ginsu Victim]

It's not a simple yes or no answer.

  Why not?  It's a valid question.  The poor guy, and many others, want a short answer so he can make a decision to buy one or not. I have been sitting on the fence waiting for the short answer too.  I own two ACT Labs Guns, that have yet to work properly so this is important to me too.  I have been trolling through the "other" long post, on this subject, in search of this answer too and thought this post would be of assistance to me.  If you like to hear all of the pros and cons, why not return to the "other" post and leave us simple folks alone 

Perhaps you missed RandyT's reply to my post. You want a short answer and there isn't one. There are too many caveats when answering it.

[CheffoJeffo]

I can't wait to see all of the people who just wanted a short answer come back bitching and moaning when they can't get it to work the way they want it to.

[Ginsu Victim]

Yeah, I mean, if they see all those votes for YES and, at the moment, zero for NO, they had better not buy based on that alone. You've got BamBam over here saying, "I have been sitting on the fence waiting for the short answer," but a short answer is just not possible.

[FrizzleFried]

I don't want to make yet ANOTHER post on this topic,  but man,  there is a ton of info to mine through.  I think I've decided to go ahead ad build my own... and I've seen one or two gun build threads... is there a general consensus as to which gun is the most cost-effective and easiest to modify for the Aimtrak?   Anyone done any unique mods with real pellet guns or what not?

[Turnarcades]

Yeah, I mean, if they see all those votes for YES and, at the moment, zero for NO, they had better not buy based on that alone. You've got BamBam over here saying, "I have been sitting on the fence waiting for the short answer," but a short answer is just not possible.

Understandable Ginsu, but the poll vote will be enough for me - most people who have bought and voted have experienced and tried to use some other kind of gun technology before, so have a basis for reference. I appreciate that there is no defined answer and everything has a negative side, but if those experienced people are swinging towards 'yes' enough to vote, then I guess I can live with those small flaws.

I managed to get decent calibration with my TopGuns by using the 'shooting outside the four corners' trick, but the reason it sucked was too much IR interference, those unsightly bars and very poor tracking, plus re-calibration was frequently required.

So, if the Aimtrak can be calibrated well by shooting outside the screen as with the TopGuns, but tracks well and doesn't require frequent re-calibration (as I've read) and other's comments are addressed by Andy, I think I'm in. It may mean waiting a month or two before I get one to try, but I think voters so far have enough experience that I can trust their vote, and I certainly wont ---smurfette--- about it if there are a few flaws.

[Ginsu Victim]

Just so you know, I'm one of those who didn't vote because I can't tell you yet whether I recommend it or not. I like mine, but it's too early to give an answer. I definitely lean toward YES more than NO.

[Ummon]

Maybe, instead of a poll, asking for simple, organised points - within a single paragraph or set of less than five hundred words? Perhaps 250? Seriously.

[AndyWarne]

It might seem strange for me to answer this but I am going to try to be as honest as possible.

A few years ago I started looking at lightgun options, but stopped all work when the Guncon drivers came out. The reason I re-started work on this was virtually nobody seemed to be getting good results with the Guncon on a PC. Now I might be wrong about this, and please feel free to correct me on the above.

The AimTrak offers fast response, easy usage, no drivers nor software, and useable close to the screen.

Its extremely accurate following calibration, and will be even more so when I make some changes.

It has a limitation in that it must be used at the same height and screen distance as it was calibrated at.

There will be enhancements to the calibration process. At the moment I am working through the comments on the config utility, starting with tidying up the firmware upgrade process, which is now done, but other issues to look at. Then I will improve the calibration. But, the limitation on moving firing location after calibration will always remain. Its that limitation which is causing the doubt in the comments on the forum. Whether or not this is an issue depends on your method of playing so it introduces some subjectivity.

In the original design phase I assumed that the gun would be generally used at eye level when wanting to aim without crosshairs, thus the same height, and that the user would generally be a similar distance from the screen, as arcade guns are constrained in distance. So I considered the design viable. Whether or not I am right is open to debate, and has been on this forum.

Andy

 

[Ginsu Victim]

The AimTrak offers fast response, easy usage, no drivers nor software, and useable close to the screen.

I know it can be used without the software, but it seems pretty worthwhile to install it (IMHO).

[RandyT]

The AimTrak offers fast response, easy usage, no drivers nor software, and useable close to the screen.

I think there's more subjectivity here than you are considering.  The words "easy" and "close" are also very subjective and need to be carefully considered.  I pretty certain that most don't consider the need for "trick calibration" easy, and if you have a larger monitor, one may not consider the distance required as "close".  "Closer than the LCDTopGun", definitely.  Close in the terms of a GunCon, not even "close"

The first you can probably address with some updated firmware, or heaven forbid, a separate calibration app.  The second one is alway going to vary based on what the user finds acceptable, unless you change the design a bit.

It has a limitation in that it must be used at the same height and screen distance as it was calibrated at.

It also doesn't seem to correct very well for tilt around the Z axis.  For good accuracy (note that I did not use the word acceptable) the user really needs to, at all times during use,  hold the gun almost exactly as they did when calibrating.  This is another subjective issue that may or not be important to a potential user.  But I personally have seen the effects of forgetting to do this while playing.

So there are a few more considerations than simply height and distance that need to be considered.  I think it's a nifty gizmo, and it's fun, but I am reluctant to compare it favorably to the technology used in the arcades.  It more closely resembles the technology used in the JAKKS Big Buck Hunter TV game, but with the benefit of USB compatibility.

RandyT

[swamprat96]

I for one am surprised that anyone has got satisfactory performance out of a guncon2. I persevered for almost a month with these using a Nanao 29" monitor with an overhauled chassis and two guncon2.  I thin k I knew what I was doing and I did have partial success but

1. I could never get the tracking accurate - particularly at the edge of the screens
2. I had varied results with different games. Anything with a white or bright background just sucked
3. In the end to make it work I used a dual input graphics card and plugged the guns into one and the monitor output into another. It was tricky and the software (both winguns and smogs) had issues with calibrating. I only ever had moderate success with the wingun software- which is no longer supported.
4. I did get both guns working but not accurate

I gave up and went topgun 2. This worked way better but as Turneracades says - has ugly led bars (that don't work through any kind of angled glass- 90 degress clear is ok) and you have to stand way too far back. I've already broken one topgun trigger so for me not a permanent solution.

Andy your product sounds like the best option available today. The calibration does sound a little odd but if it cures the distance issue then it will do for me

[Turnarcades]

As the basic technology is sound but the Z-axis problem exists due to the lone sensor, would making the kit with dual sensor bars bring the product to the level we expect, or is it the case that the reason it works well (although with the 'same height' limit) is because it uses one sensor bar?

i.e. is the single sensor bar design trading good accuracy for user comfort? If that's the case - will this technology concept ever work well?

[Ragtag83]

As far as I am concerned this gun is the best above all other options. Perfect? No. But I want to play the lightgun games through my PC so I am willing to put up with any shortcomings, though I currently find them minimal. My biggest complaint thus far has nothing to do with accuracy but wiring P1-P5. Never did get them all to work but enough for my needs. I don't recommend trying to solder them in with a cheap Walmart soldering iron... It will only end with frustration and weeping.

[GuyDanger]

Anyone know where I can get one pre-assembled? I just want to play the damn thing. (Oh, My college memories of playing virtua cop 2 with my best bud in between classes at the school bar and grill!)

[Turnarcades]

Anyone know where I can get one pre-assembled? I just want to play the damn thing. (Oh, My college memories of playing virtua cop 2 with my best bud in between classes at the school bar and grill!)

Nowhere yet - the hardware is on trial first, and the ready-integrated systems are currently being worked on.

[Hoopz]

Anyone know where I can get one pre-assembled? I just want to play the damn thing. (Oh, My college memories of playing virtua cop 2 with my best bud in between classes at the school bar and grill!)

Nowhere yet - the hardware is on trial first, and the ready-integrated systems are currently being worked on.

It's not on trial.  It works.  No one has said any differently.