Getting ready to start...need opinions please

[ffingers]

Let me start by saying I am VERY excited to be doing this. I saw MAME many, many years ago and I am pretty sure I installed it way back when and played some old arcade games with my my keyboard. At the time, I thought it would be awesome to build a cab as it was starting to become pretty common on the web. Alas, I was young, broke, and stupid and it never happened.

Fast forward to today, I am married and just had my first son. I told my wife last week, I think I want to build an arcade cab for video games and stick it in our garage (until we have a dedicated game room  )....her response...."okay"....I was shocked. So here I am....obsessively lurking and reading everything I can about cabinet building.

Onto the questions....

As to the design, I am fairly certain I am going to base mine off someone else's base design and tweak it a bit. I am decent when it comes to building things and I like more curves than blocky, but that's for another time.

I determined that I am going to use a 27" TV. Although an arcade monitor would be ideal, I plan on still accessing the computer side of the MAME box occasionally for updating, music, etc. and I understand arcade monitors are not the most "computer user-friendly."

1. First question, is it really that important to remove the TV from the housing and use just the tube? Or is it merely a space issue? Also, is there any place to go (easier than just googling) to find if the TV has the power restore function?

I have an old AMD Athlon 1800+ with 1.2 GB of RAM that I am going to use. It needs a new HDD as the one in there is old and slow, but that should be fine right? Before I start building, I am going to get the computer running with all the software, frontend, ROMS, etc. So I guess I'll know soon enough (just reformatted her last night).

My BIGGEST thing I have been wrestling with and what I need the most help on is the control panel.

I am a huge fighter fan (SF, MK, SNK, CAPCOM, etc.)...so I know that will likely be the BULK of my playing. That being said, I also love me some old games like Ghouls n' Goblins, TMNT, Tron, etc.....I am very much on the fence as to the configuration of my CP.

I really want to put four players on it for games like TMNT. I have friends and in-laws that I think would love the four-player. That immediately makes the CP large (I plan on doing a wrap-around type CP). So now I am at a larger CP.  I don't know if I should add the spinner, ball, and analog sticks? I don't like the look of the franken panels, but in the same respect, I don't want to limit myself in playability.

So....how much am I limiting myself if I DON'T add in a analog 4-way stick and dedicated buttons for it. What games other than Tron use the spinner (I know there are a few, can't remember off-hand). Can I get away with a comp 8-way used for a 4-way game?

What would I be losing out on if I did only the typical fighter controls and MAYBE a spinner and ball.

Thanks, looking forward to many questions and posting my progress!

[shponglefan]

Hi ffingers,

Welcome to the forums!  I'm in the same boat as you (designing my first cab and not wanting to go overboard) so maybe I can help based on what I've researched.

My plan is to have detachable control panel tops.  One panel with two 8-ways, a spinner and a dedicated 4-way.  The other panel with have three 8-ways for multi-player games.  Four player would be nice, but too large for my purposes.  Plus I can always build additional panel tops in the future (i.e. for flightsticks, yokes, etc).

For joysticks, I used to have a 2-player control panel with 8-way sticks, and found that 8-ways are not that ideal for 4-way games (i.e. Pac-man, Frogger, etc).  One option is to use Ultrastik 360s for your joysticks.  They can be programmed to be analog, 8-way, 4-way, or 2-way.  Haven't used one myself, but people here seem to love them.  The other option is a dedicated 4-way.  That's the route I plan to take, because I like having a joystick more in the center of the panel for single-player games.  But that's just me.

For spinner games, see this list here.  In addition to "true" spinner games, games that use a 360 degree wheel can also benefit from a spinner.  GroovyGameGear actually makes a spinner with the option of a mini driving wheel.  I plan to utilize that because I want something to play Championship Sprint.  But that's just me.

Good luck with your design!

[ffingers]

Thanks for the welcome.

In between writing I was doing more reading...i will probably be reading forever 

I think I am going to go with a 2P CP now....it seems there are few games that are truly 4P....and among those, I am sure friends would want to play other games. If  get a big desire for 4P once I make it, like from my nephews and stuff, I can always build another CP and add two more players.

Right now, the cab is going to reside in the garage so I doubt I'll have four people huddled in my garage playing TMNT (although I had secretly hoped it would happen  )

So I guess my real question now lies in sticks. I am a very big fighter fan and, if I remember correctly, the old SFII sticks had the clicking to them. I like the stiffness of fighting sticks with a quick return to center. From what I read, the U360 with the octagonal restrictor is okay for fighting and for most analog games, but some people had issues with the return to center and stiffness. I am thinking if I really want a fun fighting experience, mostly SF, MK, SNK, etc....I will have to go with the Happs comp.

I guess could put a single U360 in the center with the restrictor plate and that would work for 4/8/analog games right?

Am I correct in assuming that most 4/2/analog games are single player...or at least alternating. There are many games that require simultaneous 4/2/analog are there? I mean a single "multi-use" stick would suffice for those games correct?

If that's the case, I am really leaning towards 2P, six/seven buttons (btw...what is the 7th typically for), one "multi-use" U360, one spinner and maybe a trackball??? Pretty universal?

[shponglefan]

For 4 player games, you could always add a couple wireless gamepads to the mix.  Then you'd have the option for playing up to 4-players at a time without having to build a control panel specifically for it.

Can't comment on the Comp sticks as I haven't tried them.  I currently use Happ Super sticks and they are okay, if a little touchy on the diagonals at times.  I know that some people have had issues with the 360, but from what I've read you can get optional stiffer springs as well as widen the "dead zone" via software.

For 4-way joystick games, there's a big list here.  Personally I've never had a need for two 4-way joysticks for 2-player simultaneous games.

Your setup sounds pretty good and will cover off most arcade games.  The 7 button layouts are based on a hybrid Neo-Geo/Capcom layout.  It gives you the option of 4 buttons in a row for Neo Geo games and two rows of 3 buttons for Capcom games.

[Ginsu Victim]

I know that some people have had issues with the 360

That should read, "Most everyone who owns U360s LOVE THEM.....and then there are the microscopic amount of people who nitpick them."

[ffingers]

ginsu....i know...i read your opinions on the U360 review thread...like i said, i have been doing quite a bit of reading today instead of doing work.... 

after doing yet more reading, i think i am going to base the cab after the Neon Mame done by knievel....i really like the over all look and it's really clean...i don't want the neon holes or the light up buttons, but rather just the cab design....

i also like his CP layout....i think i am going to go with a version of that....go with two joys with seven buttons (thanks shpongle...if figured the seventh was the neo-geo layout but i wasn't sure....i am obviously very used to the capcom layout...although i did like neo's as well)....go with a track ball....a spinner....a dedicated 4-way and either two or three buttons for the 4-way....probably three just to be on the safe side...although i can't think of a 4-way three button game off the op of my head....blah...haha....

ginsu....as for the U360s....i didn't mean issues like they are bad...just that if you are a fighting nut, they may not be "optimal"....i saw that you could add the stiffer springs...would that help enough to get the snap back that i am looking for....

i am thinking a U360 with the octagonal restrictor would be fine for 4-way/2-way/4-way diagonal...yes???

i guess my last question is analog play...i am assuming the single U360 with octagonal restrictor would be fine for analog games as well yes?

if so...i think i have my CP layout in my head and ready to get drawn up....i will decide components later and pick your guys brains for that one when i get there....

it's time to see exactly how my "old" cpu will handle the roms and see if i need to update it all....plus i need to get a tv before i can figure out dimensions of the cab....

any other tips to keep in mind at this point?

[Ginsu Victim]

My post wasn't even directed at you, and I was just joking around anyway because it's expected that if there is a mention of the U360 anywhere on these forums, that severdhed or myself must pimp them no matter what.

[ffingers]

lol..sorry ginsu...wasn't being snide....(i did think you were commenting on my comment though, sorry)....

i am just really in the dark about the controls...i would love some more info....

from what i can tell...the U360s are great 'overall' sticks....IF i were to use them with the 8-way restrictor plate, it seems like they would be okay for fighting from what people say....my only question is, is there a better 8-way that is better suited for fighting, i.e., better snap back and responsiveness.....so in that respect, are the happ comps better for fighting as some have suggested (seriously a total noob here and just trying to figure things out)

also...another question....if you get the U360, it connects via USB correct? i am assume you don't need an IPAC then?? what about the buttons....i thought i saw they wire to the U360? if i were to use all 360s, then would i not even need an ipac at all, just wire all my buttons to the U360s? what about 1P buttons, coins (if i add them), etc....??

[shponglefan]

any other tips to keep in mind at this point?

To echo what someone else told me: you're first controller probably won't be your last (or best).  So basically don't worry too much about getting it right the first time.  If you build a prototype controller, you can use that to test out various types of joysticks, etc, before deciding on the final version.

Also, the 360's can support up to 8 buttons.  You'll probably still an IPac or some other controller for additional buttons (esp. admin buttons).

[Epyx]

To echo what someone else told me: you're first controller probably won't be your last (or best).

Nor will your 2nd...or 3rd necessarily

My first were two X-Arcade sticks, then Mag Stik, competition and now JLWs.

The Mag stik is my least favourite and the x arcade and comp sticks are about on par (imo...) I am hoping I like the JLWs.

[ffingers]

well i am going to try my best to make this a good one because i doubt after i get into this, the wife will be too happy...lol....

right now, i don't have room for multiple cabs....but when i move i may do another cab thats dedicated to the oldies....like i said, i think i am going to base it off Neon Mame, i like the CP layout and it looks like it would work well for what i want to do...

just realized though my old CPU crawls when i run MK3 and hyperspin looks like garbage because the proc is underpowered...so it looks like i'll be shopping for a new base cpu to run this off of...arghhh...an expense i didn't want to have...oh wel....

[Endaar]

I'm one of the "nitpickers." 

The U360 with the octagonal restrictor is very good with pretty much everything OTHER than analog. In order not to lose the ability to hit the corners in analog mode, you'll have to seriously reduce the range in which the joystick responds. Things work fine; it just gives you a very narrow range of physical motion within which to work.

Endaar

[ammitz]

any other tips to keep in mind at this point?

To echo what someone else told me: you're first controller probably won't be your last (or best).  So basically don't worry too much about getting it right the first time.  If you build a prototype controller, you can use that to test out various types of joysticks, etc, before deciding on the final version.

Also, the 360's can support up to 8 buttons.  You'll probably still an IPac or some other controller for additional buttons (esp. admin buttons).

Well actually, one of the buttons can be programmed to a shift button, and then you have 15 different buttons rather than 8. And then you would get a cleaner looking CP to!

[ffingers]

endaar - what do you suggest then for analog games.....

i am about 85% sure i want to go with true 8-ways for the main two controls because i will be playing mostly fighters as that was my big genre growing up...therefore, likely happ comps...(plus i live in IL where happ is located )....

i have determined i will add a spinner...likely a tornado because they are small, a trackball, a few buttons for classic games and a "classic" joystick...

for the classic...i am very very torn....i would love suggestions...i would like to have the best all-around stick for 4way/diag/2way and analog....IF possible...

i understand that having more controls would be best, but let's just assume i am going for the best case scenario...thoughts?

[Endaar]

I personally ended up with Happ Comps as my primary sticks, plus a Happ 4-way top-fire and a U360 without any restrictor for analog. The 4-way works fine for anything 2-way, and Q-Bert can be programmed to work properly on the Comps or the U360. There are probably better 4-way sticks, but my wife wanted the top-fire and it works fine for our purposes.

I've also got a TT2 spinner and a U-Trak, both of which work great.

Endaar

[ffingers]

so you have both a 4-way and a U360 up top....and a spinner....i was trying to only have a single stick up top with the spinner....do you have  any pics of your CP...i am curious to see how you laid it out...