Control Interface GPWiz vs KeyWiz vs iPac

[phanophish]

I'm in the planning stages of a MAME build and am looking for some advice on control interfaces.  I understand what most of the marketing/features for the various control interfaces means, but I have no idea if any of it matters.  Are there any of the control interfaces that are really better than the other for building a control panel? 

I'm planning to go with the TurboTwist spinner and  Electric ICE-T trackballs so don't need a separate spinner/trackball interface correct?  So then which control inter=face is the way to go.  Price seems within $5-10 and I care much more about functionality and ease of use.

Thanks in advance for the recommendations!

[Ryglore]

As far as the trackball and spinner go, you can hook them both up to the same opti-wiz interface. Since the opti-wiz allows for up to 3 separate optical devices to be connected to it.

As far as the KeyWiz vs Ipac I am wondering the same thing. At this point I am planning on of using the Ipac2 for my control interface but it doesn't seem like the two really differ...

[Endaar]

Both the TT spinner and the trackball have USB interfaces, so you don't need the OptiWiz. I can't really help with the encoder choice; I personally went with an IPAC 4 which does what it's supposed to.

[mwong168]

Based on what I have read about the IPAC4 I don't think you can go wrong with it or what RandyT from GGG is offering.  I went with:

KeyWiz40-ST (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_80&products_id=303)
GP Wiz40-MAX (http://groovygamegear.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=76_81&products_id=235)

Since my control panel is a 4 player control panel or 5 player if you count my dedicated 4 way stick.  As for the TurboTwist spinner and Electric ICE-T which both comes with it's own interface which can be either PS2 or USB.  Just make sure when you are placing the order you pay attention to the USB Device Number pull down menu for the TT and ICE-T.

[phanophish]

Do they both use the same encoder so I need to be sure that I order the trackball with a different USB ID than the spinner?

[mwong168]

This is how I ordered mine all my USB interfaced with ID #1 including Optiwiz and TT.  I'll give you an example that will hopefully clarify things because I asked RandyT via email.

For example, if I was going to use two GP Wiz40 which are USB interface, I would order one with USB ID #1 and the other with USB ID #2.  Let say I have a TT2, I would order that with USB ID #1.  The USB ID #'s only become important if you are having multiples of the same controller.  Unfortunatelly I think they are hard coded and not something you can change via jumper so make sure you double check with Randy if you are unsure with what you have added in the shopping cart.

Good luck.

[Apophis]

I am new to this too and planning my build.  What is the purpose of the dedicated 4 way joystick and the spinner?  Are they just provided for games that require them or do they serve a different purpose for navigation through menus, volume control, etc...

[mwong168]

I am new to this too and planning my build.  What is the purpose of the dedicated 4 way joystick and the spinner?  Are they just provided for games that require them or do they serve a different purpose for navigation through menus, volume control, etc...

The 4 way stick is good for games like Pac-man which don't require diagonals and the spinner I use for Arkanoid and I am debating on getting the mini 5" steering wheel attachment from RandyT at groovygamegear.com to use the spinner with games like Super Sprint or Ironman's Offroad Racing.

[Apophis]

Will games like Pac-man not work with an 8 way joystick or is that they just work better with a 4 way?

[mwong168]

Will games like Pac-man not work with an 8 way joystick or is that they just work better with a 4 way?

It will work with 8-way but I believe it will play better with a 4-way.  I had the room for it on my control panel and cost-wise it didn't break the bank either.

[DashRendar]

Will games like Pac-man not work with an 8 way joystick or is that they just work better with a 4 way?

It will work, but you might notice some sluggishness in the controls.

So, an 8-way stick grid is:

1  2  3

4  0  5

6  7  8

(so movement would be 1 = upper left, 2 = up, 3 = upper right, etc, and 0 = no signal)


While a 4-way stick grid would be:

0  1  0

2  0  3

0  4  0

(again, 0 = no signal so no movement)

So if you point the stick at say 10 o'clock, it will register as a move to the left on a 4-way stick.  Pointing it at 10 o'clock on an 8-way stick might make it register as a diagonal movement, which ignored since that's not a valid movement for that game.

This is one of the reasons why people put restrictor plates in, to keep the joystick from slipping and registering a direction that the game doesn't support.

[u_rebelscum]

The three encoders you listed are pretty much equal in general gaming, but there are small details that might make a difference, mostly if you start going outside of mame.  Most of the technical differences can't be seen by the user.

For mame, the Keywiz and Ipac are keyboard encoders.  The GPwiz is a gamepad encoder.  In most cases, mame treats keyboards and gamepads the same, but there is one area where mame doesn't.  Mame imposes a "joystick_map" on the direction axes of gamepad type devices, and not on keyboards.  You might see a small diference on 4-way game like pacman, as mame converts the direction inputs to 4-way earlier in gamepad devices (more details below).  But you'll see the biggest difference in qbert (a rotated 4-way joystick game); keyboard encoder can do the normal in game remap so the diagonals work as the user expects, but since mame converts gamepad diagonals earlier, this why won't work.  Instead, the -joystick_map option will need to be used.  (Thread with more details)

Outside of mame, some old emus prefer keyboard inputs, others like gamepads.  And many retail games can't split a keyboard to two players (street fighter IV and all EA games come to mind).  You can't split one gamepad or use two different keyboard encoder either, but two gpwizes will work great for these games.  More $$ of corse to get two gpwizes, and if you're onlly maming, one of any will be fine.



As for dedicated 4-ways, there are a few reasons.  Dedicated 4-ways are physically restricted from hitting the diagonals, usually have a shorter throw, and "feel better" for 4-way game.  While 8-way joysticks will work, depending on how mame is emulating the game and which type (keyboard vs gamepad) encoder, you might run into few control problems.  Hanging on the ladders in donkey kong, not turning when you want in pacman, accidentally turning too earily in pacman are the ones that come to mind. 

The reason I say depends is that DashRender listed one of the conditions: mame emulating a game as an 8-way when the game was a 4-way.  And it's not technically right.  Id say the grids look as follows:

8-way:
UL  U  UR

L   0   R

DL  D  DR

4-way:
x   U   x

L   0   R

x   D   x

with "0" as "no signal", and "x" as "not supposed to be possible".  Notice how the 8-way sends both Up and Left singals at the same time for the upleft diagonal.  A 4-way game doesn't expect to get Up and Left at the same time, which is what a diagonal is.  When it does get it, the game might treat it as centered, treat it like nothing happened, go the new direction, or "stick" until centered.

To help mame and players, if mame knows it's a 4-way joystick input, mame won't send both Up and Left; instead mame decided to send one or the other.  IIRC, with gamepads, it continues sending the direction sent before both were pressed; with keyboards mame sends the newer of the two.  (As mentioned near top, one of the small differences in mame between the encoders.)


Hope I didn't get too technical.  And blame Dash for alerting me to this thread.

[DashRendar]

Hope I didn't get too technical.  And blame Dash for alerting me to this thread.

I knew I was a little off, had to call in the experts to clarify. 

Regarding doing a dedicated 4-way vs using an 8-way stick, you might want to take a look at the u360 stick.  It bypasses the need for a keyboard encoder (KeyWiz or IPAC).  Instead it can connect direct to your PC via a USB cable.  It supports having the buttons connect to the joystick itself, rather than through an encoder.

The sticks are pricy, but you save money on not needing to buy an encoder.  It's also easier to set up.  Oh, the best part-

"No need for any other stick as the UltraStik can operate in ANY mode, 4-way, 8-way, 2-way, 45 degree mode or any special mode you wish to define."

So you can create a map for Qbert (rotated 4-way), a map for Pac Man (4-way), and so on.  No need to have extra dedicated sticks or mess with switches and changing out restrictor plates.