What's the different between an 8-way restrictor and an octagonal restrictor?

[GaryMcT]

. . for the JLW and Ultrastik 360 in particular.  Do you know of any diagrams that show the range of motion for both of these?

Thanks!
Gary

[Kman-Sweden]

Well a 8way might be round and the Octagonal has "corners" that makes it easier to "feel" the diagonals....

[GaryMcT]

Well a 8way might be round and the Octagonal has "corners" that makes it easier to "feel" the diagonals....

A round restrictor would be round, right, not an 8-way?

Since the 8-way restrictor is square, does it leave you with the motion of a circle, but with some corners in the diagonals?  While the octagonal one is strictly octagonal?

I'm trying to figure all this out so that I can be smart about what I'm ordering to go with my Ultrastiks.  The restrictors are expensive enough that I don't want to order both options for both joysticks if I can help it.

[Ginsu Victim]

Round are 8-way, there just aren't any corners to feel.
Square, aka 4-way/8-way, and have a very square feeling with definite corners.
Octagonal gives you slight corners, enough to know for sure you're pressing the direction properly.

Keep in mind with the U360, you can map it so the round can be 8, 4, 2, 49-ways, analog, or whatever way you want.

I prefer the round over the square. I have my frontend set to change the map so that I'm using the proper setup for each game, no matter how many directions the stick needs to go.

[mj147]

It all boils down to preference.

When I ordered my Sanwa sticks I got the round plates and didnt like them at all.

I needed to "feel" the corners 

Hope I dont add to your confusion


mj147

[GaryMcT]

I'm going to go ahead and order two of each set so that I don't have to place another order once I figure out what I want.   I'll just sell the ones that I don't end up using when I'm done.

thanks for the help!
Gary

[Ginsu Victim]

Just a word of warning from LizardLick.com in regards to the octagonal:

Achieve 8-way nirvana with your JLF series (only) joystick by swapping out the restrictor plate with this "cornerless" one.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I think the octagonal restrictors are the best all-around solution for physically restricting a stick.
You get tactile feedback on all 8 positions, unlike the 0 positions for the round, and 4 positions (the 4 corners) on the square restrictors.

You also get a more even distribution of the 8 positions.
The round restrictor gives you this same benefit, but most square restrictors are heavily biased to the diagonal inputs.

The only games where I really don't like the octagonal restrictor are games like Time Pilot, where you run the joystick around the perimeter all the time.
Those games feel better to me with a round restrictor.

[GaryMcT]

I think the octagonal restrictors are the best all-around solution for physically restricting a stick.
You get tactile feedback on all 8 positions, unlike the 0 positions for the round, and 4 positions (the 4 corners) on the square restrictors.

You also get a more even distribution of the 8 positions.
The round restrictor gives you this same benefit, but most square restrictors are heavily biased to the diagonal inputs.

The only games where I really don't like the octagonal restrictor are games like Time Pilot, where you run the joystick around the perimeter all the time.
Those games feel better to me with a round restrictor.

Thanks for the info.  From everything I've heard, it sounds like I'm going to like no restrictor, round restrictor, or octagonal.  The square one just sounds weird unless you are using it for 4-way.

[Ginsu Victim]

If you're using the U360s, you might find the throw distance to be too far without any restriction. Round or octagonal...can't really go wrong with those.

[GaryMcT]

If you're using the U360s, you might find the throw distance to be too far without any restriction. Round or octagonal...can't really go wrong with those.

Sweet. . in that case I'm covered since I bought one of each for each joystick.   I got the hard (used to be medium) spring as well with the ball top.  I'm hoping I don't need the longer stick since I didn't order that.  I'm top mounting it, so it shouldn't be necessary I hope.

[Ginsu Victim]

You won't need the longer shaft since you're top mounting.

[GaryMcT]

After playing many games at Ground Kontrol the last couple of days, I'm pretty sure that no restrictor or the round restrictor is going to work great for me on the U360 for nearly all games except possibly pacman/ms. pacman.  I may end up getting a special stick for pacman that is the 45 degree rotated square like the pacman joystick.  This is all theory until I get my controls in.

On a related note, I was surprised to find that Robotron/Smash TV have effectively round restrictors. I figured they would have pronounced diagonals. 

[NoOne=NBA=]

On a related note, I was surprised to find that Robotron/Smash TV have effectively round restrictors. I figured they would have pronounced diagonals. 

They are actually tougher to play with square restrictors.
On a square restrictor, you get a lot more shots going into the diagonal than the true directions, when you spin the stick around its perimeter.
On a round restrictor, you will get a roughly equal number of shots to each direction.

[GaryMcT]

On a related note, I was surprised to find that Robotron/Smash TV have effectively round restrictors. I figured they would have pronounced diagonals. 

They are actually tougher to play with square restrictors.
On a square restrictor, you get a lot more shots going into the diagonal than the true directions, when you spin the stick around its perimeter.
On a round restrictor, you will get a roughly equal number of shots to each direction.

This is actually really good news for me.  I think I'm at the point now where I'm going to use U360s with round restrictors for all my control panels.  The only exception would be a U360 with a 45-degree rotate square restrictor for Pacman on my vertical machine in the center.  I need to see if that's even necessary though.

I picked up some JLWs to see if I'd want to use those for a Smash TV config control panel. . . I really think that the U360's are worth it for all of 'em!

[TheShanMan]

As I've suggested to you before, go with a mag stik plus (or some other 4 way stick) for 4 way games if you want a dedicated stick. The U360 would be overkill for that IMO, particularly given the price. The strength of the U360 is its flexibility, so if you have a dedicated 4 way U360, you've just eliminated its strength.

[Ginsu Victim]

You really don't need a U360 for dedicated 4-way. That's a waste of a good stick. (ShanMan beat me to it)

[GaryMcT]

I don't really like the feel of the microswitches in joysticks that use 'em compared to a U360.  Can you recommend 4 or 8-way sticks that are optical or otherwise that are cheaper than a U360?

[GaryMcT]

Come to think of it, I did buy the microswitches from GGG that are adjustable so that you can tweak them to be quiet.  I haven't even looked yet to see if these are compatible with the JLW.  I need to do that. . . .

I was surprised to see that Tornado Terry's Ms. Pacman stick uses microswitches.  I figured it would be a more accurate replica of the old ones.

[Falkentyne]

Don't the Competition (IL) sticks have very light diagonal feel, (actuator is square, but not really a restrictor) but with a nice range of center-diagonal?

[GaryMcT]

Played the sped up version of Ms. Pac-Man tonight with the U360.  I'm yet another fan of the heavy (used to be medium) springs and the circular restrictor, even for a 4-way game like Ms. Pac-Man.  If I were strictly playing that game, I might opt for the 4-way restrictor, but the circular one is so good and also so general, that I'm likely to never bother with a dedicated 4-way.  Of course this isn't entirely final yet since I don't have the stick attached to anything.  Had to get my wife to hold it down so that I could try it without having to hold it with my left hand.

I haven't tried the octagonal restrictor yet.

Also, the only way I could ever see it being used with no restrictor is if you are only playing analog games. . would still need the heavier springs though.

And another thing, I'm really glad you don't have to put the original stuff back on when putting restrictors on.  Those screws that are blocked by the brackets are a pain to deal with.   I wonder why it doesn't come with the restrictor hardware (minus the restrictor) in the first place?  Cost?  Was designed and manufactured before the restrictor setup was planned out?

EDIT: Should also mention that centering/calibration has been an issue for me on both sticks so far.  I defaulted the windows control panel settings, etc., and the center is still off.  Do folks just end up using the control panel or Mame to calibrate?

[LeedsFan]

I been reading this thread with interest. I'm currently building a bartop for vertical games only. I'm only going to be needing a joystick for 4/8 way and I'm very much leaning towards the U360. The automatic mapping system will allow me to play Q-Bert and Congo Bongo where other sticks won't.

I think I will try the Octagonal restrictor for this bartop this time. I have a panel with 2x U360s which have circular restrictors. They work fine for all games, but there's no "feel" if you know what I mean. Is it just a case of personal preference between round/octagonal then?

[GaryMcT]

I been reading this thread with interest. I'm currently building a bartop for vertical games only. I'm only going to be needing a joystick for 4/8 way and I'm very much leaning towards the U360. The automatic mapping system will allow me to play Q-Bert and Congo Bongo where other sticks won't.

I think I will try the Octagonal restrictor for this bartop this time. I have a panel with 2x U360s which have circular restrictors. They work fine for all games, but there's no "feel" if you know what I mean. Is it just a case of personal preference between round/octagonal then?

I'll try octagonal tomorrow and post results. I really need to get the stick mounted in sonething!! 

[Ginsu Victim]

Do folks just end up using the control panel or Mame to calibrate?

Do not use the Windows calibration for the sticks. They automatically calibrate on start-up. There may now be registry settings you'll have to change if you did use the gamepad calibration.

Edit:
From Ultimarc:
Calibration
The UltraStik 360 requires no calibration. In Analog mode, the setting of "dead zone" in MAME and also any calibration of gamepad joysticks in Windows, will affect the stick, so if you get any strange behaviour, check these are set to default settings.

[TheShanMan]

Ditto what Ginsu said. The windows control panel thing has a "reset" button as I recall, and I think that's all you have to do. The U360's self calibrate when they power up, so the only thing to keep in mind is not to grab the stick when powering up.

Gary, if you decide not to keep the octagonals, I'd be interested in buying them off of you (assuming you have 2). I have a suspicion I'd like them more than round, but don't want to pay all that money for 2 when my hunch might prove to be false. PM me if you're willing to sell them at a good discount over Ultimarc's price.

[GaryMcT]

Gary, if you decide not to keep the octagonals, I'd be interested in buying them off of you (assuming you have 2). I have a suspicion I'd like them more than round, but don't want to pay all that money for 2 when my hunch might prove to be false. PM me if you're willing to sell them at a good discount over Ultimarc's price.

Someone else is already in the queue for them if I don't end up wanting them.  I'll put you second in line.

Thanks!
Gary