GaryMcT's 2-player generic control panel layout

[GaryMcT]

Yup, I'm rambling to myself again.

If I were to make a panel for Stargate (and Defender implicitly since it's a subset), what else could I put on there without being too nuts?  I've seen a bunch of Multiwilliams control panels. . much of what they are for are covered by my main control panel.  Think a trackball or spinner could fit on there somehow?  May have to start drawing that up and leave this first one like it is in the last drawing.

Waiting on the magnet from Ultimarc to show up so that I can fix my second U360 and start getting some folks from work to come over and playtest!

[Bender]

to shoten the u360 just don't route out as much material, or any form the bottom, and you should be all set

[GaryMcT]

to shoten the u360 just don't route out as much material, or any form the bottom, and you should be all set

I wasn't thinking. I figured that out after I posted. .

I would just use a JLW with a 2-way restrictor from lizardlick, but I think the switches are in the way of modding it for the button to be close. Need to look at it and see if this is the case for the up-down switches sine I don't need left/right. 

A U360 is an awfully expensive and abut finicky for a 2-way stick.

[GaryMcT]

Looks like the switches are definitely in the way.  I'll probably just stick with a U360 then to make things easier.

[Bender]

yeah, then you won't have the clicky clicky's either

The U360 is so smooooooooooth

[GaryMcT]

Hmmm, need to look for a smaller U360-friendly balltop too.  If this is going to be a modern take on a Stargate control panel, might as well not mess around!

[Bender]

lizard lick has em about 3/4 the way down the page siemitsu 30mm balltops. no pics though

[GaryMcT]

I already ordered one from them!!  Also ordered a 2-way restrictor and another dust washer since I broke one of mine.

Went ahead and ordered another U360 for this which I'll use for it's magnet for one of my current ones in the short term until the magnet shows up in the mail from Andy.  I'm going to hold off on ordering the buttons for this yet.  I may end up getting a JROK board for when I'm playing Stargate/Defender.  I figure if I'm going to swap the control panel to play it, might as well!  I can probably wire up my generic panel to play the rest of the Williams games as well.  Those games are worth it to me to have them right, ie. right refresh rate, less audio latency, etc.

[Encryptor]

GaryMcT,

Have you figured out which restrictors you prefer yet?


Encryptor

[GaryMcT]

GaryMcT,

Have you figured out which restrictors you prefer yet?


Encryptor

Not sure yet.  Probably the circular ones though.

[GaryMcT]

The JLW/J-Stick is pretty nice with a circular restrictor!  Giong to have to get more of those at some point for a Smash TV control panel.  They would be pretty much perfect if you only want 8-way if there were a joystick-friendly version of Groovy Game Gear's Micro-Leaf siwtches.

Started Sketchup-ing the Stargate control panel so that I can print it out and compare to the original Defender panel so that I can make sure that the measurements are right.  Once I'm done I'll post the sketchup file since there seem to be varying Defender control panel measurements in all the places that I've looked.

[GaryMcT]

I successfully dissected my Wells Gardner d9500 that died recently to send the chassis off for repair (under warranty).  I'm still alive. . no shocking involved.

By the way, those Wells Gardner guys are really awesome to deal with. . felt like I was dealing with a very personal company while talking through the problem with them on the phone.

[GaryMcT]

I finally hooked up my admin buttons to the IPAC.  Now I really need to finish my code mod to Mame to make shift buttons work across multiple devices.  The joysticks and game buttons are all through the U360s, and the admin buttons are through the IPAC4.

[Bender]

As much as want that shift function updated in mame....

I just had an idea you could double wire the buttons you want shifted(and the shift button) to the Ipac and shift them that way without having to anything on the software side, assuming you have enough room on the the Ipac

that way you'd have key strokes and gamepad inputs to the same buttons

[bkenobi]

If you do that, you need to have a diode installed on each input.  If you don't, you will cause problems with your controls.

[GaryMcT]

I'm going to stick with modding Mame since I'm pretty far along with it, and it would be helpful to others.

It's actually interesting to see if I can fit all the shifted functions that I need just on the 4 buttons at the top (would be 5, but I don't want to use "exit" as a shifted button! )

[Bender]

If you do that, you need to have a diode installed on each input.  If you don't, you will cause problems with your controls.

how's that?

[bkenobi]

I'm assuming you were suggesting Gary use 2 controls connected to a single button so that when the button is pressed, both controls are actuated.  I use this to get extra buttons on my GP-WizRX.  I need 28 buttons and with the RX, I lose 6 for the rotary controls.  So, to get them back, I have a couple admin buttons set to P2Up+P2Down and P2Left+P2Right.  Works fine!

To make that work, I have both inputs wired to one side of the switch and the ground on the other.  I put diodes on the 2 inputs so they don't screw with each.  There's a guide on GGG (among other places) on how to make shifted inputs work on the GP-Wiz.

here's the GGG guide:
http://groovygamegear.com/page13.html

[Bender]

ahhh, I see what your saying

I was talking about something different

using the ipac (keystrokes) for Mame and the U360 (gamepad) for PC games (SFIV). Same buttons on the CP, but different inputs into the computer.

I'm going to stick with modding Mame since I'm pretty far along with it, and it would be helpful to others.

It's actually interesting to see if I can fit all the shifted functions that I need just on the 4 buttons at the top (would be 5, but I don't want to use "exit" as a shifted button! )

Gary, it would be way cleaner to do it through software and it would be great for the community

[GaryMcT]

I don't like how a shifted fast-forward button on an ipac is a momentary event, even ifyoulook joldit down. Or do the newer ones act differently?

[Bender]

mine doesn't do that (i have a minipac)

I think something is wrong there

[GaryMcT]

I'm excited!!  Picking up an Omega Race this weekend!

[GaryMcT]

Woo hoo!  The replacement magnet from Ultimarc showed up today!  Now both of my U360s are marvelous!    Maybe I can invite some friends over this weekend to playtest the latest control panel prototype.

[GaryMcT]

Had some friends over to play tonight.  So far the only negative feedback is the player 2 thumb button getting in the way when playing Robotron (or any game that uses the right stick. . I prefer Pac-Man this way).  I'm not quite sure what to do about it yet.  Here are things that I know can change:

1) The left stick can move at most an inch to the left (probably less) without the player 1 joystick hand hitting the side of the cabinet.
2) I can't move the player 1 buttons closer to the player 1 stick unless I want it to not be exactly the same layout as player 2, where the buttons need to move furthur from the sticks
3) I don't think the player 2 stick can move left at all without player 2's hand hitting player 1's buttons.
4) Player 2's buttons are as far right as they can physically go given cabinet constraints.

These are the options I can think of so far:
1) Get rid of the thumb buttons and go with a 6-button per player layout.
2) Move the thumb buttons to the right a bit
3) Move the player 1 stick an inch (at most) to the left which would give a 1/2 more space between the joysticks and buttons for each player.  This might actually be enough to fix the problem.  I may have to cardboard/paper that to see how it works.  If that isn't enough, I could also move the thumb buttons to the right a fraction of an inch.

Here's the most recent layout:

[GaryMcT]

Here are sketches of the above changes at the same resolution so that you can see the changes easily.  I'm not sure yet if the hold-down clamp will get in the way of the player 1 joystick. . I may have to move it south a bit to get it out of the way.  Fortunately there is room to do that.  What do you think?

Before:



After:



I also moved the buttons a touch away from the top and bottom since they are nearly getting in the way of the cabinet.

If I knew how to easily make an animated GIF, it'd be easier to show the changes.  If you save them and toggle between them in ACDSee or something, it's easier to see.

[Bender]

with the guide lines on there it's easy to see

Not sure how moving the joystick solves the problem (the wrist hitting the button, right?)

I think you could move the thumb buttons up (though that would mess up your defender layout)

[GaryMcT]

The high-level idea is that I within a player, I need to move the thumb button and the joystick apart from each other on the X axis.  Moving the player 1 left a bit gives me a bit more room to work with. 

Moving the thumb button up a bit might help since it may help to clear my hand.  Might want to move it even more to the right.

I've decided to go with a special control panel for Defender/Stargate, so it's okay to move the thumb button away from the joystick.

Here's the problem:



Here's a layover of the last sketch to see where the button falls.  Still looks like it may not fix the problem, but it is close.  I may move the thumb buttons a touch more to the right to be sure.



On a different note, Bender, have you played Mad Planets on Benderama?  This game is new to me, and looks pretty darn cool. .  I don't have the right controls for it yet though.  Looks like it needs exactly what you have already!  Also, are you able to play Frontline on Benderama?  And lastly, you got my PM/email from a week or so ago, yes?  Just want to make sure.

[Bender]

AH, I see!

that is tight, up and to the right, and make sure that button isn't mapped to anything

I got Mad Planets working perfectly (that is a fun game)
Front Line in mame is looking for 2 joysticks I want to set it up for 1 joystick and 1 spinner but can't figure out how to do it
Is there a way to edit what controls are listed (not the editable ones in the TAB menu)

[GaryMcT]

I think you'd have to modify code to make a spinner work if it isn't already there. I'll put that one on the backburner too.

If you ever decide to sell u360 mods for your topfire mod, let me know! 

[Bender]

Leapinlew did it for Gryruss and Time pilot so cool!
I'd love to do that on a few games

I'll trade you
some game mods diffs for a U360 mod

[GaryMcT]

OK, so now I need to order a spinner.   Hmmmm, what should be spinner control panel look like?   Analog stick with trigger on the right, spinner on the left-ish?   Will have to think about this.

If there is already a patch that makes this work for one game, it should be pretty trivial for me to move it to other games.

[GaryMcT]

Leapinlew did it for Gryruss and Time pilot so cool!
I'd love to do that on a few games

I'll trade you
some game mods diffs for a U360 mod

Which games and what do you want them to do?

[GaryMcT]

Another sketch. . will likely try to build another prototype tomorrow, or at least get started on it:

[Bender]

Leapinlew did it for Gryruss and Time pilot so cool!
I'd love to do that on a few games

I'll trade you
some game mods diffs for a U360 mod

Which games and what do you want them to do?

I'll have to think about it

but a few like asteroids, gyrus, time pilot, front line

Another sketch. . will likely try to build another prototype tomorrow, or at least get started on it:

I think that is a winner! 

[GaryMcT]

Cool!  Hmmmm, I don't like the normal Gyruss control scheme too much. . . what are you thinking?  Spinner?  It would still only snap to the nearest 8 directions, which I think is the bad part about the original control scheme.  That game REALLY wanted to be coded for a spinner!

Starting to dream of a GGG High-low spinner and a GGG Electric Ice-T 2.25" trackball. . . I almost wish the trackball came in regular all cue-ball white.  I'm not sure that I'm into lit trackballs.

[GaryMcT]

Starting to contemplate building a Defender cab from the ground up for Mame/multigame purposes and putting the Defender back to original (easy to do) and trying to figure out what is wrong with the main board (or get a JROK board).  I may be signing up for something way bigger than I'm ready for quite yet.  I'd better finish my control panel projects before starting that.

[Bender]

I almost wish the trackball came in regular all cue-ball white.  I'm not sure that I'm into lit trackballs.

I believe you can use an actual cue ball, if you have the right size trackball housing. 2 1/4 I think

[GaryMcT]

Ooh. . I'll try that.  That'll give me the option to decide that I like the lit trackball, or just an actual cue ball in there!   Thanks!

[Encryptor]

Gary,

Just curious why you would spend the extra money to buy an Electric Ice trackball if you didn't want it lighted? You can get a plain Happs trackball for about $50 less.


Encryptor

[GaryMcT]

Gary,

Just curious why you would spend the extra money to buy an Electric Ice trackball if you didn't want it lighted? You can get a plain Happs trackball for about $50 less.


Encryptor

The Happ with a USB interface included is about $100 from what I can tell (looking at the Happ site.)  I don't mind paying an extra $17 knowing that there is a good chance that I'm going to want it to be lit.