I am going to burn my Cab I'm building!!!

[BigDaddyE]

Ok. 85% done with my Mame cab.

I am in the process of getting the CPU to talk to the monitor.

I have a brand new 27" curved CRT from Nieman. I have the Ultimarc Arcade VGA card to convert the signals to 15.

I am getting a terrible picture and a picture that is vertically split 3/4, 1/4. I can't move the black bar left or right.

Both Andy and Rick think I am some dumb *** because I can't figure out what the heck is going on. Anyone see this before? Any ideas beside a can of lighter fluid and some hotdogs?

I am getting really upset. A nice little project slowly going to heck.

Thanks for your input.

Eric

[Kevin Mullins]

Horizontal Shift / Horizontal Hold a tad on the monitor itself ?

Jumpers and settings on the ArcadeVGA correct ? 15/31

What resolutions are you trying ?

Is it degaussing properly ?

What suggestions did Andy and Rick give you already?

[ivwshane]

I've seen that issue before and it's usually related to having an incorrect/unsupported resolution.

Since you can see the screen kind of, right click some where on the desktop and go to properties, then the settings tab, and select a lower resolution.

[BigDaddyE]

No jumpers on the card itself, if the jumpersettings are done through the cpu,I can't even see the sceeen, how am I to set the jumpers?

No idea how to degauss.Thought that might be it, but there are too many other issues (horizontal will not hold, vertical is a slow roll)

I think you are talking about using the knobs on the yoke for horizontal shift and hold right? I was thinking I might have to try that.

Working at the lowest resolution XP allows. Did this by installing the old video card and going through my lcd. Switched the settings, swapped the cards and montitors and...... same thing, maybe even a little worse.

UUhg.

Eric

[Todd H]

Isn't the lowest resolution XP uses 800x600 unless you dig into the advanced tab? To me this looks like some kind of resolution/refresh problem. Hook up a regular PC monitor to the pc, go into the adapter tab in advanced settings, click list all modes, and select 640x480, 24-bit, 60 Hz (make sure you choose 60 Hz and not 75 Hz). Then hook the Neiman monitor back up and see how it goes.

[saint]

Isn't the lowest resolution XP uses 800x600 unless you dig into the advanced tab? To me this looks like some kind of resolution/refresh problem. Hook up a regular PC monitor to the pc, go into the adapter tab in advanced settings, click list all modes, and select 640x480, 24-bit, 60 Hz (make sure you choose 60 Hz and not 75 Hz). Then hook the Neiman monitor back up and see how it goes.

+1 Yep - do this. First thing I'd be trying.

[BigDaddyE]

Ok.

I have 640 x 480 in either 256 color, 16 bit high color, 32 bit true color or 16 color, all at a default refresh rate.

Any one in particular?

[Jack Burton]

That is 100% a monitor running at the wrong refresh rate.  I just saw this not even ten minutes ago when I was working with a Sony PVM monitor.  I had uninstalled soft 15khz and was running at 640x480 at 60hz. 

I don't know why you are having this problem, but that is exactly what a progressive signal looks like when it's sent to a monitor that can only do interlaced. 

I bet you can do this.  I don't know if this works with an AVGA, but I know it works with soft 15khz. 

First, install soft 15khz.
Go into display options, and choose the setting tab, then go to advanced. 
Go to the adapter tab, and select list all modes.  Scroll all the way to the top.  You will have a set of resolutions that seem to be doubles of other resolutions.  These are actually 15khz resolutions.  Select 640x480 at 60hz and restart your computer.  You should be running in 15khz mode.  This is how I run all my monitors in 15khz for windows.

[Todd H]

What kind of monitor is this? Is it a CGA or a tri-sync?

[BigDaddyE]

cga. wanted to be the most realistic for old games, thinking twice about that now, tri sync would have been a lot easier!

Going to try to install the Arcade drivers, if that doesn't work I will try the other suggestion.

See you in about a half hour.

[Todd H]

Sounds like an AVGA issue then. I know there was an issue with the AVGA drivers sometimes not installing correctly. I'm surprised Andy couldn't help you figure out what was going on. Definitely try reinstalling the drivers. And contact Andy again. Andy's a great guy and is very helpful to customers. Good luck.

[RayB]

Uninstall old drivers. Re-install AVGA drivers.

BAM, windows should display correctly automatically (set to 640x480).

Then in MAME, you have to have it correctly configured too.

[BigDaddyE]

ok, I have to be missing something here.

Everyones head must be able to go up and sideways to keep up with the horizontal and vertical roll I have, there is no flippin way I can uninstall drivers and reinstall drivers with the Arcade card in. it took me the last hour to try to install the drivers for the Arcade card. I did it, but I cant get the rolling to stop long enough to try to get the right driver used!

[saint]

Temporarily hook it to a standard PC monitor.

[BigDaddyE]

LCD monitor says out of range.

I just tried it again with the LCD and it still says out of range.

[saint]

Got a CRT hanging around anywhere as a temp? Mmmm can you bring it up in safe mode, or does the LCD say out of range immediately?

[swamprat96]

The arcadVGA card has two ports. You must use the DVi-d port for a standard PC monitor and it will work fine. The VGA port will NOT support a PC monitor of any type

Agree I think its drivers. Use system restore to go back where you started

[BigDaddyE]

First good luck of the day!

I was wondering what that other port was for!

I am up and going on the LCD, time to get everything installed.

Thanks, we'll see what happens when I get everything up and try the crt again.

Eric

[Turnarcades]

... and people often ask why we stick to PC monitors in our cabs... 

Customers wanna install their own then fine by me. Personally I've never even wanted the headache for my own cabs, let alone other people's. 

[kevinp]

No offense, but sometimes the easiest route isn't necessarily the best.  A nicely mounted arcade monitor looks and works better than an old cased computer monitor sitting on a shelf inside a cab.  That to me is not true cab building, IMHO.

[AMDman13]

Hang in there and keep trying. Use a DVI to VGA dongle to connect that LCD. The VGA port on the AVGA card is for 15khz only. The DVI port is configured for standard VGA.

[TOK]

... and people often ask why we stick to PC monitors in our cabs... 

Customers wanna install their own then fine by me. Personally I've never even wanted the headache for my own cabs, let alone other people's. 

I have cabs with a TV, computer CRT, LCD and arcade monitor respectively, so I've dealt with most of the common display types now. Once you overcome the minor hurdles of using an arcade monitor, there is nothing better for what we're trying to do. Honestly, setting up an arcade monitor was no more difficult than configuring a TV using component. BigDaddyE's issue here is atypical, particularly when using an Arcade VGA.

[BigDaddyE]

I've been told I'm an atypical kind of guy!

Well, I gave up last night, so day 2.

I followed everyones advice, got the LCD hooked up, installed the drivers for the arcade card and still had a crt picture that had issues with horizontal and vertical hold, I think the back bar was gone.

So I have been working with Andy and Rick on where the issue lies. They think it is a wiring harnass issue, so I will be trying different combo wiring styles that Andy has suggested.

I will keep those who have helped up to date and if you have an idea, let me know, through you guys I was able to at least get the lcd working yesterday!

Thanks!

Eric

[BigDaddyE]

Im at a dead end again.

Did some wiring tricks and got the picture a little better, still looks like the original picture I posted, now the colors are correct though.

Can't move that black bar, can't get the horizontal hold to hold and can't get the vertical hold to hold.

Eric

[kegger]

You have to try to eliminate either the monitor or the video card from the picture.
Then you will be able to narrow down your problem to which peice of hardware it is causing the problem. Now from what I have read in the posts it sounds like to me the picture is rolling on the lcd and arcade monitor. If this is true then it could be a problem with the video card or drivers. What is it doing when you boot into safe mode on the LCD? Does the picture stay at that point? You want to try to get a 640X480 60hz video setting on the lcd and not have any rolling issues then you should be able to move the pc to the arcade monitor and have the same results or atleast be close. Take it step by step keeping track of what you tried. And if the rolling issue is keeping you from checking the settings then try a standard video card and get the settings correct in windows first. I know this has all been said in the above posts but all the advice is good and its important to know what it does in safe mode with the Arcade VGA plugged into the LCD. A regular CRT monitor would be better for testing.   Good Luck. I have had the problem with plugging my arcade monitor into the VGA port of the ArcadeVGA and pulled my hair out on that too.   

[BigDaddyE]

No issues when the lcd is attached, works fine.

Rolls vertically and horizontally, with the black bar, which is the edge of the screen, 3/4 or the way, vertically on the screen.

Somebody on here has to have a Nieman CRT and is using an Arcade card... anyone, anyone........

[pinballwizard79]

I had TWO of those cards, couldn't get either of em to work on a standard res or medium res monitor even with the "breakout" cable.

Just too much of a PITA, I moved on to the UVC eventually.

I wish I could be more help, it seems like someone posted a good point earlier regarding progressive vs interlaced.......did you talk to Andy about that?

[BigDaddyE]

Here's the latest pics, a little better than yesterday, still can't see a whole lot cuz of the flickering back and forth horizontally.

Pinball wiz, I will ask Andy. Rick and Andy are talking behind the scenes, trying to get it to work. I have no idea what you are talking about with your monitors, but it sounds cool!

Eric

[Turnarcades]

No offense, but sometimes the easiest route isn't necessarily the best.  A nicely mounted arcade monitor looks and works better than an old cased computer monitor sitting on a shelf inside a cab.  That to me is not true cab building, IMHO.

Fair point of course and I agree with the lack of authenticity, but then the visual accuracy goes pretty much unnoticed to most, and as we build many it helps to be sure of consistency in the components we use - which of course isn't a problem with CRT PC monitors as they operate the same from one unit to the next and require virtually no setting up.

In an ideal world arcade monitors would be plug-and-play, as the obvious advantage is arcade monitors are available in much bigger sizes.

[BigDaddyE]

 

New info:

Bought a voltmeter to measrue hz.

60 hz coming from card.

monitor running at 16 hz.

The card gives me 640 x 480, 32 true color, 59 hz as the preferred. My only other option is default refresh for frequency.

Ideas?

[swamprat96]

Umm - 60Hz from card- vga port right? If it really is 60HZ then yes you won't get a picture worth a damn on your arcade CRT. However this should not be possible as even if the drivers are not installed properly you "should" get a clean boot screen before windows starts - because the card by default only puts out 15Hz through the VGA port locked by the firmware- and your LCD screen confirmed it was not 60Hz when it said "out of range"

So- what happens on boot up- clear single screen until windows gets going? If so its a resolution issue in Windows 100% - if not then perhaps a faulty card

Posting the boot screen image would be helpful. The card by default protects the monitor until the windows drivers take over. If its not then it could be a dud

PS - whats the keyboard encoder? Using a J-Pac? If so it will help diagnose this

PPS - is your video ground connected from the monitor? really commonly missed issue that will often screw up any chance of your monitor working.

[BigDaddyE]

The computer will not start until the crt monitor is unplugged. Once unplugged the computer goes through the routine. I will unplug and plug in and see what the screen looks like. I will try to get a pictrue if there is anything.

I haven't even gotten to the jpac yet, I am using the pc mouse and keyboard to the computer.

Explain the video ground thing a little more. I know about grounding, but what should I look for?

I can tell you that the monitor is grounded to the monitor chassis, but that is it.

[swamprat96]

OK understood
1.plug both the CRT and LCD monitors in. Will the PC start? It *should* because it will see the LCD as the primary monitor. If it doesn't start it with the LCD monitor only and plug in the CRT after its going
2. Now go into the video settings for the card and set the CRT as primary monitor. I'm at work so can't give you exactly how to do this
3. Reboot. If the PC starts you should get a clean boot screen. IF it does not start there is a bigger issue.

Presuming a bigger issue - have you got the J-pac yet? If so its time to add it in just so we can use its leds to diagnose what is going on and also it will probably allow the PC to boot with the CRT attached

As to the ground - I learned this the hard way. There are five wires - video Green, blue,red, Video sync and video ground - that come from the monitor. I had problems until I attached the video ground to the power supply ground

[Jack Burton]

OK, I just went back and did this again on my Sony PVM monitor.  It is a 15khz only monitor just like yours.

I ran windows in 640x480, 60hz, 32 bit color and got EXACTLY what you posted in your picture.  Rolling image and all.  I adjusted the vertical hold and the image stablized, but I still had funky colors and a black bar in the middle of the screen.

I know you said that the voltmeter says your graphics card is outputting 15khz, but I know that the image you are seeing is exactly what a 31khz image looks like on a 15khz monitor. 

[Hoagie_one]

did you use the uninstaller program that andy supplies to remove the drivers before reinstalling.  This helped me greatly when I installed my AVGA card.

[swamprat96]

yes it could be drivers - but I suspect there is something else as the machine will not boot with the CRT plugged in.

[BigDaddyE]

I took a day off today, I am so fed up with this monitor and card!

I can tell you that I used the program and blew away the drivers and installed the ATI drivers, so that's not the issue.

I will check the ground tomorrow, I can't say for sure the monitor is propperly grounded.

I did unplug the monitor and quickly plug it back in to see the first screens, it comes up on the monitor, however, it needs to be adjusted to see the pictures, but I don't have enough time to do that. So I see a bunch of black and white horizontal lines, different from when the colors kick in. I will try your tricks tomorrow and let everyone know.

Thanks for the help, this gives me a little hope, I'm kinda running low!

Eric

[swamprat96]

I can tell you that I used the program and blew away the drivers and installed the ATI drivers, so that's not the issue

I hope you mean you installed the arcadeVGA drivers- not standard ATI?

Regarding the ground- I was refering to standard Jamma video wiring- but the logic still aplies. The monitor feed will have its own ground- and this should be the same ground as the powersupply. Find the ground lead for the video in and check it for continuity against your power supply ground. I think they should be common AFAIK

Hang in there - this stuff can be a pain but the end result worth it. I've done both PC screens and now arcade monitors - and whilst arcade monitors are harder I have to say the picture is better

[cbcellman33]

If this is a cga monitor, check your sync wires on the monitor itself. I have had this issue before and i think my sync needed a ground wire...are you using positive horizontal sync?

[BigDaddyE]

I've narrowed down the issue with Rick and Andy's help, although, I'm not sure what is wrong, exactly.

Rick made a new break out cable, tested it and sent it to me. I installed it and continue to have the vertical and horizontal rolling, along with the picture leaning to the left or right and small black lines about 1-2 mm apart horizontally across the screen.

So earlier in this thread I said that the CPU will not fire with the monitor connected to the VGA plug on the ARCADE card. Andy is investigating this more, here's what I found:

CPU will not fire with monitor in VGA port
Once CPU is started and the Arcade monitor is plugged in, the LCD monitor will not work (no signal)
CPU fires up just fine with teh LCD monitor in
CPU fires up when the VGA cable is connected to the card, but disconnected from the breakout cable
CPU fires up when the VGA cable is connected to the card, but disconnected from the breakout cable and the LCD is connected (LCD works)
CPU does not fire when connected to the breakout cable (I took the cable off the monitor, since we already know with everything connected I cannot get the CPU to fire

So it looks like the break out cable, however, Rick had this working just fine with an identical monitor, this cable and an Arcade card. All pins are good on the VGA cable too.

Anyone make sense of this puzzle?

Eric