Interesting article on making LCDs look like fuzzy CRTs

[genesim]

I see you dodged the question......how old were you?

Gee what would prove it to you anyway?

I had the catalogs that updated all the time putting new games to the end.

I remembering each being categorized...strategy/sports/adventure

I remember the first demo being played by a guy in a sears store and me thinking...cool Superbreakout that has more balls falling!

I remember Pacman looking like complete "butt" compared to arcade.

I remember the original chess game taking an hour it seemed to process a move and actually going blank while it was "thinking".

I remember it using switches on the back as a passthrough??   Lets see, i remember the little teeth actually recessing in the controller port after a while and having to pull them out with a pair of plyors to get them to register after years of abuse.

I remember having to get replacement power packs after many burnouts.    I remember playing the off brand versions and the cartridge design changes as time would go on.

I actually have PICTURES with me holding the frickin' games.  Would that satisfy you and make all I said more true?   

WHAT DOES THIS ALL MATTER???      Bud I had it the year it was released.  Case closed.

[genesim]

This is all a witch hunt plain and simple.    I stated it before and I will state it for the last time.   It is a religion and everytime I get closer to the truth people get personal.

Stay blind.   But this line of thinking is so dangerous.    Thankfully people like me will eventually blow the bull crap whistle.    Truth is truth and it cannot be twisted as much as some people like to try.

Yet there will always be people that believe in Vampires and Leprachauns.    Cool.   I am happy to not be a part of that crowd.

[Todd H]

[genesim]

No I am done, this is futile.

I can't even discuss one plus one with some.   They believe there is a different answer there, so how can I get the million dollar question.

It is all a blind belief.   

There are two kinds of people that are mostly posting here:

1.   The ones that believe something and will not be made wrong.

2.   The ones that get upset at the sign of any disagreement....


But then there is me.    One that is open to discussion and tries to come up with logical understanding...but then when one disagreement comes about..


Uh you must not have been there....you must not know what you are talking about...blah blah blah.

I will follow Malenko's advice.   I need to STFU.    I am talking to walls. 

[Flip_Willie]

That still is exagerrated, but don't over-estimate that blurring was considered when drawing graphics! Pull out a Sega Genesis emulator and run "Cool Spot". Or look at this screen shot:



See how the bubbles have vertical stripes in them? We drew them like that on purpose because when viewed on a TV (through a real Genesis console of course) the stripes would blend with the adjacent pixels and create the illusion of transparency.

Wow, you worked on Cool Spot Ray B? Awesome!

[genesim]

Don't question it.   Blur was considered with his 10 inch television and not my 20 inch!!!    Did you forget to read your Atari 2600 flyer...optimized for those special displays only!   Everyone else sees lines!!

[genesim]

Oops got em confused....Ray/Randy...too many believers in the blur to keep track.

[Hoopz]

Oops got em confused....Ray/Randy...too many believers in the blur to keep track.

Keep it up.... Gonna take another shot at someone else's children next?

 

[genesim]

I never took a shot at anyone's children PERIOD.  LIAR.

I will not post again though because I will likely be banned if it hasn't been already. 

No justice.

[genesim]

But someone took a shot at me by saying they would show up at more door threatening my family's safety.  Learn the difference.

[Hoopz]

You've said you were done posting about a half dozen times already.  I called the under for anyone making the book before and I'll call it again.

You have no self control as evidenced by your rambling posts and vulgar PMs to people.  You've gotten temporary bans because of your inability to control yourself.  Hell, I wouldn't do that.... I'd give you enough rope so you finish the job on yourself.

A lot like this contest LINK, we have a nice little pool going about when you go off the deep end and get banned. 

[genesim]

There you go LYING again.   Sorry, but it is hard not to defend myself against outright miss truths.   And you think that is justice?

If I am banned for fighting agains lies, then so be it.   If that is the deep end, so be it.   But rest assured I will not back down.   Posting here means nothing if this kind of crap is allowed to exist.   

Hell I if I am BANNED it is for fighting for the TRUTH!

[ahofle]

Wow, you worked on Cool Spot Ray B? Awesome!

Agreed, very nice!  I always thought Cool Spot was one of the more polished looking Sega Genesis games.

[Xiaou2]

Gen,
 
You really gota re-read what you post.  Its uncivil, and nobody is going to argue
with an uncivil person who is on their high horse.

 You are not as knowledgeable as you think... and more times than not, you are
downright wrong.

 I recall my atari on my old POS tv looking pretty bad.  Maybe not quite as bad
as projected here.. but certainly not clean as an emu portrays.

 
 One thing you have missed completely... is RAYS picture of the Bubbles,
and the explanations behind it.  (which really blows your case all to hell)

 No way would anyone in their right mind make a bubble that had white stripes
down the middle of it!  Why did Ray do it?   Because when displayed on a TV, it would make those appear TRANSLUCENT.  So the bubble would look like a milky but see-through white.

 Ray wasnt the first one to do this.  Its been done in countless arcade games.
Not just for translucent effect.. but color blending effect.

 You gota get off your high horse.  Your so blinded by your own OPINION, that you
cant see anything clearly at all.

[saint]

Stay blind.   But this line of thinking is so dangerous.    Thankfully people like me will eventually blow the bull crap whistle.    Truth is truth and it cannot be twisted as much as some people like to try.

Yet there will always be people that believe in Vampires and Leprachauns.    Cool.   I am happy to not be a part of that crowd.

You know, this is an arcade forum. We're not talking human rights and the future of humanity here. If someone disagrees with you, it doesn't necessarily mean they're insane or out to get you.

*boggle*

[saint]

But someone took a shot at me by saying they would show up at more door threatening my family's safety.  Learn the difference.

Post me the link to that please.

[genesim]

Saint,

Kinda hard to do that when the post got deleted.   I suggest you check your mail I have sent you at least 10 different messages with not one response.

But I can paraphrase accurately..it went like this.   

Me and Cheffo had an all day war.   Then when he couldn't keep up(and I admit that I taunted him after totally being provoked after I tried to call a complete and utter truce...try reading the original post if it is still around) because he said he was picking up his kids I replied back saying my kids were old enough to drive and collect paychecks...hence establishing age.

He got mad and posted again on another personal attack so I said for him to stop ignoring his kids by having meaningless arguements with me(which of course would mean he "lost"...but in reality we both "lost" on stupid meaningless debates...guilty as charged on my account).

He said if I talked about his wife(which I never did) or that I didn't stop being rude and talking about his kids(which I never did...er it was more advice oh parenting skills actually) then he would show up on my doorstep.  Which is a blatant threat to me and my family.

Of course I got banned for threatening him(I think....because you never answered any of my messages to you)... back with saying that would be the last thing he ever did when acutually I wasn't the one that started it with the family.

Now in my defense I did call him Rainman on another discussion without knowing his kids were autistic...which of course I apologized for immediately.

So what happens in kind...Hoopz accuses me of going after his kids just like Cheffo constantly lies about things I never said and when I disprove, I get called names.

Instead of banning me, how about banning people that are telling lies.    And of course banning people that are calling names, or banning people that threaten implied physical harm...or at the least stalking.   Hell I could take the ban if people were actually banned equally.   Nothing I did was any different then what other people were doing EXCEPT mine was done alot less.

You know, this is an arcade forum. We're not talking human rights and the future of humanity here.

Depends on how you look at it.   These blatant lies about Arcade representation threaten the very future of the preservation of the art.    Different things matter to different people.  Who are you or anyone else to judge at its base level.  Though it is your board, and I guess you can cut out all opposing views to the whole.   You of course have that freedom...to be unfair if you so choose.

BUT human rights is what I am talking about when it comes to other members threatening my home.   Messageboard or not, there are criminal liabilities with such behavior.

As for me thinking someone is insane for disagreeing with me...uh when did I ever say that?  Actually if you take the time to read what is written that has been said about ME because I disagreed. 

I do not work that way and like with all them I can quote you direct examples.    Wait...I have done that already.    For some reason it just gets ignored.

I can't even get people to stop attacking me on the fact that I owned an Atari in its hey day.      And thats not personal???

[saint]

Get your last bits in folks, I'm locking this thread tomorrow. Nothing personal please.

[genesim]

One thing you have missed completely... is RAYS picture of the Bubbles,
and the explanations behind it.  (which really blows your case all to hell)

BUBBLES???  What does that have to do with the Atari arguement?   I will get to that when we can at least get the fundamentals correct.   Many are struggling with that even.   There is so much more I would love to present, but I am not even given a chance on the basics because of the constant clouds of personal attacks.

So if we cannot get passed the undeniable facts that are the Atari display not blending....then it is a lost cause.

I recall my atari on my old POS tv looking pretty bad.  Maybe not quite as bad as projected here..

Looking bad and completely rewriting history are two different things.   That picture is pure fiction.  

When you got Randy posting some of things that he said it is clear that he doesn't know what he is talking about on this case.

RF got better to the point of separating??  NTSC standards changed??   My 10 inch screen was the programmers desired intentions??

I am not calling Randy insane, ..because I don't feel that he is.  But coming to those kind of conclusions make me wonder why others have not questioned it and still rail against me.

xxxxxx

Saint,

Get your last bits in folks, I'm locking this thread tomorrow. Nothing personal please.

Well if you are locking it for personal attacks, then it isn't because of me.  I never told anyone to STFU!

As for personal, I don't see how my response to you doesn't at least justify a retort.   

This is not to be mean or any such thing.   But if I see wrong, I am going to point it out.    But I will say this.   Tell me now, tell me in my email, tell me anywhere....

WHAT HAVE I DONE WRONG that others haven't done to me?  Why am I specifically a target???  Is it because I have a different point of view and the MOB rules???

Tell me what to change and I will do that. 

[Xiaou2]

BUBBLES???  What does that have to do with the Atari arguement?

 You, the almighty seeker of Truths can not handle the very evidence presented that
slashes your arguments about Games designed around the Display that they were
destined to be viewed upon.


 As far as I can remember, there wasnt much in the line of color bleeding on atari 2600,
as the pixel size they used was way too big.  However, there were effects such as
washed out colors, and slight blurring... and some colors bleeding such as reds.  These
are all common things that happen over a composite signal.

 The effects shown are extreme worse case scenario...  where the worst possible tv
would have been used.  Being poor, we had such a tv.. and it was pretty damn awful...
just not as exaggerated as what is seen here.

 Still, it does not really change the facts about arcade displays (and console games that
actually used normal sized pixels).  Which is the point you seem to really want to address.    And to which you are wrong, which is proven in such an event as Rays bubble picture & description... as well as hundreds of other similar arcade graphics.

[DJ_Izumi]

Would a moderator maybe please take action in reguards to what genesim does to these threads?  They are valid topics of discussion and then he comes in and ruins them, requiring them to be locked as a result.

Multiple threads have been locked as the result of one person's instigation.  This isn't fair to the others who have otherwise participated reasonably and constructively in these threads.

[genesim]

What "I" do?

You mean disagree?   I am not the one that starts personal attacking just because someone else is wrong.

But getting back on topic, would all of you please explain this picture from the Atari Catalog?

[Xiaou2]

 No response to the stripped bubble?

[RandyT]

As far as I can remember, there wasnt much in the line of color bleeding on atari 2600,
as the pixel size they used was way too big.  However, there were effects such as
washed out colors, and slight blurring... and some colors bleeding such as reds.  These
are all common things that happen over a composite signal.

Maybe, but the 2600 was a level below composite.  It was RF.  The two are not in any way the same.  Composite was actually a big step up from RF in that it is a direct video signal.  RF, as the name implies, was a radio frequency modulated signal which was then de-modulated by the receiver.  It's literally akin to the difference between listening to a radio station and listening to the source from the radio station plugged directly into your amp with an RCA cable.  Two whole major steps of garbage producing conversion are removed with composite.

Whether the pixels were too large to do the kind of blending seen in Turbo or not is irrelevant.   Vertical resolution could be 192 pixels, and with some fancy programming, use up to 128 colors (Turmoil).  This vertical resolution is not terribly unlike some of the arcade games which followed later.  By placing different shades of similar colors above or below, and coupling it with the fuzzy RF modulated video signal and old-tech displays, somewhat decent gradients were achieved.  Very similar to the one shown in the enhanced side of the photo.  These were enhanced programming techniques and very timing dependent. I'm very familiar with the mechanics of this, as I once used a similar technique on the C-64 to display 128 animated sprites on screen at once when such a thing was unheard of.  Those types of effects are seen on later titles where programmers had become more familiar with the system and were working hard to squeeze every last bit of capability out of it.  So don't bother looking for them on early titles.

RandyT

[genesim]

Would a moderator maybe please take action in reguards to what genesim does to these threads?  They are valid topics of discussion and then he comes in and ruins them,

Let me see, so I have an honest discussion about specifics and Hoopz comes on and tells a outright lie about a discussion that got locked and I got banned for...and then I ruined the topic?

Randy comes on and starts attacking me for my AGE.   My AGE and starts saying that I am lying because I won't give out my exact age??

Dude, how was this my fault that it got ruined?

Look at the posts, I didn't start any of this negative crap then or now.  Every single one of them I was namecalled from the beginning.   I did nothing to deserve the behavior and I even complained to the moderator the moment it happened.   And I ruined it???  

I only "ruined" it because I believe something different from the MOB.    I am not allowed to think anything different hence my posts are deleted and I am banned.   Yet others name call, threaten, and personal attack in every imaginable form and that is ok???

I will likely be banned for even complaining about it publically.  

What is the answer?   Think like an android?  Take all this crap??   I am only allowed to stay here when abused?

If noone attacked me, I would never attacke back.   Wanna test this theory?  

Want to start now?  I got the guts and I can stick by my word.  I can keep the peace.   But here is the point, if there is a personal attack made at me and I point it out, will it be punished?   Will it be fair?

I am not above proving this FACT.   Are you?

It doesn't have to be "ruined", there is a real solution.   We could all treat each other with respect...and that includes treating ME with the same.

XXXXX

Randy T,

Perhaps you are right to an extent, but even that is far fetched.   Why..because the premise is still the same.   The NTSC standard.  Care to comment?

Explain to me how a lower resolution can ever truly take advantage of a higher resolution in case of "bleeding" when the concept just doesn't follow.

What was the exact highest resolution of an Atari game compared to say...a movie that has tons more detail.

[genesim]

Actually let me make it even clearer.

Randy you said 192 pixels...ok fine..but I don't believe it for a second on an ATARI display....but to play Devil's advocate.

NTSC resolution is 525 with it interlaced...so that makes over 200 lines vertical correct?

So where is the color bleed buddy?   Seems like more then enough lines to draw those lines that were supposedly programmed in for that effect.

I think it is more like the obvious problem.   Atari has low ram, so low graphics.   Case closed.  It was never limited by the display just as Arcades were not limited in the early days by display either.

The bottle neck was the CPU not the display.

[genesim]

I gotta get this one in too since the post will get deleted and I cannot edit...

If so many people are claiming that their display was different and there was amazing bleeding effects of their crappy display...why would the programmers not do it in such a way that would benefit all?

Why would a programmer ever make their code work for color bleed?

Why punish the ones with better TV's.  I know my TV wasn't top of the line and I saw it on black and white in the early years. 

But later I noticed all these things on crappy motel tv's.     

[genesim]

No response to the stripped bubble?

Whats that got to do with Atari?

Compelling too bad there is a myriad of problems.   Bad scale up...bad emulation(Genesis emulators are in no way perfect) and of course we are talking about programs that were TWENTY YEARS LATER.

Obviously this is an example of your exception to the rule which I fuly embrace.    Though it doesn't lend credibility that a current display cannot do the effect.

Remember the Genesis had specialized hardware and there is no doubt in my mind that some effects have not been rendered correctly.   Doesn't mean current displays cannot be put right...or at least close.    Apples and oranges my friend.

[Xiaou2]

You make no logical sense.  Its hard to even  understand what you are posting.  Its like
you do not speak english as your native language.

 AFAIK, interlaced tvs were not immediately and widely available until a much later
date.

 The atari 2600 was more than low ram.  It was designed to only output low resolution.
Much like Any early game system has limitations on what it can display.

 Many arcade machines were also limited in the amount of colors and set resolutions.
That is standard practice.


 Color Bleed (and blurr) comes from more places than you realize.  For one.. .it can come from a noisy and poor signal... such as found on an RF output that Atari 2600 used.

 
 And your arguments still do not make any sense at all.

 
 Turbo used a res of  208 x 248   with  256 possible colors maximum.
It does not matter that there may have been higher resolution monitors out there
at the time turbo was released.  Turbo was DESIGNED to be ran on a standard
LOW-RESOLUTION arcade monitor.   And anyone with half a brain can tell from the
graphical color choices used... that it was made that way to utilize color blending and
bleeding as well as the usual blur that all occur from old low res large dot pitch arcade
monitors.

 Just as Rays Bubble was designed to be viewed on a tv  on non-interlaced mode,
and will show a translucent image instead of an image with lines through it.

 You clearly do not understand a thing about this technology.

[genesim]

Why do you have to put me down?

This is the first example of someone saying I do not have a brain..or that I do not speak native English my nationality and when I learned English has no bearing on this conversation....etc.

But for your information I am talking about ATARI..get it??  ATARI.

Next NTSC INTERLACED has been around since the 50's.   Why do you say I don't have half a brain and you seem to be lost on facts.

Cool Spot was designed to be viewed on an interlaced signal...it is the Genesis original no???  Was Genesis designed for PC monitors?  Really?

I don't understand about this technology??   

Color bleed comes from a poor signal, so coders program from this inconsistent source of problems?   Hmmm, it doesn't seem logical.

Turbo is a nice exception, your picture makes a nice arguement.   More exception then rule if you ask me, but having never seen the game up close, it is hard to accept your view as gospel.   

[genesim]

WHy would they design Cool Spot to be on non-interlaced mode when the Genesis was used in RF on NTSC televisions?   Where is your evidence of this?

[genesim]

Here is link about your NTSC education.  Please read and feel good forever!  I think you need brushing up.   Then we will be on equal ground forever ok?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC

Interlaced for everyone!

[Xiaou2]

And btw - it has Nothing to do with  bad emulation or scale.  It has to do with
how low-res TVs display images,  as well as the output resolution.

 I have hooked up my Genesis to an RGB cable, and feed that into my Commodore Amiga
RGB monitor.   The signal is super clean.. and the color information is not damaged..
as well as the monitor being superior to most tvs at that time:  640 x 512 max resolution.

 The Genesis was only outputting:

 #  Pixel resolution: depends on display mode

    * up to 320x240 (40x30 cells) for PAL
    * up to 320x224 (40x28 cells) for NTSC
    * interlaced modes can provide double the vertical resolution (i.e. 320x448 for NTSC). Used in Sonic 2 for 2-player split screen

 
 Some would say that the picture was amazing.  It was way sharper and cleaner...
however.. .it made most every game look horrible.   Why?   Because the games
were never meant to be that clear.  They were designed around being displayed in
low resolution with a lesser quality video signal of composite instead of RGB.

 Rays Bubbles would have appeared just as they do on your pc monitor:  With lines.
Where as with my standard tv and a composite output... it would appear as INTENDED,
as a translucent bubble.

 AND... this is NOT only Genesis related.  Its DISPLAY RELATED.  The effects of color
bleeding are not only signal related.   They are related to the type of monitor you are
displaying them on.

 While you may be able to SIMULATE the blending effect...  it will probably never be
as good looking as seeing it on the real low-res monitor,  with the same exact signal
output that was intended to be used.



 

[genesim]

GREAT... so I fail to see where I ever disagreed with you in relation to Cool Spot?

I accept whole heartedly that 20 years later that design improvements were taking place and the home CPU was starting to catch up.  No need to explain what I already admitted.   

WHOOPEE..but of course we are back at square one.  What does this have to do with the Atari display that has far less resolution?

320 x 240 is far beyond NTSC on its interlaced values I get that.   But nice explanation of what I already knew.

interlaced tvs were not immediately and widely available until a much later date.

Still troubling why you made this statement.  Did you read about NTSC and your faulty information?   Not to be mean, but be educated and learn.   I don't put you down for not knowing.   As long as there have been home video games there have been NTSC televisions.   Can you acknowledge your error? 

The Genesis was designed "down" because the native resolution surpassed the interlaced value.   

The Atari 2600 on the other hand could not have been designed "down" because its native resolution was less the NTSC standard..no?

[Xiaou2]

This is the first example of someone saying I do not have a brain..or that I do not speak native English my nationality and when I learned English has no bearing on this conversation....etc.

 - Your ability to communicate to a point of being understood well DOES have a
bearing on the conversations.

 ALSO, you MISINTERPRET my words... as well as the others words and meanings.
I didnt say you have no brain.  I said that anyone with any good intelligence level
should be able to conclude that turbos use of Hot pink on the cars shading would not
be Logical.

 Of course...   your misinterpretation of Factual data is much more relevant to the
arguments.  As well as your choice to be Ignorant to facts given to you... and to
resort to slapping the person in the mouth when they try to help you understand.

But for your information I am talking about ATARI..get it??  ATARI.

 No.  You are trying to use the Atari 2600 as an example to win your arcade argument...
which you can not do... because they are completely different types of systems.  No
arcade that I know of used such a low resolution as the 2600.

Next NTSC INTERLACED has been around since the 50's.

 

SO?  You really think they were pumping out Interlaced TV in  1950?!!! 
Have you even SEEN a TV from 1950?!   

 Let me clue you in.  Just because NTSC has the CAPACITY to do interlace... does
not mean the content providers will provide such a signal.

 In fact... almost NO arcade games that I know of are interlaced.  The only ones I knew for a Fact there had the OPTION to use interlace mode with Tekken III and a few
other Namco games of that Erra.   
 

Cool Spot was designed to be viewed on an interlaced signal...it is the Genesis original no???  Was Genesis designed for PC monitors?  Really?

 As posted earlier... Genesis resolution was very low. In fact, only a very few games
used the higher res mode... and even that wasnt very high res.  Didnt even come
close to maximum NTSC interlace ability. 

Color bleed comes from a poor signal, so coders program from this inconsistent source of problems?   Hmmm, it doesn't seem logical.

 Why do you INSIST on saying "Coders Program?!"   GRAPHICS ARE NOT PROGRAMMED.
GRAPHICS ARE DRAWN!   AND YES, ARTISTS DO DRAW GRAPHICS FOR GAMES BASES
ON THE DISPLAY THEY ARE INTENDING TO DISPLAY THEM ON!!!   Just ask RAYB,  who
ACTUALLY IS AN ARTISTS THAT DRAWS GAME GRAPHICS, AND MADE AN ACTUAL GAME!!!!

LOGIC?!  You have NONE!

Turbo is a nice exception, your picture makes a nice arguement.   More exception then rule if you ask me, but having never seen the game up close, it is hard to accept your view as gospel.   

 You have not seem to have seen Any arcade games up close. 

 Your idea that turbo is an exception is good proof of that.   As there are COUNTLESS
games which utilize low-res monitor effects.

[DJ_Izumi]

Er, yeah, actually, NTSC is entirely interlaced, always has been, progressive television display and broadcasting is a new revelation.  It's in relation to the 60hz electrical grid where the video signal is traveling at 60hz it was easier to take that 30 frames per section and cut each frame into an even and odd arrangement of the entire picture.

However the signal wasn't necessarily progressive either.  That is, one odd and one even frame don't necessarily equal one single progressive frame when combined.  A lot of video cameras capture every half-field independantly and results in a hypersmooth 60hz video signal.  (You see it noticably on camcorders and shows like 'Cops'.)  That's also why home console and arcade games run typically at 60fps so they could fit that signal perfectly.

That said, interlacing really doesn't have an effect on the blurring and bleeding you see on an NTSC TV.  A lot of the blurring is from the signal.  Take a PS2 and connect it to a TV with composite and component input, the component is brilliantly improved and probbly as good as an RGB connection to an arcade monitor.  (OR at least very few would precive a difference).  Far, far, far less noise, burring and bleeding.

Arcades have almost exclusively used clean, sharp RGB connections for their monitors where as home consoles only in the last few years started coming with anything better than the much lower resolution composite.

[genesim]

Xiaou2,

You are so shrouded by emotion that you cannot seem to have a conversation with me without putting me down.

I comprehded just fine and I am talking about the Atari 2600 first.  Not to win an arcade battle, but to first get simple facts straight.   

Turbo I agree with you on, Cool Spot I agree with you on...MOVE ON.  Repeating what we agree on is not moving the conversation forward.    If you say black and I say black you hammering into my head that I didn't say black doesn't make sense.   I agree I agree I agree I agree.

Though I don't like the hot pink or the blurred display and I can stand the stripes...but I do see your point.

SO?  You really think they were pumping out Interlaced TV in  1950?!!!  Have you even SEEN a TV from 1950?!   

No, not the 50's...pre 70's YES.   You didn't read the article and learn your facts.  Start there then you will be more developed and educated for a debate with me.

In fact... almost NO arcade games that I know of are interlaced.

Arcades don't use NTSC standard...or if they do, I don't know of any.  Who argued otherwise?   NTSC is a standard...not the ability to do or other such nonsense.   You seem to be confused again..please read the link.   It will help you.   

LOGIC?!  You have NONE!

More putdowns.   I am being patient though.  Of course you say no logic then you get onto me because I call them programmers.  Same diff.   Its all symantacs.

I am speaking of them as a whole.  Graphic designer to final coders.   Put them in a basket and shake them up.   It is the intent that matters, not the words.

DJ_Izumi,

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, though I digress with you.   The PS2 is a poor example because its resolution surpasses the capability of an NTSC display in its native form.   Any interlaced up a progressive signal gives color bleed ...IF the display has more resolution.   Less...and the repeated display will be all the display, so bleed is minimal and not enough to be designed for.

PS2 doesn't have a RGB connection as far as I know...one of the things that makes me angry actually.

 

[Xiaou2]

My Mistake.

 Growing up with several computers such as the c64 and Amiga...
Interlaced modes were around 640*480  and above.

 While standard tv may have used interlace to display... I doubt it would have
used a resolution anywhere near 640*480.   My  480i tv can only output that res.
 
 Tekken III can use an interlace mode.   Its either 640*240  (standard default)
 or at interlace,   its  640*480.
 
 Genesis at max res didnt come close to that... and tv back in the atari days..
well,  we know it wasnt broadcast in  640*480.

 So, is it that standard tv used to be a resolution of 320*240... but was drawn in
two passes - to equal 110*120  lines each pass?

[genesim]

Thats the first time I have seen you admit you were wrong to me.

Now if I could just get you to understand that the phospher in the backlight of a LCD is not the color mechanism but rather an illuminating agent unlike the CRT and Plasma which it is integral to the color mechanism...we are good to go.

Notice I didn't call you an "idiot" or "moron" or anyone who thinks like that has "half a brain" or any such other putdown.   I would rather discuss politely and I do not think I am without guilt...rather I am trying to bring this together.   It is much easier if I have others cooperating.

As for the Genesis, I don't know exactly how it works, but that seems reasonable.

But at any rate that is not the important part.  My point is that one pass of the resolution is less then the full pass of 320 so at no point are you seeing all the resolution.   Hence you see blur...distortion...jaggies...etc.

The Atari 2600 has full resolution in each pass no matter how you put it.   Hence the clearer picture...barring RF and other such problematic interference.

But designing for this?  I don't believe it in Atari's case for one single solitary second.   How could it be if the display module(even in one pass) surpases the code?

[genesim]

By the way I too grew up with the C64 and it is one of the best home machines in classic period ever.   Archon is one of my favorite games and the Nintendo version was pure crap compared to it.

Spy Vs Spy also didn't translate well.   So many cool games.