Sticky buttons?

[Kayden]

I haven't touched my cab for a few days, but today I started it up and I heard *click*click*click*...  When I looked at it, it was scrolling down through my game list.  I thought the joystick was off again, but then I noticed it was going down by letter and when I looked at the button, it was stuck down.  I popped the CP open and pushed the button back out with a needle, but it got stuck a few more times.  While I had the CP open, I bumped the button next to it and then it started to stick too, but it would only stick for a few seconds and then pop back out slowly.  I lubed the buttons a little bit and they seem to be ok now, but I still find it weird that they'd be stuck DOWN after not being touched for a few days.

[DaveMMR]

Did someone spill something on your CP?  Or did you... um... forget to filter out the Adult ROMs on your cab?

[Kayden]

No, it's kept in "my room" with the door shut.  The mrs wouldn't touch it and the dogs can't get to it.  I have no kids to murder either.

[XeviouS]

Clearly you have an mame-obsessed intruder living in the house, probably living in the crawlspace or the roof cavity. 

My advice would be for you to get the hell out of your house, get the hell out NOW!!

[Ginsu Victim]

That's weird. My Player One start button got stuck this evening for the first time ever. At least I'm not the only one.

I can't figure out a cause. Does the change in temperature or humidity sometimes affect them?

[RandyT]

Here's a possibility:  The button holes are too tight (or the nuts screwed down too tight) and the wood is swelling because there is more humidity in the air now that it's starting to get warmer out.  When the wood swells, it puts forces on the buttons that weren't there before and they start to stick.

RandyT

[Ginsu Victim]

Thanks Randy. That totally makes sense. 

[Kevin Mullins]

Or it could mean you love your machine more than your willing to talk about. 

(nor do I really want to know)

[thatitalian]

Following on from what Randy said...

If you want the scientific answer, all matter expands when heated. Sometimes there are contraction periods. For instance ice melting to water takes less space because air isn't trapped in it. However, boil it to a gas and it expands rapidly. Wood does the same. Energy transferred into matter (in this case via heat) causes molecules to move faster. Molecules moving faster collide into each other more. In a solid this increases internal pressure. They then push in an outward direction to try to reduce the pressure. Essentially this is what causes wood to expand when heated. Everything expands when heated enough (so maybe your button is also expanding). I think the larger question is how much are you heating it? Liquifying, generally speaking, will probably shrink it, therefore you should pour a gallon of ice cold water over your CP to ensure it is cooled and does not continue to expand...

ohh, I forgot to mention, always attach photos of the results...

[Kayden]

Crap.  I hate being right.  I don't want to take my CP apart.   

[Franco B]

What buttons are you using and what size did you drill the holes?

If you are using Happ buttons (or similar 1.1" dia buttons) and you used a 1 1/8" drill bit I dont think that the problem will be in the tightness of the holes. I say this because I have drilled panels with a 28mm bit for happ buttons and 28mm is ~0.6mm (0.022") smaller than 1 1/8". When installing the buttons in a 28mm hole they are very tight, much tighter than they would be in a 1 1/8" hole and I haven't had any similar problems as yours.

I'm not sure if the tightness of the nuts will be a problem either unless you have really cranked them up with a nut spanner.

If you get a stuck button again I would take it out of the CP and see if it still sticks, I think the problem is more likely to be with the buttons than with the mounting, just my £0.02.

[Kayden]

I have a feeling it is much more likely to be the wood expanding or warping.  The two buttons I was having troubles with are right next to each other and nothing has been spilled on my CP. 

Lubing the buttons seems to have helped, but who knows what'll happen when it his 100 outside.  =(

I'll probably wind up taking a dremmel or a drum sander to it.

[Franco B]

Have you tried swapping the buttons for two others?

[Kayden]

No.  That would mean taking out 4 buttons.  Those electric ice buttons are not made for moving repeatedly.      Take off the wires for the switch, take off the switch, take off the RGBLED, take off the nut, take out the button.  That's a lot to manage when upside down with a quarter inch of work room on all sides.

And at this point, it probably wouldn't tell me much as I lubricated all the buttons just in case. 

[javeryh]

I'm not sure if the tightness of the nuts will be a problem either unless you have really cranked them up with a nut spanner.

 

[Franco B]

It would tell you if you have a problem with the two button holes or if it is a problem with the buttons themselves.

You would have to remove two of the buttons anyway to open the holes up and then you would be left with a mess that would be even harder to clean up if you have limited space.

If you do open the holes up and its not a problem with the holes (which I doubt it is) you will be back to square one.

[Kayden]

The reason I said it wouldn't tell me much is because I lubricated the buttons so they don't stick anymore.  I also lubricated all the other buttons so they wouldn't start sticking.

So swapping buttons that aren't currently sticking with buttons that aren't currently sticking wont tell me much.

Time may tell.  I'll see what they feel like when I get home.

[Franco B]

Cool, if all is well at the moment then thats fine 

[severdhed]

just out of curiosity, what did you use to lubricate your buttons

[Kayden]

mineral oil

[RandyT]

Just wanted to offer another tip on this topic.  Almost all buttons are made in multi-cavity molds, which means there can be a very small amount of variation between parts.  So if you do have a couple that are being affected by expansion of the panel material, a quick fix might be to try swapping the plungers on the sticky ones with others which aren't.  We're talking about very small differences, but they might be enough in this situation.

RandyT

 

[Kayden]

I take it just sanding the inside of the socket or the outside of the plunger would help too?

[RandyT]

I take it just sanding the inside of the socket or the outside of the plunger would help too?

A little more drastic, but would also be fine.

[Arcadiac]

Gremlins I tell you, GREMLINS!! 

[Namco]

If your buttons have Cherry microswitches and they're already sticky, then they may not have been preserved correctly. Be sure that when you install them, place them in the control panel how you want them, then pour boiling syrup, water or fruit juice over them, then quickly close the lid. If you follow those instructions, your cherries should last you many seasons.

[Ginsu Victim]

If your buttons have Cherry microswitches and they're already sticky, then they may not have been preserved correctly. Be sure that when you install them, place them in the control panel how you want them, then pour boiling syrup, water or fruit juice over them, then quickly close the lid. If you follow those instructions, your cherries should last you many seasons.

My switches are now RUINED!!!!!!

Thanks.

[Kayden]

I think I found the problem.  I took apart my two chronic stickers.  One of the had really big plastic nubs left over from the casting process and the other had small shards of glass inside as well as those nubs. 

I shaved the plungers down and they seem to fit fine for now.

[RandyT]

I think I found the problem.  I took apart my two chronic stickers.  One of the had really big plastic nubs left over from the casting process and the other had small shards of glass inside as well as those nubs. 

I shaved the plungers down and they seem to fit fine for now.

We get these pre-assembled, so you must have gotten one that slipped by.  I don't know where any other material might have come from, but I doubt it was glass.  Maybe some polycarbonate flash that slipped in at the factory.. 

The thing that still is a little odd is that you said they were fine initially, and then they weren't.  So something still must have changed after they were installed?

RandyT

[Kayden]

I don't know if it was glass for certain, but it was hard, sharp and clear, could have been a large grain of sand.  I didn't look to close, I just flicked it to the floor. 

I think the wood may have constricted a bit or the plexi shifted after a few weeks enough for the burs to catch.  I'm not real worried about it, they're smooth a silk now, but it has been a bit cooler recently.  I'll have to see what happens when it hits 100 outside. 

[u_rebelscum]

....Everything expands when heated enough (so maybe your button is also expanding). I think the larger question is how much are you heating it? Liquifying, generally speaking, will probably shrink it....

Total OT, but water is quite rare in that the liquid is denser than the solid.  Plastics, metals, CO2 (dry ice), etc get smaller when going from liquid to solid as a general rule.