UltraStik U360 Restrictor Plate Kits

[whynotpizza]

Hi all,

Anyone have experience with U360 restrictors to know which one works best for general use across most games?

I have 2 U360's here: one with no restrictor and one with octagonal plate.

Of course I have tested multiple 4-way and 8-way games with each, and personally the octagonal plate feels better, although the stick does not move much with the plate in place.

Anyone have an opinion (one way or another) on the various plates (pros/cons)?

I am trying to use the 360's for 2-way, 4-way and 8-way game play mostly, and using the maps in software switch between each depending on the game selected. So the "general config" is the goal here.

Any ideas are welcome.

  David

PS: These sticks absolutely rock. Amazing design and has a great deal of flexibility in terms of 'on-the-fly' configuration. Andy did a great job with these bad boys!

[TheShanMan]

I have the other restrictor kits. I kinda wish I had the octagonal ones to try - after using the round ones I think I might like the octagonal ones better. Most games I use the sticks for are 2/4/8 way games, and I think the octagonal ones are probably a little nicer for that since they give you feedback that you're in a corner, whereas with the round ones you don't have anything giving you that feedback.

They are really nice sticks though! It sure is nice not having to explain to someone 4 way vs. 8 way and what games they need to use each for.

[whynotpizza]

Yes, the octagonal plate does give a very nice feel on the transitions, especially on the corners. This is why I like it. The throw, however, is pretty short on the movement of the stick. But when I tested in various games, you quickly get used to the shorter throw. I wonder if someone makes different size openings on an octagonal restrictor plate. Then you could try different sizes to get the one you like.

[DaveStall]

I think it probably depends on what games you most like to play and what type of sticks you used back in the day.  Personally, the games I tend to like generally used the Wico style of joystick (Robotron, Joust, etc.) so the circular restrictors were a no-brainer for me.  I personally feel that the circular plates are the most flexible, but I haven't tried the octagonal ones.  I don't think a game like Robotron would feel at all close to the original with them however.

Dave

[Visitor Q]

I have the ones that limited the throw, on order though with the hard springs and the longer shafts.

[Ginsu Victim]

I haven't tried the octagonal, but I love the circular plate with hard spring.

[u_rebelscum]

It depends on the game and the person.  And I don't have the octagon restrictor.  I'll give my 2 cents anyway.

All of the restrictor plates limit the u360 to (basically) the same throw.  The throw with any restrictor is close to other medium to long digital sticks; between about 10 & 15 degrees (short throw is around 5 degrees).  Without restrictor, the throw is very long for a digital stick, but within normal range for analog sticks.  (In my books, "throw" is physical movement range, "engage" distance is when the "switch" closes; u360 can change the engage distance in software.)

IMO:
No restrictor: great for what I call "full" analog joystick games (normal analog sticks like space harrier, after burner, terminator 2, starwars, etc).  Okay for "reduced" analog games (mostly 49-way games, but also food fight).  Too long throw for digital joystick games (2, 4 or 8 way).

Circle restrictor: great for shmups, great for food fight and other reduced analog games.  Okay for fighter, platform, sports and most other 8-way or 2-way games.  Poor to okay for 4-way games.  Poor to okay for full analog games.  The only choice between restrictors for 720 (skate or die).

Square restrictor: I don't like it except for qbert and other diagonal 4-way games.

Diamond restrictor (square mounted 45 degrees):  Great for 4-way games.  Don't like it otherwise.

Octagon restrictor: (don't have, so guessing) Great for fighter, platform, sports 8-way games.  Okay for shmups (others may feel this should be "great"; I grew up with circle 8-ways on my favorite shmups, though).  Okay to great for 4-way & diagonal 4-way games.  Okay to poor for reduced analog games.  Poor to okay for full analog games.


I'm a shmups & platform & analog games person, and don't really like fighters.  So I have a CP with one u360 with circle restrictor (for shmups & platforms) and one without restictor (for full analog games).  I'd like to try the octagon restrictor, as it looks to me to be a great all around restrictor, but for me and my games the circle is hard to beat.

So what type of gamer are you?  What type restrictor did you grow up using?

[cadmium]

I'm using no restrictor and the hard spring and it's really not that bad. The throw is long, but not uncomfortably so.

[Ummon]

I'm using no restrictor and the hard spring and it's really not that bad. The throw is long, but not uncomfortably so.

Hi all,

Anyone have experience with U360 restrictors to know which one works best for general use across most games?

I have 2 U360's here: one with no restrictor and one with octagonal plate.

Of course I have tested multiple 4-way and 8-way games with each, and personally the octagonal plate feels better, although the stick does not move much with the plate in place.

It depends on what you're used to and what you imagine is okay. 5 degrees is not short to me. Doesn't matter what kind of game it is, unless it's analog, of which I play very few. I have the circular, as I'm used to P360s. Is the octagonal's aperture smaller you think?

[fjl]

schmups?

[erictrumpet]

Sorry I don't have my protractor handy so I have no idea whether my sticks (standard Happ Comps and Galaga/MsPac Reunion 4-way) lean 5 degrees, or 10 or 20 or what. How does the throw of the U360 - in restricted and unrestricted form - compare to "off the shelf" Happ Comps with stock balltop shafts in 3/4" mdf?

My other point of curiosity is how playing 4-ways games like PacMan will feel with a stick that moves like an 8-way Happ comp (that is, circular "restrictor" with no corners in the diamond).... is the lack of physical feedback when you jam it into a particular direction a non-issue when the stick is programmed in 4-way mode, so it always sends the right signal even if your "aim" is slightly off?  I hope I am making sense.

Eric.

[fixedpigs]

schmups?

mainly vertical shooters...1943 & the like...

[whynotpizza]

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback on the topic.

Here are some pictures of the octagonal restrictor in my test control panel.

One interesting thing is the octagonal plate can be mounted 1 of 2 ways, and the inside edges of the opening are slanted. Anyone know which orientation I should use? From the pictures you can get a sense for how I did it. Maybe I should flip around?

What exactly does it mean to be "full analog" in games? Does this mean the stick responds differently to a slight movement vs. a larger movement? i.e. not "Switch" activated ON/OFF but rather potentiometer based -- the more you push one way, the greater the impact in the game? I'll have to try the games you mentioned in this thread with the U360's. A related question is the concept of 49-way. What exactly is this? Sorry for the silly questions.

Thanks for the help,

  David

[whynotpizza]

> after burner, terminator 2, starwars

Tried all three in mode restrictor and non-restrictor (octogonal) modes.

I think I got the concept here. Having a restrictor for games like that is probably not the best. It works, but if you plan to do full-analog and have variable actions as a result of moving the stick varying degrees of movement, then you want no-restrictor at all.

U360 in analog mode is very nice for these kinds of games. Now I need to think about how best to implement my control panel with varying types of configs/games/etc.

Ah the choices... 

Sure would be nice to bolt the HAPP tripper/thumb button heavy duty 8-way digital flight stick over the top of this U360 control circuit. Then I could use the heavy duty stick in digital and analog modes.

[erictrumpet]

One of the games I am thinking of getting U360s for (please correct me if I am wrong in thinking the U360 would work well for this game) is Sinistar. Originally for a 49-way, works well with an analog, I figured U360 would work great for Sinistar. Thoughts?

David, is the octagonal hole in the restrictor plate cut at a bevel (angle)? It almost looks like you may have it in upside-down. Could just be the photo playing tricks on me. *EDIT* - Nevermind, I can see how the bevel should be the way you have it, because the black plastic "bearing" rubs against it at a slant - you have it in place correctly (as far as I can tell anyway).

Eric.

[TheShanMan]

Whynotpizza, check the wiki here for the joystick topic. I'm sure it explains 49 way joysticks.

As for how to put the restrictor on, I think it has that slant due to the fact that the joystick will be slanted when it comes in contact with the restrictor. Therefore my guess is the smaller side would go towards the top of the joystick.

[whynotpizza]

> it almost looks like you may have it in upside-down

Agreed, that is what it appears. However, when you push the stick to one side, the angle lines up with the angle of the restrictor plate better, when the plate is oriented as I have in the picture. So ... I think this is the proper orientation.

BTW...

I am using the optional hard spring (IMHO this is much better and should be used when configuring the U360). I am also using the longer shaft with BAT top (preferred over Ball top). This will enable me to mount under 3/4" MDF on the control panel surface.

[Necro]

Bit confused on some of the things I'm reading on this- is the U360 with the default handles (I'm particularly interested in the ball-top) made for a metal CP?  And does the current incarnation of the joystick come with what everyone calls the heavy or the medium spring? 

(Leaning towards this for my cab, but want to be 100% positive before I purchase something this expensive.)

[whynotpizza]

The U360 default comes with standard spring. IMHO you definitely need the heavier duty spring (which is an optional purchase).

The default U360 also comes with a standard size shaft, which is ready for Ball Top. I am not familiar with mounting in metal, so not sure how best to answer your question. From what I can tell you probably could get away with buying the default U360 in Ball top config and that should be fine. Certainly get the longer shafts if you want, but my guess is both default and longer shafts for Ball top would work fine in metal control panels, more of a matter of preference than anything. A suggestion would be to email Andy at www.ultimarc.com as he would be very helpful in answering your questions.

[TheShanMan]

The longer shafts are only slightly longer, so you probably won't even notice the difference. I went with the longer on my metal panel simply because I put the dust washers below the control panel, resulting in increased depth, so I figured the longer handle would roughly make up for that difference. But in retrospect I think I would have been equally happy with the shorter ones.

[Ummon]

A whole centimeter is a big difference to me in this case because I sit down at my rig, though even standing and using the stock shaft with a ball top my knuckles would be resting on the panel surface. The sticks come either bat or ball; the shaft lengths are strictly for height preference.

Also, one might look up my 'alternative options' thread to get any idea of how short a throw can be set on this stick. I just haven't decided whether I want to have a new actuator made, or just JB weld the mod piece on in the mean time.

[u_rebelscum]

I'm late, but I think some of this wasn't addressed

What exactly does it mean to be "full analog" in games? Does this mean the stick responds differently to a slight movement vs. a larger movement? i.e. not "Switch" activated ON/OFF but rather potentiometer based -- the more you push one way, the greater the impact in the game? I'll have to try the games you mentioned in this thread with the U360's. A related question is the concept of 49-way. What exactly is this? Sorry for the silly questions.

In my books, "full analog" is a game that needs 256 values per axis (the normal number of values in an analog axis).  Games like Term2 need 256x256 grid to hit "everything" on the screen, since the analog x, y value the joystick sends directly maps to a point on the screen; a 7x7 grid wouldn't work, since then you could only hit 49 spots.

"Reduced" analog games can work with smaller numbers, 16x16 or 7x7.  These games usually use the analog stick to control a character's direction and speed, and usually only have something like 16 directions and 3 speeds, like food fight or sinistar.  A 7x7 grid can cover that.  (But foodfight will do better with true analog.)

Which leads to 49-way joysticks/games.  They were games designed as "reduced" analog games, to use "reduced" analog sticks.  Each axis had 3 optical sensors.  If centered, all sensors were blocked, and as the stick is moved from center, sensors are uncovered in an order depending on the direction moved.  There are only a few games with the stick, and there actually were two different 49-way sticks.  Sinistar, Blaster, Arch Rivals, and Pig Skin are the four with the inputs emulated in mame and used the old (and some say better) "spider" springed sticks.  Blitz, Gauntlet Legends, NBA Showtime, and other games on same hardware could use either 8-way sticks, or midway/atari 49-way sticks that you now see at happs.  Mame emulates the dipswitch to select between the two.  However, mame does not emulate the 49-way inputs of these games ATM.  As you might have noticed, I consider 7x7 as "reduced" analog.

Anyway, mame treats 49-way inputs as any other analog stick input, and does any needed conversion inside the game's driver.  So, any analog stick works in mame.  There are 49-way to USB encoders out there, so the 49-way joysticks work, too.  They convert the weird 49-way signal to standard USB analog joystick signal.  So these sticks will "work" in mame.  But playing term2 with only 49 points to hit sucks.

And last, and least important to most people except wackos like me...
There also were analog sticks that didn't use POTs.  The next most common (but still rare), Atari had "Hall Effect" joysticks, and u360 uses that effect, too.  Short info: Hall Effect = magnets and sensors that detect the strength of them.  But POT based or Hall Effect based, analog is analog.  Heck, people have replaced a POT with Hall Effect sensors (flight sim people, mostly, for "better control") without a problem, and vice versa.  For mame, don't worry about analog vs Halls vs 49-way; all are analog inputs, and the u360 will work.  (It matters if you have the original cab and want to fix it, of course.)

[Necro]

Unless I'm reading the wiki wrong, there's going to be a difference between a 49 way and an analog though...you allude to it.  May not be entirely noticable, but there will be a difference due to the increased resolution of the 'real' analog.

or am I misunderstanding this?

[u_rebelscum]

Unless I'm reading the wiki wrong, there's going to be a difference between a 49 way and an analog though...you allude to it.  May not be entirely noticable, but there will be a difference due to the increased resolution of the 'real' analog.

or am I misunderstanding this?

You got it, but it really, really depends on the game.

Yes, 49-way is a "(highly) reduced" analog, and games that a higher res than 7x7 make a difference will have, err, a difference in control between a 49-way stick & full analog stick:
Term2 is very noticable with 49-way. 
Reduced analog games that convert a full analog stick into, say, a 10x10 grid (or "100-way"), using a 49-way stick will be much like Marble Madness & TB is in mame: only half the grid can be reached, but probably not noticeable. 
Sinistar (or any other 49-way game), OTOH, no difference between 49-way & full analog (besides the physical feel of the respective joysticks), because mame converts a full analog stick into a 49-way stick as part of the emulation.

[EddieArcadian]

Updating this old thread for back to the future readers.  Andy/Ultimarc has just re-modeled and updated his version of the U360 Octagon restrictor plates to increase the throw a tad bit, and also correct the mounting holes.  I say "his version", because there are other octo restrictors made for the Sanwa stick that can be used on the 360.

His comment on the update is in this thread:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,139872.0.html