WTF? $ 4500 (you serious?)

[Chase]

I about threw up my dinner when I saw this posting....

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/908919266.html

BTW...it looks like someone took an old Gauntlet Legends and converted it.....meh....

[Chase]

In case the posting is pulled:




Just in time for Christmas!
By now I'm sure you have probably seen other mame arcade machines up on craigslist, but this right here is the best! This machine can play thousands of different classics easily selectable from the control panel, all at their original resolutions! See pac man as it was meant to, play raiden at ear blistering volume, or challenge your family to street fighter. On top of all the basics, it has a state of the art computer at its core, which is able to play all of the new pc and emulated titles. Many people put tvs and lcds in there machines, but this has a massive 29" CRT HD Production monitor. Also if you want to have this for christmas for your special someone, I will also hold it for you if need be.

Other noteworthy mentions include:

Awesome Overclocked 3.8 GHZ Core2 e8400
1 gb of memory
Arcade VGA2 Video card
2.1 Logitech sound system
500gb Hard drive space!

Full media server capabilities

Custom 4 player Control panel! (CNC machined)


One button power on/off


Illuminated Trackball for games like:
--Golden TEE
--Centeped
--Marble madness
--Bowling
--And many more

2 LCD Topguns With integrated sensors build into the monitor surround.


Illuminated Coin door

[Jack Burton]

The thing is, you know whoever built that has got to read this forum.  So there's a good chance they'll read this thread.

From my discussions with other members in various threads about how much cabs cost to build from scratch, 4500 is within reality.  Some people will spend $2000 on tools alone.

So, while I think somebody would be out of their mind to pay $4500 for that when there are much better and cheaper options out there, it is not as crazy as I, and you the OP used to think. 

It getting more common to find these on craigslist these days it seems.  This is like the fourth overpriced cab thead I've seen in the last couple of months.

[Franco B]

I dont see the big deal. It looks quite nice to me. Its obvious s/he has put a lot of time and money into it with the CNC cut panel and everything else.

Its not like he is selling the roms with it, he only says it is capable of playing them which is fair.

If s/he gets that price for it good on them. If you dont like it, dont buy it.

[BASS!]

The thing is, you know whoever built that has got to read this forum.  So there's a good chance they'll read this thread.

From my discussions with other members in various threads about how much cabs cost to build from scratch, 4500 is within reality.  Some people will spend $2000 on tools alone.

So, while I think somebody would be out of their mind to pay $4500 for that when there are much better and cheaper options out there, it is not as crazy as I, and you the OP used to think. 

It getting more common to find these on craigslist these days it seems.  This is like the fourth overpriced cab thead I've seen in the last couple of months.

      Whatcha know, yes they do frequent this forum, and that horrible person is me. As with anyone who has built their own machines finds out is how much they cost to put together in parts alone skyrockets exponentially, and something that should cost a certain amount invariably ends up costing more than it would initially seems. After buying all of my tools to complete my machine and all of the guts, paint, programs and supplies I got into this machine for what it would cost to buy it brand new.
      While I built this I tried to spare no expense. I had the control panel machined, I bought all performance pc parts, I bought the best cooling I thought it could need; I bought legal copies of xp, maximus arcade, and a bunch of other pc based games.  Then I spent 2 months customizing the os, designing all of the graphics, setting up the frontend and all of the games to run perfectly, bundled the insides up nice and tidy and stood back I decided I should sell it to fund my other hobbies, one of which is my music.
      Now as someone who does frequent craigslist, I do know what machines are fetching and above all else know that all prices posted are completly arbitrary. If ever I see something that I want, I reply to the seller with what I can afford (if I think it is fair), and haggle a fair price. Once I sell this I plan on offering all of my art skills to print full vinyl artwork (which I plan on posting when I re-post) and shipping to anywhere within 2hours. I also support whoever wants to buy it with my computer skills indefinitely in the event that they need something fixed. I know that the price is steep, and will most likely not get this much, but I am not trying to sell to this forum. I plan on selling this to someone in the area who is young, rich, and loves video games.
      I know that I am asking a lot of money and who knows if it will ever sell, but why not start somewhere.

Yes I am serious, please don't buy this chase, because you should build your own first.

ps. your awesome franco! I am reading your threads as soon as you post on em, please keep up your good work.

[Jack Burton]

     
      Now as someone who does frequent craigslist, I do know what machines are fetching and above all else know that all prices posted are completly arbitrary. If ever I see something that I want, I reply to the seller with what I can afford (if I think it is fair), and haggle a fair price. Once I sell this I plan on offering all of my art skills to print full vinyl artwork (which I plan on posting when I re-post) and shipping to anywhere within 2hours. I also support whoever wants to buy it with my computer skills indefinitely in the event that they need something fixed. I know that the price is steep, and will most likely not get this much, but I am not trying to sell to this forum. I plan on selling this to someone in the area who is young, rich, and loves video games.
      I know that I am asking a lot of money and who knows if it will ever sell, but why not start somewhere.

What can I say?  I would do the same thing. 

I think you should update your posting with pictures of your wiring, links to a youtube vid of your front end in action, and the media center capabilities of the cab.  It will separate your cab from the less expensive alternatives and will help justify your asking price.

[dweebs0r]

I like it.

[wbassett]

It is expensive, but also looks nice too.

I'm sure the monitor alone was just shy of a grand right there.  Depending on if he made the cp himself or had it custom made for him, those puppies can go for a cool $500 right there. and probably at least $350 in the PC.  It all adds up quick.  I have around $850-900 in my cab right now.  It's fully functional and looks 'ok', but it is a temp setup.  I'll probably have almost as much in controls and the swapable cp when finished as I have in it right now, and I original was only thinking this would cost around $600!

I personally wouldn't pay $4500 but as upright said he wasn't targeting us, rather some rich affluent type person that doesn't want to build something- they want it now and working.  And he explained it was a starting price that he'd negotiate on.

I see the same mind sets in the Home Theater realm... those that build a top notch HT room for a couple grand (including the projector) and then those that feel DIY is substandard.  If they really knew what we do with our DIY stuff they'd change their mind but probably still opt to just buy something outright.  The people I'm talking about are not the ones worried about the economy either... they have tons of disposable income and generally they just buy something premade or pay someone to do the work.  I see half a million dollar HTs featured in the mags all the time and none of them are worth that kind of money in my opinion, yet someone is spending the money.   I think people that buy premade cabs like this and those $3grand ones I've seen online or even at Sam's Club are those type of people too.  They don't think about the cost, they just want something.

Tools-  Yeah they can rack up in cost but I personally don't count tool costs for a project because they will be used for other things too.  If it's a dedicated tool and will only be used once, then sure add it in, but also try to rent it if you can!

Anyway, I think it's a nice cab, not $4500 nice, but if I had $2000-2500 laying around I'd make an offer

BTW, where did you get your monitor and is it a 4:3 display?  I've been looking around for a large 4:3 HDTV.  They used to make them a couple years back and now you can't find them anywhere.

[Popcorrin]

He can sell it for whatever he wants to but it's kinda funny that he flags others that try to sell their cabs for the same price.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82816.msg864769#msg864769     

[Franco B]

He can sell it for whatever he wants to but it's kinda funny that he flags others that try to sell their cabs for the same price.  http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=82816.msg864769#msg864769    

It sounds like the one he flagged was a POS. Its hard to tell without seeing the listing.

By the way, I didn't realise it was your cab Sam, I thought I recognised the marquee from somewhere though (your artwork thread). Good luck with the sale.

[Chase]

Yes I am serious, please don't buy this chase, because you should build your own first.

I am actually, and I do know all the costs involved with building a cabinet from a kit.  (Not a conversion)

So when I saw the post, I thought it was extremely expensive based upon the information that was provided in the listing.

He can sell it for whatever he wants to but it's kinda funny that he flags others that try to sell their cabs for the same price. 

It sounds like the one he flagged was a POS. Its hard to tell without seeing the listing.

The only reason I could see of why it would be flagged was because the seller was selling the MAME cabinet with the Roms?   Because, if there was any other reason invloved, (Like price too high), that would be kinda hypocritical?

----

Personally, I hate how sometimes words come across on a screen when you are trying to do something "tongue in cheek".   I had a feeling that the person who is selling on CL, could be a member of this forum.   Nothing offensive was meant by my comment, so I apoligize if it was taken the wrong way.

I just feel that $ 4500.00 for a conversion is a little high.

Thanks,
C

[DaveMMR]

It's a nice, well-built cab but I do have to agree $4,500 might be a bit of a reach of an asking price for a couple of reasons.

1) Just rifling through the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog, they're selling an Arcade Legends 100 Game system for $3,700 (plus $200 shipping).  Yes, your machine has the potential for more games but you can't legally leave the ROMs in there, so I will assume they aren't included for sake of argument.  So for the non-technically inclined in the market for an upright machine (read: people who wouldn't build their own or know where to begin getting ROMs and configuring), they would probably go for the mass-marketed machine with the no-hassle software that's a few hundred dollars (after shipping and taxes) cheaper. 

By the way, reviews of these professionally built multi-game machines are immaterial considering the targeted buyer.  Also, while it might be a bit unfair to compare the two given what's inside uprightbass's box, but I'm assuming interested parties would be looking for an "arcade machine" and not so much a top-of-the-line computer/display.

2) To again compare it to cheaper mass-produced cabs for the niche home game room market, you have a couple of design decisions that fair poorly:  exposed trackball-plate, excessive buttons and angled controls that are parallel to neither the monitor nor the curve of the front of the panel.  Despite my opinions of them, they are not  big, crippling problems for your own personally built machine.  When competing with other available options, however, they do stand out as flaws.  

But, seriously, it's a good looking machine with some sick hardware (you might actually have better results selling the computer, monitor, et. al. separately).  The design is solid and it looks like it was put together very well.  Hopefully I'm wrong about the price tag being too high.  Keep us posted.

Edit: Grammar

[(+_+)]

You can't expect people to pay for your upfront costs such as tools, development expenses etc. I know as well as anybody, the expense that goes into building a nice cab but tools, trial and error, going overboard isn't a pill most costumers want to swallow. But then again, there are loads of fish in the sea and apparently a sucker born every minute. Good luck and if your sucker has another rich buddy, I'd be willing to let mine go for $6,000. 

[ark_ader]

Does it have a spinner?

I remember a wide screen cab somebody was selling for $4500 and it didn't have a spinner.

Spinners rule. 

[Visitor Q]

 

Looks ok to me, I don't think that price is too crazy really.

I see it is no longer listed, maybe it sold?

[Cakemeister]

Angled joysticks were not the way to go, IMO.

[Ummon]

Angled joysticks were not the way to go, IMO.

Though there are some who feel this way regarding CPs in general, it seems nearly a consensus with regard to 4-player panels. Why?

As for the machine itself, it's a real mame machine rather than those hacks or odd-looking things that many people post.

[DaveMMR]

Angled joysticks were not the way to go, IMO.

Though there are some who feel this way regarding CPs in general, it seems nearly a consensus with regard to 4-player panels. Why?

It's been discussed numerous times on the forum, but let's just say that 99.9997% of commercial arcade games keep joysticks in the same orientation (even 4-p games).  There's probably a reason for that.   

[brandon]

Angled joysticks were not the way to go, IMO.

Though there are some who feel this way regarding CPs in general, it seems nearly a consensus with regard to 4-player panels. Why?

It's been discussed numerous times on the forum, but let's just say that 99.9997% of commercial arcade games keep joysticks in the same orientation (even 4-p games).  There's probably a reason for that.  

you can't play two player Smash TV/ Total Carnage on this cab...  so therefore it sucks! just IMO..   but its a very nice looking cab otherwise..

[fjl]

The pics are gone.

I'd like to see pics of this cab 

[BASS!]

Due to your overwelming response, it has been reposted at cost. If you would like to see it :

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/918536125.html

$2700

[Visitor Q]

I honestly didn't think the original price was that bad. 

[Flake]

Due to your overwelming response, it has been reposted at cost. If you would like to see it :

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/918536125.html

$2700

I didnt think you had that bad of an "overwhelming" response.  Dude you have to do what you have to do.  You know what a fair price is?  The amount mutually agreed upon between two parties for services rendered/products received.  If someone is willing to pay your price then good for the both of you.  They get a nice finished product and you get cash.  How many hours did you spend configuring that thing?  How much is that time worth?  Probably alot in both cases.

Dont let people tell you what you should sell something for.  If they dont think its fair then they shouldnt buy it.  This is a bad forum to discuss this anyway because everyone here is passionate about these machines and they like to do the work and are more than willing to spend the time on it.  Someone else may not have the time or may not want to spend the time on it.

If I were you my only consideration would be your competition.  I think for $4500 someone could buy a nice Dream Authentics build for that much and that may be a better cabinet - although I have no experience with them.

[Visitor Q]

Well said... Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. As a seller you want the most $$$ and as a buyer you want to spend the least amount of $$$.

[ChadTower]

You can't expect people to pay for your upfront costs such as tools, development expenses etc.

No kidding.  If you want to charge for cost of tools you have to include them in the sale. 

[thatitalian]

An item is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay, that is simply good business. I you take into account the setup cost, labour, materials, any other variable costs and then absorb your fixed costs into that cabinet using an OAR based on labour hours, you're not far of that price to be fair! Not that I am in business mode or anything because I am studying for exams.... 

But seriously, some people keep their cabs, others sell them. I plan on selling mine after for OOONE MILLLLON DOLLLLARS!!! Lol. No seriously, I wouldn't sell it, so you can't buy it!

I think we should congratulate him if he gets that price! I would be happy to have $4500 in my pocket! Wouldn't you? (if you're not happy you obviously have TOO much money, so I suggest you donate some to the contributors of this forum )

[Flake]

You can't expect people to pay for your upfront costs such as tools, development expenses etc.

No kidding.  If you want to charge for cost of tools you have to include them in the sale. 

This statement is irrelevant.  He is selling for what he thought it was worth and that "worth" in his mind includes tons of man hours to build/configure.  If you can appropriately cost out personal time for a task such as this then you are a smarter man than I.  If he wants to put this up for sale at a price that will help recoup his overall costs then good for him if he gets it.  When a manufacturing company costs out finished good inventory, part of that cost includes a portion of the Company's overhead rate.  In this fashion a company has a much better idea of how much actual cost they have in making a product and they have a better idea of how much they will profit from different price structures.  In this case, his tools are a part of his overhead expenses (along with time) and if he can recoup some or all of those expenses on a sale to someone who willingly pays his asking price then good for him.  Do you expect him to sell this thing at cost? 

People need to ---smurfing--- layoff someone trying to sell a good looking, well-built cabinet for profit.  Do you flame Dream Authentics or Arcades R Fun or Mamemarquees for selling their cabinets?  Probably not.  Do you expect those vendors to sell you a cabinet for only the cost of their parts?  Should they send you their CNC machine along with the purchased cabinet?  They wouldnt be in business if they did.  Get real.  A little common sense here would benefit all.

[ChadTower]

Hey, I could care less what the guy asks for it.  It just bugs me when people throw everything under the sun in with their price rationalization.  Time is part of a project cost - tools are not.  Tools are a setup cost and an asset that remains after the project is finished.  Can't charge for tooling cost starting up a business either.  The customer doesn't care that the screen printer cost you thousands of dollars to set up.  They just want their job printed at market rates.

IMO, his price was high, and it wasn't going to sell in this market, but I don't have a problem with him wanting it.

[Flake]

Hey, I could care less what the guy asks for it.  It just bugs me when people throw everything under the sun in with their price rationalization.  Time is part of a project cost - tools are not.  Tools are a setup cost and an asset that remains after the project is finished.  Can't charge for tooling cost starting up a business either.  The customer doesn't care that the screen printer cost you thousands of dollars to set up.  They just want their job printed at market rates.

IMO, his price was high, and it wasn't going to sell in this market, but I don't have a problem with him wanting it.

Actually a manufacturing company will allocate a portion of the depreciation expense for machinery into their overhead rate which gets applied to finished good inventory so fixed asset purchase costs are included into the cost the finished good.  And no company in their right mind will sell the product for less than their finished good cost unless that product is considered obsolete or its long-term marketability has suffered for one reason or another and they have no choice but to sell it for what the market bears.

So like I said, if the market will give him $4500 then he has a right to profit or at the very least recoup his costs.

[ChadTower]

Depreciation is different than setup cost.  He wasn't talking about wear and tear on his tools.  He was talking about their retail cost.

[Flake]

Depreciation is different than setup cost.  He wasn't talking about wear and tear on his tools.  He was talking about their retail cost.

Your not following me.  Depreciation is how companies "expense" their fixed asset purchases.  When they purchase a fixed asset for long-term use they place that asset on the books and depreciation is a way to systematically expense or "cost" the purchase price of this asset over time.  This expense is not a "setup cost".  Its just part of the overall overhead cost - which does and should get costed into the finished good costing.  A setup cost is a cost incurred, mostly man hours, to change the production process or cycle in one way or another.  And those costs are definitely figured into the cost of the finished good.  Again, if a company ignored setup costs in costing out the finished good then they would be missing a large chunk of the actual cost in producing said good.

Anyway, I digress, in this case I would liken his purchase of tools to a company's purchase of fixed asset machinery.  It is a needed cost to produce the product and the only difference here really is that he is recouping his depreciation expense through one sale in a short time period rather than through several thousand sales over multiple years.

Anyway, if you dont see my point then I thats fine but I give up trying to explain this.  I'm not getting anything done at work.

[ChadTower]

  Its just part of the overall overhead cost - which does and should get costed into the finished good costing. 

Okay, let's get back to the topic, then... this is a one-off item and not a business.  What you say works in a sustainable business.  He is not one of those.  He can't expect a single customer to bear the entire setup/tooling cost.  It drives his price way too damn high.

[mountain]

Okay, let's get back to the topic,

I think $4,500 is a steal for someone who has no clue how to do it themselves. Will he get it, probably not. I quoted building a cabinet to member on here a few months ago for around the same price. I calculated a labor rate that would make it worth my while and ballparked all of the controls.

I would never pay someone to put new siding, doors, windows, gutters, and roof on my house. So I did it myself a few summers ago. Mainly because I am cheep. Yet there are people that don't have the skills, tools, or time take on such a project. So, they pull out their check books.

The price is fair, just not a reality.

[Flake]

  Its just part of the overall overhead cost - which does and should get costed into the finished good costing. 

Okay, let's get back to the topic, then... this is a one-off item and not a business.  What you say works in a sustainable business.  He is not one of those.  He can't expect a single customer to bear the entire setup/tooling cost.  It drives his price way too damn high.

Dammit your sucking me back in............first off, the issue of market price isnt based on cost, its based on supply and demand.  My explanation of cost is and what goes into that cost is so that companies know how profitable they truly are on a certain product.  If he gets $4500 for this machine than thats the price the market will bear.  

Secondly, a business has several years to recoup that cost and this guy (assuming he is not going into business building cabs - which he might) has only a one time chance to recoup his cost.  If a business knew that they were only going to have a short window to recoup their costs they would make sure the product they are producing has a market value profitablie enough to recoup their manufacturing costs in that shorter window or they wouldnt produce the product.  

[Popcorrin]

Due to your overwelming response, it has been reposted at cost. If you would like to see it :

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/918536125.html

$2700

That's a pretty good deal, especially considering the system that's in there.  What brand of monitor are you using?  I assume it is multisync since you are using the arcadevga.

[drawfull]

To add to what's gone before, if it was local to me, if the £ was stronger, I think it's a good deal. I have 5 dedicated machines which cost me about £6k all told. I can't remember. But they are MINT.

This IS MINT TOO although it's not clear if custom art is £££ extra. £2.5 - 3k with the backup, support and dedication is a fair price TO ME, and I hope he gets its true worth. Shiiite, the juke we're doing for the mrs already stands me at £800+, and that doesn't include the laptop which was £700+VAT a couple of years ago!!!!

[BASS!]

I wasn't really charging for the tools. The only tools I used and didn't just borrow was a jigsaw and a hand drill. Table saw, drill press, skill saw, and belt sander were the neighbors. The monitor is a Mitsubishi multisync. It will actually take all the way from 200x200 - 720x480 interlaced of course. I think I could get it to go higher but you have to completely recalibrate the size settings for 800x600 and up.
    I mostly put the art option in to gauge what the client wants. If they have a paint that matches their house I could use that, or if they have a video game character they like I could design that as well. If they want a vinyl space invaders backdrop then they tell me. It only costs about 150 for a set of side art, if they were serious, I would definitely throw it in for good will. I have already lost all the money I am going to loose, selling it just seems like a good idea to help fund my other endeavors.

[Popcorrin]

The Mitsubishi's are pretty versatile.  Most of them run all the way up to 1024x768 and sometimes 1280x1024.  I had one and I had to do just like you said, resize, but it saved the settings so it worked out great.   How did you get that monitor to fit in that cab?  The one I had was box shaped and pretty thick.  Doesn't look like that cab is deep enough to fit it?

[BASS!]

The monitor has 2 frames. I removed the plastic casing which comes all the way up to the bezel. From there I pulled out a blanket and my handy dremel tool and removed about 3 1/2 inches of plastic that the crt mounts to, and put it inside the monitor inside the cab. The original monitor mounting brackets I then reused as a ramp set to an angle so that the front of the screen is even with the tilt of the cabinet. From there I used metal fence / deck brackets to secure the monitor from sliding further back. Even with all the parts removed the monitor probably still weighs in at around 200lbs (my ultimate max dead weight capacity). I essentially set it on the edge of the ramp and used truck tie downs to ease it into position and screwed everything together. The max of this monitor is around 1280x1024 (but the avga will only output these resolutions over its dvi connector, so 15khz resolutions only) I run xp on it at 720x480 and mame games default 640x240 (it does autoswitch though). There is a couple resolutions that do have issues, but I have completely removed them from mame, so it is able to do all the others. If memory serves it will not run X x 255 (mortal kombat right?) but that is a easy stretch.

[Ummon]

Angled joysticks were not the way to go, IMO.

Though there are some who feel this way regarding CPs in general, it seems nearly a consensus with regard to 4-player panels. Why?

It's been discussed numerous times on the forum, but let's just say that 99.9997% of commercial arcade games keep joysticks in the same orientation (even 4-p games).  There's probably a reason for that.  

I for some reason was thinking sloped panel, as it seems most people who do 4P panels make them flat.

[garnerb350]

Man...I just want to know where the heck did you find a 29' CRT monitor?

[hypernova]

Angled joys are a bad idea.  I didn't listen, and that's the one thing I regret on my first and only cab.  It'll be a long while before I'm ever able to change it, if ever.  I could probably get by with rerouting the same top, but to do that, I'd have to remove everything from it before hand, and not tangle all the wires, PLUS the 60 or so LEDs in there.  I'd also have to locate some aesthetically pleasing plugs for the existing bolt holes that would be unused once I rotated the joys.
The more possible option years in the future is just redoing the entire cab structure.  I've still got my idea on what to do, and it should garner some attention.

I think you should've spread out the coin/start buttons for easier access for P3/4.

I personally like the exposed track plate, with its textured goodness.  It's flat, and doesn't get in the way.

No spinner, ark_ader.

[TPB]

I remember a wide screen cab somebody was selling for $4500 and it didn't have a spinner.

That was the cab from Zombie Controls ?

The wide screen distorted the game display by stretching it horizontally.