Pinball Plunger and Circuit

[thatitalian]

Hey guys,

I am looking to add a plunger to my project. I have found one here. It is the one at the very top for reference. Now, I am not 100% on how to actually mount this, however I am more concerned about how this will function. My plan was to have a microleaf at the top of the plunger so that as the plunger is pulled and then released it will hit the microleaf when it returns to its resting/starting position (see attached file).

Now, I know the chances of damaging the microleaf is very high, so I would ideally like the circuitry used for this (like in Mountains Project). I am rubbish when it comes to circuits, so is there anywhere that I can buy this or alternatively, is there anyone here who could make it for me?

Thanks guys!

EDIT: For some reason it won't let me attach, so here it is
[img=http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/4804/plungerwithmicroswitchsn7.th.png]

[Franco B]

I wouldn't use a microleaf or regular microswitch. Personally I think you want a leaf switch assembly. I could knock you one up if you like, I have some 0.015" steel shim that would be perfect, the rest of the assembly would be fairly easy too.

The wiring is simple too, connect one of the leafs to ground and the other to the input of the encoder.

[thatitalian]

Jesus Franco, is there anything you can't do??? I always wanted my own plane.... any chances?

That would be awesome mate! Again, really appreciate it! What were you thinking in terms of how it would operate (e.g. look, etc?)

[Franco B]

No problem. Ill knock you up a quick CAD model later. Im basically thinking of a 90 degree bracket that you can screw to the CP base or side with two shims mounted horizontally that will actuate at the end of the plungers travel. Ill put a ring terminal on each side of the assembley to crimp the wires onto.

As for planes, I dont know if Aldi have any on offer but you can get them pretty cheap from ScrewFix   

[thatitalian]

Hahaha, very funny!  I was talking about the aero type!

[Franco B]

You dont say

[Dazz]

Ugh, looks like there is an issue with attachments....

I too have a real pinball plunger on my cabinet...  It is one of my favorite parts and was a must have with my love of pinball.  One word of advice.... DO NOT USE A MICROSWITCH.  John from John's Retro Arcade designed a Pinball Plunger Circuit.  This is an circuit that requires an optical switch and is a million times better than any of the microswitch solutions that I have seen.  If you can't build the circuit then I would imagine that someone around here would be willing to if you purchased all of the necessary parts.

This is how I have my plunger setup.

[thatitalian]

Hey Dazz,

Could you post it to a hosting site then post a link?

(off topic: how is HS progressing? How is the theme installer coming along?)

[Dazz]

Hey Dazz,

Could you post it to a hosting site then post a link?

(off topic: how is HS progressing? How is the theme installer coming along?)

To my image or to the actual circuit?

BTW - The theme installer is on hold for now, but installing a theme is as simple as extracting it to the correct directory now.  There is no more need to update the xml database unless you want a custom list.  HS now has an option to have a full XML and it will only list games on the wheel that you have a theme for.  Right now focus has switched to killing bugs and Bill is working on HyperHQ, which is the new config utility that will be real easy to use and set up HS.  If you haven't checked HS out in a while then I highly suggest that you swing by and give it another chance... 

[thatitalian]

Hey Dazz,

Could you post it to a hosting site then post a link?

(off topic: how is HS progressing? How is the theme installer coming along?)

To my image or to the actual circuit? 

To both if you can!

I always swing by the HS site! Love the frontend! I recently updated the software, but haven't read over the new process. Will drop past and have a read!

[Dazz]

Hey Dazz,

Could you post it to a hosting site then post a link?

(off topic: how is HS progressing? How is the theme installer coming along?)

To my image or to the actual circuit? 

To both if you can!

I always swing by the HS site! Love the frontend! I recently updated the software, but haven't read over the new process. Will drop past and have a read!

[thatitalian]

Where did you get the plunger and physical circuit from? That plunger looks super easy to mount! And that circuit means nothing to me!

Like, I said, I am rubbish with this stuff!

Could anyone assist with construction, I am more than willing to pay!

[Franco B]

Hmm, I see the pinball emulators let you control the strength of the ball release by holding down a key.

You could do the same thing mechanicaly as the optical sensor by making a leaf switch set up but by making the circuit normally closed (NC) and attaching one of the leafs to the end of the plunger. Just a thought.

[mountain]

Hmm, I see the pinball emulators let you control the strength of the ball release by holding down a key.

You could do the same thing mechanicaly as the optical sensor by making a leaf switch set up but by making the circuit normally closed (NC) and attaching one of the leafs to the end of the plunger. Just a thought.

I was going to try that but I liked the cool factor of using something non-mechanical. I feared that over time the leaf would wear out. 

I chose to use a reflective opto-switch to sense the presence of the plunger's home position and a debounce circuit to remove any bouncing effects from the plunger. Without a debounce, the bounce of the plunger after release would behave like hitting the assigned plunger key in Visual Pinball repeatedly.

Plus, after reading this from John's retro arcade, I didn't want to revisit the plunger down the road if it failed to work correctly using the leafs. The plunger circuit is perfect, I am very happy with it.

[thatitalian]

How did you go about creating the circuit? I thought the same thing about it wearing, but as I am not good with circuits it seemed like the only option!

I would like the optical route to be honest, could you assist?

The only thing I know about circuits is using an etching pen and etching tanks to create the layout....... that is about it really!

[CrazyKongFan]

How did you go about creating the circuit? I thought the same thing about it wearing, but as I am not good with circuits it seemed like the only option!

The only thing I know about circuits is using an etching pen and etching tanks to create the layout....... that is about it really!

Something that simple, you should be able to build it using perf-board.

[RandyT]

My humble opinion on the optical circuit is that it's overkill and will additionally give the plunger a less realistic bounce as there is nothing for it to slam against.

Honestly, for this type of plunger control, you only need to mount a button so that the buttons plunger is facing the rubber end of the pinball plunger.  Connect the wiring to the NC terminal of the microswitch instead of the NO terminal so that the switch is open when depressed.  Then position the button so that the switch is actuated (open) when the plunger is at rest.

Should do the same thing and no circuits to build.

RandyT

[Dazz]

Honestly, the optical is the best way to go if you are going to use a real plunger...  I don't see how it is overkill, I see how it is more of a necessity if you want to have a real plunger.  I have seen how people pull my plunger and let it go just to do so.  Without anything mechanical to worry about I couldn't care less.  Anything mechanical is going to wear out and hitting a button hard in the same spot over and over will eventually break it.  The optical just makes more sense in this case...

The optimal setup, just shy of having a real machine, would be what I was originally going to do using a track with a real pinball inside it.  You could pull back and the switch would activate, release the switch would close, and then the plunger would hit the ball that is in the track to give it that more real bounce.  A piece of high density foam or some of that NASA created foam they use in beds would be at the end of the track to stop the ball and roll it back into place.  I actually had this in my control panel design, but I figured the ball would cause unwanted bounceback on the plunger.  I think I am going to re-visit this idea with my next control panel.

[RandyT]

Honestly, the optical is the best way to go if you are going to use a real plunger...  I don't see how it is overkill, I see how it is more of a necessity if you want to have a real plunger.  I have seen how people pull my plunger and let it go just to do so.  Without anything mechanical to worry about I couldn't care less.  Anything mechanical is going to wear out and hitting a button hard in the same spot over and over will eventually break it.  The optical just makes more sense in this case...

Sorry, this assertion just isn't grounded in fact.  A normal arcade pushbutton was designed for more abuse than the spring on a pinball plunger will dish out.  It's not hard to find buttons over 20 years old that have not only survived, but show no signs of even weakening.  The pin plunger also has a nice soft, compressible tip to help absorb some of the shock. 

I'm not saying that the optical solution isn't a good one, just that it's not necessary to get to the same destination.  But if going this route, I would suggest some sort of stop to avoid the "ain't no ball in the chute" spring oscillation.  This can be as simple a block of wood at the end of the travel, with or without something additional to cushion the impact than the already cushioned tip on the plunger.

The optimal setup, just shy of having a real machine, would be what I was originally going to do using a track with a real pinball inside it.

In all actuality, none of this is optimal for a pinball plunger as the function is purely "cosmetic".  For all of this extra effort, one should realize a gameplay benefit, but this type of setup offers no more control than the original simple switch.  So that brings me to a question;  what method is supported in pinball games for plunger position other than a simple digital switch?  Anything?  I mean, a very interesting circuit can still be devised even if this is the only method available, but there would be less "realism".

RandyT

[Shieldwolf]

thatitalian,

I had the same problem. I've been looking for the best way to attach my plunger. I agree the microswitch will get damaged way too easily. 

[javeryh]

Randy - if you made an out of the box solution for a pinball plunger I'm willing to bet a lot of us would buy it...  just an idea...

[RandyT]

Randy - if you made an out of the box solution for a pinball plunger I'm willing to bet a lot of us would buy it...  just an idea...

I've been mulling this for a long while.  I have a few ideas, unfortunately, non of them "cheap".  The one thing I want to avoid is an expensive solution that has little support, which is why I asked the question above.

So does anyone know if there is a standardized method in the most common pin apps to get a variable plunger action?

RandyT

[Tim N.]

Honestly, the optical is the best way to go if you are going to use a real plunger...  I don't see how it is overkill, I see how it is more of a necessity if you want to have a real plunger.  I have seen how people pull my plunger and let it go just to do so.  Without anything mechanical to worry about I couldn't care less.  Anything mechanical is going to wear out and hitting a button hard in the same spot over and over will eventually break it.  The optical just makes more sense in this case...

Sorry, this assertion just isn't grounded in fact.  A normal arcade pushbutton was designed for more abuse than the spring on a pinball plunger will dish out.  It's not hard to find buttons over 20 years old that have not only survived, but show no signs of even weakening.  The pin plunger also has a nice soft, compressible tip to help absorb some of the shock. 

I'm not saying that the optical solution isn't a good one, just that it's not necessary to get to the same destination.  But if going this route, I would suggest some sort of stop to avoid the "ain't no ball in the chute" spring oscillation.  This can be as simple a block of wood at the end of the travel, with or without something additional to cushion the impact than the already cushioned tip on the plunger.

The optimal setup, just shy of having a real machine, would be what I was originally going to do using a track with a real pinball inside it.

In all actuality, none of this is optimal for a pinball plunger as the function is purely "cosmetic".  For all of this extra effort, one should realize a gameplay benefit, but this type of setup offers no more control than the original simple switch.  So that brings me to a question;  what method is supported in pinball games for plunger position other than a simple digital switch?  Anything?  I mean, a very interesting circuit can still be devised even if this is the only method available, but there would be less "realism".

RandyT

Exactly.... I really don't know why people are so fascinated by adding a plunger onto their cab other than cosmetics... Plunging- regardless of opto, leaf, micro, whatever, is still determined by length of time a switch is activated in VP, so it isn't going to really feel real (other than pulling on a plunger)... The real solution would be something in regards to a string of 8-12 optos in which the plunger pulled back to certain depths would trigger the appropriate strength depending on the last opto interrupted (or open, or whatever)... When I did my multipin I even opted away from the plunger on purpose (went with a Williams launch button) as games like Jurassic Park, Lethal Weapon, etc rely on a button instead of a plunger for in game functions (not just launching a ball) that would be impossible with a plunger as a substitute...

[mountain]

Exactly.... I really don't know why people are so fascinated by adding a plunger onto their cab other than cosmetics... Plunging- regardless of opto, leaf, micro, whatever, is still determined by length of time a switch is activated in VP, so it isn't going to really feel real (other than pulling on a plunger)... The real solution would be something in regards to a string of 8-12 optos in which the plunger pulled back to certain depths would trigger the appropriate strength depending on the last opto interrupted (or open, or whatever)... When I did my multipin I even opted away from the plunger on purpose (went with a Williams launch button) as games like Jurassic Park, Lethal Weapon, etc rely on a button instead of a plunger for in game functions (not just launching a ball) that would be impossible with a plunger as a substitute...

I don't know if I would call it a fascination, but I really like my plunger/optoswitch setup. It's a novelty piece. The plunger automatically grabs attention, sparks conversations, and encourages game play with visitors.

The reason for having it goes along the same lines as putting the buttons on the side of the control panel. You could just map the buttons from P1 and P2, but what fun is that? When playing VP, with the simulated table down in front of me, my hands and fingers in the basic pinball position, I am getting close to the real deal. The plunger just takes it a little closer. That's the whole point of these homemade machines, at least for me; arcade games as well as pinball games.

[Tim N.]

Exactly.... I really don't know why people are so fascinated by adding a plunger onto their cab other than cosmetics... Plunging- regardless of opto, leaf, micro, whatever, is still determined by length of time a switch is activated in VP, so it isn't going to really feel real (other than pulling on a plunger)... The real solution would be something in regards to a string of 8-12 optos in which the plunger pulled back to certain depths would trigger the appropriate strength depending on the last opto interrupted (or open, or whatever)... When I did my multipin I even opted away from the plunger on purpose (went with a Williams launch button) as games like Jurassic Park, Lethal Weapon, etc rely on a button instead of a plunger for in game functions (not just launching a ball) that would be impossible with a plunger as a substitute...

I don't know if I would call it a fascination, but I really like my plunger/optoswitch setup. It's a novelty piece. The plunger automatically grabs attention, sparks conversations, and encourages game play with visitors.

The reason for having it goes along the same lines as putting the buttons on the side of the control panel. You could just map the buttons from P1 and P2, but what fun is that? When playing VP, with the simulated table down in front of me, my hands and fingers in the basic pinball position, I am getting close to the real deal. The plunger just takes it a little closer. That's the whole point of these homemade machines, at least for me; arcade games as well as pinball games.

I may have not been clear, I totally get what you are saying and agree with everything you say... It is cool to see a plunger and play pinball on mame cabs, especially when you can get more people involved... My comments are geared more towards people that say that the plunger should be added on to give VP an authentic feel when it really doesn't at all..... The only thing similar is that you are pulling on something.... A plunger that doesn't really work like a plunger can be a lot of work for it's limited/inaccurate function... I am curious to see how many people that added plunger added any kind of nudge mechanisms to their project too, as the nudge mechs are a little more realistic than the plunger....

I too am like yourself, I just want people to enjoy everything you can provide them.... I think the whole hobby is fun and every different idea is great, just in the plunger example it truly is a form over function feature.....

[mountain]

I am curious to see how many people that added plunger added any kind of nudge mechanisms to their project too, as the nudge mechs are a little more realistic than the plunger....

I used a shock sensor from a car alarm to pick up bumps to the control panel for the center nudge input. Works real good. 

[Tim N.]

I am curious to see how many people that added plunger added any kind of nudge mechanisms to their project too, as the nudge mechs are a little more realistic than the plunger....

I used a shock sensor from a car alarm to pick up bumps to the control panel for the center nudge input. Works real good. 

Wow, that is a genious idea for sure... Can you nudge directionally with it, or moreso just up and down?

Here is my nudge solution- http://www.ralphwiggum.net/Albums/MultiPin/Multi-Pin/album/Game%20Features/slides/PDR_0376.html

And here is the full project thread- http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81347.0