Dremel CNC Plans

[punxrus]

Just wondering if anyone has ever attempted to build a small Dremel CNC machine? I found plans and am currently thinking about building one.

http://lirtex.com/index.php/cnc

[ChadTower]

Dude that rocks.

[facesmiths]

yup and I wish I had the experiance I have now as I would have done it differntly. I will rebuild it some day but I dont want to fall into that cycle that some guys do buildign one and then tearing it apart and building a better one each time making tiny adjustments to the design and never getting beyond it to build anything else. if you have any questions I can help you with I will be glad to try and answer them. also there is a forum for this sort of thing mine is currently outfitted with a rotozip (MDF dust destroyed my dremel and new dremels are not suited for mounting on such a device.)

[punxrus]

I'll be starting mine this weekend. Still looking for the step motors, but the frame components I already have...I'll take pics and post 'em.

[Franco B]

Very cool 

What amazes me is that he has built such a machine and yet he either does not have the facilities,or just cant think of a technique, to measure its accuracy to more than plus/minus 0.4mm.   

[facesmiths]

if you have not bought your stuff let me know as I have two places you can go to get them and one offers insanely huge motors for very little investment. let me know and I will pm you the info to keep from flooding ads on the board. oh and they offer controllers too at both places. Dont know if you are insistant on using linux but if you are I would love to aska ton of questions as I have as of yet to try that route and really want to. but mine is accurate to with in a few 10,000ths of an inch and repeatability with in 6 to 7 10,000ths though I have to admit I cheated and made many of my parts on a hand ran bench top 750lbs mill so I had an advantage. that soft ware the guy is using looks pretty impressive and I really want to try it out but for now I will have to settle for solidworks and hand editing it's Gcode output from max.

[massive88]

Whats the BOM look like for a project like this?  How much (ballpark) are we talkin about?

[punxrus]

if you have not bought your stuff let me know as I have two places you can go to get them and one offers insanely huge motors for very little investment. let me know and I will pm you the info to keep from flooding ads on the board. oh and they offer controllers too at both places. Dont know if you are insistant on using linux but if you are I would love to aska ton of questions as I have as of yet to try that route and really want to. but mine is accurate to with in a few 10,000ths of an inch and repeatability with in 6 to 7 10,000ths though I have to admit I cheated and made many of my parts on a hand ran bench top 750lbs mill so I had an advantage. that soft ware the guy is using looks pretty impressive and I really want to try it out but for now I will have to settle for solidworks and hand editing it's Gcode output from max.

Yeah... let me know where and how much! As for Linux....google is your friend...but feel free to ask.

[Games001]

That's the coolest friggin thing I ever did seen!!!

F.S., how much might it cost to build one, in general, and how long would one take you to build these days?

And would you consider building one for those of us with NO skills whatsoever?

[SithMaster]

How does the software account for differences in motors?

So who's going to use these to build cabinets.   

[punxrus]

How does the software account for differences in motors?

So who's going to use these to build cabinets.   

I'm going to make the worlds smallest arcade and then....TAKE OVER THE WORLD! 

[Ed_McCarron]

How does the software account for differences in motors?

Typically, the program draws (cuts?) a line.  You measure it and tell the software how long it is.  It can then calibrate its pulses to equal a real world measurement, ie, 894 steps = 1 inch.

Just remember, with a stepper based table, theres no position feedback like in a servo table.  You miss a step, or bind, and everything gets thrown off - but its a load cheaper and simpler.

[Franco B]

mine is accurate to with in a few 10,000ths of an inch and repeatability with in 6 to 7 10,000ths

Fair play   Have you got any pictures of yours?

I would be tempted to build one myself if I didn't have these at my disposal. 

[facesmiths]

1. bom (ballpark) for mine was: $400 for 150oz in motors x 4 plus a control board that will allow me to go up to 7 amps per phase. this is good for my mid size project (the one I have will cut single player CPO's as it stands and will move my rotozip up and down and even move a decent size router but I assist mine with a pulley to keep from wearing out the lead nut as I used a thick piece of polyethylene (part cut out of the top of a 55 gal plastic barrel) and to be honest my table could be bigger with these motors. as for the mill it's self I dumpster dived all my parts from computer racks (the "C" channel rails that the plates you don't see inside the rack mount cabinet) that were being thrown away by a local pipeline company. and MDF for a lot of the body from a local company that distributes tile and so they use it to make signs with bunches of tiles on them as displays. the only things I spent money on were scrap block and plate aluminum for the base insides as well as the ends of the table axes, and my various nuts and bolts and 1/4 inch threaded rod for the lead screws. so I would say I have spent on parts and motors and a control board (all in one) about 500 bucks. I mean even the wire I am using to connect the board to the motors and cable to run the board from the parallel port and the finally the old computer (pentium 75 mhz) was dumpster dived and the euro screw terminals (I have seen some one use them for a keyboard hack here) was a gimme from OKE I belive is the name I just wrote them for some other samples, noticed they made them, added the terminals, and they sent all of it free. I image buying everything from radio shack and various suppliers would only run up another 150 to 200 though cause the old computer you can get from a thrift store for like 3 to 5 bucks and it is really all you need.

2. if I built something for some one else I would probably ask about 2 grand for some thing like mine just a better design to utilize the knowledge I gained from building mine and would include something to address the lack of feed back issue Ed_McCarron mentioned and include some optical sensors to account for this. I have designed and tested a concept that uses an old mouse and pinch wheel to track movement down to 1/4 of 1,000th of an inch which is my movement per step. a larger change over would up this ratio if need be, and to be able to buy extra boards and such to assure I could replace anything that did not make to the 6 month date as a sort of warranty back up. I can get them replaced but I would not want to have to wait to be able to ship a replacement. also I would have to include all the cables and a cheap computer to assure everything worked out of the box if that was what some one was looking for. cutting area 1 foot by 2 foot by 6 inches and a cutting depth of 2 inches with 1/4 inch extra long end mills. materials workable are really only limited to your imagination and the bits you use and the time you allow the end mills to do their job but I have done hardened steel work on it with tungsten carbide bits oh and I could not send one out with out a 4th axis. you would not belive how much more you can do with a mill with one of these on it. at the very least you can do lathe work on the mill with out having to have the extra machine sitting taking up space, though it is much slower and really more usefull for doing various cuts and gear making work  not huge but much more than a PCB maker would need.

last thing I need to say about the feedback issue addressed by Ed_McCarron

stepper motors or any other sort of motor gives a quick jolt of power it creates and this is called feed back. you probably already know this but what you may not know is there is a company that makes a chip that instead of being damaged by this and needed to be protected from it, this chip actually needs it to one of the inputs for that axis as it used this to know the motor moved! I so want a board utilizing these and will build one some day.

as for pics I will post some once I have it reassembled unless I stumble across my old pics from my last place and maybe some of the work I did on it

[facesmiths]

How does the software account for differences in motors?

So who's going to use these to build cabinets.   

the software I have allows for differnces on all 8 axes that can be hooked up to it so differning size motors that have to have differnt size threaded rod can be calibrated accordingly same with rotary axes.

mine is basicly this formula

200 steps per revolution of the shaft times 1/20 or 1/4 inch rod 20 thread (per inch) so 200 x 20 =4000 steps per inch
they make motors that do other amounts of steps per revolution but the popular ones seem to be 200 and 180 (180 works well if you like to work in degrees for a rotary axis) I dont but instead work in radians and this works out perfectly for the 200 step units since there are exactly 400 radians to a rotation and that is half. I will eventually be making some odd ball stuff that requires division of 3 instead of 2 or 4 and will have to have a 180 step motor but for now I am set just fine. with a 4 axis system and some decent sized cut off discs you can even make carbide tooling for your mill. I know because I have done it. you do of course have to do a bit of testing and account for breakdown of the discs but it worked really well and I don't think the bits I have bought were much better really though I don't do productions work  so I don't know if the commercial ones would have a longer life. probably.

[facesmiths]

oh yeah forgot to mention

@Franco B
I hate you! 

[facesmiths]

@Franco B and punxrus.

PM sent to each of you with your requests

[Ed_McCarron]

I was looking at this a while back, but my biggest problem would be finding the linear bearings and rails at a reasonable price.  I tend to overengineer.

[punxrus]

I was looking at this a while back, but my biggest problem would be finding the linear bearings and rails at a reasonable price.  I tend to overengineer.

A little digging via the all knowing intertron or even locally, you can find these pretty cheap...just keep lookin'

[facesmiths]

if cheap is what you need tear apart the wheels of a couple of roller blades. those things (the bearings in them) are really beefy considering I guess they have to prepare them for say the average american male even in those areas of america where excersise is pretty much considered to be a joke. they all have quarter inch or 5/16ths inch inside holes

[facesmiths]

bumpity bump so any progress or pics on this?? love to see the progress on these things.

[facesmiths]

about price by the way it really would depend on the size of the mill you want and what accessories you wanted. that pice was a turn key system that would last just about forever with the ability to change out and make your own parts if need be as well as it can replicate it's self so you would never need to buy anouther unit. the materials it was made from would greatly effect the price too. there is a guy that makes plans you can follow using MDF and drill rod that costs around $75 total for the machine it self. My biggest problem is the electronics of it which I have been working on my own version that would be much cheaper to make and all. I just have to get around to building my DVD burning laser diode PCB unit. that will be interesting. the second thing would be motors as they can be expensive but I have a design that actually would be easier to design the electronics for and would just be so steam punk that it would not be funny

If I ever succeed at doing what I want I will have a unit that would be as easy to use and as cheap as a laser printer of the same area for cutting. 8 & a half inch by 11 inches for like $200 but you would still have to supply the computer.

[punxrus]

All of my projects have been put on hold as I am out due to an injury. I'll be back at it in a few weeks hopefully and can get some pics when the project officially gets started.

[SavannahLion]

if you have not bought your stuff let me know as I have two places you can go to get them and one offers insanely huge motors for very little investment. let me know and I will pm you the info to keep from flooding ads on the board.

You have my interest. I've looked into a CNC table before, but the initial investment was always a deterrent.

I'm out in CA and I'm facing grim times so I'll have to sock this away as a future project. I would still like the information anyways.

[DaOld Man]

Im interested in this project too.
however, it is on the growing list of things to do, so it may be sometime next year before I can honestly start.
I appreciate all your posts and info, this will come in handy then.

[danny_galaga]

I was looking at this a while back, but my biggest problem would be finding the linear bearings and rails at a reasonable price.  I tend to overengineer.

dunno much about anything else in this project, but i can tell you bearings are damn cheap, and there are a huge range available. remember too that amazingly, there are hardly any factories in the world that actually made bearings (for instance, if it werent for the fact sweden was neutral, england had no supply of bearings in WWII!). so bearings are very standardised. and made for a wide range of purposes. i bought some bearings for a model car from a bearing shop. if i bought 'genuine' spares they would have cost and arm and a leg. but they are exactly the same (as in from the same factory) as bearings used in shimano fishing reels.

take the measurements you need and go to a bearing shop. in australia CBC bearings are great. dunno if they are a world wide company or just aussie. then you just need to tell them if they need seals, rubber or metal etc. the bearings i bought had to be ordered in but still cost maybe a quarter of 'genuine' ones...

[SavannahLion]

I was looking at this a while back, but my biggest problem would be finding the linear bearings and rails at a reasonable price.  I tend to overengineer.

dunno much about anything else in this project, but i can tell you bearings are damn cheap, and there are a huge range available. remember too that amazingly, there are hardly any factories in the world that actually made bearings (for instance, if it werent for the fact sweden was neutral, england had no supply of bearings in WWII!). so bearings are very standardised. and made for a wide range of purposes. i bought some bearings for a model car from a bearing shop. if i bought 'genuine' spares they would have cost and arm and a leg. but they are exactly the same (as in from the same factory) as bearings used in shimano fishing reels.

take the measurements you need and go to a bearing shop. in australia CBC bearings are great. dunno if they are a world wide company or just aussie. then you just need to tell them if they need seals, rubber or metal etc. the bearings i bought had to be ordered in but still cost maybe a quarter of 'genuine' ones...

I was not aware of that. A quick google search confirms it. A U.S. site only lists 27 companies. I'm sure that's not all of the world wide manufacturers, but for something that's such an integral part of our society, I figured there would be more than 27. Of course... this site lists 75 Microprocessor manufacturers, claiming to be almost all of them. So I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise.

[mameotron]

If you want to go a little bigger, check this out:

www.mechmate.com

You can throw a full sheet of plywood on this.  Mass produce cabinets!  But you're looking at a $5,000 investment here.

Still, the forum there is phenominal.  Lots of user builds documented, and the designer is compltely willing to give away plans, complete with dimensioned drawings.  Worth looking at even if you don't want to build one that size.

[punxrus]

If you want to go a little bigger, check this out:

www.mechmate.com

You can throw a full sheet of plywood on this.  Mass produce cabinets!  But you're looking at a $5,000 investment here.

Still, the forum there is phenominal.  Lots of user builds documented, and the designer is compltely willing to give away plans, complete with dimensioned drawings.  Worth looking at even if you don't want to build one that size.

Thanks for the link! Pretty nice forum from what I've read.

[DaOld Man]

If you want to go a little bigger, check this out:

www.mechmate.com

You can throw a full sheet of plywood on this.  Mass produce cabinets!  But you're looking at a $5,000 investment here.

Still, the forum there is phenominal.  Lots of user builds documented, and the designer is compltely willing to give away plans, complete with dimensioned drawings.  Worth looking at even if you don't want to build one that size.

Yes, thanks for this link.
Very interesting..

[facesmiths]

well I guess since others have posted links it should be ok if I do as well right? I am in no way associated with these companies or people so please don't think I am getting anything for this except the gratification of informing people of the things available so that we can get more garage CNC small businesses in the word today as that is really what we need.


places to get automation parts and info

www.stepperworld.com
not the best suppier but better than most and he is the most helpful that I have dealt with.

www.kelinginc.com
excellent array of parts to allow you to make just about anything. and not bad prices at all

www.crankorgan.com
not talkative unless you bought some plans from him but his site is very informative non the less.

www.cnczone.com
excellent source for info as there are tons of people populating the forums.
WARNING: don't even try to talk about someone else's software as they are there for their own software. To their credit though they don't make machines so they have no problem with people talking about machines to their hearts content, and believe me there are a ton talking and giving out even free designs.

And if you actually get a machine together you can go on over the their sister site that has people looking for people to do work for them with said machinery. and maybe even make some money.

one final note. be sure to look through the links on each site as you will find a wealth of people and companies selling or talking about stuff that is essential for this hobby.

places to get supplies or parts that are not specificly for automation but are nice to have



www.sdp-si.com
gears cogs bearings you name it, they sell it when it comes to basics needed for machinery. (I bet they have the stuff for a lot of things here too like the yoke for starwars and their needed gears springs and stops) don't know if they are cheaper than the guy working on an actual yoke, and if buying his parts at a higher price will help him finish that project I recommend to buy from him instead. but for those other parts you need the link is here.

[danny_galaga]

I was not aware of that. A quick google search confirms it. A U.S. site only lists 27 companies. I'm sure that's not all of the world wide manufacturers, but for something that's such an integral part of our society, I figured there would be more than 27. Of course... this site lists 75 Microprocessor manufacturers, claiming to be almost all of them. So I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise.

and out of those, nachi, ntn, skf and timken make about 90% of the worlds bearings. i believe skf is the swedish company that supplied england in wwii (although being neutral they probably sold to germany too  )