Beyond the killscreen

[Ummon]

For Billy, however, what remains is the immutable fact of his Perfect Game. “No one can take that away,” he points out during a surprise call, long after the film has gone from theaters. “It’s something that cannot be undone.” Except, of course, in the unlikely event that the kill screen were breached. I ask Billy what he would do if a challenger somehow surpassed level 256. It is a potentially uncomfortable question, but I get a surprising response. “The truth is, I’d be happy about it,” Billy says, after a considerable silence. “Even if I had to give up my own score. I wouldn’t even mind paying the bounty. Because that would only mean that there’s something new to experience about Pac-Man. And who wouldn’t pay $100,000 for that?”

Okay, since the killscreen has been de-mystified in these games, what now? I can think of some rather obvious answers but it seems no one else, particularly none of the major players, is. What's the deal here?

[ahofle]

Seems like a good use for MAME save states.   

[Xiaou2]

 Its probably good that these games did have Kill screens... because some of these
guys are Insane enough to play until they "physically" die (in real life)
just to be the best.
 
 Who knows... maybe these kill screens were actually intentional    heh
(even though they would deny it)

[CrazyKongFan]

Nah, I doubt it...just sloppy programming

[DaOld Man]

Not meaning to get off topic here, but is the movie King of Kong for real?
I saw it in blockbusters and it says on the cover that it is a very funny comedy.
I had already watched it, but I didnt think it was a comedy, even though it had some funny spots in it. It definitely wasnt a "Christmas Vacation" or anything.

[shardian]

hehe, even up till the end of the movie, my wife kept asking "Is this for real?" 

[Ginsu Victim]

Not meaning to get off topic here, but is the movie King of Kong for real?
I saw it in blockbusters and it says on the cover that it is a very funny comedy.
I had already watched it, but I didnt think it was a comedy, even though it had some funny spots in it. It definitely wasnt a "Christmas Vacation" or anything.

It's VERY heavily edited for dramatic effect, and many facts are left out. It's a very funny movie as is, but don't take it at face value.

[RayB]

What's the purpose of this thread? Is it about going beyond level 256 or not?

If so, it can be done... Here is what we can do:

1. Use of cheats for infinite lives of course.

2. Use the "artwork" feature to overlay a copy of the maze on top of the game. I don't know if this requires a custom build of mame or tweaking the rom set ini, but the idea is you get a maze on top of the garbage graphics. (If you can't do that, maybe just a clear overlay stuck on your monitor! heh)

3. A second person to track and help remember where dots are remaining.

So then at least we'll see "wha happen?" after that level. (My guess is it just goes on to yet another garbage screen).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D421N6xlisg[/youtube]

[DaOld Man]

Sorry man, I seriously did not intend to hijack this thread..
 

[Ummon]

Not meaning to get off topic here, but is the movie King of Kong for real?
I saw it in blockbusters and it says on the cover that it is a very funny comedy.
I had already watched it, but I didnt think it was a comedy, even though it had some funny spots in it. It definitely wasnt a "Christmas Vacation" or anything.

Perhaps just a mistake, as they do have a documentary section, right? Tell 'em.

What's the purpose of this thread? Is it about going beyond level 256 or not?

If so, it can be done... Here is what we can do:

1. Use of cheats for infinite lives of course.

2. Use the "artwork" feature to overlay a copy of the maze on top of the game. I don't know if this requires a custom build of mame or tweaking the rom set ini, but the idea is you get a maze on top of the garbage graphics. (If you can't do that, maybe just a clear overlay stuck on your monitor! heh)

3. A second person to track and help remember where dots are remaining.

So then at least we'll see "wha happen?" after that level. (My guess is it just goes on to yet another garbage screen).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D421N6xlisg[/youtube]

I don't get that video, but it was funny. Anyways, essentially, I'm saying since the code can be fixed, why not burn some new roms for the masters?

[RayB]

I don't get that video, but it was funny. Anyways, essentially, I'm saying since the code can be fixed, why not burn some new roms for the masters?

You're absolutely right! It would be easy (for any programmer who's dabbled in changing ROM code) to fix the error. Same goes for the Donkey Kong kill screen.

[TOK]

I don't get that video, but it was funny. Anyways, essentially, I'm saying since the code can be fixed, why not burn some new roms for the masters?

You're absolutely right! It would be easy (for any programmer who's dabbled in changing ROM code) to fix the error. Same goes for the Donkey Kong kill screen.

What makes DK cool to me is that it has a finite end, and the trick is maximizing your points before reaching that point. A world record can be set in what, 2 1/2 hours?  I think that reasonable max playtime and finite end is what makes it interesting. If guys were playing it 44 hours to rack into the 10's of millions, it would actually lose much of its mystique.

[Ginsu Victim]

What's the purpose of this thread? Is it about going beyond level 256 or not?

If so, it can be done... Here is what we can do:

1. Use of cheats for infinite lives of course.

2. Use the "artwork" feature to overlay a copy of the maze on top of the game. I don't know if this requires a custom build of mame or tweaking the rom set ini, but the idea is you get a maze on top of the garbage graphics. (If you can't do that, maybe just a clear overlay stuck on your monitor! heh)

3. A second person to track and help remember where dots are remaining.

So then at least we'll see "wha happen?" after that level. (My guess is it just goes on to yet another garbage screen).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D421N6xlisg[/youtube]

Fred Willard FTW!

(Christopher Guest movies ---smurfing--- rule!)

[RayB]

If any of you have the time and inclination to see what happens after clearing the garbage screen in PacMan, I have made an artwork file that permanently shows the maze as an overlay.
(made it for PuckMan so you don't over-write PacMan art files)

Just place in /artwork/ and run puckman with artwork enabled.

[Jack Burton]

I would think that if you were good enough to get to the garbled screens in pac man then you would pretty much be able to know where the maze was without having to look.  The same goes for remembering what dots you have eaten.

I suppose the real trick is knowing the ghost AI well enough to know where they are at all times.



Essentially, you have to be good enough to beat a level of pac man blind.  Probably not too hard.

[RayB]

Yeah OK, I guess the reason it's never been done is because all the experts came to a covert agreement to never pass that screen. 

[ahofle]

I think the answer is that it's most likely not possible.  It was just a hypothetical question.  What happens on kill screens is essentially the same thing that happens in windows when a program executes an 'illegal instruction'.  The one byte variable in this case that holds the level number overflows at 255 and random crap is executed as computer instructions (hence the junk on the screen).  I would be highly surprised if someone hasn't already messed around with a savestate in MAME of the last level to try to complete it (unsuccessfully).

[Ummon]

I don't get that video, but it was funny. Anyways, essentially, I'm saying since the code can be fixed, why not burn some new roms for the masters?

You're absolutely right! It would be easy (for any programmer who's dabbled in changing ROM code) to fix the error. Same goes for the Donkey Kong kill screen.

What makes DK cool to me is that it has a finite end, and the trick is maximizing your points before reaching that point. A world record can be set in what, 2 1/2 hours?  I think that reasonable max playtime and finite end is what makes it interesting. If guys were playing it 44 hours to rack into the 10's of millions, it would actually lose much of its mystique.

Um, yeah, and probably. And probably a lot of people would consider it un-authentic or whatever if done. So? Many other games go indefinitely. Let's see what can happen. Note, I've mainly been referring to the DK kill screen in burning new roms and all, but definitely for the Pac games, too, why not? And on that note, I thought it was spelled out in Hodges article that since there are no dots on half the board, it can't be passed. You can't just cruise the board, you have to munch dots, and they ain't there.


Way off topic, any of you remember the Federated dude? WE'RE SLASHING PRICES <WEEAAAAARRRRRRRRRR....CCHHHHHHHHH....HAHAHAHAHHA>

[Cubesmith]

Way off topic, any of you remember the Federated dude? WE'RE SLASHING PRICES <WEEAAAAARRRRRRRRRR....CCHHHHHHHHH....HAHAHAHAHHA>
[/quote]

Who could forget Fred E. Rated. 

[CrazyKongFan]

The Pac-man killscreen can't be cleared without cheating (modifying the code on an arcade or rack-advancing, or on MAME, using infinite lives or rack-advancing). There's only 9 dots on the garbage half of the split screen that regenerate when you die. That's why they have the setting for Twin Galaxies at 5 men+1 at 10K, so there's a perfect game. You can't get any higher than the top score there (which Billy Mitchell was the first to do, but others have done it since). Even with 6 men, there's just not enough dots on that half of the screen to register enough to clear the level. Of course, to get that perfect score, you have to eat every fruit/key, and all 4 ghosts on all 4 pellets on every screen with blue time, and then run 234 "9th key" boards without losing a life or missing a key, then get the 9 dots on the split screen for all 6 lives on board 255. If you can figure out a way to clear it legitimately, I believe Billy Mitchell has a bounty waiting for you (assuming he hasn't rescinded it...I'm pretty sure he had one, but I can't find it at the moment)

[Ummon]

If you can figure out a way to clear it legitimately, I believe Billy Mitchell has a bounty waiting for you (assuming he hasn't rescinded it...I'm pretty sure he had one, but I can't find it at the moment)

That's what I said, it can't be cleared. But I don't consider making new roms with corrected code a hack.

[Ummon]

Also wanted to mention, in one of the articles on DK code that the D2K guy wrote up, it says that though it shows 800 points at times for a blue barrel, it only awards 500. At least in Mame, it awards 800.

[CrazyKongFan]

Also wanted to mention, in one of the articles on DK code that the D2K guy wrote up, it says that though it shows 800 points at times for a blue barrel, it only awards 500. At least in Mame, it awards 800.

No, that's for a 3+ barrel (or a 2 barrel + fireball) jump. It shows the 800 graphic, but only awards 500. It does give you 800 when it shows the 800 graphic when you smash a blue barrel, fireball or pie with the hammer.  It behaves the same on both MAME and arcade in both instances cases (jumping barrels or hitting with a hammer)
He doesn't specifically state that it's for jumping the barrels though (maybe I'll mention it to him so he can make it more clear )

[Ummon]

Yeah, cos those are two different situations.