Hello....Touchscreen Question

[Oldtimehockey]

Hi, 1st time poster, long time reader. I've finally caved and decided to build my Jukebox. I've decided to go the route of the monitor built into the wall route.
My question is as follows.
Which monitor would you guys recommend? From doing some reading, I see that a 15" is best as it mounts between the studs.
Any other recommendations? Is ELO the best? or 3M? Or?   
Also, if I buy a unit with a bezel on it, how difficult is it to remove?
Thanks
Oldtimehockey

[mccoy178]

The bezels that I have messed with came off with just a couple screws.  I have experience with ELO and I found that getting their drivers and installing was incredibly easy.

[Oldtimehockey]

Thanks mccoy...

Also, is a 'Surface Acoustic Wave' type my best bet?

Thanks

[Oldtimehockey]

Found these at a relatively cheap price....Useful or useless?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280251842121&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=018

[DaOld Man]

Sorry for jumping in here late, guess I missed this post first time around.
So does anyone know anything about the monitors in that ebay link?
The guy says he has 17 but no one bid on that ebay auction. (Ended now)

[Oldtimehockey]

I decided to stay away. He said he'd give it to me for $90 shipped. But he only has one review and it just happens to be  a review on the same item. He told me to hurry up and take one because someone wanted the whole lot. I didn't and the things stayed on for the entire term.

Something about the guy I just didnt trust.

[padstack]

As far as what is best, it depends on what you want.  Capacitive will only register a "touch" if you touch it with skin (or I think it can take a glove hand up to a few mils thick) due to it requiring the electrical properties of your skin to register the touch.

Saw is one of the more durable, but really not more durable for normal use than any other.  It DOES typically allow for the use of any stylus (not just skin).  It works off of the sound of the glass being "touched" and requires the use of a couple transducers on each axis of the monitor glass.  IMO, they give one of the more professional looks.

ELO has one called APR patented right now that is really the cadillac of the industry (but wouldn't be used by a DIY'er unless (s)he has money to burn (although if you were buying it new, the price difference is negligible from a SAW).  It is SUPER sensitive, can use anything for a stylus, it cannot be scratched (I've used a knife before to test) and can be mounted in a variety of ways.  These aren't as prevalent in an open frame style though and that's probably the best for these types of applications.

The last is the most common type and that's resistive touch.  Typically 4 or 5 wire (although there are some 8 wire models out there).  They rely on something that will resist the flow of electricity to register the touch.  Basically, your finger.  They look to be much less durable than the SAWs, but really aren't unless you're in an industrial environment and are stabbing them with pens/knives/etc.

Durability typically goes from APR->SAW->resistive->capacitive, although all of these are rated in millions of touches.  That's a lot of jukeboxin'!

I didn't mention any dual touch technologies b/c they just aren't affordable in this range unless you get lucky on e-bay and they really aren't valie for a jukebox application.

Hopefully this is useful to someone!


*edit* - forgot to mention that brand means virtually nothing as very few of these guys do much that is proprietary (that we would run into, that is).  Most of the glass and touch controllers are commodity.

My reccomendations - open frame and cheap.  Can be 3M, Planar, Elo, etc.

[Barry Barcrest]

What about the projected touch panels? I don't know if that is the correct term but it was what i have seen them listed as. Basically they can be mounted behind class or perspex and still pick up a touch. They are the ones they use in jukeboxes here in the UK.

[padstack]

I have no clue on those.  I would assume they work similarly to the projected keyboards and such (on IR maybe?).  I would have to think they'd be cost prohibitive.

[Oldtimehockey]

I ended up purchasing this model...Not sure if it's any good. Perhaps you guys can let me know

Specifications

Model 1540L
Case/bezel color Black minibezel
Display Size: 15.0" diagonal
Type: Active matrix TFT LCD
Aspect ratio: 4 x 3
Useful screen area Horizontal: 12.0" (304 mm)
Vertical: 9.0" (228 mm)
Monitor dimensions Width: 13.23" (336 mm)
Height: 10.39" (264 mm)
Depth: 1.61" (41 mm)
Optimal (native) resolution 1024 x 768
Other supported resolutions 1024 x 768 at 60, 65 (Sun), 70 or 75 Hz
832 x 624 at 75 Hz (Mac)
800 x 600 at 56, 60, 72 or 75 Hz
720 x 400 at 70 Hz
720 x 350 at 70 Hz
640 x 480 at 60, 66 (Mac), 72 or 75 Hz
512 x 256 at 60 Hz (CGA)
512 x 247 at 60 Hz (CGA)
Colors 16.2 million with dithering
Brightness LCD panel: 250 cd/m2 (typical)
with AccuTouch: 200 cd/m2 (typical)
with Acoustic Pulse Recognition: 230 cd/m2 (typical)
with CarrollTouch: 230 cd/m2 (typical)
with IntelliTouch: 230 cd/m2 (typical)
with SecureTouch: 230 cd/m2 (typical)
with surface capacitive: 213 cd/m2 (typical)
Response time 14.5 msec (typical)
Viewing angle
(typical, from center) Horizontal (left/right): ±70° or 140° total
Vertical (up/down): 60/55° or 115° total
Contrast ratio 500:1 typical
Input video format RGB analog only
Input sync format Separate horizontal and vertical sync, composite sync and sync-on-green
Input video signal connector Mini D-Sub 15-Pin VGA type
Input frequency Horizontal: 31.5-60.2 kHz
Vertical: 56.3-75 Hz
Power supply Type: External brick
Input (line) voltage: 100-240 VAC, 50/60 Hz
Monitor input voltage, current: +12VDC ±5% at 2.5 A max.
Power dissipation 30 W max.
Temperature Operating: 0°C to 40°C
Storage: -20°C to 60°C
Humidity Operating: 20%-80%
Storage: 10%-90%
noncondensing
Warranty Monitor: 3 years
Backlight lamp life: typical 30,000 hours to half brightness
MTBF: 50,000 hours demonstrated
Agency approvals North America/Worldwide: UL, cUL (Recognized), FCC, CE, TÜV-GS, VCCI, IC, C-Tick, Argentina S, Semko
Asia: UL, cUL (Recognized), FCC, CE, TÜV-GS, VCCI, IC, C-Tick, Argentina S, Semko, BSMI, MIC, China RoHS
On-screen display (OSD) Digital OSD; remote OSD with 1.8m cable available
User's controls Remote OSD: Auto/Sel, up, down, menu
OSD buttons: menu, up, down, select, power
OSD: contrast, brightness, H/V position, RGB (color temp), clock, phase, recall, language (English, German, Spanish, Japanese, French)
OSD disable/enable: power, OSD menu

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130244224404&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=003

[padstack]

do you know what type of touch tech is in it?  Looks good from the description and they guaranteed it.  IMO,  it was a little steep, but with the other guys selling out, I'm not sure what other options you had.

[Oldtimehockey]

You know, after rereading it, I'm not 100% sure. I truly can't believe I didn't look for it earlier.
I figured the price was a bit much but with similar models selling for more and this being brand new I figured I'd jump on it at $200. That being said, the wife wasn't impressed considering I told her guys on here were getting them for under 100 bones. Ah well..Should get it any day now. Is there a way for me to tell what type of touch tech it is?

[Oldtimehockey]

Just spoke to ELO tech support. They say it's intellitouch...Not sure what that means. Anyone?

[Oldtimehockey]

Here's a write up from the ELO site on intelliTouch

IntelliTouch surface wave is the optical standard of touch. Its pure glass construction provides superior optical performance and makes it the most scratch-resistant technology available. It's nearly impossible to physically "wear out" this touchscreen. IntelliTouch is widely used in kiosk, gaming, and office automation applications and is available for both flat panel and CRT solutions.

Benefits
Surface wave (also known as surface acoustic wave, or SAW) technology
Pure-glass touchscreens for superior image clarity, resolution, and light transmission
Durable, scratch-resistant glass surface—continues to work if scratched
Stable "drift-free" operation—for touch response that's always accurate
Finger, gloved hand, and soft stylus activation
Fast touch response
Sensitive touch response—recognizes location and amount of pressure applied

[Barry Barcrest]

I have no clue on those.  I would assume they work similarly to the projected keyboards and such (on IR maybe?).  I would have to think they'd be cost prohibitive.

I think you might be right, getting a new juke with one of these screens is over £1,000

EDIT: I googled it, it's near field technology..

Info here
http://www.techedu.com/3M_91-4922-191-02.asp

[padstack]

SAW is good for our apps.  Especially if it's gonna be in a bar environment where the occasional person might get hammered and something could potentially fall into the monitor.  The glass is tougher than it looks (the 1545 models are EXTREMELY durable - despite what the USPS wants to prove...).  It's slightly more durable than the resitive screens, way more durable than capacitive, and isn't easily scratched.  Even at $200 those are a decent deal.

Brand new they go for AT LEAST $430 (and that's if you have some connections @ Elo).  TO get much cheaper for a new one, you would have to settle for resistive (more competition) and hack up a typical touch monitor (like on a POS system).  In the next year though, the SAWs shoudl come down b/c the patent ran out for Elo last year.  I know a couple people are bringing them out (Planar and 3M).  For us though, it won't effect the 2nd hand market for a couple more years.

The short of it - those of us who scored ones for under $100, we darn near stole them b/c a kiosk company liquidated thousands of them and flooded the market.  You still got a good deal.

[Oldtimehockey]

Got it in today. Works great. Have some fiddling to do..but I'm very happy with it.
I'm happy with the price as well. It was new out of box and it looks it. Thanks for everyone's advice!!!