Lightgun News- Some News from HAPP

[wbassett]

No, it won't track like Terminator.  Terminator didn't use a light gun.  It used a joystick to play the game, it was just disguised as a light gun.  The terminator gun was nothing more than a large joystick with a plastic housing. 

 I think most of use here are quite aware of how The original
Terminator gun worked...

I really wouldn't care if it was a joystick, keyboard, mouse,
whatever, as long as it looked like a gun acted liked a gun;
and worked with more than just 2 games.

I think what we would like to see however is a solution
that would work with all games regardless!

As I stated before, Light Guns can only track like that if you have a very bright (ie white) screen.  If you put up a white background, a light gun can track the movement of the gun, however, when you hit a black area on the screen, it will not be able to track.

 You know I heard a lot of people complain about the flashing
of the ACT Lab Guns.. I really don't mind it at all If I can find
a solution that will track and support more than 2 games..


 A Well I had hoped...

guess I'll just hold off for something else

I think I know what you are asking...  can you play any shooting game with it?

From what I understand talking to Les from Happ and from what Dave has explained is this will be exactly like what you experience at a real arcade playing games with real arcade guns because it is essentially a replacement board for existing arcade machines but will also work for our (MAME) applications.  Will it work with everything?  No, but nothing works perfectly with everything across the board.

For Games like Terminator, Jurasic Park and other joystick based 'guns', this probably won't be ideal.  You can however pick up those 'guns' on ebay for dirt cheap.  I snagged a pair of 'guns' for $29 including shipping. 

I am still waiting for this board or the Sonic board to become available for my light gun games.  Until then I am limping by with a first gen Topgun.

[TeutonicDarkness]

 Yeah I have considered getting some of those joystick based
guns off ebay...

However I just don't see why a solution could not be achieved?

The cursor tracks on most of these games with a mouse,
keyboard/ keyboard encoded joystick, even a gamepad.

Also there are the few people that got the LCD top guns to
work... that can confirm that these games will work
because it is seen as a mouse.


I just dont get it?
They work with a mouse, keyboard, joystick...

Why cant someone Just have one of the Above devices
encased in a gun shell ( With smooth cursor tracking ability)
and sell it?

[davidrfoley]

because there is not enough demand for someone to invest the amount of money to build such a product.  The MAME market finds that anything over $100 is "too expensive" and the cost for Terminator style guns in low quantity is several hundred dollars (I designed this type of gun system for the Aliens arcade game)

We are developing the sonic gun system that will work with any screen, and will work as a mouse or joystick.  Once we get into production we are hoping to have a consumer version that will be cost effective for the BYOAC community to endorse and use.

[TeutonicDarkness]

because there is not enough demand for someone to invest the amount of money to build such a product.  The MAME market finds that anything over $100 is "too expensive" and the cost for Terminator style guns in low quantity is several hundred dollars (I designed this type of gun system for the Aliens arcade game)

We are developing the sonic gun system that will work with any screen, and will work as a mouse or joystick.  Once we get into production we are hoping to have a consumer version that will be cost effective for the BYOAC community to endorse and use.

 Ok I do realize that There are several different gun Type Games.
Some are actual Lightguns some are joystick mount guns,
etc.

I also realize there is not something that will work on everything..
( Some games are not even fully emulated )

If the Sonic gun will work with Terminator 2 style games,
and at least most of the others... And give me a smooth
working cursors that track as I point across the screen.

I would probably buy about 4 of them regardless of price...

[davidrfoley]

Sonic Gun will work with any game that works with a lightgun, mouse or joystick.  The SGS system can feed the PC with either Joystick or Mouse event info, which you can choose in setup.

[TeutonicDarkness]

Sonic Gun will work with any game that works with a lightgun, mouse or joystick.  The SGS system can feed the PC with either Joystick or Mouse event info, which you can choose in setup.

 That's good news.

Maybe if its ready by next year income tax time I'll buy a few of these!

[Siris]

David,

What is the latest news on the OptiGun?

[mayhem]

got to admit here guys. the best option and better than a top gun is the Wii controller. Its work 100% much better than a LCD top gun. I have 2 x Top gun ver 1's and 2 x top Gun version 2's. Now Both the first versions are no longer working correctly and one of the version 2's is on its way out all ready. I blame the kids but lets be honest here kids do love to play and thats what we were at one time.

The Wii remote with blue tooth connection and mouse driver work perfectly and don't need two massive LED light sticks on the screen at all only one single small wireless version does the job.. The only problem with the Wii controllers is the loading of the driver and its a pain in the ass in a cab having to manually load the driver for each game but if this was automated via a macro (which i have been working on for my c-macc's 2). Now yes its not perfect but the gains are much better than most options out there atm.

pro of the wii are

1) They do not brake easy
2) Cheap
3) IT WORKS and you dont need to be a genius to get them to work.
4) Wireless
5) i bet you can re house them
6) works on LCD / CRT / arcade mon

cons are

1) No kick back
2) Needs work on the driver and a macro setting up
3) Blue tooth only
4) does not look like a gun !!!!
5) HOTD 2 just isn't as fun than with a real light gun

[Franco B]

I still need to have a play with wii controllers with mame. The setup is putting me off but i'm going to give it a go.

As regards to the wii remote not looking like a gun, there are quite a few different remote 'housings' that make the controller look and feel more like a gun:











Just search ebay for 'Wii Guns'. I bought a pair of the bottom ones for about £6 delivered.

[AndyWarne]

There are two issues which mean that the Wii Controller is not an ideal solution as a gun, although seems adequate for many people.
The first is that it was never designed to be a calibrated device, as the Wii pointer just roughly moves in the direction of the controller, it does not follow the controller exactly.
This can be partly overcome by drivers which have some kind of calibration built in, so it can be calibrated in such as way that when the gun is lined up, the pointer follows it.

Then this leads onto the second problem. In the Wii setup, the pointer moves further than the relative movement of the controller. This means its easy to ensure the sensor in the remote can always see the IR LEDs, beacuse the movement of the controller is quite small, the LEDs are always in the field of view.

In a calibrated setup, the controller needs to move further, in fact it needs to be physically pointed at the corners of the screen, at worst case. This means it would lose sight of the LEDs, unless the controller is located a good distance away from the screen. Most people prefer the gun to be quite close to the screen, so this makes this problem even more difficult to overcome.

[Dartful Dodger]

As regards to the wii remote not looking like a gun, there are quite a few different remote 'housings' that make the controller look and feel more like a gun:

This one looks and feels perfect:




The problem with the wii-mote is you aim by putting the cursor on the target, I want a gun that's accurate enough so you can use the sites on the gun.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm curious how many, out of the "Wii is the ultimate solution" fans have played a gun game on the Wii and also played gun games in the arcade ... because I'm pretty sure that the Wiimote would suck for arcade usage.

It may seem like you are "aiming" the "gun" because moving the Wiimote moves the reticule, but reticule's location and where the "gun" is actually aimed don't appear to coincide all that much. Maybe a driver tweak could get around that, but I'm not convinced.

My observations after getting ---my bottom--- handed to me by my son in HotD on the Wii and then totally kicking his ass on the same game in the arcade because the act of "aiming" is completely different between the two.

 

[claypool]

has there been any  more developments in a solution for arcade light guns for the pc?

[DJ_Izumi]

It may seem like you are "aiming" the "gun" because moving the Wiimote moves the reticule, but reticule's location and where the "gun" is actually aimed don't appear to coincide all that much. Maybe a driver tweak could get around that, but I'm not convinced.

Some Wii games do support this.  Where you can calibrate the WiiMote so you can shoot down the barrel rather than use it like a mouse in your hand.  I know that Ghost Squad supported this however I've never played the Wii version and I'm quite unsure how wel it actually WORKS.

...And why didn't Ghost Squat or Virtua Cop 3 get ported to Xbox?  They ran on the Xbox based Chihiro just like HOTD3! :/

[severdhed]

It may seem like you are "aiming" the "gun" because moving the Wiimote moves the reticule, but reticule's location and where the "gun" is actually aimed don't appear to coincide all that much. Maybe a driver tweak could get around that, but I'm not convinced.

Some Wii games do support this.  Where you can calibrate the WiiMote so you can shoot down the barrel rather than use it like a mouse in your hand.  I know that Ghost Squad supported this however I've never played the Wii version and I'm quite unsure how wel it actually WORKS.

...And why didn't Ghost Squat or Virtua Cop 3 get ported to Xbox?  They ran on the Xbox based Chihiro just like HOTD3! :/

i have the wii version of ghost squad, as well as house fo the dead 2 and 3, both of which allow you to calibrate the gun.  once i did the calibration, i was able to play the game just fine with the crosshairs turned off, so aiming the gun works pretty well in those games.    the biggest problem with the wii, is that the sensor bar is too small to allow for accurate calibration on a big screen.  I use mine on a 102" screen, but i need to stand between 12 and 15 ft back in order to accurately calibrate the guns...which required modifying the wii sensor bar to increase it's functional distance.

the wiimote works well, and right now is my best option for light gun gaming...here's to hoping that the sonic guns will eventually be available and will work great with mame...until then, i'm off to play ghost squad

[JamIt]

the biggest problem with the wii, is that the sensor bar is too small to allow for accurate calibration on a big screen.  I use mine on a 102" screen, but i need to stand between 12 and 15 ft back in order to accurately calibrate the guns...which required modifying the wii sensor bar to increase it's functional distance.

Hey Severdhed, after calibration, do you still have to stand 12-15ft back to play?
Thanks,
JamIT

[severdhed]

yeah...you have to stand pretty much wherever you calibrated it from for it to be accurate.  the only reason i have to stand back that far is because my screen is so big....if your screen is smaller, you should not need to be back nearly as far

[DJ_Izumi]

I gotta be honest, as I've seen you mention a 102" screen multiple times.  I think you have no room to complain because you have a display that's 7+ feet and it's just VASTLY beyond the dimensions at which any home console hardware or software developer would ever considder.

It's like complaining that the garage on a house isn't built for a semi tractor.  They just arn't building things for that size and can't be expected to.

[severdhed]

i'm not complaining...i understand that i have an unusually large screen, and i don't expect nintendo to support that out of the box.  the problem is though, my friend has a 67" DLP Tv, and he has similar problems.  you cannot calibrate the wiimote accurately unless you move back pretty far, at which point the IR Tracking only works intermittently.   With big HDTVs being pretty popular right now, you would think that nintendo would have made the sensor bar longer in order to accommodate large TVs.  not everyone is playing video games on a 13" TV

[Shoegazer]

Actually, that's not unusually large at all.  I have a 90" screen and was considering putting in 100".  Several of my friends have screens that large or larger as well. 

Also, displays keep getting larger over time.  More houses today are being built with "media rooms" (traditionally the domain of only the most expensive mansions, now it's pretty commonplace).  This is especially the case given the proliferation of front projection units, where you can produce an image as large as you want provided you have the wallspace for it.  Console and hardware developers today MUST consider this as a factor - not doing so would be ignoring a growing chunk of the hardcore gaming community.

[RandyT]

Console and hardware developers today MUST consider this as a factor - not doing so would be ignoring a growing chunk of the hardcore gaming community.

Growing, but still very small in the larger scheme of things.  Console developers aways work within very tight confines of budget and available technology.  More often than not, they sell the early batch of consoles at a loss just so the console doesn't become obsolete in it's first year.  When you start talking peripheral developers, that cost becomes an even bigger concern, as more often than not, they need to pack a game and a gun together and sell both for a price that won't send the average consumer into sticker shock.

It would be nice if developers considered screens above 60", but due to the cost and space requirements of displays this size, they aren't owned by a large enough chunk of the population to be overly concerned about.  Of course, this is in the context of "gun games", which there aren't that many of in the first place.

RandyT

[ivwshane]

Is there any reason why someone couldn't use one of ultimarcs new u-hid g devices as a gun (basically you would treat it like a mouse)? Would calibration be an issue?

http://www.u-hid.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21&Itemid=24

[DJ_Izumi]

When you start talking peripheral developers, that cost becomes an even bigger concern, as more often than not, they need to pack a game and a gun together and sell both for a price that won't send the average consumer into sticker shock.

This also hurts the gun genre but is a necessary evil.  With the gun sold seperately, that works for ONE game, but when you release additional games for teh same gun you gotta dual release.  Some people have the gun already and some want the new game and the new gun.  Others might want a second gun to play with their friends.  These games are also DEPENDANT on the guns.  I have substantial PlayStation gun and game collection and I can honestly say, while these games support the dual shock you'd be returning the game if you were ever forced to play it that way.  Making someone play TimeCrisis or Point Blank with dual shock is just MEAN.

This is probably why Namco isn't taking any action with the Guncon 3 on the PS3 whereas everyone is porting their gungames to the Wii.

[1UP]

Is there any reason why someone couldn't use one of ultimarcs new u-hid g devices as a gun (basically you would treat it like a mouse)? Would calibration be an issue?

http://www.u-hid.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21&Itemid=24

The U-HID G is an accelerometer-based control, which is basically like using a PS3 Sixaxis controller.  There is a section of Heavenly Sword where you guide arrows around corners and such using the Sixaxis, but it takes a while to get used to it.  I doubt it could be calibrated accurately enough to always be pointing straight in front of a gun controller, it's just detecting relative motion, not absolute position.  A light gun knows exactly what pixel it's pointing at when you fire because it's looking at the video signal as the screen is being drawn.

[peterpepper]

any news about the OptiGun Lite from NanoTech ?

[Battlesmurf]

any news about the OptiGun Lite from NanoTech ?

Honestly- I'd love to know the answer to this too!All the information I can find is months and months old

[jtslade]

Anyone tried this Wii Gun, it has a numchuck built in. $14.99 and free AIrmail shipping is not bad, given that it INCLUDES the numchuck in the grip. As for dimensions it appears to be the close to the same size as a Beretta 92fs

The real thing:
Overall Length: 217 mm  ( 8.54 in )
Overall Height: 137 mm ( 5.39 in )



Made by Datel but rebranded and sold on Deal Extreme for less:

Dimensions: 8.66 in x 5.12 in x 1.61 in


http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26871



I like the idea of a three buttons on the gun. The bottom slap button can be used as the reload function.

[KissMyWookie]

Anyone tried this Wii Gun, it has a numchuck built in. $14.99 and free AIrmail shipping is not bad, given that it INCLUDES the numchuck in the grip. As for dimensions it appears to be the close to the same size as a Beretta 92fs

As discussed in other threads, the problem with using a Wiimote, is not the hardware but the currently available drivers. They don't allow for any calibration (which makes aiming innacurate) and you have to pair the Wiimote(s) with your computer everytime you boot up.

Until we get to use real arcade quality (robust) light guns with MAME, it is generally thought that GunCon2's are the best alternative.

Steve

PS: I bought two Namco GunCon2's for $12.50 including shipping (great deal - from an eBay seller that didn't sell at auction). They arrived yesterday and they too have a button on the bottom, where the magazine butt plate would be. They were made in 2000, so the Datel ones have borrowed the idea from them.
Now I just have to finish my Sync booster and combiner circuit and probably put it in a box with a small USB hub.

[peterpepper]

...so has somebody tested the nanotech opti-gun (or opti-gun lite) interface in the end? Has Dave of Nanotech disappeared?

[ant2]

hey, i'm using the aimtrak modules from ultimarc.
Mounted them in a guncon1 + guncon2 chassis.
The chassis cost me about £8 delivered. The aimtrak stuff about £70.

I've got a video of me using it at www.youtube.com/aletchet if anyone is interested. I think it's the best lightgun for the pc that i've used so far.

[gazz292]

That's alright if you are the only one to use the gun, but when you have a GF who is a good bit shorter than you, and neices that are half your height, then it's a royal pain in the A, having to re-calibrate for every user,

if there was a way for the aimtrack to use say 2 sensor bars or something that can remove the need to hold the gun in the same position all the time, then i'd buy it in a flash,

but i have a crt monitor, so would like to utilise the ability of it to work with an arcade gun properly, i.e. when it's held almost anywhere in relation to the screen, and at any angle or height.