Lightgun News- Some News from HAPP

[wbassett]

I spoke to Les at Happ.

I called in reference to R0R3 USB Optical Light Gun Interface Board (http://www.r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm).  I tried getting ahold of Jack J. McCauley at ROR3 about a half dozen times (not a good sign right there) and he is never at his number and I haven't received a call back from him.

I figured okay, since they list Happ and Happ guns specifically and have them listed as their 'customers', I figured I'd call Happ and see what they had to say about the ULGI.  I got ahold of Les at Happ very easily and quickly. 

In a nutshell... Les said yes he has heard of ROR3 and the ULGI but they haven't received any for testing.

Les was fantastic to talk to and did tell me that they are supposed to be getting an interface from a different company to check out that will allow their arcade guns to be connected directly to a PC.  He sent me some information and it looks pretty good from the overview pdf.

We talked about the current state of guns for MAME and really the biggest problem is we are such a small community that third party companies don't see any money making a PC lightgun just for us MAME users.  I can confirm this sentiment because yesterday I was on the phone with Namco and they flat out were not interested and even said their company does not take product suggestions from outside the company.  I tried explaining I wasn't making a suggestion, rather asking if they had any plans on making a PC compatable light gun and he pretty much said he couldn't discuss anything about whether the company was working on any projects.  In other words, no.

Les and I also talked about some of the issues with the few actual PC lightguns, mainly driver issues, accuracy problems, and durability (some guns just need to be dropped once and that's it, game over).  He agreed that there is a pretty big difference between consumer version guns as compared to commercial arcade guns and reliability and durability is a big factor and one reason why there is such a price difference. 

Basically, with a Happ gun you'll probably have it for life.  (I said that, not Les)  Sure they could break, anything can, but at a public arcade they also get ten fold the use and abuse any of us could possibly give them.

All in all, this is very good news.  The interface will accept multiple guns too (natch... we are after all talking about the real deal here and most real arcade shooters have two guns) as well as

Multiple Video Support
The design supports input from both standard PC VGA connectors and arcade
low/med resolution molex connectors.
The design supports all arcade video resolutions:
•Low Res 320x200 15.75KHz
•Med Res 512x384 24.5 KHz
•Std Res 640x480 31 KHz
•SVGA 800x600 35.1 KHz
•XGA 1024x768 37.5 KHz

Built in Audio Amplifier
The design has a 2 channel stereo amplifier built in.
•Mini Stereo Input Cable (PC Compatible)
•Molex 0.100” Speaker Out Connector
•Integrated heat sink, no fan required
•35W Stereo Amplifier
•Proven circuit design used in over 50,000 units in the coin-op market

Gun Support
The design supports existing off the shelf light guns.
•Molex 8 pin 0.100” Connectors
•Works with Happ & Betson / Imperial Guns &
Rifles
•No Modifications to guns or board required

Input Support
The design supports 24 digital inputs.
•3x Molex 10 pin 0.100” Connectors
•All inputs debounced
•Allows board to be used as only I/O adapter,
connecting coin inputs, start buttons, etc

Output Support
The design supports 8 outputs.
•2x Molex 6 pin 0.100” Connectors
•Supports 5v and 12v outputs
•Works with industry standard coin counters
•Supports guns with built in force feedback solenoids

System Interface
The design uses USB 2.0 HID.
•Standard USB Connector
•Interfaces to system as HID Standard 2 axis,
joysticks
•No Drivers Required
•Works with Linux, Windows and other OS

Power Support
The design uses standard power inputs.
•Logic powered by USB
•PC HDD style input for 12v & 5v power (used for
outputs and audio amplifier
•2 pin Molex 0.156” 24v connector for force feedback power

Firmware Upgradeability
The design uses Cypress PSoC field upgradeable processor.
•Firmware updatable via 5 pin Molex 0.100” input connector

This looks like very good news!

Now keep in mind this isn't something Happ made, it's a different company that is working with Happ.

As I mentioned earlier, we all are excited and enthusiastic about our hobby, but sometimes we forget how small we really are as a community.  The fact that a company is stepping up to work with Happ to try and deliver a product we can use with a PC and Happ's guns, and it's pretty much plug and play... well this is actually incredible news if you ask me.

Some may say the price is too much, but these really are the Ferarris and Holy Grail of light guns that everyone wants.  Only draw back... sorry LCD cab owners, this is CRT only. 

Les did say that it should work with a PC monitor, and I see in the product information it will indeed support up to 1024x768 37.5 KHz.

No price yet, this is basically hot off the presses and I'd really like to thank Les for being so helpful and informative. 

Area51 or Time Crisis anyone and with the real arcade guns? 

[TheShanMan]

At $73.50 for a basic gun from Happ (and even cheaper thru divemaster assuming he'd carry these once the interface board is available), that certainly allows some room for the cost of the interface board given my desired max of $100 per gun (I want 2 of course). Definitely good news!

I've become pretty jaded about light guns for mame though - I subconsciously expect there to be a major drawback of one sort or another. Personally I don't consider the cables to be a drawback - I don't want my kids walking off with the guns! I just wonder what that drawback will be.

Now, I have a vertical monitor that I run at 1024x1280. I'm sure all the lightgun games probably are horizontal, which would be a problem for me if the resolution of the game is anything higher than 800x600. A 1024x768 game would run at 1280x1024 on my monitor, which according to the specs you mention wouldn't fly. Anyone know what the max resolution for lightgun games is?

[wbassett]

I agree Shanman, it's easy to get jaded.

I was pretty impressed with Happ though and their communications and support. 

Les did say these still need to be tested, and he didn't give any prices yet.

If this card can do all on the list, it can also act as a controller interface for some buttons and coin ops, and the 35W amplifier... I can trash my crappy Durabrand 30W amp now!

Shanman, keep in mind you can also build your own gun, Happ sells optic boards too... in fact they sell all the gun guts as well as replacement gun shells or complete units. 

Now we have to see how this baby performs and what the ultimate price will be.

At $73.50 for a basic gun from Happ (and even cheaper thru divemaster assuming he'd carry these once the interface board is available), that certainly allows some room for the cost of the interface board given my desired max of $100 per gun (I want 2 of course). Definitely good news!

Yeah two basic actual arcade guns, $147... as long as this board pans out and is reasonbly priced, this could be right around the price of a two gun ActLabs setup, plus this board can also be used as a controller for other things as well. 

[u_rebelscum]

I wonder what's the other company?

...Multiple Video Support...

Good.

Built in Audio Amplifier...

I don't see a need for us here, but what the hay.

Gun Support
Input Support
Output Support

Good
good
good

System Interface
The design uses USB 2.0 HID.
•Standard USB Connector
•Interfaces to system as HID Standard 2 axis,
joysticks
•Works with Linux, Windows and other OS

good, good, good  (and yes acting as an analog joystick is fine for mame)

•No Drivers Required

Wrong.  Wrong, wrong wrong.  (I hate that above false statement;; makes support so much harder.)

It's market-speak for "Seems like it doesn't require the user to install a driver, since the device uses a standard driver that comes with the OS that installs automatically". 
It needs a driver, period.

Not that this is a reason to not buy it; it's so common that it's almost a required lie market-speak stat to sell to the masses nowadays. [sigh]

[/rant=off]

Power Support
Firmware Upgradeability...

This looks like very good news!

Agree.  I await the product.

In a nutshell... Les said yes he has heard of ROR3 and the ULGI but they haven't received any for testing.

I swear the R0R3 ulgi used to be listed on-line on happs site a long time ago (around when, or just after, XP first came out, IIRC), as well as reselling r0r3's serial ucgi for a lot longer time (happs semi-recently dropped the serial tgci for the current USB ugci).  Happs also used to resell an Optipac-like interface from r0r3, around the same time (wayback); I own one of these.

[TPB]

R0R3 USB Optical Light Gun Interface Board (http://www.r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm)

I tried getting ahold of Jack J. McCauley at ROR3 about a half dozen times (not a good sign right there) and he is never at his number and I haven't received a call back from him.

I reckon the best option is still the HK-EMS Topgun, together with their upcoming Topgun II.

Don't get your hopes up with ROR3.

You're not the first guy who's unsuccessfully tried to enquire about that product.

I sent an email to R0R3, and they never bothered to respond.

Others have reported the same lack of interest from them.


Possibilities :

** This guy's no longer in business,

** He no longer offers this particular product for sale,

** His customer service is UP SH-IT CREEK,

** He's not interested in retail sales ... he only does "B2B" transactions, ie, bulk quantities to wholesale business customers.

[wbassett]

TPB I don't have any hopes up for ROR3.  After leaving several voice mails with Jack and never getting a reply I got the feeling they didn't care if they sold the ULGI or not, like you said maybe they only sold to other businesses and not private individuals.  After talking to Happ today, I got the impression ROR3 may not even have one ready to sell.  Les said they have been waiting for one to test and even they can't get one.

I'd say they definitely are up the creek.  If it's that hard to get ahold of them for a sale, I'd hate to think what customer support is like if there is a problem.  I'd say option number 2 applies, he no longer offers this product forsale.


u_rebelscum- I didn't ask Happ, but I'd guess after trying to get the UGLI and having no luck, Happ probably removed the listing on their site.  They still sell the UGCI though like you mentioned.

All in all, the lack of response from ROR3 that multiple people have just mentioned, they aren't sending out a very good message.

Here is the interface the other company has-


As far as the HK-EMS TopGun being the best option, they are the only off the shelf option for non-CRT setups.  This new interface still needs testing as well as we have to find out how much it is going to cost.  If the company really is targeting us, the MAME market, then the price should be reasonable, but they also could be pigs about the price knowing they have a unique product... especially if it works and works well.  Let's hope they are reasonable about the price.

Happ guns start at $73.50, and Beston guns start at $69.95.  For the sake of debate, let's go with a hopefull guess the interface will cost no more than $75, and more importantly, it actually does what the company says.  That's  $214 - $222 for a two gun setup with actual arcade guns.  Plus the board can drive your cab's speakers (35W is more than enough for me) and you can connect 24 digital inputs.  Not too shabby... if it works, and if it's around that price range.

Looking at the board, it has a VGA video passthrough like the ActLabs VGA interface, but you only need this one unit to connect two guns, not two at $79.99 each and then you still have to buy the guns, and an IPAQ or other controller interface for the cp. 

Since I don't have an LCD display and am not restricted to just one type of gun, I am definitely interested in this. 

[Timstuff]

This seems like a good option if you are using a genuine arcade monitor, which many people who would actually be using real arcade guns likely would be. However, there's still that unfilled niche for people who are using TVs and LCD monitors, who would like to get their hands on an arcade-quality light gun, but are forced to settle for the likes of the LCD Topgun. That's not a dis against the Topgun, but compared to the real guns that I play House of the Dead, Time Crisis 2, and Jurassic Park with at the arcade, it nowhere near as durable or sturdy feeling, and the kickback is totally weaksauce.

Maybe the ideal solution for someone like me, would be if someone could make a conversion kit for the topgun. If there was a way to open the thing up, put it in a beefier, sturdier, more "arcade-like" casing, and possibly throw in a more powerful motor for the kickback, that would be awesome. I don't know how complicated it'd be to transfer the guts of a Topgun into a new casing (or swapping out the motors, for that matter), but it seems like it'd be a worthy endeavor for any entrepreneur with the resources to do it.

[CheffoJeffo]

This, if it indeed turns out, is the solution that I want -- thanks, wbassett, for the detailed update.

It might be time to change the JAMMA gun cabinet to a MAME gun cabinet ... which is good since I'm bored of Lethal Enforcers and Egg Venture.  The audio amp will come in handy there.

[stan2323]

Gun Support
The design supports existing off the shelf light guns.
•Molex 8 pin 0.100” Connectors
•Works with Happ & Betson / Imperial Guns &
Rifles
•No Modifications to guns or board required

Assuming means it will support the 29 inch pump action shot gun I may be interested in this. 

[northerngames]

Hopefully it can do composite and seperate sync and still work correctly.

[TPB]

wbasset,

This is indeed great news.

Nothing beats the feel or quality of a Genuine Arcade gun.

Les was fantastic to talk to and did tell me that they are supposed to be getting an interface from a different company to check out that will allow their arcade guns to be connected directly to a PC.  He sent me some information and it looks pretty good from the overview pdf.

... link or attachment ?

[Jdurg]

Wow.  This sounds incredible!  It's a gun interface, an audio amplifier, AND a video converter.  So would this device make it so that I wouldn't need to purchase an ArcadeVGA card, but could instead just plug my computer video output into this thing and it would convert it the proper signal for a real Arcade Monitor? 

If that's the case, I see $150 being a VERY reasonable price considering what it does.

[wbassett]

This seems like a good option if you are using a genuine arcade monitor, which many people who would actually be using real arcade guns likely would be. However, there's still that unfilled niche for people who are using TVs and LCD monitors, who would like to get their hands on an arcade-quality light gun, but are forced to settle for the likes of the LCD Topgun. That's not a dis against the Topgun, but compared to the real guns that I play House of the Dead, Time Crisis 2, and Jurassic Park with at the arcade, it nowhere near as durable or sturdy feeling, and the kickback is totally weaksauce.

Maybe the ideal solution for someone like me, would be if someone could make a conversion kit for the topgun. If there was a way to open the thing up, put it in a beefier, sturdier, more "arcade-like" casing, and possibly throw in a more powerful motor for the kickback, that would be awesome. I don't know how complicated it'd be to transfer the guts of a Topgun into a new casing (or swapping out the motors, for that matter), but it seems like it'd be a worthy endeavor for any entrepreneur with the resources to do it.

Tim it will work with a PC monitor too.  Off hand I'd say it wouldn't work with a TV though and we definitely know it won't work with any non-CRT technology.  It still isn't an all in one ultimate solution, and in my personal opinion there really isn't any one setup that is.  Some come close, but each have their pros and cons.

As far as gutting the TopGun and transferring it to a different gun casing, sure anything is possible.  People on this forum pull off the impossible everyday!

The only real weak area of the gun itself in my opinion is the recoil.  It could be a tad heavier just for that 'rugged feel' but you know what?  We really don't want a heavy gun, but like you said a beefy and sturdy gun. Too much heft and you wouldn't want to use it for hours on end. 

When mine wasn't working I did take it apart to see if it was something I could fix, and if I couldn't then I would have gutted it to see what all was in there.  The gun is pretty packed inside.  The circuit board doesn't look cheap and flimsy.  What really makes the TG look a bit cheap is the recoil slide.  If I were EMS I probably would drop the whimpy recoil for a solid body gun with a thumper or rumble pack in it, but before even doing that it still has to perform.    The new drivers sound really good, now if they can do something about those ugly cords on the LED sensor bars!  So yes you probably could transfer it to another gun.  Airsoft would be out unless it were a rifle because the board is bigger than what most pistols have room inside, but... Happcontrols sells arcade gun but keep in mind that is still going to set you back $40 or more.

This board if it pans out will give a viable option and competition to ActLabs, and as I have said in other threads, competition isn't always a bad thing.  The TopGun still doesn't have any commercial competition, so it's up to them to step up to the plate and become the standard they want to be.  They have to keep on their toes because the Wii mote does work and as far as accuracy, the people I have talked to that use it all say it is very accurate.  The number one problem with it right now for Mame is it needs a PC driver.  When that is developed, then there will be another viable option for LCD and all types of monitors.

As far as CRT users, specifically arcade CRTs and PC monitors, this is a very exciting option.

[wbassett]

wbasset,

This is indeed great news.

Nothing beats the feel or quality of a Genuine Arcade gun.

Les was fantastic to talk to and did tell me that they are supposed to be getting an interface from a different company to check out that will allow their arcade guns to be connected directly to a PC.  He sent me some information and it looks pretty good from the overview pdf.

... link or attachment ?

TPB all the information I have right now is what I posted in the first post.  Those are the specs of the new board.  This isn't from ROR3, it is a totally different company.

I transfered all the info directly from the PDF to here, can I put a file attachment here in the forum?  If so I can put the actual PDF up, I just don't know how and didn't know I could.

[wbassett]

Wow.  This sounds incredible!  It's a gun interface, an audio amplifier, AND a video converter.  So would this device make it so that I wouldn't need to purchase an ArcadeVGA card, but could instead just plug my computer video output into this thing and it would convert it the proper signal for a real Arcade Monitor? 

If that's the case, I see $150 being a VERY reasonable price considering what it does.

Honestly I don't know and can't answer that and right now neither can Les because the board still has to be tested and run through its paces.

I interpreted it as the board accepts and passes through the video signal for sync purposes and supports the resolutions listed, but I don't think it converts to different resolutions.  You'd still need a card that supports whatever resolution your monitor uses.  It is nice that in addition to PC standard VGA connectors it also has arcade low/med resolution molex connectors.  Now what would be cool, but I seriously doubt the board does this or could handle it would be if you could plug in a VGA connector from the video card (set to arcade resolution either through native settings or with Powerstip) and then use the molex connector out to the monitor.  My bet is it's VGA to VGA, molex to molex...

We'll know more once we get our hands on one.  IF it does everything it says, it might be a nice little gem especially for someone building a new cab.  It sounds like it basically will handle most (but not all) of the common types of controller inputs in addition to supporting actual arcade light gun hardware.  Everyone has said they wished there was an easy way to connect an actual arcade gun to a MAME system, this may be that ticket.

[divemaster127]

I do stock the basic red & blue happ styles of this gun & I do provide cheaper, several other colors are available, at the moment I do not stock these.  That would be awesome to be able to use these guns on our mame cabs
dm

[Timstuff]

This seems like a good option if you are using a genuine arcade monitor, which many people who would actually be using real arcade guns likely would be. However, there's still that unfilled niche for people who are using TVs and LCD monitors, who would like to get their hands on an arcade-quality light gun, but are forced to settle for the likes of the LCD Topgun. That's not a dis against the Topgun, but compared to the real guns that I play House of the Dead, Time Crisis 2, and Jurassic Park with at the arcade, it nowhere near as durable or sturdy feeling, and the kickback is totally weaksauce.

Maybe the ideal solution for someone like me, would be if someone could make a conversion kit for the topgun. If there was a way to open the thing up, put it in a beefier, sturdier, more "arcade-like" casing, and possibly throw in a more powerful motor for the kickback, that would be awesome. I don't know how complicated it'd be to transfer the guts of a Topgun into a new casing (or swapping out the motors, for that matter), but it seems like it'd be a worthy endeavor for any entrepreneur with the resources to do it.

Tim it will work with a PC monitor too.  Off hand I'd say it wouldn't work with a TV though and we definitely know it won't work with any non-CRT technology.  It still isn't an all in one ultimate solution, and in my personal opinion there really isn't any one setup that is.  Some come close, but each have their pros and cons.

As far as gutting the TopGun and transferring it to a different gun casing, sure anything is possible.  People on this forum pull off the impossible everyday!

The only real weak area of the gun itself in my opinion is the recoil.  It could be a tad heavier just for that 'rugged feel' but you know what?  We really don't want a heavy gun, but like you said a beefy and sturdy gun. Too much heft and you wouldn't want to use it for hours on end. 

When mine wasn't working I did take it apart to see if it was something I could fix, and if I couldn't then I would have gutted it to see what all was in there.  The gun is pretty packed inside.  The circuit board doesn't look cheap and flimsy.  What really makes the TG look a bit cheap is the recoil slide.  If I were EMS I probably would drop the whimpy recoil for a solid body gun with a thumper or rumble pack in it, but before even doing that it still has to perform.    The new drivers sound really good, now if they can do something about those ugly cords on the LED sensor bars!  So yes you probably could transfer it to another gun.  Airsoft would be out unless it were a rifle because the board is bigger than what most pistols have room inside, but... Happcontrols sells arcade gun but keep in mind that is still going to set you back $40 or more.

Out of sheer curiosity, I went to Happ's website and saw that they sell replacement shells for House of the Dead's guns for a pretty reasonable $25. I wonder if there's enough room inside of it to make an LCD Topgun hack plausible?



http://happ.com/amusement/optical/op_guns.htm

[wbassett]

It should fit in there Tim but keep in mind that's $25 per side, so $50 for the complete gun shell.

[TPB]

It should fit in there Tim but keep in mind that's $25 per side, so $50 for the complete gun shell.

No, it's a better deal than that.

There are no separate product numbers for left or right halves, as would have to be the case if they were sold separately.

You get BOTH halves for the $25.78

It is called a "Sega Gun Half Set", and the product description states :

Set includes left and right gun half


http://happ.com/amusement/optical/25355408.htm

[TPB]

As opposed to this gun, which is sold in individual halves.

Accordingly, there's separate product numbers for the left and right gun halves :

http://happ.com/amusement/optical/CTF210100.htm


wbasset, this gun would be more to your liking.   

[wbassett]

It should fit in there Tim but keep in mind that's $25 per side, so $50 for the complete gun shell.

No, it's a better deal than that.

There are no separate product numbers for left or right halves, as would have to be the case if they were sold separately.

You get BOTH halves for the $25.78

It is called a "Sega Gun Half Set", and the product description states :

Set includes left and right gun half


http://happ.com/amusement/optical/25355408.htm

You're right, I miss read that.  Not bad at all then.

[wbassett]

As opposed to this gun, which is sold in individual halves.

Accordingly, there's separate product numbers for the left and right gun halves :

http://happ.com/amusement/optical/CTF210100.htm


wbasset, this gun would be more to your liking.   

Actually these are more to my liking and the most expensive one cost me $30

But yes I do like that style.

[TPB]

From this point on, let's make this thread a "Topgun free zone", and keep it focused on this exciting new interface for Arcade light guns.

There's already plenty of other threads knocking about, for posts specifically related to the Topgun.





As the recently announced Topgun II appears a little underwhelming (just a rebadged Topgun with Vista support), this interface will be much appreciated.

Competition is always healthy, so if this product is a viable alternative for those with CRT displays, then bring it on !!

wbasset ...

Do you know any names (Product Name of the interface board, and the Company Name of those behind it) ?

It'd create a bit more excitement if it had a name, a buzzword of some sort, rather than just referring to it as "the new company's interface board".   

Please keep us updated with any further news !

[wbassett]

If I had a name trust me I would have posted it.  I think the issue is Happ doesn't want to jump the gun, this is new and they have to test it out yet before they put it on their site.  I got the impression the third party company wanted to sell through Happ so I can respect that they don't want to mention the name until they know if it's the real deal or not.

I already told Les as soon as he gets one I want to give it a try myself, so I'm waiting now just like everyone else.

This isn't the ultimate answer for everyone.  It still isn't an LCD or even a TV solution, but for arcade monitor users or PC monitor users this could finally allow us to have a very easy way to interface a real PC light gun into our system.

Has anyone seen the deal on ebay?  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=360059286358&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=023 10 arcade guns for $103!  Most are probably broken, but there are pistols and shotguns in there, and the replacement parts are pretty cheap.

We really need this interface!

[aljupy]

 

Oh man, I wish they make it LCD/All screens compatible.

Now I can not live without it.

I say it, because I would like a LightGun wich is like a Joystick. So..... Old LightGun games should be very very compatible. HOD1, Vcop, Vcop2, Everything wich joystick would be playable as lightgun.....

Regards

[wbassett]

I sent Les an email for an update and he responded saying they just received the boards they ordered and will be testing them out in a couple of days.  If they pass muster he'll have some more detailed information and I think we will be close to an availability date and price.

[TPB]

wbasset,

Thanks for keeping us posted.   

This product has great potential.

[wbassett]

It sure sounds good, but let's hope it's not too good to be true and ends up having some major issues.

At least they got some boards to test out.  ROR3 never sent Happ anything to evaluate so at at least this is a good sign that there is at least a product this time.

[highlander4]

Are there any updates on when the lightgun interface might be available?

[wbassett]

No no new updates.  I'm disappointed too.  Everything was going great too... good communications, a very interesting sounding product, and then boom... I haven't heard back from Les in weeks now.

[highlander4]

Thanks for the reply.  I already have a gun for my arcade, but would like to have a real arcade gun with the bolt action .

[Shieldwolf]

AMEN TO THAT!
Give me that and a pedal and I'm good to go.

[wbassett]

I'll hit him up again and see where they are at.  They definitely should be done with their testing by now.

[davidrfoley]

http://www.nanotechent.com/opti-gun.php

[davidrfoley]

I spoke to Les at Happ.

I called in reference to R0R3 USB Optical Light Gun Interface Board (http://www.r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm).  I tried getting ahold of Jack J. McCauley at ROR3 about a half dozen times (not a good sign right there) and he is never at his number and I haven't received a call back from him.

ROR3 had nothing to do with this board or its design.  If you were told that you were misled.  The board is manufactured and sold by NanoTech Entertainment, and Happ is one of the distributors of the board.

[davidrfoley]

Wow.  This sounds incredible!  It's a gun interface, an audio amplifier, AND a video converter.  So would this device make it so that I wouldn't need to purchase an ArcadeVGA card, but could instead just plug my computer video output into this thing and it would convert it the proper signal for a real Arcade Monitor? 

It does not provide video conversion.  The video connectors on the board are simply pass through for the signal so that the board can pick up the sync signals for timing of the gun circuits.

[wbassett]

I spoke to Les at Happ.

I called in reference to R0R3 USB Optical Light Gun Interface Board (http://www.r0r3.com/productsusbopticalgun.htm).  I tried getting ahold of Jack J. McCauley at ROR3 about a half dozen times (not a good sign right there) and he is never at his number and I haven't received a call back from him.

ROR3 had nothing to do with this board or its design.  If you were told that you were misled.  The board is manufactured and sold by NanoTech Entertainment, and Happ is one of the distributors of the board.

Sorry if I wasn't clear...

No I did not mean that ROR3 had anything to do with this new board.  I was saying Happ had a light gun interface listed at one time from ROR3.  I tried repeatedly to contact ROR3 about the interface and never once got a call back nor was Jack ever in his office.  As I stated that was a very bad sign and vibe.  I then called Happ and spoke to them and was informed they never received a board from ROR3 to test so they were pulling it from their site. 

Les at Happ did tell me of this new board and that they do indeed have one and are in the process of testing it out.  I relayed the vast interest that many have and he said when they were done testing he would make one available to me to test and write a review on.  (If you want to send me one to write a review on that would be fantastic and I am more than positive a lot of people are chomping at the bit to find out more about this board and what it can do )

Right now I am waiting to hear back from him as are many others.  This is the board that a lot of us have been waiting for!

Dave maybe you can answer some other questions about it if you don't mind...

The pdf I have lists that this board also has multiple inputs, I am assuming for buttons and sticks.  Does that mean this can act like an interface for our purposes for cp controls?  If so, the 35W amplifer, light gun interface, as well as a CP interface makes this very interesting.

Next question, can you give any details on the sonic board?  Are there currently guns in production for this technology and if so who makes them and any idea of the MSRP?

[Shieldwolf]

200.00 for this and 900.00 for two Time Crisis Guns. Might as well buy Time Crisis machine

[wbassett]

200.00 for this and 900.00 for two Time Crisis Guns. Might as well buy Time Crisis machine

Keep in mind we don't have a real street price on this yet, and you don't have to get $900 guns, you can use the basic arcade guns with this too. 

eBay has arcade guns listed on a regular basis too.

Personally, I'm just waiting for all these interfaces to settle and a viable option finally come out of all this and then I will be retro-fitting the optic boards from into airsoft electric guns.  There is plenty of room inside them and the air pistons provide quite a recoil kick.  In fact my P90 kicks so hard and loud I'll actually have to tame it down. 


A new recoil gun from Happ is $147
http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/optical/962700xxtc.htm

As far as Time Crisis guns, right now on eBay there are two auctions, one is for three guns and is currently at $188.  The other is for one Time Crisis gun and is at $9.99 right now.  If you keep a sharp eye you can find a good deal and then you'll be wanting an interface to connect it to.

I'm just as interested to hear about the 24 inputs, as in can these be used for player buttons and work with MAME? 

[davidrfoley]

The pdf I have lists that this board also has multiple inputs, I am assuming for buttons and sticks.  Does that mean this can act like an interface for our purposes for cp controls? 

Yes, I designed this board so that it would be the only board required to implement a gun game in an arcade cabinet.  It has 24 general inputs and 8 general outputs, plus 2 force feedback outputs.

Next question, can you give any details on the sonic board?  Are there currently guns in production for this technology and if so who makes them and any idea of the MSRP?

We have released the prototype PCB's for production and are working on the firmware and DSP code.  We are hoping to wrap up the Sonic Gun System very soon.  We already have some major manufaturers waiting for delivery.  Happ has signed up for exclusive distribution rights for the coin-op market, so they will be the only manufacturer in the coin-op space.  NanoTech will be releasing a consumer version of the Sonic Gun System including Guns and Rifles and plan on licensing it to other Consumer distributors.

I have no idea on the MSRP, but the goal was to make it not that much more expsensive than the optical technology.  The sensors costs a little bit more, and four are needed around the screen and one or two in the gun.  There is also a DSP on the board which adds some costs.  Otherwise, the electronics, and plastics are almost identical to the OptiGun solution.  I designed the gun and rifle PCB's to use the same footprint as the current guns so minimal changes to the housings would be required for the Sonic Gun System.

[wbassett]

Thanks for the answers.

Some have asked in another thread if the sonic sensors will work behind plexi or glass? 

One of my complaints about the TopGun sensor bars is that they look bad hanging on the from of a cab.  Granted I realize they can be placed behind the glass, but this isn't my permanany gun setup so I'm not going to the trouble of hiding the sensor bars when I plan on replacing the gun system anyway.

Also what is the range?  That is another common complaint about the IR based guns.  How far back do you have to stand?  How is the accuracy as compared to other acrade guns and does it flash the screen like they do?  (I'd think a screen flash wouldn't be necessary with a sonic sensor system)

[davidrfoley]

I'll start a new thread about the Sonic Gun System since this thread is really about the lightgun (optical gun system)

[Bondo]

I was wondering if any one heard back about the Opti-Gun Adaptor.

[davidrfoley]

Happ had working boards, unfortunately they never tested them with Happ Guns, just with Area 51 guns.  We are taking a look at adding Area 51 gun support to the firmware now.

[Bondo]

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the quick reply.
Has there been anymore talk about the stripped down version of this board. The only things I'm really looking for is it to work with a standard Happ gun and thier recoil gun.

[davidrfoley]

If we see some interest in the product, we may build a "lite" version, but it's expensive to respin the board so we have to see if there is enough interest to justify the expense.

[brandon]

Happ had working boards, unfortunately they never tested them with Happ Guns, just with Area 51 guns.  We are taking a look at adding Area 51 gun support to the firmware now.

what is the different between the Area 51 gun and the Happ guns? I was under the impression that light guns were little more than a photocell and a switch..  In which case you could hack a NES zapper to work with one of these interface boards

[TeutonicDarkness]

http://www.nanotechent.com/opti-gun.php

 OK just got in on this discussion.
So all I need is this device and 2 actual Haap Arcade guns?
I'm confused with everything still being discussed....
Is the product finished and ready to go?

I mean there is a buy now button on that site
so I kinda was thinking its fully done and selling now?


OK ... Stupid question alert!!!

How exactly does this interface with the PC does
it plug into a pci slot ;or does this device plug in from a PC
usb then Arcade guns interface from there?

Just trying to be clear.


Thanks,

[jeffremiller]

Any updates on this?

Anyone actually tested this board?

[JayB]

I'd be interested to know also as I have two Happ arcade guns sitting unused at the moment.

[wbassett]

Sorry, I don't have any new updates.

I'll contact Les, but if I have to do a purchase instead of getting a loaner for a review it will have to wait until after Christmas.

I am also probably going to go with an LCD display, but haven't totally decided yet so Dave's Sonic gun system may be more practical for me.  I was getting interested in the EMS RF TopGun and hoped that they finally had full working products ready but it sounds like these also have some bugs and issues.  We'll have to wait and see some more reviews I guess.

[dkubarek]

Is the Sonic Gun ready yet? Any work on its arrival?

[peterpepper]

Sorry, I don't have any new updates.

I'll contact Les, but if I have to do a purchase instead of getting a loaner for a review it will have to wait until after Christmas.

Any news from Les? Christmas is gone too

...we are tuned from Italy too, since June
http://www.mameitalia.net/index.php?showtopic=8942

P.S. I also have a couple of questions: will the OptiGun work with the original Namco guns too? and, much more important: on the NanoTech datasheet only 5 resolutions are listed to be working... does this mean that we'll have to force light gun games to work stretched at one of those resolutions? or will they work at their native resolutions? (i.e. operation wolf works @ 320x240, point blank is 288x224, jurassic park is 416x224, and so on...)

[sWampy]

Aren't wii-mote's put into a gun shell going to be the ultimate solution once better drivers are written.  They work with any display technology,  any display orientation, resolution, etc.   By controlling the distance between the led's you can control how close or far back you stand.   I played hod on the wii with 2 perfect shot holders on a 100"+ projector, and it was awesome, 2 players shots dead on. 

[Games001]

The only problem thus far is the CRAP drivers for the Wiimotes these days.  Once they clean them up, I can see no reason not to include the Wiimote as a standard for many home machines.

[peterpepper]

We already have working solutions around:
* for crt: GunCon2 + Smog's GunCon2PC driver or Acorn's WinGun driver)
* for lcd: EMS TopGun II

The topic here is about using real arcade guns... isn't it?

[Siris]

Happ had working boards, unfortunately they never tested them with Happ Guns, just with Area 51 guns.  We are taking a look at adding Area 51 gun support to the firmware now.

Not sure I understand that, from what I can tell from the Happ site:

http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/optical/96067000.htm

The guns interchange with a simple dongle to change connectors. So why would that need a firmware revision?

I haven't been around in years but just picked up an Area 51 Site 4 cab got it working beautiful with soft15khz, I was just getting my Act labs gun working on my VGA monitor to try on the 25".

So happened upon this thread, That adapter would be awesome for me, would love to see these Site 4 guns put to good use.

BTW: is the shoot off screen to reload in Area 51 working?

[sWampy]

We already have working solutions around:
* for crt: GunCon2 + Smog's GunCon2PC driver or Acorn's WinGun driver)
* for lcd: EMS TopGun II

The topic here is about using real arcade guns... isn't it?

Both those work like crap, I've wasted a ton of time and money trying to get both to work worth a crap.

As far real arcade guns, they are all very limited, work with only one type of monitor, one resolution, very limited ranges they work in, etc.   

When the driver problems get ironed out with wii remotes, they can be retrofitted in to just about any real arcade gun case you can think of and actually work with modern monitors/computers.

[Siris]

Just found out that soft15khz and the act labs gun is a no go. :/
I thought I read it would work with separate h/v sync???

[davidrfoley]

Arcade Guns do not have any limitation on resolution or support a single monitor type.  Real Arcade guns are only limited to CRT technology.  They won't work with LCD's or Plasma's.  We support several resolutions and monitors with the OptiGun board and Happ or Betson light guns.  The range we can work with is from 320x200 15KHz to 1024x768 31KHz.  Most Arcade CRTs run at one of three resolutions, 320x200 15KHz, 512x384 24.5KHz, or 640x480 31KHz.  Some modern arcade tubes also support 800x600 31 KHz.  The light guns themselves have no concept of resolution, they are merely an optical sensor that picks up where the gun is located on the screen at the time the trigger is pulled.

As for the statement about retrofitting new technology into the old housings, that is correct.  We are currently using the existing Happ plastics for the Sonic Gun System testing and have built our PCB's in the same footprint as the current optical PCB's so that the housings can be used with no tool changes to existing plastics.  We built a small plastic barrel insert to allow for focusing of the beam inside the gun where the lens used to be placed.

[davidrfoley]

Happ had working boards, unfortunately they never tested them with Happ Guns, just with Area 51 guns.  We are taking a look at adding Area 51 gun support to the firmware now.

Not sure I understand that, from what I can tell from the Happ site:

http://www.happcontrols.com/amusement/optical/96067000.htm

The guns interchange with a simple dongle to change connectors. So why would that need a firmware revision?

I haven't been around in years but just picked up an Area 51 Site 4 cab got it working beautiful with soft15khz, I was just getting my Act labs gun working on my VGA monitor to try on the 25".

So happened upon this thread, That adapter would be awesome for me, would love to see these Site 4 guns put to good use.

BTW: is the shoot off screen to reload in Area 51 working?

We have had problems with the Area 51 guns and our OptiGun Controller.  We are looking into upgrading the firmware to support the gun.  There is no documentation available from Happ, so we are reverse engineering the gun to see why it generates a different output signal than the standard light guns.  When you compare the basic output of the Area 51 Gun to that of the standard guns, it's very different.  We have both and will have an update for them soon.

[peterpepper]

Hi Dave,

1. will the OptiGun work with the original Namco Time Crisis III Guns too?

2. on the OptiGun datasheet only 5 resolutions are listed to be working... does this mean that we'll have to force light gun games to work stretched at one of those resolutions? or will they work at their native resolutions? (i.e. operation wolf works @ 320x240, point blank is 288x224, jurassic park is 416x224, and so on...)

3. if we buy an OptiGun now, will we be able to upgrade its firmware in the future? ...and were will we find firmware upgrades?

4. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[Shoegazer]

David, have you targeted a release date for the Sonic system?

Shoegazer

[davidrfoley]

Sorry, we don't set target release dates on engineering projects as it only makes for disappointments if something goes wrong.  Since we are creating a bunch of hardware, software and DSP code from scratch we can't give a release date.  I can tell you that we have a prototype board up and running with the sensor circuitry all powered.  We are in the DSP portion of the project now.

[Siris]

Hey David,

You need someone "out of house" to help debug/beta test the Optigun board?
Like I said I have a working Area 51 Site 4 cab that I swap to a Mame cab just by swapping the monitor cable and unplugging the jamma board.
I sent you a PM.

Troy

[davidrfoley]

Thanks, we have Area 51 guns in house, and we are seeing that they generate a very different signal on the scope than a normal gun does.  We will work on it soon and figure out how to support it.

[Siris]

Just thought I'd ask.
What better way to say the product will work in a dedicated cab then to do it and see.
Anyway hurry up then, I want one! heh

Troy

[peterpepper]

  any news?

[CathalDublin]

Aren't wii-mote's put into a gun shell going to be the ultimate solution once better drivers are written.  They work with any display technology,  any display orientation, resolution, etc.   By controlling the distance between the led's you can control how close or far back you stand.   I played hod on the wii with 2 perfect shot holders on a 100"+ projector, and it was awesome, 2 players shots dead on. 

whos writing the drivers, is there a website?

[TeutonicDarkness]

 OK just thought of a question...
regarding the OptiGun adapter:

Does the gun(cursor) actually track when used in Mame?
or will it work like the Act Labs gun that only
moves where you shoot?

I didn't seem to see any mention of if gun/cursor would actually
track.

I plan on using an Arcade monitor.. so not worried to much about
the sonic gun.




I'm almost sold on this just need a few questions answered.


Thanks,


*** Teutonic Darkness ***

[davidrfoley]

All light guns require a very bright image on screen (ie white screen) in order to pick up the raster gun to coordinate the x,y location that you are aiming at.  This is why light gun games flash the screen white when you pull the trigger.  You can attempt to constantly track the gun without flashing the screen, but black areas of the screen will become dead zones.

[geocab]

Is that why light guns don't typically work well with LCD screens?  Because they can't do white as brightly as a CRT?

[davidrfoley]

No, light guns don't work with LCD's because there is no raster painting the screen.  The way a raster display works is there is a gun at the back of the tube that moves across the tube. one line at a time painting the image against a phosphor coating on the back of the glass.  When excited by the beam, the phosphor holds the charge momentarily, long enough that the gun can move from top to bottom without the imaging noticeably fading.  This is tubes have a little glow to them after you shut them off.  There is a sensor inside the gun that takes a snapshot of the screen and waits for the beam to cross past the sensor, and then it takes the refresh timing of the display and figures out where the where the gun is pointing.

[geocab]

Thanks for the explanation, David.  I'm still researching cabinets and trying to decide what I want to include, etc. and I think I'm pretty much stuck with a CRT monitor since I want to use light guns. 

[TeutonicDarkness]

All light guns require a very bright image on screen (ie white screen) in order to pick up the raster gun to coordinate the x,y location that you are aiming at.  This is why light gun games flash the screen white when you pull the trigger.  You can attempt to constantly track the gun without flashing the screen, but black areas of the screen will become dead zones.

 OK that still doesn't answer my question?
So let me ask again in a very simple easy to understand way....

If I use this supposed device with a arcade lightgun playing Mame;
will The cursor move with where I point the gun?
Say for example I wanted to try this device with Terminator 2
would the Cursor track with the gun movement or only
( lock in when I fire)? The act Labs guns do not track but
the cursor only moves position on screen when you fire there.

 Is that the case with this as well?


I hoped I explained myself a little better now..

[smalltownguy]

The Act labs guns, like other CRT based guns, won't actively track the current pointing position. When you depress the trigger on one of those guns, the gun analyzes the current gun position 'while redrawing the screen' and locks in at that point. There are L.E.D. based systems (like the Top Gun) that get around this.

We all wait with baited breath for a Wii crack....
 

[Luigi]

Hi.

As far as I know, T2 guns don't work optical but with pots for X- and Y-axis. If you move the gun the pots increase/decrease and so the position you're aiming at is given to the pcb (OMG, I hope that sentence makes sence...sorry for my english   ) That is the reason why the guns are attached to the control panel.

I don't think that it is possible to emulate that with optical arcade guns.

If you use EMS Topguns with Gun2mouse....that might work because there are sensors left and right of the screen (LCD and plasma, too) that allow to get the position all the time without a white flash. I'm still waiting for some time to install the gun to my notebook so I can test it with my plasma

Maybe someone else here knows if it works that the crosshair moves with the Topgun.....

[Todd H]

We all wait with baited breath for a Wii crack....
 

Supposedly it's coming. The people behind the Pinnacle Game Profiler are promising full support for the Wii-mote in the future.

http://www.pinnaclegameprofiler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2269&start=105&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

[davidrfoley]

No, it won't track like Terminator.  Terminator didn't use a light gun.  It used a joystick to play the game, it was just disguised as a light gun.  The terminator gun was nothing more than a large joystick with a plastic housing. 

As I stated before, Light Guns can only track like that if you have a very bright (ie white) screen.  If you put up a white background, a light gun can track the movement of the gun, however, when you hit a black area on the screen, it will not be able to track.

[TeutonicDarkness]

No, it won't track like Terminator.  Terminator didn't use a light gun.  It used a joystick to play the game, it was just disguised as a light gun.  The terminator gun was nothing more than a large joystick with a plastic housing. 

 I think most of use here are quite aware of how The original
Terminator gun worked...

I really wouldn't care if it was a joystick, keyboard, mouse,
whatever, as long as it looked like a gun acted liked a gun;
and worked with more than just 2 games.

I think what we would like to see however is a solution
that would work with all games regardless!

As I stated before, Light Guns can only track like that if you have a very bright (ie white) screen.  If you put up a white background, a light gun can track the movement of the gun, however, when you hit a black area on the screen, it will not be able to track.

 You know I heard a lot of people complain about the flashing
of the ACT Lab Guns.. I really don't mind it at all If I can find
a solution that will track and support more than 2 games..


 A Well I had hoped...

guess I'll just hold off for something else

[wbassett]

No, it won't track like Terminator.  Terminator didn't use a light gun.  It used a joystick to play the game, it was just disguised as a light gun.  The terminator gun was nothing more than a large joystick with a plastic housing. 

 I think most of use here are quite aware of how The original
Terminator gun worked...

I really wouldn't care if it was a joystick, keyboard, mouse,
whatever, as long as it looked like a gun acted liked a gun;
and worked with more than just 2 games.

I think what we would like to see however is a solution
that would work with all games regardless!

As I stated before, Light Guns can only track like that if you have a very bright (ie white) screen.  If you put up a white background, a light gun can track the movement of the gun, however, when you hit a black area on the screen, it will not be able to track.

 You know I heard a lot of people complain about the flashing
of the ACT Lab Guns.. I really don't mind it at all If I can find
a solution that will track and support more than 2 games..


 A Well I had hoped...

guess I'll just hold off for something else

I think I know what you are asking...  can you play any shooting game with it?

From what I understand talking to Les from Happ and from what Dave has explained is this will be exactly like what you experience at a real arcade playing games with real arcade guns because it is essentially a replacement board for existing arcade machines but will also work for our (MAME) applications.  Will it work with everything?  No, but nothing works perfectly with everything across the board.

For Games like Terminator, Jurasic Park and other joystick based 'guns', this probably won't be ideal.  You can however pick up those 'guns' on ebay for dirt cheap.  I snagged a pair of 'guns' for $29 including shipping. 

I am still waiting for this board or the Sonic board to become available for my light gun games.  Until then I am limping by with a first gen Topgun.

[TeutonicDarkness]

 Yeah I have considered getting some of those joystick based
guns off ebay...

However I just don't see why a solution could not be achieved?

The cursor tracks on most of these games with a mouse,
keyboard/ keyboard encoded joystick, even a gamepad.

Also there are the few people that got the LCD top guns to
work... that can confirm that these games will work
because it is seen as a mouse.


I just dont get it?
They work with a mouse, keyboard, joystick...

Why cant someone Just have one of the Above devices
encased in a gun shell ( With smooth cursor tracking ability)
and sell it?

[davidrfoley]

because there is not enough demand for someone to invest the amount of money to build such a product.  The MAME market finds that anything over $100 is "too expensive" and the cost for Terminator style guns in low quantity is several hundred dollars (I designed this type of gun system for the Aliens arcade game)

We are developing the sonic gun system that will work with any screen, and will work as a mouse or joystick.  Once we get into production we are hoping to have a consumer version that will be cost effective for the BYOAC community to endorse and use.

[TeutonicDarkness]

because there is not enough demand for someone to invest the amount of money to build such a product.  The MAME market finds that anything over $100 is "too expensive" and the cost for Terminator style guns in low quantity is several hundred dollars (I designed this type of gun system for the Aliens arcade game)

We are developing the sonic gun system that will work with any screen, and will work as a mouse or joystick.  Once we get into production we are hoping to have a consumer version that will be cost effective for the BYOAC community to endorse and use.

 Ok I do realize that There are several different gun Type Games.
Some are actual Lightguns some are joystick mount guns,
etc.

I also realize there is not something that will work on everything..
( Some games are not even fully emulated )

If the Sonic gun will work with Terminator 2 style games,
and at least most of the others... And give me a smooth
working cursors that track as I point across the screen.

I would probably buy about 4 of them regardless of price...

[davidrfoley]

Sonic Gun will work with any game that works with a lightgun, mouse or joystick.  The SGS system can feed the PC with either Joystick or Mouse event info, which you can choose in setup.

[TeutonicDarkness]

Sonic Gun will work with any game that works with a lightgun, mouse or joystick.  The SGS system can feed the PC with either Joystick or Mouse event info, which you can choose in setup.

 That's good news.

Maybe if its ready by next year income tax time I'll buy a few of these!

[Siris]

David,

What is the latest news on the OptiGun?

[mayhem]

got to admit here guys. the best option and better than a top gun is the Wii controller. Its work 100% much better than a LCD top gun. I have 2 x Top gun ver 1's and 2 x top Gun version 2's. Now Both the first versions are no longer working correctly and one of the version 2's is on its way out all ready. I blame the kids but lets be honest here kids do love to play and thats what we were at one time.

The Wii remote with blue tooth connection and mouse driver work perfectly and don't need two massive LED light sticks on the screen at all only one single small wireless version does the job.. The only problem with the Wii controllers is the loading of the driver and its a pain in the ass in a cab having to manually load the driver for each game but if this was automated via a macro (which i have been working on for my c-macc's 2). Now yes its not perfect but the gains are much better than most options out there atm.

pro of the wii are

1) They do not brake easy
2) Cheap
3) IT WORKS and you dont need to be a genius to get them to work.
4) Wireless
5) i bet you can re house them
6) works on LCD / CRT / arcade mon

cons are

1) No kick back
2) Needs work on the driver and a macro setting up
3) Blue tooth only
4) does not look like a gun !!!!
5) HOTD 2 just isn't as fun than with a real light gun

[Franco B]

I still need to have a play with wii controllers with mame. The setup is putting me off but i'm going to give it a go.

As regards to the wii remote not looking like a gun, there are quite a few different remote 'housings' that make the controller look and feel more like a gun:











Just search ebay for 'Wii Guns'. I bought a pair of the bottom ones for about £6 delivered.

[AndyWarne]

There are two issues which mean that the Wii Controller is not an ideal solution as a gun, although seems adequate for many people.
The first is that it was never designed to be a calibrated device, as the Wii pointer just roughly moves in the direction of the controller, it does not follow the controller exactly.
This can be partly overcome by drivers which have some kind of calibration built in, so it can be calibrated in such as way that when the gun is lined up, the pointer follows it.

Then this leads onto the second problem. In the Wii setup, the pointer moves further than the relative movement of the controller. This means its easy to ensure the sensor in the remote can always see the IR LEDs, beacuse the movement of the controller is quite small, the LEDs are always in the field of view.

In a calibrated setup, the controller needs to move further, in fact it needs to be physically pointed at the corners of the screen, at worst case. This means it would lose sight of the LEDs, unless the controller is located a good distance away from the screen. Most people prefer the gun to be quite close to the screen, so this makes this problem even more difficult to overcome.

[Dartful Dodger]

As regards to the wii remote not looking like a gun, there are quite a few different remote 'housings' that make the controller look and feel more like a gun:

This one looks and feels perfect:




The problem with the wii-mote is you aim by putting the cursor on the target, I want a gun that's accurate enough so you can use the sites on the gun.

[CheffoJeffo]

I'm curious how many, out of the "Wii is the ultimate solution" fans have played a gun game on the Wii and also played gun games in the arcade ... because I'm pretty sure that the Wiimote would suck for arcade usage.

It may seem like you are "aiming" the "gun" because moving the Wiimote moves the reticule, but reticule's location and where the "gun" is actually aimed don't appear to coincide all that much. Maybe a driver tweak could get around that, but I'm not convinced.

My observations after getting ---my bottom--- handed to me by my son in HotD on the Wii and then totally kicking his ass on the same game in the arcade because the act of "aiming" is completely different between the two.

 

[claypool]

has there been any  more developments in a solution for arcade light guns for the pc?

[DJ_Izumi]

It may seem like you are "aiming" the "gun" because moving the Wiimote moves the reticule, but reticule's location and where the "gun" is actually aimed don't appear to coincide all that much. Maybe a driver tweak could get around that, but I'm not convinced.

Some Wii games do support this.  Where you can calibrate the WiiMote so you can shoot down the barrel rather than use it like a mouse in your hand.  I know that Ghost Squad supported this however I've never played the Wii version and I'm quite unsure how wel it actually WORKS.

...And why didn't Ghost Squat or Virtua Cop 3 get ported to Xbox?  They ran on the Xbox based Chihiro just like HOTD3! :/

[severdhed]

It may seem like you are "aiming" the "gun" because moving the Wiimote moves the reticule, but reticule's location and where the "gun" is actually aimed don't appear to coincide all that much. Maybe a driver tweak could get around that, but I'm not convinced.

Some Wii games do support this.  Where you can calibrate the WiiMote so you can shoot down the barrel rather than use it like a mouse in your hand.  I know that Ghost Squad supported this however I've never played the Wii version and I'm quite unsure how wel it actually WORKS.

...And why didn't Ghost Squat or Virtua Cop 3 get ported to Xbox?  They ran on the Xbox based Chihiro just like HOTD3! :/

i have the wii version of ghost squad, as well as house fo the dead 2 and 3, both of which allow you to calibrate the gun.  once i did the calibration, i was able to play the game just fine with the crosshairs turned off, so aiming the gun works pretty well in those games.    the biggest problem with the wii, is that the sensor bar is too small to allow for accurate calibration on a big screen.  I use mine on a 102" screen, but i need to stand between 12 and 15 ft back in order to accurately calibrate the guns...which required modifying the wii sensor bar to increase it's functional distance.

the wiimote works well, and right now is my best option for light gun gaming...here's to hoping that the sonic guns will eventually be available and will work great with mame...until then, i'm off to play ghost squad

[JamIt]

the biggest problem with the wii, is that the sensor bar is too small to allow for accurate calibration on a big screen.  I use mine on a 102" screen, but i need to stand between 12 and 15 ft back in order to accurately calibrate the guns...which required modifying the wii sensor bar to increase it's functional distance.

Hey Severdhed, after calibration, do you still have to stand 12-15ft back to play?
Thanks,
JamIT

[severdhed]

yeah...you have to stand pretty much wherever you calibrated it from for it to be accurate.  the only reason i have to stand back that far is because my screen is so big....if your screen is smaller, you should not need to be back nearly as far

[DJ_Izumi]

I gotta be honest, as I've seen you mention a 102" screen multiple times.  I think you have no room to complain because you have a display that's 7+ feet and it's just VASTLY beyond the dimensions at which any home console hardware or software developer would ever considder.

It's like complaining that the garage on a house isn't built for a semi tractor.  They just arn't building things for that size and can't be expected to.

[severdhed]

i'm not complaining...i understand that i have an unusually large screen, and i don't expect nintendo to support that out of the box.  the problem is though, my friend has a 67" DLP Tv, and he has similar problems.  you cannot calibrate the wiimote accurately unless you move back pretty far, at which point the IR Tracking only works intermittently.   With big HDTVs being pretty popular right now, you would think that nintendo would have made the sensor bar longer in order to accommodate large TVs.  not everyone is playing video games on a 13" TV

[Shoegazer]

Actually, that's not unusually large at all.  I have a 90" screen and was considering putting in 100".  Several of my friends have screens that large or larger as well. 

Also, displays keep getting larger over time.  More houses today are being built with "media rooms" (traditionally the domain of only the most expensive mansions, now it's pretty commonplace).  This is especially the case given the proliferation of front projection units, where you can produce an image as large as you want provided you have the wallspace for it.  Console and hardware developers today MUST consider this as a factor - not doing so would be ignoring a growing chunk of the hardcore gaming community.

[RandyT]

Console and hardware developers today MUST consider this as a factor - not doing so would be ignoring a growing chunk of the hardcore gaming community.

Growing, but still very small in the larger scheme of things.  Console developers aways work within very tight confines of budget and available technology.  More often than not, they sell the early batch of consoles at a loss just so the console doesn't become obsolete in it's first year.  When you start talking peripheral developers, that cost becomes an even bigger concern, as more often than not, they need to pack a game and a gun together and sell both for a price that won't send the average consumer into sticker shock.

It would be nice if developers considered screens above 60", but due to the cost and space requirements of displays this size, they aren't owned by a large enough chunk of the population to be overly concerned about.  Of course, this is in the context of "gun games", which there aren't that many of in the first place.

RandyT

[ivwshane]

Is there any reason why someone couldn't use one of ultimarcs new u-hid g devices as a gun (basically you would treat it like a mouse)? Would calibration be an issue?

http://www.u-hid.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21&Itemid=24

[DJ_Izumi]

When you start talking peripheral developers, that cost becomes an even bigger concern, as more often than not, they need to pack a game and a gun together and sell both for a price that won't send the average consumer into sticker shock.

This also hurts the gun genre but is a necessary evil.  With the gun sold seperately, that works for ONE game, but when you release additional games for teh same gun you gotta dual release.  Some people have the gun already and some want the new game and the new gun.  Others might want a second gun to play with their friends.  These games are also DEPENDANT on the guns.  I have substantial PlayStation gun and game collection and I can honestly say, while these games support the dual shock you'd be returning the game if you were ever forced to play it that way.  Making someone play TimeCrisis or Point Blank with dual shock is just MEAN.

This is probably why Namco isn't taking any action with the Guncon 3 on the PS3 whereas everyone is porting their gungames to the Wii.

[1UP]

Is there any reason why someone couldn't use one of ultimarcs new u-hid g devices as a gun (basically you would treat it like a mouse)? Would calibration be an issue?

http://www.u-hid.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21&Itemid=24

The U-HID G is an accelerometer-based control, which is basically like using a PS3 Sixaxis controller.  There is a section of Heavenly Sword where you guide arrows around corners and such using the Sixaxis, but it takes a while to get used to it.  I doubt it could be calibrated accurately enough to always be pointing straight in front of a gun controller, it's just detecting relative motion, not absolute position.  A light gun knows exactly what pixel it's pointing at when you fire because it's looking at the video signal as the screen is being drawn.

[peterpepper]

any news about the OptiGun Lite from NanoTech ?

[Battlesmurf]

any news about the OptiGun Lite from NanoTech ?

Honestly- I'd love to know the answer to this too!All the information I can find is months and months old

[jtslade]

Anyone tried this Wii Gun, it has a numchuck built in. $14.99 and free AIrmail shipping is not bad, given that it INCLUDES the numchuck in the grip. As for dimensions it appears to be the close to the same size as a Beretta 92fs

The real thing:
Overall Length: 217 mm  ( 8.54 in )
Overall Height: 137 mm ( 5.39 in )



Made by Datel but rebranded and sold on Deal Extreme for less:

Dimensions: 8.66 in x 5.12 in x 1.61 in


http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26871



I like the idea of a three buttons on the gun. The bottom slap button can be used as the reload function.

[KissMyWookie]

Anyone tried this Wii Gun, it has a numchuck built in. $14.99 and free AIrmail shipping is not bad, given that it INCLUDES the numchuck in the grip. As for dimensions it appears to be the close to the same size as a Beretta 92fs

As discussed in other threads, the problem with using a Wiimote, is not the hardware but the currently available drivers. They don't allow for any calibration (which makes aiming innacurate) and you have to pair the Wiimote(s) with your computer everytime you boot up.

Until we get to use real arcade quality (robust) light guns with MAME, it is generally thought that GunCon2's are the best alternative.

Steve

PS: I bought two Namco GunCon2's for $12.50 including shipping (great deal - from an eBay seller that didn't sell at auction). They arrived yesterday and they too have a button on the bottom, where the magazine butt plate would be. They were made in 2000, so the Datel ones have borrowed the idea from them.
Now I just have to finish my Sync booster and combiner circuit and probably put it in a box with a small USB hub.

[peterpepper]

...so has somebody tested the nanotech opti-gun (or opti-gun lite) interface in the end? Has Dave of Nanotech disappeared?

[ant2]

hey, i'm using the aimtrak modules from ultimarc.
Mounted them in a guncon1 + guncon2 chassis.
The chassis cost me about £8 delivered. The aimtrak stuff about £70.

I've got a video of me using it at www.youtube.com/aletchet if anyone is interested. I think it's the best lightgun for the pc that i've used so far.

[gazz292]

That's alright if you are the only one to use the gun, but when you have a GF who is a good bit shorter than you, and neices that are half your height, then it's a royal pain in the A, having to re-calibrate for every user,

if there was a way for the aimtrack to use say 2 sensor bars or something that can remove the need to hold the gun in the same position all the time, then i'd buy it in a flash,

but i have a crt monitor, so would like to utilise the ability of it to work with an arcade gun properly, i.e. when it's held almost anywhere in relation to the screen, and at any angle or height.